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Samsung guilty of patent infringement, Apple awarded nearly $1.05B [u] - Page 10

post #361 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

So is that $1 billion total or $333 million x 3 for wilful infringement? Remember, wilfully infringing means the damages are tripled. So is Samsung paying $1 billion or will it be changed to $3 billion to reflect the wilful part?

It looks like it could be changed to over $3b if the judge decides to do this:

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-scores-huge-win-over-064804712.html

"A jury in San Jose, California awarded $1.049 billion to the US tech giant, according to court documents. But analysts said the damages could be tripled because jurors found Samsung "willfully" infringed on patents.

Judge Lucy Koh "now has the discretion to triple Apple's damages award, which is already a monstrous and unprecedented" sum."

Samsung releasing rejected evidence to the public during the trial might be one of the worst decisions they made.
post #362 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

It is so rare that justice is done that when it finally is my reaction is sheer delight.

 

Samsung and the Android folk are in a severe reality-distortion field where they are feel free to copy whatever and to somehow justify it to themselves as competition. They have brainwashed themselves with this nonsense and they cannot back out of it without their entire self-image collapsing.

I'm not a massive Apple fanboy - I actually own more Microsoft stuff than I do Apple - but I myself am full of utter glee that Apple has pretty much won this case! I knew Samsung was in trouble when I saw the Galaxy Tab 10.1 sitting next to a Black iPad 2 in Currys one day. I was with my dad picking out a new stereo for him and he pointed to the sammy and went "that new iPad looks nice!" - I went "oh yeah it is", I then had to double take when I realised he was pointing at the Samsung because at first glance from two feet away I thought it was an iPad 2 with a different wallpaper (it was open on the app drawer).

 

Seeing the pictures on the internet is one thing, seeing them side by side on full display in a shop was just scary.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #363 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntpreece View Post

I do respect that the theft of intellectual property is unlawful and wrong, but the sheer scale of the lawsuit and amount of money involved is not the way forward to aid future innovation.

That's a cop out. If Microsoft and Palm could come up with complete moble OS's without infringing, Samsung could have too. They flat out copied and directly intended to ride off the success of Apple by deliberately copying the exact look and feel of Apple's design.

Go read through the jury questions and their responses. They are very specific, not vague like you are insisting.

They were also called out for willfully infringing. You don't get WILLFUL from vagueness either.
Quote:
Not a forum to bash-the-iOS-fan-who-isn't-scared-to-openly-like-Android-too forum.

Stop trying to deflect. This has nothing to do with you, your likes, dislikes or even being adventurous (please!). Samsung blatantly copied and tried to leverage brand confusion to gain sales. That's illegal, they were called out for it by Apple and the jury agreed.

That all the sycophants and apologists are falling over themselves to give Samsung the slightest benefit of the doubt is hilarious. This was a SLAM DUNK verdict - there is NO ROOM for interpretation, weaseling or reading between the lines. Yet, here you are! On your second post, no less 1tongue.gif
post #364 of 409
Sweet, sweet justice. Finally it is "upheld" that Android is a blatant ripoff of iOS, not that there was any real doubt. This might however be the last real massive patent dispute in the US that has such global ramifications ~ Samsung has not been held culpable in most of outside the US.
post #365 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


That's a cop out. If Microsoft and Palm could come up with complete moble OS's without infringing, Samsung could have too. They flat out copied and directly intended to ride off the success of Apple by deliberately copying the exact look and feel of Apple's design.
 

 

First off, I really like Windows Phone, my wife has a lumia 800 and it's really different and very nice to use....but....

 

It has a slide to unlock, pinch-to-zoom in the pictures library and a bouncy effect when you scroll a list too far...

post #366 of 409
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post
Why you Americans are happy of this?

 

Anyone who has ever created anything from anywhere on the planet should be happy for this.

 

Samsung is not affecting you as consumers because you are 100% free of chose the product you want…

 

That's not how this works. Ignoring Samsung while letting them do whatever they want absolutely affects everyone else.

 

…I love Android because it provides me a freedom that IOS doesn't give me.

 

The freedom to install malware and have your phone behave like a Windows PC! Ah, apologies; just a little jab.

 

In the other hand, maybe some of you can say that you are happy because Apple is 100% american and that is good for your economy, but Google and Motorola are also American and you hate their products too.

 

So that probably isn't it, is it? It's a case of innovator vs. copyist, as with most of Apple's lawsuits. Apple creates and legally protects, others steal, Apple punishes.

 

…I don't like IOS because their antisharing policies and their lack of customization…

 

What do either of these things really mean? Do you want the native ability (because you can do it) to replace your OS' gorgeous icons with hideous junk?

 

If you reply to my message, please remember that i was friendly, so I as a fan of Android expect the same from you.

 

Why, when the rest of your ilk are so pathetically deluded and vitriolic? I don't mean to impugn what you've done here—in fact I appreciate it greatly over the latter.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #367 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by anonimo View Post
Why you Americans are happy of this?

 

Anyone who has ever created anything from anywhere on the planet should be happy for this.

 

Samsung is not affecting you as consumers because you are 100% free of chose the product you want…

 

That's not how this works. Ignoring Samsung while letting them do whatever they want absolutely affects everyone else.

 

…I love Android because it provides me a freedom that IOS doesn't give me.

 

The freedom to install malware and have your phone behave like a Windows PC! Ah, apologies; just a little jab.

 

In the other hand, maybe some of you can say that you are happy because Apple is 100% american and that is good for your economy, but Google and Motorola are also American and you hate their products too.

 

So that probably isn't it, is it? It's a case of innovator vs. copyist, as with most of Apple's lawsuits. Apple creates and legally protects, others steal, Apple punishes.

 

…I don't like IOS because their antisharing policies and their lack of customization…

 

What do either of these things really mean? Do you want the native ability (because you can do it) to replace your OS' gorgeous icons with hideous junk?

 

If you reply to my message, please remember that i was friendly, so I as a fan of Android expect the same from you.

 

Why, when the rest of your ilk are so pathetically deluded and vitriolic? I don't mean to impugn what you've done here—in fact I appreciate it greatly over the latter.


I dont think the lawsuit here is about ios and android. Its about how samsung phones look like iphone.

And i dont understand the freedom you are talking about. I use both android and iphone at the same time. I think there are things the iphone is good at and android better at. Samsung can always go the htc way. They are not being sued because they look like iphones.
post #368 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

I dont think the lawsuit here is about ios and android. Its about how samsung phones look like iphone.

That's not entirely true. Apple won a number of utility patent claims for things like bounce-back and pinch-to-zoom. Those are part of iOS and any of those patented technologies that are in Android could lead to a lawsuit against Google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

And i dont understand the freedom you are talking about. I use both android and iphone at the same time. I think there are things the iphone is good at and android better at. Samsung can always go the htc way. They are not being sued because they look like iphones.

Actually, they were. The largest amount of damages was for Samsung's infringement of Apple's design patents. So, to an extent, they were sued because their products looked like iPhones - at least in the details that were covered in the design patents.

It also appears that you're contradicting yourself. First you claim:
"I dont think the lawsuit here is about ios and android. Its about how samsung phones look like iphone."

Then you claim:
"They are not being sued because they look like iphones."

So which is it?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #369 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

To those of you wondering if this thread is likely to become the longest on AI: it isn't. Not by a long shot. The accolade of longest thread currently goes to the "Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007)" thread, which is 4651 posts long.

Oh yeah, sweet memories. Sony fanboys trolled me for saying that streaming will bury any winner of the media format war. 4 years later my Panasonic collects the dust, BR media migrates to public library and LG used only for streaming Netflix, amazon prime, Hulu and Pandora.
post #370 of 409

Congratulations Apple. Justice prevailed.

post #371 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

With many respect. Why you Americans are happy of this? Samsung is not affecting you as consumers because you are 100% free of chose the product you want, so if you don't like Samsung, just ignore it. Personally I like Samsung because it is the best manofacturer with the best hardware for Android, and I love Android because it provides me a freedom that IOS doesn't give me. In the other hand, maybe some of you can say that you are happy because Apple is 100% american and that is good for your economy, but Google and Motorola are also American and you hate their products too.
Personally and with a huge respect to the Apple community I can say that I dont like IOS because their antisharing policies and their lack of customization and for that reason I think Android is superior.
I also think that getting happy because of this is a like be happy of to have less choises to select.
If you reply to my message, please remember that i was friendly, so I as a fan of Android expect the same from you.
Regards...

Because to the casual observer, this is outright theft.  Nobody likes a thief or wants that thief to go unpunished.  I don't understand your point of view, which equates to, "thievery is okay as long as I personally benefit from it." (your benefit in this case is that it gives you the freedom and choice that you desire)  I hope this reply is respectful as you requested, I haven't called you any names, I just explained my point of view.

We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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post #372 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

With many respect. Why you Americans are happy of this? Samsung is not affecting you as consumers because you are 100% free of chose the product you want, so if you don't like Samsung, just ignore it. Personally I like Samsung because it is the best manofacturer with the best hardware for Android, and I love Android because it provides me a freedom that IOS doesn't give me. In the other hand, maybe some of you can say that you are happy because Apple is 100% american and that is good for your economy, but Google and Motorola are also American and you hate their products too.
Personally and with a huge respect to the Apple community I can say that I dont like IOS because their antisharing policies and their lack of customization and for that reason I think Android is superior.
I also think that getting happy because of this is a like be happy of to have less choises to select.
If you reply to my message, please remember that i was friendly, so I as a fan of Android expect the same from you.
Regards...

It affects all of us.Do you think it is OK for Apple to invest millions (billions?) of dollars in design, innovation, creativity and testing and then have someone copy their work? You think it's right that Samsung can then profit from Apple's investment? If companies cannot protect that investment they won't bother innovating. Then we all lose. I have no doubt Samsung innovate in many areas too but in this instance they took the short cut - theft.

post #373 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

I dont think the lawsuit here is about ios and android. Its about how samsung phones look like iphone.

That's not entirely true. Apple won a number of utility patent claims for things like bounce-back and pinch-to-zoom. Those are part of iOS and any of those patented technologies that are in Android could lead to a lawsuit against Google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

And i dont understand the freedom you are talking about. I use both android and iphone at the same time. I think there are things the iphone is good at and android better at. Samsung can always go the htc way. They are not being sued because they look like iphones.

Actually, they were. The largest amount of damages was for Samsung's infringement of Apple's design patents. So, to an extent, they were sued because their products looked like iPhones - at least in the details that were covered in the design patents.

It also appears that you're contradicting yourself. First you claim:
"I dont think the lawsuit here is about ios and android. Its about how samsung phones look like iphone."

Then you claim:
"They are not being sued because they look like iphones."

So which is it?

I should clarify that htc is not being sued for how it looks physically. They are being sued because of the pinch and zoom you are talking about.

As for samsung, i stand corrected.
post #374 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

I'm not a massive Apple fanboy - I actually own more Microsoft stuff than I do Apple - but I myself am full of utter glee that Apple has pretty much won this case! I knew Samsung was in trouble when I saw the Galaxy Tab 10.1 sitting next to a Black iPad 2 in Currys one day. I was with my dad picking out a new stereo for him and he pointed to the sammy and went "that new iPad looks nice!" - I went "oh yeah it is", I then had to double take when I realised he was pointing at the Samsung because at first glance from two feet away I thought it was an iPad 2 with a different wallpaper (it was open on the app drawer).

Seeing the pictures on the internet is one thing, seeing them side by side on full display in a shop was just scary.

Someone's not paying attention. Apple didn't win the part about the Galaxy Tab.
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #375 of 409

Apple have won the first court battle, great. The question now comes, can they win the PR battle? The rubbish about Apple trying to 'own rectangles with round corners' is STILL being spouted, post verdict, by Samsung. The trouble is, if you say things enough times people will believe it. Ultimately 1$B may be very small compensation for a shift in public perception. Samsung have proved they like to 'fight dirty'.

post #376 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Ok, I'll be the arbitrator between you two and settle this.

 

Yes, he was technically wrong in saying that Samsung didn't win a single point. It won a couple of points and Apple won like 127. Now that that's settled, we can all move on. lol.gif

But, they didn't win any money.

 

 


Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees

 

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Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees

 

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post #377 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brother 84 View Post

Apple have won the first court battle, great. The question now comes, can they win the PR battle? The rubbish about Apple trying to 'own rectangles with round corners' is STILL being spouted, post verdict, by Samsung. The trouble is, if you say things enough times people will believe it. Ultimately 1$B may be very small compensation for a shift in public perception. Samsung have proved they like to 'fight dirty'.

Again the whole "rectangle with rounded corners" was mostly directed at the iPad vs Galaxy Tab 10.1. Apple didn't win that part so that point is pretty much moot now.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #378 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

With many respect. Why you Americans are happy of this? Samsung is not affecting you as consumers because you are 100% free of chose the product you want, so if you don't like Samsung, just ignore it. Personally I like Samsung because it is the best manofacturer with the best hardware for Android, and I love Android because it provides me a freedom that IOS doesn't give me. In the other hand, maybe some of you can say that you are happy because Apple is 100% american and that is good for your economy, but Google and Motorola are also American and you hate their products too.
Personally and with a huge respect to the Apple community I can say that I dont like IOS because their antisharing policies and their lack of customization and for that reason I think Android is superior.
I also think that getting happy because of this is a like be happy of to have less choises to select.
If you reply to my message, please remember that i was friendly, so I as a fan of Android expect the same from you.
Regards...

 

Whether we like or dislike a company largely has nothing to do with country of origin. What the companies do with respect to each other and to their customers matters more.

 

You're actually going to have more choices because Samsung will have to go back to the drawing board and design something original, instead of slavishly copying Apple. If you really think copying Apple equals "more choice" then would you (or someone else) please explain that?


Edited by Suddenly Newton - 8/25/12 at 5:20pm

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post #379 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

 

I'll see your static image, and raise you a gif:

 

post #380 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Again the whole "rectangle with rounded corners" was mostly directed at the iPad vs Galaxy Tab 10.1. Apple didn't win that part so that point is pretty much moot now.

 

Unfortunately, while many of us on this forum may know the difference, many Android-based smartphone proponents are reiterating Samsung's talking points as often as possible.
 
I applaud the verdict and the long fought battle Apple has won but fear Samsung may win the war as their mindless minions support their cause without understanding the cause and effect of events on a grand scale.
 
Samsung appeared to be unconcerned with the trial and far more concerned about publicity.  Samsung is clearly playing a different game but I can't discern which game they are playing.  The court of public opinion may ultimately be far more important than federal court.
 
 

Edited by MacBook Pro - 8/25/12 at 4:28pm
post #381 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

First off, I really like Windows Phone, my wife has a lumia 800 and it's really different and very nice to use....but....

It has a slide to unlock, pinch-to-zoom in the pictures library and a bouncy effect when you scroll a list too far...

Apple and MS have cross-patent deal which, to my understanding, enables them to use each others ideas, as long as there is no blatant cloning involved.

To my understanding, that should mean that, since iOS and WP OS have quite different concept, look and feel, using specific elements is acceptable. If and what elements Apple is using from MS portfolio, I wouldn't know.
post #382 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrs View Post

[1] Do you care to give examples of your statement [one in bold face]? Koreans in particular sees Americans as their saviors during the Korean War. 

 

[2] The US regimes which had catered and pampered many iron fist dictators in the past, the likes of Saddam Hussein, Pinochet, Suharto, Marcos, Shah Iran, and others, had also produced Park Chung Hee.

 

[3] Present day Koreans are among the most highly educated populace in the world. Imagine this:

 

[4] It takes 40 years for the Japanese to rebuild itself after being demolished by the great war and become one of the leading countries in the world at the forefront of industry and technology. But, it takes South Korea even less time than the Japanese to raise itself from the ashes of Korean War, from one of the poorest countries in the world in the late 1950's, to become an industrial powerhouse. South Korean currently ranks as the 12th largest economy in the world. For all of these progresses, South Koreans. old and young, feel that they are deeply indebted to the US. 

 

 

 

May I?

 

Some of your above comments regarding Koreans' attitudes to the west, and in particular the US, might have had a lot more relevance in 1999. But today (in fact, since the Anton Ohno era around 2000) a new generation has assumed the mainstream of thought in Korea, a generation raised in comparative luxury on the sweat of their parents and grandparents who lived through hard times and the war. In general it's the older Koreans who remember the sacrifices of the United Nations forces and the western massive industrial/scientific/economic aid, while many of the younger generation are flag-waving xenophobes (see point 4 below).

 

[1] Do you really think Korea can hide the ongoing massive demonstrations against the US? Anyone, just google "anti-US demonstrations + Korea" and you'll see and read about the scale of these, ripping up huge American flags and all—these demonstrations attract hundreds of thousands of people if not more. There is in fact a massive popular movement (not just 'fringe groups') to end the American military alliance, you can google that too. The older generation sometimes counter demonstrate, but their numbers are significantly smaller and they're dying off. 

 

[2] True, I'm ashamed to say. 

 

[3] Sorry, that's a myth created by the Korean press. Korean schools and universities are well known to artificially inflate grades so that they look better compared to a) each other and b) foreigners. It's not uncommon for poor students to be bumped ahead and for entire schools to have a zero-fail rate even if they have 3000 students or more (which in the west is impossible). In addition, Korea has not a single top 50 university in the world rankings (the much better educated Americans, Europeans, Canadians, Australians and Japanese do much better) http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html. What Korea does have is the hagwan system of cram schools where parents send their kids to learn rote recitation of facts and established formulae any fool can look up in a book. If you call that education I'd call that pretty sad. This lack of originality in education is evident in Korea's dismal showing in science and medicine Nobels (they have exactly none) and Maths prizes like the Fields medal (again, Korea has never won a single one), possibly making them the only OECD nation not to make the cut. Ever. Again, Korea's 'great education' system is a total myth, it's a Confucian system built on regurgitating the innovations of others (and in science, that usually means foreigners). Hence it's easy to see why CEOs at Samsung have no problem with blatantly ripping off foreign companies - they've been trained to do it since they were young. If that sounds hard it's only because it's true. Are some Koreans very smart? Sure, just like some people from any country. But their education system sucks, which is why Korean parents will do almost anything to get their kids into western universities.

 

[4] This is massive stretch of the facts, the "Miracle of the Han' as Koreas are happy to tell gullible foreigners who visit their country, was in fact only possible at all because of American, European, and Japanese technology transfers, foreign expertise, industrial espionage (not to mention war reparations and foreign aid money, POSCO being a case in point) and cold war politics which fostered an American reluctance to prosecute Korean patent infringement. Do some older Koreans recognize this? Yes. But many of the younger generation have been brainwashed to believe Koreans actually did this on their own because of their 'superior education' (see point 3, above).

post #383 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar View Post

May I?

 

Some of your above comments regarding Koreans' attitudes to the west, and in particular the US, might have had a lot more relevance in 1999. But today (in fact, since the Anton Ohno era around 2000) a new generation has assumed the mainstream of thought in Korea, a generation raised in comparative luxury on the sweat of their parents and grandparents who lived through hard times and the war. In general it's the older Koreans who remember the sacrifices of the United Nations forces and the western massive industrial/scientific/economic aid, while many of the younger generation are flag-waving xenophobes (see point 4 below).

 

[1] Do you really think Korea can hide the ongoing massive demonstrations against the US? Anyone, just google "anti-US demonstrations + Korea" and you'll see and read about the scale of these, ripping up huge American flags and all—these demonstrations attract hundreds of thousands of people if not more. There is in fact a massive popular movement (not just 'fringe groups') to end the American military alliance, you can google that too. The older generation sometimes counter demonstrate, but their numbers are significantly smaller and they're dying off. 

 

[2] True, I'm ashamed to say. 

 

[3] Sorry, that's a myth created by the Korean press. Korean schools and universities are well known to artificially inflate grades so that they look better compared to a) each other and b) foreigners. It's not uncommon for poor students to be bumped ahead and for entire schools to have a zero-fail rate even if they have 3000 students or more (which in the west is impossible). In addition, Korea has not a single top 50 university in the world rankings (the much better educated Americans, Europeans, Canadians, Australians and Japanese do much better) http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html. What Korea does have is the hagwan system of cram schools where parents send their kids to learn rote recitation of facts and established formulae any fool can look up in a book. If you call that education I'd call that pretty sad. This lack of originality in education is evident in Korea's dismal showing in science and medicine Nobels (they have exactly none) and Maths prizes like the Fields medal (again, Korea has never won a single one), possibly making them the only OECD nation not to make the cut. Ever. Again, Korea's 'great education' system is a total myth, it's a Confucian system built on regurgitating the innovations of others (and in science, that usually means foreigners). Hence it's easy to see why CEOs at Samsung have no problem with blatantly ripping off foreign companies - they've been trained to do it since they were young. If that sounds hard it's only because it's true. Are some Koreans very smart? Sure, just like some people from any country. But their education system sucks, which is why Korean parents will do almost anything to get their kids into western universities.

 

[4] This is massive stretch of the facts, the "Miracle of the Han' as Koreas are happy to tell gullible foreigners who visit their country, was in fact only possible at all because of American, European, and Japanese technology transfers, foreign expertise, industrial espionage (not to mention war reparations and foreign aid money, POSCO being a case in point) and cold war politics which fostered an American reluctance to prosecute Korean patent infringement. Do some older Koreans recognize this? Yes. But many of the younger generation have been brainwashed to believe Koreans actually did this on their own because of their 'superior education' (see point 3, above).

 

There's nothing wrong with what Korean companies like Samsung have done.  Historically, the US copied the industrial revolution from England.  And Europe for centuries copied inventions from Asia.  It's ridiculous to think that east asian countries should spend money on R&D to reinvent things.  Plus, many of these technology transfers mentioned above were bought and paid for.  Western compannies continue to make a lot of money from these royalty payments.

 

As for this case, it seems to me that Samsung paid a small price to become what it is now the second biggest smart phone maker so I don't know why people are being so jubillent here.  Samsung hasn't gone away, and they will continue to make huge profits. 

post #384 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Oh, this is just the beginning!

Bleh! I probably won't care as much when the new Mac mini and iMac come out but I want new news on Apple products not lawsuits. Good thing Intel always has positive stuff on their future plans.
post #385 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenadams View Post

 

There's nothing wrong with what Korean companies like Samsung have done.  

 

 

This is a joke right? Nothing legally wrong? Well the court has given you the answer on that. Nothing morally wrong? I hope someone comes to your house and steals everything in it and when you complain to the police they show you what you've written here.

 

People that don't get that what Samsung did was wrong have something seriously wrong with their brains. And Samsung did it to a company that trusted them and was partnering with them. A douchebag company who have only douchebag apologists. I am so glad that someone passed them the note that said "hey, this was wrong."

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post #386 of 409

I can see why this thread is already petering out before 400 posts. The Android tech elite are all over on other sites getting their aggression out by telling Apple fans to "stop trolling" on those sites. Ars Technica, for example, already has over 700 posts on this topic.

 

I guess it's human nature to stick to communities that agree and support your point of view--that's why it's called a community. So when the going gets tough for their hero Samsung, the trolls do leave AI and go lean on each other over for emotional support on Android-friendly forums.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #387 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I can see why this thread is already petering out before 400 posts. The Android tech elite are all over on other sites getting their aggression out by telling Apple fans to "stop trolling" on those sites. Ars Technica, for example, already has over 700 posts on this topic.

I guess it's human nature to stick to communities that agree and support your point of view--that's why it's called a community. So when the going gets tough for their hero Samsung, the trolls do leave AI and go lean on each other over for emotional support on Android-friendly forums.

It's interesting that all those that claimed Apple can't win have been so quite. I'd like to think they are gouging on humble pie but I don't think sociopaths can feel humility.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #388 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenadams View Post

 

There's nothing wrong with what Korean companies like Samsung have done.  Historically, the US copied the industrial revolution from England.  And Europe for centuries copied inventions from Asia.  It's ridiculous to think that east asian countries should spend money on R&D to reinvent things.

 

You failed to point that historically, the US copied the ENGLISH LANGUAGE from England. It's ridiculous to think that the US would spend money on R&D to reinvent things.

 

What you're doing is called a false analogy. The scary thing is: smart people use it as a rhetorical device to win arguments (i.e., trolling), and dumb people use it because they actually believe it. Do you believe what you posted or not?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #389 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's interesting that all those that claimed Apple can't win have been so quite. I'd like to think they are gouging on humble pie but I don't think sociopaths can feel humility.

 

Well I only perused the other forum (a random sample was sufficient because most threads are high repetitious in their arguments), but I did see someone post "but the jury has shown what you're saying is not true" and the response was "stop trolling here." lol.gif Welcome to bizarro-world.

 

Most remarks were about how stupid or rushed the jury was. Internet trolls: not the finest members of our species.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #390 of 409
Quote:
Radar View Post

Some of your above comments regarding Koreans' attitudes to the west, and in particular the US, might have had a lot more relevance in 1999. But today (in fact, since the Anton Ohno era around 2000) a new generation has assumed the mainstream of thought in Korea, a generation raised in comparative luxury on the sweat of their parents and grandparents who lived through hard times and the war. In general it's the older Koreans who remember the sacrifices of the United Nations forces and the western massive industrial/scientific/economic aid, while many of the younger generation are flag-waving xenophobes (see point 4 below).

 

I think the youth usually has one of those "umph" better known as idealism and usually coupled with nationalism. Nevertheless, these flag waving youth can easily blame the west for many things they considered as injustice. The one particular example was the Asian Currency Crisis of the late 1990's. When the IMF stepped in to remedy the dangerous Asian Economic Contagion. This new caretaker suddenly dictated what had to be done, what austerity measures and what not, before these suddenly bankrupt nations could get their aids from IMF. The way IMF conducted its business during this period of chaos in Eastern Asia was just horrid as if it had never been taught manners. To many Asian youths, including South Koreans, the way the IMF dictated their government was deplorable. This views were held quite widespread since many youths also put the blame on the West for propping up tyrant after tyrant for years. The military backed governments in South Korea, the Philippines and Indonesia could never be flourishing had it not for the US blessing. And, during this Economic crisis of 1990's, the common people would have to bear the brunt again for yet more mistakes in US foreign policy. Again, this view is rather simplistic, but it is good enough for the youth to put the blame squarely on the US shoulders. This was probably the flash point which seems to support your opinion with regard to South Korean youth's anger towards the US. I don't think this view is quite pervasive in today's South Korea, especially since South Korea managed to recover economically within just six years, quite swiftly considering how serious the crisis was. Their deep hatred towards the Japanese, however, continues to linger even to this day. 

 

 

Quote:
Radar View Post

...In addition, Korea has not a single top 50 university in the world rankings (the much better educated Americans, Europeans, Canadians, Australians and Japanese do much better) http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html. What Korea does have is the hagwan system of cram schools where parents send their kids to learn rote recitation of facts and established formulae any fool can look up in a book. If you call that education I'd call that pretty sad. This lack of originality in education is evident in Korea's dismal showing in science and medicine Nobels (they have exactly none) and Maths prizes like the Fields medal (again, Korea has never won a single one), possibly making them the only OECD nation not to make the cut. Ever. Again, Korea's 'great education' system is a total myth, it's a Confucian system built on regurgitating the innovations of others (and in science, that usually means foreigners). Hence it's easy to see why CEOs at Samsung have no problem with blatantly ripping off foreign companies - they've been trained to do it since they were young. If that sounds hard it's only because it's true. Are some Koreans very smart? Sure, just like some people from any country. But their education system sucks, which is why Korean parents will do almost anything to get their kids into western universities.

 

Your ranking cut-off system is rather curious if not ingenious. If you go with just the top 50, I can say that you are right since most universities in the top 50 were from the West, If you take MIT, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Oxford, Stanford, University of Michigan, University of California Berkeley, University of Texas Austin, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, Caltech, Cambridge, University of Chicago, University of Pennsylvania, University of Carolina at Chapel Hill, Georgia Tech, Imperial College, UCLA, University of Washington, Cornell, University of Minnesota at Twin Cities, University of Wisconsin, Carnegie Mellon, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, McGill and University of Toronto, you will have very few spots left for your top 50. And, I actually had memorized these good schools from eons ago, and voila...! they are still in the top 50 even now, at least in some surveys. They are in the top 50 due to their reputations, and I think it's quite difficult to be kicked out of this top 50 unless you are doing something horribly wrong. You ought to see the top 200 to be able to see a better picture. And. once you do that, you will see four [4] South Korean universities start to show up on a radar: Seoul National University, Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Technology, Pohang University of Science and Technology and Yonsei University. That is quite respectable considering there are gazillions universities out there in the wild.

 

The major reason why Korean parents send their kids overseas is because their kids failed the entrance exam for gaining entry to reputable Korean universities, not to mention the tricks used by some rich parents to delay the obvious - the mandatory military service - which usually robs two years out of their children's life after high school. The key word here is "rich". If you are one of those rich parents, you can afford to send your kids overseas. Otherwise, you will have to make do with Korean educational system which is not as bad as you make it to be. The thing is when you start attending college, it is up to you what you want to get out of it. You can't depend too much on the system or the professors. It is essentially true wherever you go to school, even in the States. You have heard it before about undergrad classes being taught by TA's who can barely teach effectively. Worse still, in many reputable engineering schools, the TA's assigned for teaching these preliminary and introductory engineering or science classes can barely speak English at all. The upper division classes and Grad schools are where the US [and the West] educational system excel with top notch facilities and professors.

 

 

Quote:
Radar View Post

......was in fact only possible at all because of American, European, and Japanese technology transfers, foreign expertise, industrial espionage (not to mention war reparations and foreign aid money, POSCO being a case in point) and cold war politics which fostered an American reluctance to prosecute Korean patent infringement. Do some older Koreans recognize this? Yes. But many of the younger generation have been brainwashed to believe Koreans actually did this on their own because of their 'superior education' (see point 3, above).

 

If you are saying this, this was also being done by the Japanese during its rebuilding period, Many Japanese had been caught for industrial espionage, and the last embarrasment was when a Japanese company Hitachi got caught in the early 1980's of having IBM's "Adirondack Workbook" in its possession. IBM had been the target of industrial espionage far too many times by not only Japanese entities but also others. Small wonder, IBM was and still is the warehouse of innovations and patents. I mentioned how South Korea had rebuild their economies faster than the Japanese without having to explain how South Korea had done it because it should be fairly obvious anyway. You said " American, European, and Japanese technology transfers, foreign expertise, industrial espionage (not to mention war reparations and foreign aid money....) as the reasoning behind South Korea's economic miracle. I don't dispute that at all, but you have to remember there are quite a few countries around the world with similar opportunities, like the Philippines and Indonesia for example, but yet these countries have failed to rebuild and develop their economies as swiftly as South Korea had done. So, there has to be something else at work here beyond the reasoning you mentioned above. One thing I have noticed about South Koreans. They are inherently very goal oriented, focused and hard workers, perfect workaholics poster boys. I haven't seen people dedicated so much to their works than the South Koreans. Perhaps, these traits are the ones that set them apart from their regional peers.

 

The fact that a Korean based company named Samsung has been found guilty of making a serious amount of money by ape'ing some Apple products shouldn't be overgeneralized to something it is not. For sure, it is not a verdict against Korean people. They are a very decent people, and I had the opportunity to get to know many of them. They are no different than Americans or Canadians. And of course, by the same token, it is not fair to bash and ridicule all Americans based only on actions by the likes of AIG, Arthur Andersen, Enron, Lehman Brothers or even an individual like Bernard Madoff. 

 


Edited by mcrs - 8/26/12 at 11:08pm
post #391 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

ISo when the going gets tough for their hero Samsung...

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #392 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well I only perused the other forum

I think that peruse doesn't mean what you think it means. Just a heads-up for you for the future and anyone else reading this who makes this common mistake.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #393 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


I think that peruse doesn't mean what you think it means. Just a heads-up for you for the future and anyone else reading this who makes this common mistake.

 

Thanks, but link you sent says:

 

 

peruse  (pəˈruːz) 
 
— vb
1. to read or examine with care; study
2. to browse or read through in a leisurely way

 

So it has a double meaning. And apparently a contradictory one at that. lol.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #394 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

 

So Richard Pryor can sing? (wink, because smileys are broken)

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #395 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

You failed to point that historically, the US copied the ENGLISH LANGUAGE from England. It's ridiculous to think that the US would spend money on R&D to reinvent things.

 

What you're doing is called a false analogy. The scary thing is: smart people use it as a rhetorical device to win arguments (i.e., trolling), and dumb people use it because they actually believe it. Do you believe what you posted or not?

When you put it like that, anthropology seems rather simple.

post #396 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I think that peruse doesn't mean what you think it means. Just a heads-up for you for the future and anyone else reading this who makes this common mistake.

Thanks, but link you sent says:

peruse (pəˈruːz)

— vb
1. to read or examine with care; study
2. to browse or read through in a leisurely way

So it has a double meaning. And apparently a contradictory one at that. lol.gif

Well, the first thing the link I posted says is:

1. to read through with thoroughness or care: to peruse a report.
2. to read.
3. to survey or examine in detail.

I hadn't scrolled down to see the definition from Collins (which is what you posted). The Collins definition is wrong; it is merely attempting to formalise the recent misinterpretation and misuse of the word. This is clearly stupid as the misinterpretation/misuse gives the word the exact opposite meaning of what it actually means.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #397 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

 Why you Americans are happy of this? Samsung is not affecting you as consumers because you are 100% free of chose the product you want, so if you don't like Samsung, just ignore it. ...

If you reply to my message, please remember that i was friendly, so I as a fan of Android expect the same from you.
Regards...

Also with respect, I think you missed the entire point of the Apple vs. Samsung trial. It was not about consumer choice at all really, it was about the survival of western companies and the theft of intellectual property. Samsung has been stealing foreign innovations/inventions for years, which has cost these American companies and individuals billions of dollars. So surely you can see why most Americans are happy to see Samsung being told they must stop stealing.

 

Put it this way...would you be happy if some Chinese company started saying that kimchee was in fact a Chinese invention, and that company then started to produce it so it tasted and looked exactly like the traditional Korean kimchee, but produced it much cheaper in China, and that destroyed the Korean kimchee industry? And then the Chinese company said "Hey, stop whining Koreans, you can't patent a cabbage!" Probably not. It's a little more complex and much more devious than that of course, but you get the idea. It's about jobs and money, yes, but equally about protecting one's inventions and the culture of innovation.

 

This is not a loss for Samsung but a win for Korean people who may one day be able to say that this ruling, for the first time, finally spurred true technological innovation in their country (and maybe even get them their first science Nobel prize a decade or two from now, who knows?). Good luck!

post #398 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanMac View Post

Looks like the jury ruled for Samsung on the iPad infringement claim.
I guess that makes it something like:

Apple-15  Samsung-1

 

has anyone here been following the case closely enough to opine why the iPad patents weren't protected?

post #399 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenadams View Post

 

There's nothing wrong with what Korean companies like Samsung have done.  Historically, the US copied the industrial revolution from England.  And Europe for centuries copied inventions from Asia.  It's ridiculous to think that east asian countries should spend money on R&D to reinvent things.  Plus, many of these technology transfers mentioned above were bought and paid for.  Western compannies continue to make a lot of money from these royalty payments.

 

As for this case, it seems to me that Samsung paid a small price to become what it is now the second biggest smart phone maker so I don't know why people are being so jubillent here.  Samsung hasn't gone away, and they will continue to make huge profits. 

So if you spent half your life writing a great book or inventing a machine that makes you money or provides energy for free, you wouldn't mind if I just "reinvent" it and put you and your family out on the street? I'm sure your wife would be very happy about that. Your kids too. Can I have some of what you're drinking, dude?

 

By which bizarre logic is it ridiculous to think east asian (or any other) countries should NOT spend money on their own R&D? Huh? How in the hell will they ever learn to stand on their own two feet if all they can do is try to ape foreigners? As for tech transfer agreements many more weren't paid for (as these come under industrial espionage and outright theft)—as yesterdays ruling against Samsung clearly shows. 

 

Westerners stealing technology from Korea...uh, what exactly would that be, the recipe for dog meat soup? And as for Europeans copying the "R&D" in a medieval Chinese plow, it simply does not equate to the R&D involved in a Boeing 747 or Apple iPhone. The Chinese themselves got ceramics (among many other things) only after they had already been in use in Europe for millennia. They prefer to forget that Europeans like the Greeks and Romans, and some Africans also, had engineering and mathematics far superior to anything in China at the time. Chew on this if you will: Sure, China had its share of achievements in the ancient world. But its innovations essentially stopped at the level of technology found in the European middle ages, which is exactly where they'd be today if not for centuries of western scientific development. As for the US copying the industrial revolution from England (and I hope you're not so much of an English nationalist to exclude western Europe here).... I rank them pretty much equal in terms of the great achievements which brought us the modern world...but exactly where do you think most Americans came from? LOL. 

 

Anyway, I'm happy for Apple today, they finally put these Samsung frauds in their place. Watch out Samedung, the precedent is set and you just lost a billion dollars to Apple's legal team while becoming a total joke in the eyes of the world. 

 

Samsung. Stole. And. Must. Pay. Suck. It. Up.

post #400 of 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post

has anyone here been following the case closely enough to opine why the iPad patents weren't protected?

 

I believe it has to do with the fact that the jury didn't find Samsung had violated the iPad's trade-dress.

 

I followed the trial reasonably closely and I have to admit that I was never really convinced that Samsung copied the iPad's trade-dress.  I was absolutely convinced that Samsung had copied the iPhone's trade-dress, however.

 

I also feel that the core of Samsung's defense strategy was more like a bunch of whining than a real defense.  And that's the subject of my latest blog post:

 

http://markshangout.com/blog/2012/8/26/apple-shines-samsung-whines.html

 

Mark

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