Google Wallet functionality expanding to counter Apple's Passbook - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty 

It's a sad day when people on here take these stories wording and run with it. If there is any copying going on here it is Apple who copied Google... Google announced the features way before passbook ever existed.... SMH... AppleInsider should do some research before creating this kind of post...

 

Google Blog post RE these features on 5/26/2011.

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/coming-soon-make-your-phone-your-wallet.html

iOS 6 announced on 6/11/2012.

 

"Because Google Wallet is a mobile app, it will do more than a regular wallet ever could. You'll be able to store your credit cards, offers, loyalty cards and gift cards, but without the bulk. When you tap to pay, your phone will also automatically redeem offers and earn loyalty points for you. Someday, even things like boarding passes, tickets, ID and keys could be stored in Google Wallet."

Of course if you spend 5 seconds Googling about Apple Patents related to Passbook, you will see they have several recently granted that were all filed in 2008.  2008 is just a smidge before 2011.  Apple does tend to patent early, tweak internally until things are close to where they want them, then start making announcements about them.  Google talked about theirs first and implemented it in a barebones method w/plans to add more later.  If Apple does NFC w/the new iPhone, expect it to be much more full featured out of the gate

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBook Pro 

 

I have not seen a video from AuthenTec describing their technology.  Would you mind providing a link?  I know the AuthenTec claimed previous versions of their technology had .001% false positive rates (1 in 100,000 chance) although there appears to be a paucity of technical information available.

 

I was mistakenly thinking of a different video, but the link to the article about the technology is here:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/16/authentec_smart_sensor_appears_key_to_apples_urgent_acquisition.html

What exactly is the purpose of paying with your phone as opposed to regular credit card?

I have a bunch of special cards in my wallet so I can't see getting rid of it.

It will be a long, long time before EVERYTHING is digitized.

How long before you can confidently leave the house with no credit cards or cash? 3 years, 5 years, 10 years?

If you don't carry your credit cards then you have to leave them at home. Where do you keep them? In a safe? Under your pillow? They are a lot safer in my wallet.

Retailers are in the same position. What do they do? Do they have a Google machine, an Apple machine plus credit card machine plus cash? That is a lot of infrastructure just to receive a payment. What is their motivation to install the infrastructure?

Is this going to turn out like the HD DVD, BlueRay battle until one system prevails?

It is all nice to dream of a seamless convenient payment system but the reality is, it is going to be a confusing mess before we get there.

I'm not really buying this idea that paying with a phone will be more convenient, more secure or better in any way whatsoever. 

If you are worried about privacy you certainly should not be advocating the obsolescence of cash.

Personally I'm not too concerned about the bank knowing where I purchased something because the merchant doesn't send the information about what I purchased, so the bank has very limited tracking info about my purchases. Plus the bank doesn't sell merchandise in the same way that Apple does so they really don't care what I buy unless it is a house. I'm not sure how the e-wallet concept works but I would suspect they would try to capture the items purchased if possible.

The original idea in Japan was to buy a single item from a vending machine and have the payment go onto your phone bill. That was convenient since half the time you would not have the correct change or the paper money would be wrinkled or whatever. Another convenient example is mass transit, but again it is a single item being purchased not a cart full. The thing about shopping at a store where you select multiple things from the shelf and put it in your cart is that you do need to check out. No merchant is going to let you just walk out of the store without inspecting your shopping cart. If you are going to be checking out anyway what difference does it make how you pay? There is no added convenience to use your phone. In fact it is an added inconvenience for the merchant. 

Sorry. Just rambling through some obvious issues with the concept of paying with a phone.

Sure it is not such a bad idea to keep things like coupons and boarding passes etc but payments in general seems problematic to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone 

The thing about shopping at a store where you select multiple things from the shelf and put it in your cart is that you do need to check out. No merchant is going to let you just walk out of the store without inspecting your shopping cart. If you are going to be checking out anyway what difference does it make how you pay? There is no added convenience to use your phone. In fact it is an added inconvenience for the merchant. 

My last several trips to the Apple Store say otherwise.  Buying a keyboard one trip and a case for my iPhone 4S another, I just went and found what I wanted, used the Apple Store app and entered my password and walked right out.  Added convenience for me?  Not waiting at a register or for an employee to help me.  Added convenience for merchant? One less customer to be in a line.  The only information I had to provide was my password for my Apple ID, b/c my credit card number was already housed in a safe environment.  Many similarities to NFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone 

What exactly is the purpose of paying with your phone as opposed to regular credit card?

 

I have a bunch of special cards in my wallet so I can't see getting rid of it.

 

It will be a long, long time before EVERYTHING is digitized.

 

How long before you can confidently leave the house with no credit cards or cash? 3 years, 5 years, 10 years?

 

If you don't carry your credit cards then you have to leave them at home. Where do you keep them? In a safe? Under your pillow? They are a lot safer in my wallet.

 

Retailers are in the same position. What do they do? Do they have a Google machine, an Apple machine plus credit card machine plus cash? That is a lot of infrastructure just to receive a payment. What is their motivation to install the infrastructure?

 

Is this going to turn out like the HD DVD, BlueRay battle until one system prevails?

 

It is all nice to dream of a seamless convenient payment system but the reality is, it is going to be a confusing mess before we get there.

 

I'm not really buying this idea that paying with a phone will be more convenient, more secure or better in any way whatsoever. 

 

If you are worried about privacy you certainly should not be advocating the obsolescence of cash.

 

Personally I'm not too concerned about the bank knowing where I purchased something because the merchant doesn't send the information about what I purchased, so the bank has very limited tracking info about my purchases. Plus the bank doesn't sell merchandise in the same way that Apple does so they really don't care what I buy unless it is a house. I'm not sure how the e-wallet concept works but I would suspect they would try to capture the items purchased if possible.

 

The original idea in Japan was to buy a single item from a vending machine and have the payment go onto your phone bill. That was convenient since half the time you would not have the correct change or the paper money would be wrinkled or whatever. Another convenient example is mass transit, but again it is a single item being purchased not a cart full. The thing about shopping at a store where you select multiple things from the shelf and put it in your cart is that you do need to check out. No merchant is going to let you just walk out of the store without inspecting your shopping cart. If you are going to be checking out anyway what difference does it make how you pay? There is no added convenience to use your phone. In fact it is an added inconvenience for the merchant. 

 

Sorry. Just rambling through some obvious issues with the concept of paying with a phone.

 

Sure it is not such a bad idea to keep things like coupons and boarding passes etc but payments in general seems problematic to me.

You make many valid points. I really hope the next iPhone has NFC. This will help speed growth of NFC accepted locations. The standard is already there. Its the NFC + card reader in one. In fact, new card readers can only be bought NFC enabled. Many retailers don't accept it tho (you will often see them with a black curved bar above the signature pad without any labels on them). Discover uses their ZIP cards (NFC) MasterCard uses NFC. Google wallet uses NFC. T-Mobil, Verizon and AT&T have all backed ISIS which is coming to android soon. All of there can already be used at existing credit card terminals with NFC. All meijer locations accept it and that is where I buy my gas and groceries and lawn items and everything. I have a new small clip that has only cash and my ID. Apple needs to get on board. Its going to be here even if Apple is not ready to accept it yet.

Edit: What I like most is how Google Wallet keeps track of everything. I have 3 cards loaded on there that I can switch at any time. It shows your GPS location and guesses what store you're in, date time and amount with every purchase. You can add notes and comments and reminders. Its fantastic and I'm hoping Apple does something even more amazing with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSquirrel 

 

My last several trips to the Apple Store say otherwise.  Buying a keyboard one trip and a case for my iPhone 4S another, I just went and found what I wanted, used the Apple Store app and entered my password and walked right out.  Added convenience for me?  Not waiting at a register or for an employee to help me.  Added convenience for merchant? One less customer to be in a line.  The only information I had to provide was my password for my Apple ID, b/c my credit card number was already housed in a safe environment.  Many similarities to NFC

That sounds very convenient, but personally it would take me a while to get used to this.  I would feel so uneasy just walking into a store picking up merchandise and leaving.  Even though I know that I paid, in the back of my mind, I would almost feel like a shoplifter.  I feel a need for a human being to acknowledge the sale.  I can't adequately explain it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill60 

 

Who was Google ridiculously "inspired" more by?

 

Drop downs in OSX and before that MacOS, the Newton, jailbroken iPhones, WebOS, WinMo or Symbian?

 

Besides with Android being "open", Apple has just as much right to use it, how ever they want, in much the same way as Google uses WebKit.

 

Which begs the question:-

 

Is Android's "openness" a marketing lie?

webkit is licensed differently than android and android is made of code that falls under different licenses. go read.

Originally Posted by apple joy 
webkit is licensed differently than android and android is made of code that falls under different licenses. go read.

Ah, so "open source" can be less open than other open source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Ah, so "open source" can be less open than other open source.

possibly. but people think that android = motorola patents. which is not the case. motorola had those same patents before google bought them. in fact motorola insinuated they might start litigation against android/google and others before google bought that company. one reason google bought them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diplication 

That sounds very convenient, but personally it would take me a while to get used to this.  I would feel so uneasy just walking into a store picking up merchandise and leaving.  Even though I know that I paid, in the back of my mind, I would almost feel like a shoplifter.  I feel a need for a human being to acknowledge the sale.  I can't adequately explain it.

When I bought the keyboard, after the receipt showed on my phone, I tried getting someone's attaention on my way out, but they were all busy w/other customers.  No alarms went off.  The next time, I had actually been asking a question about a couple of cases and she asked if I was ready to get run up and Isaid "nah I got it" and we talked about how nice the app was :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSquirrel 

 

When I bought the keyboard, after the receipt showed on my phone, I tried getting someone's attaention on my way out, but they were all busy w/other customers.  No alarms went off.  The next time, I had actually been asking a question about a couple of cases and she asked if I was ready to get run up and Isaid "nah I got it" and we talked about how nice the app was :)

Did she show you the secret place under the tables where they keep the shopping bags so you can help yourself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty 

iOS 6 announced on 6/11/2012.

 

"Because Google Wallet is a mobile app, it will do more than a regular wallet ever could. You'll be able to store your credit cards, offers, loyalty cards and gift cards, but without the bulk. When you tap to pay, your phone will also automatically redeem offers and earn loyalty points for you. Someday, even things like boarding passes, tickets, ID and keys could be stored in Google Wallet."

"If you believe "Patently Apple," a website dedicated to describing every new patent Apple is granted, a mobile wallet has been in the works since 2009.  Certainly the company has been granted numerous patents governing everything from NFC to Micro SIM chip slots to wallet applications. "

"The patent makes extensive references to the use of NFC technology as well as to both payments and loyalty cards and is already leading to renewed speculation regarding Apple's plans for NFC."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty 

It's a sad day when people on here take these stories wording and run with it. If there is any copying going on here it is Apple who copied Google... Google announced the features way before passbook ever existed.... SMH... AppleInsider should do some research before creating this kind of post...

 

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by NexusPhan 

Android's open source license requires acknowledging the source. Apple has not done that and is therefore in violation of google's work.

Apple does acknowledge the works of Google which they are using, it's in Settings>General>About>License.

Google's work is acknowledged under Maps and Youtube which iOS uses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz 


For starters Android existed before WebOS...
Second, show me where Android's pull down notification tray existed in a product that existed before Android did.

1983

Quote:

Originally Posted by icoco3 

 

New one on the radar...watch this space.

Google only sends their best and brightest here. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalclips 

Gosh, what a shock!
What would Android users do without Apple for their R & D?

Probably this:

Originally Posted by hill60 
1983

He so won't accept that. 

"Experimental Twiggy"… That's something else, right there.

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton 
Google only sends their best and brightest here. 

Do… their shareholders know about this? 

"Probably", nothin'!

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 
I was looking or a System 1 pic showing the Menu Bar drop downs but couldn't find any.
PS: I think it's time you updated to a more modern Mac. :D

 

Or, given the icons and application names, to a Mac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I was looking or a System 1 pic showing the Menu Bar drop downs but couldn't find any.
PS: I think it's time you updated to a more modern Mac. :D

Black AND white is more than enough colours for anyone.

That method is the roots of what Apple is using, now let's check Google's patent:-

"Claims

Source

The patent goes on to further describe how Google's specific method involves using icons in the status bar and replacing existing icons in the status bar, to indicate notifications in the pull down menu.

Too bad iOS DOES NOT DO THIS, or Google's pending patent might be infringed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

Or, given the icons and application names, to a Mac.

Well spotted, it's a Lisa.

Wait a minute, how doesn't it do the bolded? And the italicized is how iPhone OS used to exclusively (and still can, by choice) function. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NexusPhan 

Android's open source license requires acknowledging the source.

Yup, just ask Oracle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Wait a minute, how doesn't it do the bolded? And the italicized is how iPhone OS used to exclusively (and still can, by choice) function. 

Replacing things such as network, battery, time and other indicators in the status bar, with icons indicating notifications in the pull down notification menu.

Nope iPhones don't do it, my Galaxy Nexus does, every Android handset I've used also does it, little icons like envelopes, messages updates, downloads all sorts of things, here's a picture, top left corner shows the icons.

Originally Posted by hill60 
Replacing things such as network, battery, time and other indicators in the status bar, with icons indicating notifications in the pull down notification menu.

Ah! I see… Now, is that a persistent-until-viewed badge like iOS' on the Springboard, or does it fade away from the Status Bar after a time?

If the latter, an argument could be made that Apple's popup notifications at the top of the screen fit that bill. Note that I'm not commenting on how strong said argument would be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasanman69 


Those aren't notifications nor is it pull down. Good try though. And do not give me that zero length swipe crap.

So why don't you tell us about the icons in the status bar, which form the basis of Google's patent application and how these are specifically indicated in iOS.

Seeing as iOS does not do this at all, knock yourself out.

Here's the patent again in case you missed the link before:-

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090249247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Ah! I see… Now, is that a persistent-until-viewed badge like iOS' on the Springboard, or does it fade away from the Status Bar after a time?

 

If the latter, an argument could be made that Apple's popup notifications at the top of the screen fit that bill. Note that I'm not commenting on how strong said argument would be.

They persist until you go into the drop down menu and action them, say you pulled down the menu and only dismissed some of them, the others would remain in the status bar.

Originally Posted by hill60 
They persist until you go into the drop down menu and action them, say you pulled down the menu and only dismissed some of them, the others would remain in the status bar.

Thanks for the clarification. So that's wholly unlike Apple's popups, then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Thanks for the clarification. So that's wholly unlike Apple's popups, then.

Yes, a quick read through the patent shows just how important the icons in the status bar are to Google's specific implementation.

Apple could show it adapted the tech it created twentynine years ago to work with a finger instead of a mouse.

The only way Google could milk a win out of this one would be if a group of Android fanatic web posters lied their way into being selected on the jury.

Originally Posted by dasanman69 
First you tried to pull off comparing a click down menu to a pull down notification shade to icons in a status bar.

hill60 just reminded me of something I'm ashamed I'd forgotten. Pre-OS X, you had to hold the mouse button as you went through these menus. That's the same as a drag downward in the modern touch interface trays.

And you're all really making me want to make a "shade/blinding oneself" joke. I'd like to hold off on those until an actual lawsuit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasanman69 


Now your jumping all over the place. First you tried to pull off comparing a click down menu to a pull down notification shade to icons in a status bar. I don't see the connection and had I been a juror and you a Apple lawyer then you just failed in whatever claim it is you're trying to make. Plus there's no mention of "icons" in the patent so how could it be the basis of the patent?

Point 4 of Google's patent application:-

4. The method of claim 3, further comprising removing the text from the status bar after scrolling the text, and displaying in the status bar an icon that visually represents an application corresponding to the alert event.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090249247

PS if you hold your phone flat you aren't really pulling, dropping or clicking anything down, more across, along, towards.