Jurors knew Samsung was guilty after first day of deliberations, wanted to send message with verdict - Page 5

As far as I'm concerned, the trial was over after the Samsung before and after photo.  In addition to being guilty, they made themselves look like morons.  Most people caught in a lie will make themselves look like idiots trying to admonish their guilt.

I guess this means that Samsung won't be able to copy the butt ugly iPhone 5 now...

American design

 

Asian design

 

This is "butt ugly"?

 

 

It's this, but with a second black bar. 

 

In France we call that kind of phone a "phone booth".

Samsung is down 6% at KOSPI open in Seoul Monday morning.

 

That's a US$11B drop in their market cap. (As I said before, the jury ruling pales in comparison.)

 

Serves them right.

 

We can be sure that what Apple tries to invent next will be a new market/device concept created by others but in which the full potential is not realized.  I don't think it's TV. Apple TV is just uniting the Apple content ecosystem while not leaving them out of the living room.  It may have been meant to be more, and there may still be experimentation, but they have not cracked the nut yet.  

 

But where?

 

I'll tell you where it's not.  All the things that sustain the mobile devices and are obvious extensions.  Payment systems, advances in miniature cameras for still photos and video, accessories linked to apps for control like NEST, useful and cost effective pens for mobile input, etc.  

 

Then where to look?  Usually it is something already around that is not perfected.  One example is the cloud which is in it's infancy.  What's the gap?  Wireless bandwidth.  We can be sure that what Apple tries to invent next will be a new market/device concept created by others but in which the full potential is not realized.  I don't think it's TV. Apple TV is just uniting the Apple content ecosystem while not leaving them out of the living room.  It may have been meant to be more, and there may still be experimentation, but they have not cracked the nut yet.  

 

But where?

 

I'll tell you where it's not.  All the things that sustain the mobile devices and are obvious extensions.  Payment systems, advances in miniature cameras for still photos and video, accessories linked to apps for control like NEST, useful and cost effective pens for mobile input, etc.  

 

Then where to look?  Usually it is something already around that is not perfected.  One example is the cloud which is in it's infancy.  What's the gap?  Wireless bandwidth.  How many of you with large photo or video collections can upload or download on the fly?  At my pitiful upload speeds I cannot back up to the cloud my 500 GB of photos.  Now, don't expect Apple to invent the impressive technology required to increase wireless bandwidth.  They will just use it.  We are years off.  So that's just one example.  

 

Just watch carefully for new categories of capability - devices or network oriented - and you can be sure Apple is watching it.  It will be linked to daily life as it exists now in a freeing kind of way.

Samsung's stock price is down like 6.4% already:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/companies/samsung-shares-plunge-after-patent-verdict/story-fndfr3g3-1226458770979

Or look at it's page directly:
http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/ir/irfaqs/stockdividend/IR_StockDividend.html

Just as we all shuddered at how Apple's iPods became so very expensive when others were prevented from duplicating Apple's innovations in that space.

Oh wait, iPods were way nicer, and a far better value than the alternative players "in the absence of direct competition" and the sky didn't fall either.

 

Thanks for the links.  I too think Apple users should see this and insist Apple to copy (I mean innovate).

Is that "Asian deign?"

Pretty much every asian automotive company has a major design studio in Detroit or California. Nissan has had big design studios in the US for over 30 years! They have studios in England and China too (but I bet there are creative people from all over the world in all of their studios.)

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DESIGN/BASE/

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but that's not really a good comparison. MP3 players are/were a luxury item, not needed by anyone. Also, its competitors were CD players and radios. So iPods were only a monopoly in a subsection of the portable music market. A large subsection admittedly, but still alternatives.

Smartphones on the other hand are quickly becoming a necessity, especially in the business world, in large part to the iPhone and Crackberry.

A better argument to ondafence's point would be MS Windows's virtual monopoly in the desktop market. Still didn't drive costs for WinXP through the roof nor make the "MS tax" unreasonable.

Of course only time will tell how the smartphone market shakes out. We've already seen the rise and fall of its first comers RIM & WinMo (Palm too I guess). A land of IOS and Android may be the stabilization point. Or Win8 could conqu... haha couldn't say that with a straight face.

What is "American" design anyways? Sure Ford et al are based in the US but their who's on the design team? I'm sure there are a plethora of ethnicities on the team, probably even an Asian or 2. Same goes for Apple's design team.

Before the iPhone came out smart phones "are/were a luxury item too."

Apple made iPods ubiquitous and a "necessity" just as they have smart phones.

Frankly though, neither device was or is a necessity, or a luxury.

Mobilizing computing and communication devices has proven very useful though.

Exactly my point.

Although it is worth noting the leading design schools are in the US and Europe (with faculty and students from around the world.)

It's also worth noting that most designers end up staying in the country where they finish their design education.

Edited by DESuserIGN - 8/26/12 at 7:45pm

I wouldn't be surprised if there are more non-Americans than American's on Apple's design team. I know several are from the UK and Australia, one is Italian and one is German. And one that left within the last year was Japanese.

Hey mate, I got a short attention span and couldn't be bothered sitting through the ads, can you fill me in on what they are about.

Oh yeah, here's mine:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm2FfWmfl3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Note the 91% thumbs down, my experiment shows that 91% of Fandroids can't handle being confronted with the truth.

Have a fantastic day, cobber.

 

I think it would be unfair to label the entire Asian continent as bad designers. Japan initially copied but later came up with their own ideas. China copies but mostly for domestic consumption. The Chinese have yet copied something and claim it's their own design and sell it internationally like Samscum and other Korean companies. Korea by far is the most blatant in copying, changing a few things then claiming it as their invention.

 

 

Just watch the first 3mins of it and you'll see what I mean.

It's simple really, "American" design is something that designers who are employed by American companies are paid to produce.

It costs real money and it creates real jobs which are worth protecting.

Tim Cook summed it up when he said he doesn't want Apple to become the world's designer.

What a pile of crap. Stereotyping inevitably invites easy counterarguments.

 

What company did Steve Jobs admire most when it came it design of consumer electronics? Sony.

 

As far depth and breadth of culture, the US is such a young nation that cultural depth is only relevant if you are talking about the native Indians.

What survey/study can you cite to back the claim that design students stay in the country of their education more than most other fields?

Through all this legal brouhaha I have wondered why not one person from Samsung has chosen to stand up and say "Yeah we copied them and it was wrong.  Here are the  secret emails to prove it."  Or "Yeah I copied it because Mr. VP told me to."  No one there has any integrity?

You are correct in that, however you miss my point. I was simply responding to the post above which claimed that Asians can't be creative and Western culture is better suited for "world design". However, much of what is considered "American" designed was most likely a multicultural effort. Americans, European, African, and Asian. Hell... "American" is itself multicultural in nature. We're not all caucasians from ol' Britannia.

Most likely anyone with any actual proof is on the take already. No reason for one of them to come forward. everyone else who suspected but weren't in the loop have no reason to speak out with no evidence and have the courts ignore him and at the same time lose their job.

Plus we're not talking about whistleblowing for big tobacco to save lives. It's just a grown-up toy. A really cool, world changing toy... but a toy none the less.

 

I had this exact same thought. Hadn't read that line elsewhere, and it's critical. It was clearly not the natural-progression or inevitable-path that Samsung was forced to follow.

 

So, here you are on a site dedicated to the Apple ecosystem but you are not interested in edifying other members but instead only in pointing out their faults. Why would you do that? Oh, you hope to help even one 'fan' see the light. Got a hint for you... if you are going to hang around, you might actually see the light - better run away before the unthinkable occurs!

That's extremely naive.

First, there was plenty of evidence presented in the court case which strongly established that Samsung did everything they could to copy the iPhone.

Second, few people are going to give up their jobs to do something like this.

Third, the fact that no one has stood up is further evidence that their corporate culture is such that copying is OK. The evidence is very strong that they DID copy, but if no one thinks there's anything wrong with that, they have a corporate culture problem - which was also established in the court case.

Finally, any emails that might have existed have been destroyed because of Samsung's evidence destruction procedures.

I think Samsung should be banned on making products that compete with their components customers.  Conflict of interest.  Period.

EIther they want to make components for others as a vendor or they want to make components for their own products.  One or the other, but not both.

 

I think there should be a law, if there isn't already, where a component supplier's cannot enter the same market as their customers. 

 

 

The comparisons have already been done. The results:

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57398726-37/iphone-again-scores-top-spot-at-customer-satisfaction/

 

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/16/iphone-waltzes-into-top-spot-of-us-phone-satisfaction-index/

 

http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/01/09/iphone-satisfaction-at-75-closest-competitor-at-47/

Yeah I know all that, but still.  You would think that with all the tens of thousands of people there that one of them might think there could be something in it for them if they corroborated presented evidence.  I would have loved to see one of the designers come forward and say they were told to do it.  That would have raised the fine and damages ultimately.

Judges need to show impartiality for the cases that they are handling. Otherwise, it gives the parties additional opportunities to appeal the case. The injunction is fair & appears to be Apple's motive in this case. I see their motive is to prevent the copycat phones from being sold, the handset maker will release new designs that aren't infringing, which is what they have always wanted. If Samsung was smart, then they already have addressed this possibility & have new designs ready to go to market. However, I question Samsung's competence as they have been in a contentious legal fight with their largest customer. Samsung has had many opportunities to settle, before Apple filed the lawsuit, they offered Samsung the opportunity to license Apple's patents & Apple was open to cross-licensing, so Samsung would have made some revenue in return. They could have possibly kept a profitable customer. Now all that is lost & Apple appears to be in the process of finding new suppliers

What would happen if Samsung decided that as of tomorrow that they were not supplying any components to Apple? How long would it take for Apple to get a court order for Samsung to honor their contract?

 

I don't think you've quite thought that one through, have you?  Samsung produced phones long before Apple were in the phone market.  And Apple then chose Samsung as a supplier, nobody forced them.

 

At this time Apple need Samsung components and Samsung are happy to meet their contractual obligations.

 

Its called free trade, and your proposal would not stand up legally in any country in the world.

Hours or days. It IS possible to get an emergency hearing when it's justified.

Again, you're not being realistic. Expecting someone to come forward to speak out against their employer is unreasonable - particularly in an Asian culture.

Besides, they didn't need employees to step forward. The written documents (at least the ones that weren't destroyed) speak for themselves.

Very glad this came down in Apple's favor as it means a lot of good things.

 

1) Patents are important and  though they can be abused by large companies or patent trolls they also allow innovators to come from a nowhere background & break into recognition & wealth.  Take that away & big companies will still prosper, they don't really need patents necessarily to throw their weight around.  Take away patents & what reason does anyone have to develop & market good ideas, it'd be a huge waste of time & money.  Anyone who's ever tried to develop, get investment, and market an invention understands this & the "haters" don't understand this because they've never taken that kind of risk. 

 

2) If you live in America you should be especially happy about this win.  Too often we've seen certain foreign companies come in & simply copy competition while undercutting them on price.  It's one of the reasons American companies have had to move production overseas as they just can't compete with that any other way.  Hopefully this win is a slap to those companies that they can't just make blatant knock offs & then undercut pricing of those who invested the actual time & resources on the R&D.  Samsung's first phone was a color production of the originally submitted patent designs by Apple, I mean talk about shameless.

 

I don't care if Apple sells more phones or Google does or whoever, it isn't about brand for me.  It's about rewarding innovation & recognizing thieves like Samsung for who they are.  If someone comes out a year from now & proves Apple stole their IP, so be it, I won't cry any.  We need to get things cleaned up, the world has become to comfortable with cheating to get ahead.

Edited by hezetation - 8/28/12 at 7:53pm

 

 

If you banned Samsung in making product then don't expect your Apple with make a perfect innovation.