or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's next iPhone not expected to feature NFC technology
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's next iPhone not expected to feature NFC technology - Page 3

post #81 of 100

I don't see what's so convenient about using your phone like a credit or debit card. I just don't get it. I'd rather keep using plastic. I'm sure many others feel the same.

post #82 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Problem 2:  Bluetooth Short Range Financial Transactions (SRFT) was specifically designed for financial transactions.  The protocol uses asymmetric pairing and Diffie-Hellman key exchange with a higher layer authentication protocol (such as RSA2048).  Apple may choose to create a One Time Password (OTP) via Cryptographically Secure Pseudo Random Number Generator (CSPRNG) once device authentication via fingerprint scanner is complete. 

 
Problem 3:  AuthenTec was not a fire sale...
 
Problem7:  Apple has a new feature in iOS 6 known as Bluetooth Sharing which has Privacy Controls.
 
The chip is not an antenna.  The NFC antenna could be mounted on the supposed metal back of the new iPhone.

 

I removed some parts of your message that are not related to factual points I can validate (or invalidate) authoritatively.

 

2. With respect to Bluetooth security, there is a problem, no excuses.  I'm not interested in going into the lengthy details -- do your own homework.  You don't have to believe that I know a lot about Bluetooth as well as cryptosecurity, but it is the truth.

 

3. Authentec was sold for its assets, below the cost of investment.  This is generally understood as a fire sale, but maybe you have a different understanding.  The technology isn't bad (it's good), but the point here is that biometrics acquirable via finger sensors are not sufficiently unique as to be used for unique ids.

 

7. When a connection is established over BT, it can be secure.  The discovery aspect is not secure, because it works by the slave advertising to the master.  Intrinsically secure comms are all listen-before-talk.

 

Finally, there are a lot of clever ways to make an antenna.  Again, you don't have to believe that I know a lot about antennas, but it is the truth.  :)

Cat: the other white meat
Reply
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
post #83 of 100
Originally Posted by 69ergoo View Post
I don't see what's so convenient about using your phone like a credit or debit card. I just don't get it.

 

Not carrying a wallet. Only carrying a phone. That's the big deal.

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply
post #84 of 100

A bit of a wake up call was the so called Global iPad - the New Ipad which supposedly let users access any mobile system . That was actually for the US only . It didn't suit Australian telecommunications , they were fined and consumers disappointed and confused.

Once again Apple will be thinking of the US - The Global market- have phones with these functions and use them daily . The only reason why they are not included as the top range of cell phones with the MOST expensive price i.e., Iphone . Is that apple wants to slowly release the idea , apple will tout that there is no use for NFC as retailers do not carry the devices required for it to work, and security is an issue .  They will want to introduce the world to their answer - a fingerprint based scanner in the iphones screen which will let the reader for payment accept the card info, at a guess. then they can sell the tech off for other cell phone makers . 

I would be disappointed too if they did not give the best they can give each upgrade with such an expensive phone . 

My wife has the 4gs I have the 4 she wants the new one when it is released , I am not so sure . 

post #85 of 100

Firstly who cares. Secondly, which one is the disinformation? one of them is fosho.

post #86 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

There is also the rumor of a fingerprint scanner being embedded in the home key.  So, swipe your fingerprint and then use NFC to purchase things.  I'd be happy with that verification plan.

 

There is talk that Apple may use a fingerprint scanner and Bluetooth 4.0 instead of a separate NFC chip for iWallet. I'd be surprised if they could get the fingerprint scanner in the home key, though. It would seem more likely that it would somehow be embedded in the front glass. That seems plausible and also would make the sixth-gen iPhone much more compelling. Like, break my contract compelling.

 

http://www.quora.com/Apple-Acquisitions/Why-did-Apple-buy-AuthenTec

 

http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/mobile-wireless/3359279/apples-iwallet-will-use-bluetooth-rather-than-nfc-says-analyst/ 

For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
post #87 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Not carrying a wallet. Only carrying a phone. That's the big deal.

I carry cash, drivers license, company building access, AMEX, VISA, Debit, AAA, health insurance, SS card, mass transit pass, grocery store membership, auto insurance ID, a couple business cards, laundry ticket and a few miscellaneous paper receipts. When I travel I also have a passports so I switch everything into a different wallet large enough for the passport.

 

No wallet...Yeah right.rolleyes.gif Like that's gonna happen anytime soon.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #88 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I agree. I certainly hope there's no dedicated "NFC hardware" in Apple's digital wallet implementation. It has been thrown around a little that they might use Bluetooth, and I certainly hope so, for many reasons.


First, Bluetooth's everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Any other system would have to be built out, and they're not gonna do that. It's just not gonna happen! If it's specialized hardware only on the iPhone, I won't be able to go down to my local grocery store and buy things with my phone for over a decade! And that's even only if the system catches on as a system!

 

Second, people know Bluetooth. I'm not talking users, I'm talking hardware creators. Accessory makers. They understand it already. 

 

Third, Bluetooth makes it possible for EXISTING iPhones to get this feature, too! Having an installed base of users on DAY ONE will make Apple's version succeed. Having to buy more iPhones to do it… will take far longer.

 

I mean, okay, picture this. How's this for the future of purchasing: 

 

You drive to the store. Your iPhone knows where you are and reminds you what you're supposed to get. Not only that, it tells you what aisle those things are in, because the store has networked with Apple and uploaded its product layout to them. So you go to the aisle and find what you want. Pick it up, hold up your iPhone, picture of the QR barcode that has replaced the old style barcode on packaging. Now your iPhone knows what it is (1). Read that footnote first, then continue. You read it? Good, continuing. Not only does your iPhone now know what it is, it's on your list now as 'in your cart', because it probably is physically in your cart by now. Do the same with all the other products you want, and then… walk out. Just walk out. When you reach the boundary of the store geofence, your account is charged for the amount of the products in your cart. Just like an Apple Store today, but with every store. 

 

You want a revolution? They'll give you two. One for consumers, one for store owners. First, Apple has psychologically legitimized the behavior formerly known as stealing. It'll take a few years, but we will completely redefine what it means to buy something in a physical store. No more cashiers, no more cash registers, no conveyor belts, no self-checkout machines that never work. Take it, scan it, walk out. All yourself. And even in advance. Make your list of exactly the products you want, pay for it in advance, and don't even scan it in the store; just in, cart, out. Simple. 

 

Second, since each store's inventory and product location is connected to Apple's servers for the purpose of helping customers find what they want and at the best price and where they want to find it, when a customer makes a purchase, that inventory is deducted from the store's immediately at point of purchase. So store owners can see in real-time at any given time what products from what brands are selling best. This can also be uploaded immediately to the product's manufacturers. Product testbeds can give results in weeks instead of months. Manufacturing can be scaled back on existing products selling poorly and scaled up to meet a temporary or permanent demand for others.

 

(1) Your iPhone now knows this product. It knows you want this product. So it looks around for better prices for this product and tells you if it's cheaper elsewhere or the same price for a greater quantity. Additionally, now that it knows you want this product, in the future when this product is on your list and you get to the store, your iPhone will tell you if this product is currently in stock at the store. Because the store has networked with Apple and allowed Apple devices to check its inventory! And not just Apple devices, ALL devices. You'll see why above.

Cliff's Notes Version: Apple will soon allow you to do what you can now do with EasyPay at their retail stores at many stores that are not Apple retail stores.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
post #89 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Not carrying a wallet. Only carrying a phone. That's the big deal.

That's great for people who don't drive. While I can see my insurance card and rewards cards being in passbook- I don't see my drivers license.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #90 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I carry cash, drivers license, company building access, AMEX, VISA, Debit, AAA, health insurance, SS card, mass transit pass, grocery store membership, auto insurance ID, a couple business cards, laundry ticket and a few miscellaneous paper receipts. When I travel I also have a passports so I switch everything into a different wallet large enough for the passport.

No wallet...Yeah right.rolleyes.gif Like that's gonna happen anytime soon.

Just read your lost. Cash, building access, and a drivers license are the only three. Your business cards should be in contacts (that's what I do with mine)- and the reward cards , insurance card, passes will eventually be in passbook or an alternative app.

The cash can be eliminated (Although I prefer cash- and will continue to use).

The buildingi access is unique to a tiny minority

The big hold up is drivers license. As if the government will be fast to adopt technology. Hah!

Your SS card in your wallet? Brave man....

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #91 of 100

They might do a BLE + AuthenTec scan for secure mobile payments. Perhaps, also some form of NFC protocols could work with the other hardware. I didn't take a look at their NFC patents, so not sure if they fit in. But think about it, including an iPad, Apple could provide an end-to-end hardware and retail application solution where the traditional cash register or NFC terminal are replaced with iPad.

 

Many, many businesses large and small would go for that solution, with iWallet and iCloud tying it all together. They have the big data centers for retailers huge data processing needs-all big boost for iPhone and iPad. Even without acting as financial middlemen, they could make far more money per consumer transaction than Amazon. And completely shut Surface and RT out of the retail management game.

 

It's the ecosystem, not any one product. With any good inventory management applications, any retailer could run their own business very well-from stocking to checkout with just an iPhone (for inventory scanning, etc), iPad (for front end payment processing and inventory management) a few apps, and a cash drawer. All the consumer needs is an iPhone or iPad.

 

Everywhere I look, I see WIN. 

For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
For your sake, I hope you're right.
Reply
post #92 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

 

I removed some parts of your message that are not related to factual points I can validate (or invalidate) authoritatively.

 

2. With respect to Bluetooth security, there is a problem, no excuses.  I'm not interested in going into the lengthy details -- do your own homework.  You don't have to believe that I know a lot about Bluetooth as well as cryptosecurity, but it is the truth.

 

3. Authentec was sold for its assets, below the cost of investment.  This is generally understood as a fire sale, but maybe you have a different understanding.  The technology isn't bad (it's good), but the point here is that biometrics acquirable via finger sensors are not sufficiently unique as to be used for unique ids.

 

7. When a connection is established over BT, it can be secure.  The discovery aspect is not secure, because it works by the slave advertising to the master.  Intrinsically secure comms are all listen-before-talk.

 

Finally, there are a lot of clever ways to make an antenna.  Again, you don't have to believe that I know a lot about antennas, but it is the truth.  :)

 

My points can be validated you simply chose to ignore the facts.
 
2.  Evidence?
 
3.  Evidence?
 
7.  False.  "Intrinsically secure comms are all listen-before-talk."
 
post #93 of 100
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
I carry cash, drivers license, company building access, AMEX, VISA, Debit, AAA, health insurance, SS card, mass transit pass, grocery store membership, auto insurance ID, a couple business cards, laundry ticket and a few miscellaneous paper receipts. When I travel I also have a passports so I switch everything into a different wallet large enough for the passport.

 

No wallet...Yeah right.rolleyes.gif Like that's gonna happen anytime soon.

 

All of that sans driver's license is replaced by PassBook and a new purchasing system. I don't see what your issue is.


Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
That's great for people who don't drive. While I can see my insurance card and rewards cards being in passbook- I don't see my drivers license.

 

Yet.

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply
post #94 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

All of that sans driver's license is replaced by PassBook and a new purchasing system. I don't see what your issue is.

 

Yet.

Please keep us up to date as each of those specialty cards, passports, and ID becomes available in Passbook.

 

I really don't see this wallet-less society taking off for many, many years.

 

Actually you don't even need a drivers license on your person because you have a certain number of days to present one if you are issued a citation for driving without it as long as you have ID on you.

 

I know cash is sort of a nostalgic notion however you are just plain stupid if you don't keep cash on you while living in CA. If we have an earthquake that takes the power out, you could be a millionaire however you can't even buy a drink of water when the electricity goes out unless you have cash. The last time that happen though, many merchants couldn't accept cash either because the cash register drawer wouldn't open although we found a wine store that had a manual override so we bought water and wine too. FYI always keep your car gas tank at half full or better. The same thing can happen with wildfires, you can lose electricity even miles away from the fire sometimes.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #95 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Your SS card in your wallet? Brave man....

One of my most treasured possessions. I know it sounds stupid but I have my reasons.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #96 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

My points can be validated you simply chose to ignore the facts.

 

Whatever.  I'm not interested in teaching you 12 years of theory and industry experience in an internet forum.  Take it or leave it, I really don't care.

Cat: the other white meat
Reply
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
post #97 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

All of that sans driver's license is replaced by PassBook and a new purchasing system. I don't see what your issue is.

 

Yet.

It's a nice idea, but in reality about as likely as the paperless offices we were all promised.  The potential exists, but it's a significant change management issue to realize.

post #98 of 100

I don't think we will just straight to completely walletless 100% of the time right away.  But it would be a nice step.  I would say for most people 90% of the time all you would need to carry with you would be your keys and your phone.  Leave your license and car insurance card in your vehicle.  Carry the other stuff with only when needed.  Why carry a bunch of receipts around every day when you only need them if you need to return something, or pick something up.  Leave them at home until you need them.

post #99 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

 

Whatever.  I'm not interested in teaching you 12 years of theory and industry experience in an internet forum.  Take it or leave it, I really don't care.

 

You didn't provide any evidence supporting your statements nor confirm or refute any statement I made including those statements which can be easily confirmed.
 
Your "experience" is extremely suspect as anyone can see for themselves.
 
post #100 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


Just read your lost. Cash, building access, and a drivers license are the only three. Your business cards should be in contacts (that's what I do with mine)- and the reward cards , insurance card, passes will eventually be in passbook or an alternative app.
The cash can be eliminated (Although I prefer cash- and will continue to use).
The buildingi access is unique to a tiny minority
The big hold up is drivers license. As if the government will be fast to adopt technology. Hah!
Your SS card in your wallet? Brave man....


Well, I'm another that isn't so high on NFC. I need to carry some cash, Drivers lic, insurance card, building access and at least ONE credit/debit card... oh and that lucky $2 bill in the back of my wallet. I actually just carry a small leather credit card wallet.

 

Ideally it would be great if more places utilized NFC, but there aren't too many that I actually frequent that do. McDonalds? Local Chicken fast-food Shop? Maybe some gas stations? Except for Gas, I wouldn't find a need for it.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple's next iPhone not expected to feature NFC technology