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Jurors knew Samsung was guilty after first day of deliberations, wanted to send message with verdict - Page 5

post #161 of 196

As far as I'm concerned, the trial was over after the Samsung before and after photo.  In addition to being guilty, they made themselves look like morons.  Most people caught in a lie will make themselves look like idiots trying to admonish their guilt.

post #162 of 196

I guess this means that Samsung won't be able to copy the butt ugly iPhone 5 now...

Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #163 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post

The problem I feel is that the Asian culture does not have the right tools to create world design. Maybe it's something about western culture having such depth and breadth that makes our manufactures world beaters.
Just look at the car industry, have you ever seen a truly original gorgeous design come out of any of the Asian manufactures? Maybe one or two, but the rest seem to borrow most of the design cues from western companies.

American design

 

Asian design

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post #164 of 196
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
I guess this means that Samsung won't be able to copy the butt ugly iPhone 5 now...

 

This is "butt ugly"?

 

 

It's this, but with a second black bar. 

post #165 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

It wasn't marketed as a "brick," but designers pretty universally adopted that term as the name for that particular phone form factor.

 

In France we call that kind of phone a "phone booth".

post #166 of 196

Samsung is down 6% at KOSPI open in Seoul Monday morning.

 

That's a US$11B drop in their market cap. (As I said before, the jury ruling pales in comparison.)

 

Serves them right.

post #167 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Ahh... but you are limiting the playing field and karma to the existing world as we know it.

 

It was not too long ago when Microsoft ruled the roost in computer OS, productivity apps, and had a large success in mobile phones.  I remember:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U

 

AI won't accept the video link.

 

 

 

The mobile world changed in 2007.  The PC world changed in 2010.  When/what will be the next world change?

 

More succinctly, to what advantage is the marketing and manufacturing capability for buggy whips -- when the world is buying automobile cranks?  Sammy has gained the pre-eminant position for today's buggy whips -- but lack the infrastructure for tomorrow's automobile cranks.

 

 

If I were to guess (SWAG, really), I would say the next world change is social* experience sharing in real-time or near real-time.  I can't think of a good name for it, can't really describe it... but, like porn, I'll know it when I see it.  

 

* I did not highlight "social" although I believe it will be the driving  factor for consumers -- and that, in turn, will drive acceptance in enterprise for additional, non-social uses.

 

Watching TV in the family room is so passé -- as are posting to blogs or forums like AI; chatting or texting...

 

 

Come to think of it, TV as a one-to-many device is passé -- a tablet as a many-to-many device is a big part of experience sharing in real-time or near real-time.  And, the tablet, as a personal TV, will largely cause the large screen to become a less-used niche product.

 

 

Edit:  And tablets. with advanced cell radios, will break down the voice/messaging/data price structure of the telcos/cablecos -- it's all data, all the time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can be sure that what Apple tries to invent next will be a new market/device concept created by others but in which the full potential is not realized.  I don't think it's TV. Apple TV is just uniting the Apple content ecosystem while not leaving them out of the living room.  It may have been meant to be more, and there may still be experimentation, but they have not cracked the nut yet.  

 

But where?

 

I'll tell you where it's not.  All the things that sustain the mobile devices and are obvious extensions.  Payment systems, advances in miniature cameras for still photos and video, accessories linked to apps for control like NEST, useful and cost effective pens for mobile input, etc.  

 

Then where to look?  Usually it is something already around that is not perfected.  One example is the cloud which is in it's infancy.  What's the gap?  Wireless bandwidth.  We can be sure that what Apple tries to invent next will be a new market/device concept created by others but in which the full potential is not realized.  I don't think it's TV. Apple TV is just uniting the Apple content ecosystem while not leaving them out of the living room.  It may have been meant to be more, and there may still be experimentation, but they have not cracked the nut yet.  

 

But where?

 

I'll tell you where it's not.  All the things that sustain the mobile devices and are obvious extensions.  Payment systems, advances in miniature cameras for still photos and video, accessories linked to apps for control like NEST, useful and cost effective pens for mobile input, etc.  

 

Then where to look?  Usually it is something already around that is not perfected.  One example is the cloud which is in it's infancy.  What's the gap?  Wireless bandwidth.  How many of you with large photo or video collections can upload or download on the fly?  At my pitiful upload speeds I cannot back up to the cloud my 500 GB of photos.  Now, don't expect Apple to invent the impressive technology required to increase wireless bandwidth.  They will just use it.  We are years off.  So that's just one example.  

 

Just watch carefully for new categories of capability - devices or network oriented - and you can be sure Apple is watching it.  It will be linked to daily life as it exists now in a freeing kind of way.

post #168 of 196
post #169 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondafence View Post

It's dangerous territory to say . . . blah blah . . .  but shudder to think what this phone would have cost in the absence of direct competition.

Just as we all shuddered at how Apple's iPods became so very expensive when others were prevented from duplicating Apple's innovations in that space.

Oh wait, iPods were way nicer, and a far better value than the alternative players "in the absence of direct competition" and the sky didn't fall either.

post #170 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

Hahaha..... I don't understand how you Apple fans still using an Iphone. Why dont you open your eyes and at least check comparations on youtube. Here it is one that you should see:
Part 1: http://youtu.be/NMiY1kSTHZw
Part 2: http://youtu.be/Ayx4XsBaJBI
Part 3: http://youtu.be/fsGQ_xts_Gw
Part 4: http://youtu.be/jlPKVWv1WxU
Part 5: http://youtu.be/q5A4k1bDV0s

 

Thanks for the links.  I too think Apple users should see this and insist Apple to copy (I mean innovate).

post #171 of 196

Is that "Asian deign?"

Pretty much every asian automotive company has a major design studio in Detroit or California. Nissan has had big design studios in the US for over 30 years! They have studios in England and China too (but I bet there are creative people from all over the world in all of their studios.)

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DESIGN/BASE/

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

Asian design

post #172 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Just as we all shuddered at how Apple's iPods became so very expensive when others were prevented from duplicating Apple's innovations in that space.
Oh wait, iPods were way nicer, and a far better value than the alternative players "in the absence of direct competition" and the sky didn't fall either.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but that's not really a good comparison. MP3 players are/were a luxury item, not needed by anyone. Also, its competitors were CD players and radios. So iPods were only a monopoly in a subsection of the portable music market. A large subsection admittedly, but still alternatives.

Smartphones on the other hand are quickly becoming a necessity, especially in the business world, in large part to the iPhone and Crackberry.

A better argument to ondafence's point would be MS Windows's virtual monopoly in the desktop market. Still didn't drive costs for WinXP through the roof nor make the "MS tax" unreasonable.

Of course only time will tell how the smartphone market shakes out. We've already seen the rise and fall of its first comers RIM & WinMo (Palm too I guess). A land of IOS and Android may be the stabilization point. Or Win8 could conqu... haha couldn't say that with a straight face.

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They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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post #173 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Is that "Asian deign?"
Pretty much every asian automotive company has a major design studio in Detroit or California. Nissan has had big design studios in the US for over 30 years! They have studios in England and China too (but I bet there are creative people from all over the world in all of their studios.)

What is "American" design anyways? Sure Ford et al are based in the US but their who's on the design team? I'm sure there are a plethora of ethnicities on the team, probably even an Asian or 2. Same goes for Apple's design team.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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post #174 of 196

Before the iPhone came out smart phones "are/were a luxury item too."

Apple made iPods ubiquitous and a "necessity" just as they have smart phones.

Frankly though, neither device was or is a necessity, or a luxury.

Mobilizing computing and communication devices has proven very useful though.

post #175 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark View Post


What is "American" design anyways? Sure Ford et al are based in the US but their who's on the design team? I'm sure there are a plethora of ethnicities on the team, probably even an Asian or 2. Same goes for Apple's design team.

Exactly my point.

Although it is worth noting the leading design schools are in the US and Europe (with faculty and students from around the world.)

It's also worth noting that most designers end up staying in the country where they finish their design education.


Edited by DESuserIGN - 8/26/12 at 7:45pm
post #176 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark View Post

What is "American" design anyways? Sure Ford et al are based in the US but their who's on the design team? I'm sure there are a plethora of ethnicities on the team, probably even an Asian or 2. Same goes for Apple's design team.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are more non-Americans than American's on Apple's design team. I know several are from the UK and Australia, one is Italian and one is German. And one that left within the last year was Japanese.
post #177 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

Hahaha..... I don't understand how you Apple fans still using an Iphone. Why dont you open your eyes and at least check comparations on youtube. Here it is one that you should see:
Part 1: http://youtu.be/NMiY1kSTHZw
Part 2: http://youtu.be/Ayx4XsBaJBI
Part 3: http://youtu.be/fsGQ_xts_Gw
Part 4: http://youtu.be/jlPKVWv1WxU
Part 5: http://youtu.be/q5A4k1bDV0s

Hey mate, I got a short attention span and couldn't be bothered sitting through the ads, can you fill me in on what they are about.

Oh yeah, here's mine:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm2FfWmfl3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Note the 91% thumbs down, my experiment shows that 91% of Fandroids can't handle being confronted with the truth.

Have a fantastic day, cobber.
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post #178 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post

You should read the review on androidpolice website, it fairly positive, but points out many simple faults that could have been corrected/redesigned.
The problem I feel is that the Asian culture does not have the right tools to create world design. Maybe it's something about western culture having such depth and breadth that makes our manufactures world beaters.
Just look at the car industry, have you ever seen a truly original gorgeous design come out of any of the Asian manufactures? Maybe one or two, but the rest seem to borrow most of the design cues from western companies.

 

I think it would be unfair to label the entire Asian continent as bad designers. Japan initially copied but later came up with their own ideas. China copies but mostly for domestic consumption. The Chinese have yet copied something and claim it's their own design and sell it internationally like Samscum and other Korean companies. Korea by far is the most blatant in copying, changing a few things then claiming it as their invention.

 

 

Just watch the first 3mins of it and you'll see what I mean.

post #179 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark View Post

What is "American" design anyways? Sure Ford et al are based in the US but their who's on the design team? I'm sure there are a plethora of ethnicities on the team, probably even an Asian or 2. Same goes for Apple's design team.

It's simple really, "American" design is something that designers who are employed by American companies are paid to produce.

It costs real money and it creates real jobs which are worth protecting.

Tim Cook summed it up when he said he doesn't want Apple to become the world's designer.
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post #180 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post

You should read the review on androidpolice website, it fairly positive, but points out many simple faults that could have been corrected/redesigned.
The problem I feel is that the Asian culture does not have the right tools to create world design. Maybe it's something about western culture having such depth and breadth that makes our manufactures world beaters.
Just look at the car industry, have you ever seen a truly original gorgeous design come out of any of the Asian manufactures? Maybe one or two, but the rest seem to borrow most of the design cues from western companies.


What a pile of crap. Stereotyping inevitably invites easy counterarguments.

 

What company did Steve Jobs admire most when it came it design of consumer electronics? Sony.

 

As far depth and breadth of culture, the US is such a young nation that cultural depth is only relevant if you are talking about the native Indians.

post #181 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Exactly my point.

Although it is worth noting the leading design schools are in the US and Europe (with faculty and students from around the world.)

It's also worth noting that most designers end up staying in the country where they finish their design education.


What survey/study can you cite to back the claim that design students stay in the country of their education more than most other fields?

post #182 of 196

Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong.  Here are the  secret emails to prove it."  Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to."  No one there has any integrity?

post #183 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It's simple really, "American" design is something that designers who are employed by American companies are paid to produce.
It costs real money and it creates real jobs which are worth protecting.
Tim Cook summed it up when he said he doesn't want Apple to become the world's designer.

You are correct in that, however you miss my point. I was simply responding to the post above which claimed that Asians can't be creative and Western culture is better suited for "world design". However, much of what is considered "American" designed was most likely a multicultural effort. Americans, European, African, and Asian. Hell... "American" is itself multicultural in nature. We're not all caucasians from ol' Britannia.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply
post #184 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong.  Here are the  secret emails to prove it."  Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to."  No one there has any integrity?

Most likely anyone with any actual proof is on the take already. No reason for one of them to come forward. everyone else who suspected but weren't in the loop have no reason to speak out with no evidence and have the courts ignore him and at the same time lose their job.

Plus we're not talking about whistleblowing for big tobacco to save lives. It's just a grown-up toy. A really cool, world changing toy... but a toy none the less.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply
post #185 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccaguy View Post

I think this is an important point that the jury (rightly, IMHO) picked up on early- there are other ways to design a smart phone. Blackberry and Nokia phones didn't look like iPhones, so why did Samsung decide theirs -had- to not only look like them, but try to duplicate the iOS user experience? Granted, when a company as innovative as Apple comes up with something that becomes an obvious standard, that doesn't mean it's not protected by patents. 

 

I had this exact same thought. Hadn't read that line elsewhere, and it's critical. It was clearly not the natural-progression or inevitable-path that Samsung was forced to follow.

post #186 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimo View Post

Hahaha..... I don't understand how you Apple fans still using an Iphone. Why dont you open your eyes and at least check comparations on youtube. Here it is one that you should see:
Part 1: http://youtu.be/NMiY1kSTHZw
Part 2: http://youtu.be/Ayx4XsBaJBI
Part 3: http://youtu.be/fsGQ_xts_Gw
Part 4: http://youtu.be/jlPKVWv1WxU
Part 5: http://youtu.be/q5A4k1bDV0s

 

So, here you are on a site dedicated to the Apple ecosystem but you are not interested in edifying other members but instead only in pointing out their faults. Why would you do that? Oh, you hope to help even one 'fan' see the light. Got a hint for you... if you are going to hang around, you might actually see the light - better run away before the unthinkable occurs!

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post #187 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong.  Here are the  secret emails to prove it."  Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to."  No one there has any integrity?

That's extremely naive.

First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.

Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.

Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.

Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.
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post #188 of 196

I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers.  Conflict of interest.  Period.


EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products.  One or the other, but not both.

 

I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers. 

post #189 of 196
post #190 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


That's extremely naive.
First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.
Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.
Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.
Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.

Yeah I know all that, but still.  You would think that with all the tens of thousands of people there that one of them might think there could be something in it for them if they corroborated presented evidence.  I would have loved to see one of the designers come forward and say they were told to do it.  That would have raised the fine and damages ultimately.

post #191 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Given the certitude in the jury, it's interesting that Judge Koh, on the other hand, was framing this as an equally risky proposition for both sides, in urging Apple to settle.

Either she was clueless in reading the jury, or...... (hypothesis?)

Anyway, I am predicting that she does not treble damages nor go with the injunction. I hope I am wrong.

Judges need to show impartiality for the cases that they are handling. Otherwise, it gives the parties additional opportunities to appeal the case. The injunction is fair & appears to be Apple's motive in this case. I see their motive is to prevent the copycat phones from being sold, the handset maker will release new designs that aren't infringing, which is what they have always wanted. If Samsung was smart, then they already have addressed this possibility & have new designs ready to go to market. However, I question Samsung's competence as they have been in a contentious legal fight with their largest customer. Samsung has had many opportunities to settle, before Apple filed the lawsuit, they offered Samsung the opportunity to license Apple's patents & Apple was open to cross-licensing, so Samsung would have made some revenue in return. They could have possibly kept a profitable customer. Now all that is lost & Apple appears to be in the process of finding new suppliers
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post #192 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers.  Conflict of interest.  Period.


EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products.  One or the other, but not both.

 

I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers. 

What would happen if Samsung decided that as of tomorrow that they were not supplying any components to Apple? How long would it take for Apple to get a court order for Samsung to honor their contract?

post #193 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers.  Conflict of interest.  Period.


EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products.  One or the other, but not both.

 

I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers. 

 

I don't think you've quite thought that one through, have you?  Samsung produced phones long before Apple were in the phone market.  And Apple then chose Samsung as a supplier, nobody forced them.

 

At this time Apple need Samsung components and Samsung are happy to meet their contractual obligations.

 

Its called free trade, and your proposal would not stand up legally in any country in the world.

post #194 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShepherd View Post

What would happen if Samsung decided that as of tomorrow that they were not supplying any components to Apple? How long would it take for Apple to get a court order for Samsung to honor their contract?

Hours or days. It IS possible to get an emergency hearing when it's justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Yeah I know all that, but still.  You would think that with all the tens of thousands of people there that one of them might think there could be something in it for them if they corroborated presented evidence.  I would have loved to see one of the designers come forward and say they were told to do it.  That would have raised the fine and damages ultimately.

Again, you're not being realistic. Expecting someone to come forward to speak out against their employer is unreasonable - particularly in an Asian culture.

Besides, they didn't need employees to step forward. The written documents (at least the ones that weren't destroyed) speak for themselves.
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post #195 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well done, jurors. Well done. Common sense prevailed. If only the trolls on this site were equally inclined. lol.gif

 

And now we see clearly how distorted the worldview is of the Apple-haters and the rectanglez trolls. They are nowhere near mainstream in their views: their tech/gadget/specs elitism does not represent the view of the average person.

Very glad this came down in Apple's favor as it means a lot of good things.

 

1) Patents are important and  though they can be abused by large companies or patent trolls they also allow innovators to come from a nowhere background & break into recognition & wealth.  Take that away & big companies will still prosper, they don't really need patents necessarily to throw their weight around.  Take away patents & what reason does anyone have to develop & market good ideas, it'd be a huge waste of time & money.  Anyone who's ever tried to develop, get investment, and market an invention understands this & the "haters" don't understand this because they've never taken that kind of risk. 

 

2) If you live in America you should be especially happy about this win.  Too often we've seen certain foreign companies come in & simply copy competition while undercutting them on price.  It's one of the reasons American companies have had to move production overseas as they just can't compete with that any other way.  Hopefully this win is a slap to those companies that they can't just make blatant knock offs & then undercut pricing of those who invested the actual time & resources on the R&D.  Samsung's first phone was a color production of the originally submitted patent designs by Apple, I mean talk about shameless.

 

I don't care if Apple sells more phones or Google does or whoever, it isn't about brand for me.  It's about rewarding innovation & recognizing thieves like Samsung for who they are.  If someone comes out a year from now & proves Apple stole their IP, so be it, I won't cry any.  We need to get things cleaned up, the world has become to comfortable with cheating to get ahead.


Edited by hezetation - 8/28/12 at 7:53pm
post #196 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers.  Conflict of interest.  Period.

 

 

If you banned Samsung in making product then don't expect your Apple with make a perfect innovation.

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