Apple's next iPhone not expected to feature NFC technology

The Anandtech article is a really good analysis of what to expect based on history, I do hope they are wrong on some points though.

Would love to see Apple release an A15 based A6 SoC, or maybe using the Qualcomm S4.

Their analysis is flawed, driver circuitry for the in-cell panel will be on the main circuit board, not mounted seperately on the back under a glass or plastic (probably glass) panel.

I'm not saying what we're looking at is definitely NFC, but their explanation is bull.

This doesn't surprise me in the least. Apple spoon feeds capabilities to their customers while others provide these capabilities more quickly. In the long run it won't matter because people who buy Apple products are used to this process and/or don't care.

It is just me, but Im not big on the phone being the sole source for authorization to pay for things... just call me Mr Luddite!

IMO - need two seperate authorization 'devices'. Say a key fob in my pocket would be one, then a code(or finger reader etc) on the phone....  I know, cumbersome, but Im paranoid and some say dilusional too. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by daMoog 

Their analysis is flawed, driver circuitry for the in-cell panel will be on the main circuit board, not mounted seperately on the back under a glass or plastic (probably glass) panel.

 

I'm not saying what we're looking at is definitely NFC, but their explanation is bull.

Their explanation of what it might be might be flawed, but they do bring up some good points regarding the antenna needed for NFC, and why this specific chip is not NFC.

I'm not sure if the back case can be the antenna...that metal looks like it'd be pushed against the back. Another possibility is using the case as a heat sink?
 

Okay. I bought the 4s for better camera, faster CPU, and Siri. An iPhone 5 with just a larger screen doesn't offer anything worth upgrading to. Apple's success depends now on innovations that are truly innovative. The iPhone had a several year head start on other vendors so they could, and probably had to, make modest improvements over the years. Now, however, there is real competition for that market, requiring both more rapid innovation while maintaining high quality. It's a big order for Apple, but they have to deliver. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by waldobushman 

Okay. I bought the 4s for better camera, faster CPU, and Siri. An iPhone 5 with just a larger screen doesn't offer anything worth upgrading to. Apple's success depends now on innovations that are truly innovative. The iPhone had a several year head start on other vendors so they could, and probably had to, make modest improvements over the years. Now, however, there is real competition for that market, requiring both more rapid innovation while maintaining high quality. It's a big order for Apple, but they have to deliver. 

Is NFC worth upgrading to? Retail outlets won't be ready for years to come (so why not wait until then), and NFC does not solve a problem that hasn't been solved by barcode scanning.

There are places where NFC would be a competitive advantage. Starbucks comes to mind...
 

We haven't expected NFC since it was ruled out because of it's lack of safety features.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boeyc15 

It is just me, but Im not big on the phone being the sole source for authorization to pay for things... just call me Mr Luddite!

IMO - need two seperate authorization 'devices'. Say a key fob in my pocket would be one, then a code(or finger reader etc) on the phone....  I know, cumbersome, but Im paranoid and some say dilusional too. :)

What do the other voices say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by boeyc15 

It is just me, but Im not big on the phone being the sole source for authorization to pay for things... just call me Mr Luddite!

IMO - need two seperate authorization 'devices'. Say a key fob in my pocket would be one, then a code(or finger reader etc) on the phone....  I know, cumbersome, but Im paranoid and some say dilusional too. :)

There is also the rumor of a fingerprint scanner being embedded in the home key.  So, swipe your fingerprint and then use NFC to purchase things.  I'd be happy with that verification plan.

NFC is easily the most unimportant upgrade to an iPhone for me. Taking out my credit card from my wallet is not actually a big hassle for me. Also different cards run different promotions. Sometimes Discover offers 5% cash back for gas and groceries or Amex might double the cash back for local restaurants. 

I would like Apple to include more bluetooth profiles for file transfers. I would also like some sort of notification for missed calls or texts. A flashing LED is surely a better way than the current method which makes you turn the phone on and view the screen to see if you got a call or text. They wouldn't necessarily have to use the flashing LED, but they need some method to let us know about missed calls and texts. I would also like the ability to change my wallpaper for each screen. The reason for that is it would make it a lot easier to differentiate between them all when scrolling between them quickly. Yeah, NFC is pretty low on my list for features. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamewing 

This doesn't surprise me in the least. Apple spoon feeds capabilities to their customers while others provide these capabilities more quickly. In the long run it won't matter because people who buy Apple products are used to this process and/or don't care.

tell me how many NFS PoS systems are out there... it's less spoonfeeding than waiting for infrastructure is in place for the critical masses before deploying.    LTE was like this, 3G was like this, camera was like this, Siri was like this , etc.  Apple, with some stumbles (antenna, mobileme), tries to deliver 'great' systems, with minimal growing/early-adopter pain.

That said, I wished they could have pushed this a bit...  Partner with Starbucks, JC Penney, or whomever.  but my guess the big thing is the PCI stuff (think VISA/MC/AMEX et al wants to have an Apple ID in between the buyer and the seller?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav 

 

Is NFC worth upgrading to? Retail outlets won't be ready for years to come (so why not wait until then), and NFC does not solve a problem that hasn't been solved by barcode scanning.

This...NFC is not worth it right now. There are too many standards, it is insecure, and hardly any retailer (outside Japan) uses it.

My issue is that, at least in the US, Apple is the one company that can change this. Google pushed NFC a year ago, and it has barely made a difference. The same won't be true of Apple. If Apple pushes NFC, retailers will follow.

Creating markets is what Apple is good at. NFC is a real opportunity for them here, and I find it frustrating that they are wasting it. Passbook is a good first step, but NFC could add a lot to it.

NFC is insecure. iPhone 5 has a BLE chip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy

NFC is dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wurm5150 

Wish Apple would just go ahead and put NFC on the next iPhone to future proof it. NFC can be used for other than e-wallets..

Future proofing!  Do you know the difference between Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, and Future Proofing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff 

That said, I wished they could have pushed this a bit...  Partner with Starbucks, JC Penney, or whomever.

Or Apple's own retail stores?

Hmm... use an Android to buy an iPhone... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodar 

There is also the rumor of a fingerprint scanner being embedded in the home key.  So, swipe your fingerprint and then use NFC to purchase things.  I'd be happy with that verification plan.

No, the technology Apple is trying to buy would make the screen a fingerprint reader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlaw 

Future proofing!  Do you know the difference between Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, and Future Proofing...

The first two are real and future proofing isn't???

This whole NFC situation, just like AntennaGate, reflects the dearth of real engineering know how amongst tech bloggers.

Originally Posted by Harbinger 
This whole NFC situation, just like AntennaGate, reflects the dearth of real engineering know how amongst tech bloggers.

I agree. I certainly hope there's no dedicated "NFC hardware" in Apple's digital wallet implementation. It has been thrown around a little that they might use Bluetooth, and I certainly hope so, for many reasons.

First, Bluetooth's everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Any other system would have to be built out, and they're not gonna do that. It's just not gonna happen! If it's specialized hardware only on the iPhone, I won't be able to go down to my local grocery store and buy things with my phone for over a decade! And that's even only if the system catches on as a system!

Second, people know Bluetooth. I'm not talking users, I'm talking hardware creators. Accessory makers. They understand it already. 

Third, Bluetooth makes it possible for EXISTING iPhones to get this feature, too! Having an installed base of users on DAY ONE will make Apple's version succeed. Having to buy more iPhones to do it… will take far longer.

I mean, okay, picture this. How's this for the future of purchasing: 

You drive to the store. Your iPhone knows where you are and reminds you what you're supposed to get. Not only that, it tells you what aisle those things are in, because the store has networked with Apple and uploaded its product layout to them. So you go to the aisle and find what you want. Pick it up, hold up your iPhone, picture of the QR barcode that has replaced the old style barcode on packaging. Now your iPhone knows what it is (1). Read that footnote first, then continue. You read it? Good, continuing. Not only does your iPhone now know what it is, it's on your list now as 'in your cart', because it probably is physically in your cart by now. Do the same with all the other products you want, and then… walk out. Just walk out. When you reach the boundary of the store geofence, your account is charged for the amount of the products in your cart. Just like an Apple Store today, but with every store. 

You want a revolution? They'll give you two. One for consumers, one for store owners. First, Apple has psychologically legitimized the behavior formerly known as stealing. It'll take a few years, but we will completely redefine what it means to buy something in a physical store. No more cashiers, no more cash registers, no conveyor belts, no self-checkout machines that never work. Take it, scan it, walk out. All yourself. And even in advance. Make your list of exactly the products you want, pay for it in advance, and don't even scan it in the store; just in, cart, out. Simple. 

Second, since each store's inventory and product location is connected to Apple's servers for the purpose of helping customers find what they want and at the best price and where they want to find it, when a customer makes a purchase, that inventory is deducted from the store's immediately at point of purchase. So store owners can see in real-time at any given time what products from what brands are selling best. This can also be uploaded immediately to the product's manufacturers. Product testbeds can give results in weeks instead of months. Manufacturing can be scaled back on existing products selling poorly and scaled up to meet a temporary or permanent demand for others.

(1) Your iPhone now knows this product. It knows you want this product. So it looks around for better prices for this product and tells you if it's cheaper elsewhere or the same price for a greater quantity. Additionally, now that it knows you want this product, in the future when this product is on your list and you get to the store, your iPhone will tell you if this product is currently in stock at the store. Because the store has networked with Apple and allowed Apple devices to check its inventory! And not just Apple devices, ALL devices. You'll see why above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlaw 

Future proofing!  Do you know the difference between Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, and Future Proofing...

I hope you didn't patent that. It's too good not to share.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

I agree. I certainly hope there's no dedicated "NFC hardware" in Apple's digital wallet implementation. It has been thrown around a little that they might use Bluetooth, and I certainly hope so, for many reasons.

First, Bluetooth's everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Any other system would have to be built out, and they're not gonna do that. It's just not gonna happen! If it's specialized hardware only on the iPhone, I won't be able to go down to my local grocery store and buy things with my phone for over a decade! And that's even only if the system catches on as a system!

 

Second, people know Bluetooth. I'm not talking users, I'm talking hardware creators. Accessory makers. They understand it already. 

 

Third, Bluetooth makes it possible for EXISTING iPhones to get this feature, too! Having an installed base of users on DAY ONE will make Apple's version succeed. Having to buy more iPhones to do it… will take far longer.

 

I mean, okay, picture this. How's this for the future of purchasing: 

 

You drive to the store. Your iPhone knows where you are and reminds you what you're supposed to get. Not only that, it tells you what aisle those things are in, because the store has networked with Apple and uploaded its product layout to them. So you go to the aisle and find what you want. Pick it up, hold up your iPhone, picture of the QR barcode that has replaced the old style barcode on packaging. Now your iPhone knows what it is (1). Read that footnote first, then continue. You read it? Good, continuing. Not only does your iPhone now know what it is, it's on your list now as 'in your cart', because it probably is physically in your cart by now. Do the same with all the other products you want, and then… walk out. Just walk out. When you reach the boundary of the store geofence, your account is charged for the amount of the products in your cart. Just like an Apple Store today, but with every store. 

 

You want a revolution? They'll give you two. One for consumers, one for store owners. First, Apple has psychologically legitimized the behavior formerly known as stealing. It'll take a few years, but we will completely redefine what it means to buy something in a physical store. No more cashiers, no more cash registers, no conveyor belts, no self-checkout machines that never work. Take it, scan it, walk out. All yourself. And even in advance. Make your list of exactly the products you want, pay for it in advance, and don't even scan it in the store; just in, cart, out. Simple. 

 

Second, since each store's inventory and product location is connected to Apple's servers for the purpose of helping customers find what they want and at the best price and where they want to find it, when a customer makes a purchase, that inventory is deducted from the store's immediately at point of purchase. So store owners can see in real-time at any given time what products from what brands are selling best. This can also be uploaded immediately to the product's manufacturers. Product testbeds can give results in weeks instead of months. Manufacturing can be scaled back on existing products selling poorly and scaled up to meet a temporary or permanent demand for others.

 

(1) Your iPhone now knows this product. It knows you want this product. So it looks around for better prices for this product and tells you if it's cheaper elsewhere or the same price for a greater quantity. Additionally, now that it knows you want this product, in the future when this product is on your list and you get to the store, your iPhone will tell you if this product is currently in stock at the store. Because the store has networked with Apple and allowed Apple devices to check its inventory! And not just Apple devices, ALL devices. You'll see why above.

Interesting thought, though I imagine the store would actually have their own database that Apple's device (or just an app) is interfacing with, and it wouldn't actually be Apple's server with the inventory lists, because stores aren't likely to want to tie themselves to only one product line being able to use that feature.

What do you see as the solution for changing your mind and putting something back on the shelf? Will the shopper have to remember to re-scan the item before placing it back? A bit of a longer process, but I don't see how the iPhone could detect an item is no longer in the cart otherwise. That brings up the problem, though, that someone could re-scan the item and pretend it's not in their cart, but never actually put it back on the shelf, right? Maybe you have an idea for this but I imagine it's just these sorts of nuances that make the concept difficult to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

I agree. I certainly hope there's no dedicated "NFC hardware" in Apple's digital wallet implementation. It has been thrown around a little that they might use Bluetooth, and I certainly hope so, for many reasons.

First, Bluetooth's everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Any other system would have to be built out, and they're not gonna do that. It's just not gonna happen! If it's specialized hardware only on the iPhone, I won't be able to go down to my local grocery store and buy things with my phone for over a decade! And that's even only if the system catches on as a system!

 

Second, people know Bluetooth. I'm not talking users, I'm talking hardware creators. Accessory makers. They understand it already. 

 

Third, Bluetooth makes it possible for EXISTING iPhones to get this feature, too! Having an installed base of users on DAY ONE will make Apple's version succeed. Having to buy more iPhones to do it… will take far longer.

 

I mean, okay, picture this. How's this for the future of purchasing: 

 

You drive to the store. Your iPhone knows where you are and reminds you what you're supposed to get. Not only that, it tells you what aisle those things are in, because the store has networked with Apple and uploaded its product layout to them. So you go to the aisle and find what you want. Pick it up, hold up your iPhone, picture of the QR barcode that has replaced the old style barcode on packaging. Now your iPhone knows what it is (1). Read that footnote first, then continue. You read it? Good, continuing. Not only does your iPhone now know what it is, it's on your list now as 'in your cart', because it probably is physically in your cart by now. Do the same with all the other products you want, and then… walk out. Just walk out. When you reach the boundary of the store geofence, your account is charged for the amount of the products in your cart. Just like an Apple Store today, but with every store. 

...

Interesting. BUt what do you mean by just like an Apple store today? I don't know of an Apple store where your account is charged automatically when you exit the geofence. It's a cool concept but is it happening already? I can imagine parents freaking out as teenagers walk out of every store with new clothes :)

BTW, Ron Johnson has already mentioned JC Penney would soon emulate Apple stores with "mobile" cashiers.

Originally Posted by Harbinger 
BUt what do you mean by just like an Apple store today? I don't know of an Apple store where your account is charged automatically when you exit the geofence.

Oh, sorry, yeah, that's not happening right now. But you can prepay for products in an Apple Store, walk in, take it off the shelf, and walk out. The geofence thing would be a simple extension of that which would allow customers to make the purchasing decision in-store while retaining the overall workflow of the system (in, take, out). 

Of course in all instances in all stores, before you leave the geofence you will have the option of removing any scanned items from your list. That, of course, can be helped along by repurposing the location of check out lines into simple bins where you'd place unwanted product, and then the employees would return said product to the shelves. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


Are you sure about the bolded? There are a lot of people who don't pay attention to the facts even AFTER the product is released. After all, how many trolls did we have to deal with who insisted that the 4S had nothing new. In fact, it had a new processor, new GPU, several key new software functions, improved camera, and so on - virtually EVERYTHING in the phone was new except for the case.
Even reality doesn't stop the trolls.

That's why the iPhone 4S has been such a dismal failure for Apple. No one is even buying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bighype 

NFC is insecure. iPhone 5 has a BLE chip.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy

 

NFC is dead.

Like I said.

Apple will not use NFC as there is no advantage for Apple.  Apple will not rely upon another vendor to create the necessary infrastructure for secure mobile payment transactions.  The consumer will use their iDevice to pay while the retailer will use a retail point-of-sale presence iDevice to receive the payment.  The transaction will be performed over Bluetooth rather than NFC, specifically Apple's mobile payment system will require the use of a security protocol suite which Apple may eventually publish.

As I have stated previously, the processor shown in the images is the AuthenTec AES2750 fingerprint sensor for secure mobile payment transactions.

One of the greatest problems with NFC is the go-to-market strategy.  Which comes first; the NFC point-of-sale terminal or the NFC-enabled mobile payment systems?  We already know from Google's doomed attempt at implementing NFC in Android-based smartphones that  NFC-enabled mobile payment systems without NFC point-of-sale terminals is pointless.  Apple will circumvent the issue by implementing their own security protocol suite which exclusively enables Apple devices to transact business via Bluetooth.

Apple's implementation of mobile payment systems via Bluetooth solves both the go-to-market strategy and increases the demand for Apple products.