Google Wallet functionality expanding to counter Apple's Passbook

I disappoint when I heard the next iPhone would not include NFC. I have this vision of a future where I can wave my phone at things to make purchases or identify myself but adoption of this technology has been slow going.  It won't be until Apple gets fully behind NFC that it will take off IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalclips 

Gosh, what a shock!
What would Android users do without Apple for their R & D?

You say this as if Google doesn't already have Wallet. Expanding to compete is not the same thing as copying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkart4 

I disappoint when I heard the next iPhone would not include NFC. I have this vision of a future where I can wave my phone at things to make purchases or identify myself but adoption of this technology has been slow going.  It won't be until Apple gets fully behind NFC that it will take off IMO.

more like unlock phone, wave, enter pin

cool for geeks because it involves tech but in the end passbook is a lot better for us normal folk

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanl 

You say this as if Google doesn't already have Wallet. Expanding to compete is not the same thing as copying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider 

Google has revealed plans to enhance its Wallet service with location-aware store cards, boarding passes and event tickets, much like the Passbook feature found in Apple's forthcoming iOS 6 iPhone update.
 

I guess "much like" and copy mean different things then??  Remember, it is the Android crowd that says Apple is more or less playing catch up to Android so when it is the other way around, there are excuses....

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


It's more complex than that. I think it was the first Nexus that shipped with NFC HW but no SW or APIs. What's the point of that? 

The first couple rounds of Nexus phones were primarily targeted at developers so it makes sense to add the hardware you want developers working on software support for.  Just had this realization: I guess the Google Nexus isn't a developer device anymore since carriers are selling it.

"Google" and "Wallet" in the same sentence sounds a little . . . ominous. 

I'm beginning to hate Google more and more.  75% is because of 'spying' on me, 25% because of things like this.  Unfortunately, I'm sort of "stuck" with gmail.  But I use it on my iPhone mail app, and on my iMac mail client, so at least I don't have to see the pesky ads.  I've also turned on privacy in Safari and do my best to avoid Google as a search engine.

On topic, though, is anyone surprised, really?  Apple has been doing Google/Android's R & D since about 2007...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

But that isn't all that is needed. With a payment system you need a services infrastructure to make it functional. This means buying companies and/or getting partners so you can have support outside your device. Using your iPhone for secure payments is coming! Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon... and for the rest of your life.

Could not agree more about infrastructure but I don't think we're that far behind.  I work in Philly, not Tokyo obviously but as major American city's go I think it's fairly tech forward and I see infrastructure for automated payment popping up all the time.  I use my RFID transit card to get into the city, I'll grab a coffee and pay with my starbucks app, I'll pay for lunch with my LevelUp app(another QR code based system) and those credit card "blink" kiosks at grocery and convenient stores are becoming ubiquitous enough.  

We just need a force as inspiring and visionary as Apple to bring this payment world together.  No small feat for sure but I believe in the power of the Apple brand and the influence it can yield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by al_bundy 

more like unlock phone, wave, enter pin

 

cool for geeks because it involves tech but in the end passbook is a lot better for us normal folk

But...combine this with the rumors of the biometric fingerprint reader and this advances to: put finger on home button, wave....profit

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider 

 Dua said. "That's the goal. We want you to be able to leave your leather wallet at home and carry your phone and transact with that as your primary transaction device."

The main reason I carry a leather wallet is because it contains my drivers license.

Apple came roaring back to life by patiently waiting and then creating a simple, elegant solution (the iPod) that crushed a herd of overly-complicated, clunky, frustrating mp3 players.

I'm willing to wait for the herd of overly-complicated, clunky, frustrating mobile payment systems to gather ... let Apple learn, better-design, and then deliver a unified, simple NFC/wallet system and crush once again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanl 

You say this as if Google doesn't already have Wallet. Expanding to compete is not the same thing as copying.

By definition if I'm your competitor, then I must have released similar product(s). Competition wouldn't exist if companies didn't copy each other.

All the original poster is saying is that many companies wait for Apple to act before doing it themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkart4 

But...combine this with the rumors of the biometric fingerprint reader and this advances to: put finger on home button, wave....profit

You beat me to it! That is precisely how it will be implemented, and it is probably the most secure along with most simple way to do it. It may take Apple longer to implement technologies like this, but when they do they get it right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadra 610 

"Google" and "Wallet" in the same sentence sounds a little . . . ominous. 

Yes. We've already seen how they act when they just have access to your browsing history.

Imagine what'll they'll be willing to do to with access to your financial and spending history...

Quote:

Originally Posted by enjourni 

 

By definition if I'm your competitor, then I must have released similar product(s). Competition wouldn't exist if companies didn't copy each other.

 

All the original poster is saying is that many companies wait for Apple to act before doing it themselves.

Had to finally join AI after years of reading it. I'm tired of all the left out info AI doesn't include in their posts. Google wallet has had rewards cards, and coupons that are all location aware for a long time now. This article is horribly misleading. Google just limited it to a test area of SF and now they are readying an expansion to new Retailers and locations. There are not adding any new functionally to the app that I've had and used for a year now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill60 

 

The main reason I carry a leather wallet is because it contains my drivers license.

Boom! http://www.case-mate.com/iPhone-4-Cases/Case-Mate-iPhone-4-4S-ID-Credit-Card-Cases.asp

Xerox is really making out on the mobile revolution. There's a whole lotta copying machines running overtime in Mountain View!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


Apple buying that biometrics company has me wondering what it will be used for. I can't imagine that the main way to access your device is to use biometrics. It's just too insecure in and of itself.
I then thought of a smart remote for an Apple TV/HDTV that would auto-sense which user was controlling the remote by who picked it up and then adjust the channel line up, favorites, and recorded shows accordingly. As great that sounds it seems a little too far fetched for the not-to-distant future.
I wonder if this is for an additional level of security for NFC. The items in your wallet are insecure. Your name and number are printed on everything for anyone to see. Money is even less secure because it's not tied to your by the serial numbers and when it's gone you'll be hard pressed to know where it went if stolen. NFC offers that short-distance secure loop.
Now, even though this is more secure than a CC even at this level because you have the potential to destroy your phone's personal data but not your CC's personal data if you don't have it on your person people are typically afraid of new technology they don't fully grasp. We saw the same thing with ATM, credit and debit cards. Long before that we saw the same thing with personal cheques over cash.
What if Apple is planning to stem the fear by offering a finger print scanner on the iPhone. This gives a sense of choosing to use a digital payment but having some control over the action (you could also use a PIN, if you wanted). The problem with biometrics, especially fingerprints is that so far they've been easy to fake, but people tend to be rational about technology.
So what real world good would it offer? Consider the most likely case of an iPhone being stolen isn't something pulling an Ocean's 11 heist but a crime of opportunity where the thief would rather try to guess your PIN or ignore it all together rather than track you down, get you to hold a glass, then use CSI: Las Vegas-style forensics to get superglue vapors to stick between the oils in the print to recreate your arches, loops and whorls. You' have plenty of time to have your device wiped in a secure way. Certainly more time than it would take cancel your CCs before a theif read the numbers and name on the card.

Interesting ideas.  For these and other reasons, it makes more sense to me that they will integrate that finger scanning technology into the main screen and not the home button, especially if they go for bluetooth instead of NFC as has been suggested lately.  

The key will be making the customer feel safe and feel like they know what's going on.  Just waving your phone at a cash register and waiting for a beep, while hoping that it's secure (without any visual feedback that it is to the customer), is nerve wracking for a lot of folks and might even be slowing adoption of the technology.  

If a dialogue to pop up saying that "Starbucks wants your money" or words to that effect, throwing up a fingerprint scanner on the screen, complete with skeuomorphic fingerprint images etc. would be a great way to make the customer feel more secure and to feel like they have some kind of security and control over same.  

Integrating it into the screen would also possibly allow for the phone to be able to tell the difference between real fingers and styluses/sausages, or if the person who just picked it up wasn't the owner.  

Google isn't the company in jeopardy of course. They can copy anything they want from Apple. Since they don't actually sell Android to end-users, it's only the OEMs that have to forfeit their profits to Apple. Google doesn't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystigo 

Google isn't the company in jeopardy of course. They can copy anything they want from Apple. Since they don't actually sell Android to end-users, it's only the OEMs that have to forfeit their profits to Apple. Google doesn't care.

There is no possible way you can say this unless you never used one of google's phones. And by google's phones I mean the nexus line of phones because those are the only android phones google has a say in. There is almost nothing in common between a Galaxy Nexus and an iPhone.

Edit: And BTW Google does sell phones and tablets direct to the end user. That's how I got mine then just popped in my old sim card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz 


Even when Apple implements something that is ridiculously inspired by Android (notification pulldown) it isn't a 'copy' somehow...

Who was Google ridiculously "inspired" more by?

Drop downs in OSX and before that MacOS, the Newton, jailbroken iPhones, WebOS, WinMo or Symbian?

Besides with Android being "open", Apple has just as much right to use it, how ever they want, in much the same way as Google uses WebKit.

Which begs the question:-

Is Android's "openness" a marketing lie?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz 

Even when Apple implements something that is ridiculously inspired by Android (notification pulldown) it isn't a 'copy' somehow...

You mean Apple can't copy what the thief originally stole and calls open source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill60 

 

Who was Google ridiculously "inspired" more by?

 

Drop downs in OSX and before that MacOS, the Newton, jailbroken iPhones, WebOS, WinMo or Symbian?

 

Besides with Android being "open", Apple has just as much right to use it, how ever they want, in much the same way as Google uses WebKit.

 

Which begs the question:-

 

Is Android's "openness" a marketing lie?

Android's open source license requires acknowledging the source. Apple has not done that and is therefore in violation of google's work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


The problem with biometrics, especially fingerprints is that so far they've been easy to fake, but people tend to be rational about technology.
So what real world good would it offer? Consider the most likely case of an iPhone being stolen isn't something pulling an Ocean's 11 heist but a crime of opportunity where the thief would rather try to guess your PIN or ignore it all together rather than track you down, get you to hold a glass, then use CSI: Las Vegas-style forensics to get superglue vapors to stick between the oils in the print to recreate your arches, loops and whorls. You' have plenty of time to have your device wiped in a secure way. Certainly more time than it would take cancel your CCs before a theif read the numbers and name on the card.

Like you said, unless you own a few Vegas casinos and have some very crafty enemies out there, there is nothing to worry about when it comes to biometrics verification on a phone. Especially if you have watched the video produced by AuthenTec, the company Apple bought, that shows their RF technology for actually pulling the finger print from the second layer of skin. That would be extremely difficult to duplicate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NexusPhan 

Android's open source license requires acknowledging the source. Apple has not done that and is therefore in violation of google's work.

New one on the radar...watch this space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffDM 


Isn't that just a source code licence? If Apple their implementation without anyone else's source code, then such acknowledgement may not be necessary. If it's a violation of a design patent or utility, then that's a different matter.

I'm not really sure how the fine details work. You may very well be correct. I'd be pissed at google if they used it to sue tho (Google has a patent on it BTW so I'm not sure how open source applies when Google has a patent).

Edit: Here is the link to portion of Google's patent for reference. (Don't know how to use hyperlinks here - sorry)

http://www.phonearena.com/image.php?m=Articles.Images&f=name&id=54227&name=nb.png&caption=Google+filed+a+patent+for+its+Notification+Bar+back+in+January+2009&title=Image+from+%22Google+filed+for+patent+on+Notification+Bar+in+2009%2C+patent+still+pending%22&kw=&popup=1

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


It's more complex than that. I think it was the first Nexus that shipped with NFC HW but no SW or APIs. What's the point of that? With Apple you won't get HW unless there are SW to support it, and if they want it to be available for devs they will include APIs.
But that isn't all that is needed. With a payment system you need a services infrastructure to make it functional. This means buying companies and/or getting partners so you can have support outside your device. Using your iPhone for secure payments is coming! Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon... and for the rest of your life.

I had one of the Nexus with the chip and software was available, BUT only if your carrier supported it and mine didn't so 
Google would allow me to download it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

 

Interesting ideas.  For these and other reasons, it makes more sense to me that they will integrate that finger scanning technology into the main screen and not the home button, especially if they go for bluetooth instead of NFC as has been suggested lately.  

 

The key will be making the customer feel safe and feel like they know what's going on.  Just waving your phone at a cash register and waiting for a beep, while hoping that it's secure (without any visual feedback that it is to the customer), is nerve wracking for a lot of folks and might even be slowing adoption of the technology.  

 

If a dialogue to pop up saying that "Starbucks wants your money" or words to that effect, throwing up a fingerprint scanner on the screen, complete with skeuomorphic fingerprint images etc. would be a great way to make the customer feel more secure and to feel like they have some kind of security and control over same.  

 

Integrating it into the screen would also possibly allow for the phone to be able to tell the difference between real fingers and styluses/sausages, or if the person who just picked it up wasn't the owner.  

the biometrics is the a fairly compelling 2nd factor, especially if it's heptatic, rather than just pressure/surface.   However, as a single factor a fingerprint scanner is a bit too much, but coupled with action receipts, and possible biometrics, like facial recognition or location verification (Starbucks already has facial recognition in play in their more high volume shops, and are coupling with location services to confirm (sort of like the Scorese ad... "Is that Rick?"  and use 'find my friends to confirm' (2nd factor)), it provides a compelling, 'yeah, pretty darn sure you're the one who owns this device')

and to answer another question... Visa makes 2-5% per transaction from the vendor.  PoS vendors want to eliminate credit cards, checks and cash, as that's the limiting factor in a transaction (few er baristas handling transactions the better), and bypassing Visa on small transactions is a big win).  If Starbucks et al, can develop coupons or debit programs (fill your 'account up' online at home), and your 'buyer's card is in your passbook/wallet, then it's a swipe and go (like my bus pass).  Apple wins (say gets 1% per transaction, plus people buying their phone if it's insanely great), Starbucks wins (saves labor costs, and saves 1-4% of real cash from avoiding merchant card services), and Visa... well, sucks to be disintermediated at these <$10 purchases, where they are making a a ton of cash... but on the other hand... you look at them, they probably want to offload their network of this stuff, to lower their growth costs.

So... an experience like.

Enter Starbucks

Location services sees you're in starbucks and notifies you "want something to drink' and brings up your 'preferred' beverages and any instore specials.

you click on what you want as you wait in line

you walk up to the counter, barista say, 'The Other Geoff, I see you want a half caf double mocha and sprinkles'  you confirm/augment

The NFC/BLuetooth activates a 'payment' call, your phone pops up a 'pay now?... swipe finger' and you do

Starbucks debits your customer account, and you get an notification of the bill on your phone, (and an email daily of your activity).

'Next... Oh hi Tallest, you wanted a double shot of expresso with tobasco....<click> 'ready to pay?'   okay?  Next...'

Faster service, fewer baristas, less money changing hands, no credit cards changing hands.... this is a key item... MiTM info capture... if all that is being sent is an encrypted token encrypted in Starbucks public key (on my phone) and inside of that my AppleID private key (that they use to verify 'me'), all of a sudden, Starbucks has lowered the threat of one of their employees skimming your credit card info.

It's a big win.... once critical mass is there for 'tap' devices.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by icoco3 

 

 

I guess "much like" and copy mean different things then??  Remember, it is the Android crowd that says Apple is more or less playing catch up to Android so when it is the other way around, there are excuses....

It's a sad day when people on here take these stories wording and run with it. If there is any copying going on here it is Apple who copied Google... Google announced the features way before passbook ever existed.... SMH... AppleInsider should do some research before creating this kind of post...

Google Blog post RE these features on 5/26/2011.

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/coming-soon-make-your-phone-your-wallet.html

iOS 6 announced on 6/11/2012.

"Because Google Wallet is a mobile app, it will do more than a regular wallet ever could. You'll be able to store your credit cards, offers, loyalty cards and gift cards, but without the bulk. When you tap to pay, your phone will also automatically redeem offers and earn loyalty points for you. Someday, even things like boarding passes, tickets, ID and keys could be stored in Google Wallet."