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HTC has no intention to settle with Apple in wake of Samsung loss - Page 2

post #41 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post


I'm not really sure if you're being serious...

 

I'm absolutely serious.

 

Why are consumers forced to use a proprietary OS on a mobile phone? Dual core, quad core SoCs, GB(s) of RAM and GB(s) of storage.

 

Would you buy a MacBook if you knew that you'd be stuck on Mountain Lion and never able to upgrade? It's your laptop. You can install whatever you want on it. 

 

Our current model doesn't support this, and every two years, as contracts expire, we toss cell phones out the door and go buy a new model on contract. It's tremendously wasteful and completely unnecessary.

post #42 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Yeah, it's kind of tiresome to hear that "Apple is going to licence their stuff to Android" crap on every article lately.  

 

Apple has a long history in this regard, they almost always stick to the same rules and they haven't changed.  They even went on the record and in great detail about how they decide these sorts of issues during the recent trial.  

 

1) The bulk of their patents they are willing to licence to anyone that asks, basically on FRAND or close to FRANd terms. 

 

2) The cool things like gestures and tricky hardware things that no one else does, are simply not shared.  Ever. 

 

 

The one exception is that they were so fed up with Samsung's copying they actually offered to violate this long standing rule and licence the rubber-banding and so forth to Samsung.  That's how pissed they were and how anxious they were to avoid this trial.  

 

The idea that Apple is now going to be making the rounds asking for money from Android for their core stuff is laughable.  It won't happen and I wish Apple Insider would stop implying that it will.  


I disagree on only one of your points... they offered to license to Samsung because Samsung is a MASSIVE vendor to Apple on vital components to Apple.

post #43 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

When you make statements like that, are you willing to acknowledge what Apple took from Android, or will you pass that off as "prior art", "stolen from WebOS", "existed in XYZ", etc?

 

Do you really believe Apple above those statements? Where do you think the Notification Shade came from?

 

And did Google, in their infinite wisdom, patent its precursor to Notification Shade?

 

Or did Google just push out an update ASAP, cross their fingers, close their eyes, and say "Here goes nothing!"

Because that's what they seem to be doing most of the time.  "Legal shmegal.  Ship now, ask questions later."

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post #44 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

In what way and which one?

They took the playbook from Samsung and whatthey have with One series don't look like iOS now. Anyone still has older HTC, such as Sensation and Desire series, could you give it a whirl and get me up to speed?

AND, why Apple would bother with a minnow with iPhone 5 and iPad mini deadlines are this close. Can we come back at HTC after January Sales?

HTC had to remove the clickable phone number, meaning if in a text whether an email/web page/sms has a phone number in it, one used to be able to click on it and get a menu to either copy, call, or text. HTC had to remove that because it infringed on a Apple patent.
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post #45 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

And did Google, in their infinite wisdom, patent its precursor to Notification Shade?

Or did Google just push out an update ASAP, cross their fingers, close their eyes, and say "Here goes nothing!"
Because that's what they seem to be doing most of the time.  "Legal shmegal.  Ship now, ask questions later."

Patent pending
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post #46 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

I'm absolutely serious.

 

Why are consumers forced to use a proprietary OS on a mobile phone? Dual core, quad core SoCs, GB(s) of RAM and GB(s) of storage.

 

Would you buy a MacBook if you knew that you'd be stuck on Mountain Lion and never able to upgrade? It's your laptop. You can install whatever you want on it. 

 

Our current model doesn't support this, and every two years, as contracts expire, we toss cell phones out the door and go buy a new model on contract. It's tremendously wasteful and completely unnecessary.

But why Java-based feature phones don't have this problem and are being rebuilt and re-sold five or six times per handset today?

 

Nokia and Motorolla handsets can be rebuilt and sold and last up to 15-16 years before they have to be melted down fore materials. Can first-gen iPhone repeat that feat when we come back to take a look in 2022?

post #47 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

When you make statements like that, are you willing to acknowledge what Apple took from Android, or will you pass that off as "prior art", "stolen from WebOS", "existed in XYZ", etc?

 

Do you really believe Apple above those statements? Where do you think the Notification Shade came from?

 

I love how almost every pro-Android and anti-Apple innovation always come back to the 'notification bar. Fucking amazing. As if this ONE gesture, compared to the very concept of the modern smartphone and the millions of details, large and small, that have been 'inspired' by Apple's iPhone, makes it a wash or something. 

post #48 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

I love how almost every pro-Android and anti-Apple innovation always come back to the 'notification bar. Fucking amazing. As if this ONE gesture, compared to the very concept of the modern smartphone and the millions of details, large and small, that have been 'inspired' by Apple's iPhone, makes it a wash or something. 

 

What's the difference? It's a huge, glaring point stamped right on Apple: They took the Notification Bar from Android.

 

If you're going to make the arguments of "don't steal, don't copy, invent your own tech, etc." then you're being hypocritical because of that single instance. Any more would only further the point.
 

That's why you continue to hear it, and you'll continue to hear it--because it's a perfect example of hypocrisy.

post #49 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetMan View Post


I disagree on only one of your points... they offered to license to Samsung because Samsung is a MASSIVE vendor to Apple on vital components to Apple.

 

They're a massive component supplier for Apple at the moment.  But that can and will change over time.

Plenty of component makers out there (Sharp, TSMC, LG, etc.) willing to join the Apple gravy train.

 

And why would Apple want to wean itself off Samsung dependency?  Because they can't be trusted any more.  With anything.

If Apple asks Samsung's chip foundry to do a test run on a new Ax chip, the chip division will leak the specs to the mobile division.

If Apple asks Samsung's flat panel screen division to make a few prototypes, the screen division will leak the specs to the mobile division.

It would be like Apple giving their next-gen device specs to a competitor.  Their only successful competitor.  Bad idea.

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post #50 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I love how almost every pro-Android and anti-Apple innovation always come back to the 'notification bar. Fucking amazing. As if this ONE gesture, compared to the very concept of the modern smartphone and the millions of details, large and small, that have been 'inspired' by Apple's iPhone, makes it a wash or something. 

Can't blame them for using the little ammo they have.
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post #51 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

But why Java-based feature phones don't have this problem and are being rebuilt and re-sold five or six times per handset today?

 

Nokia and Motorolla handsets can be rebuilt and sold and last up to 15-16 years before they have to be melted down fore materials. Can first-gen iPhone repeat that feat when we come back to take a look in 2022?

 

Yeah, the concept is frustrating to me. The idea that we toss smartphones out every two years seems like a tremendous waste in my mind.

 

As an example, when Windows Phone 8 comes out, no Windows Phone 7 device will see the upgrade. That's terrible. Windows Phone 7 hardware is more than capable.

post #52 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Can't blame them for using the little ammo they have.

 

That's a nice way of skirting the issue.

 

Your sig is rather fitting. Do you consider it seriously before making statements like the one above?

post #53 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

They're a massive component supplier for Apple at the moment.  But that can and will change over time.
Plenty of component makers out there (Sharp, TSMC, LG, etc.) willing to join the Apple gravy train.

And why would Apple want to wean itself off Samsung dependency?  Because they can't be trusted any more.  With anything.
If Apple asks Samsung's chip foundry to do a test run on a new Ax chip, the chip division will leak the specs to the mobile division.
If Apple asks Samsung's flat panel screen division to make a few prototypes, the screen division will leak the specs to the mobile division.
It would be like Apple giving their next-gen device specs to a competitor.  Their only successful competitor.  Bad idea.

And what would stop LG and Sharp from doing the same?
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post #54 of 151

Warm up the lawyers. And don't forget the Mountain View Ad Company.

post #55 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

That's a nice way of skirting the issue.

Your sig is rather fitting. Do you consider it seriously before making statements like the one above?

How is that skirting the issue? You asked a question and I gave a very reasonable answer.
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post #56 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


How is that skirting the issue? You asked a question and I gave a very reasonable answer.

 

You said, "Can't blame them for using what little ammo they have."

 

Skirting the issue is saying, "You know what, this point doesn't matter, because for whatever reason, it's inconsequential."

 

You cannot make statements like "don't copy/steal, innovate on your own, etc." and simply ignore Apple taking the Notification Shade from Android.

post #57 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

You said, "Can't blame them for using what little ammo they have."

Skirting the issue is saying, "You know what, this point doesn't matter, because for whatever reason, it's inconsequential."

You cannot make statements like "don't copy/steal, innovate on your own, etc." and simply ignore Apple taking the Notification Shade from Android.

And exactly what my sig says a fanatic isn't going to change his mind. People that make statements like that will never give Android any credit for having a good ideas. If you watch Boardwalk Empire you'd know that not every insult needs a response.
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post #58 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

You said, "Can't blame them for using what little ammo they have."

 

Skirting the issue is saying, "You know what, this point doesn't matter, because for whatever reason, it's inconsequential."

 

You cannot make statements like "don't copy/steal, innovate on your own, etc." and simply ignore Apple taking the Notification Shade from Android.

I agree. I think Apple should be licensing its patents and they licensed iOS patents to MSFT. I'm not sure what's wrong with HTC and Samsung...

post #59 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

I agree. I think Apple should be licensing its patents and they licensed iOS patents to MSFT. I'm not sure what's wrong with HTC and Samsung...

You can forget that. Apple and MS have long been frenemies. They've been at each others throat for so long that when a third party arises they band together to get rid of him and then go back to fighting each other.
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post #60 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

I'm absolutely serious.

 

Why are consumers forced to use a proprietary OS on a mobile phone? Dual core, quad core SoCs, GB(s) of RAM and GB(s) of storage.

 

Would you buy a MacBook if you knew that you'd be stuck on Mountain Lion and never able to upgrade? It's your laptop. You can install whatever you want on it. 

 

Our current model doesn't support this, and every two years, as contracts expire, we toss cell phones out the door and go buy a new model on contract. It's tremendously wasteful and completely unnecessary.

 

Apple's genius, in part, is that they finally realized that the majority of the phone-buying public doesn't CARE about tinkering with the workings in their phone, installing a different OS (other than updates), dual-core, GBs, RAM or any other tech issue!  They want to play Angry Birds, make phone calls, text pics to each other.  And after two years, they like tossing their old phones and getting new ones.

 

Period.

 

It's tough for us geeks who hang out on websites like this to realize this, but most people just want their phone to work.  You're assertions may or may not be correct, but either way they are irrelevant to the majority of the people who own smart phones.

post #61 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mactoid View Post

Apple's genius, in part, is that they finally realized that the majority of the phone-buying public doesn't CARE about tinkering with the workings in their phone, installing a different OS (other than updates), dual-core, GBs, RAM or any other tech issue!  They want to play Angry Birds, make phone calls, text pics to each other.  And after two years, they like tossing their old phones and getting new ones.

Period.

It's tough for us geeks who hang out on websites like this to realize this, but most people just want their phone to work.  You're assertions may or may not be correct, but either way they are irrelevant to the majority of the people who own smart phones.

Why toss out the old phone when you can sell it for and get the new phone without coming out of pocket?
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post #62 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

You said, "Can't blame them for using what little ammo they have."

Skirting the issue is saying, "You know what, this point doesn't matter, because for whatever reason, it's inconsequential."

You cannot make statements like "don't copy/steal, innovate on your own, etc." and simply ignore Apple taking the Notification Shade from Android.

I don't know as I have never visited one, hence I am asking. Are Android blog sites full of Apple lovers doing nothing but posting anti Android comments all day?
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post #63 of 151

 

HTC isn't copying Apple.

HTC isn't copying their computers.

HTC isn't copying their mail clients.

HTC isn't copying their Dock.

HTC isn't copying their background images.

HTC isn't copying Apple.

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post #64 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

HTC isn't copying Apple.

HTC isn't copying their computers.

HTC isn't copying their mail clients.

HTC isn't copying their Dock.

HTC isn't copying their background images.

HTC isn't copying Apple.

 

Apple isn't copying Android's Notification Shade.

 

Cry me a river.

post #65 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

You said, "Can't blame them for using what little ammo they have."

Skirting the issue is saying, "You know what, this point doesn't matter, because for whatever reason, it's inconsequential."

You cannot make statements like "don't copy/steal, innovate on your own, etc." and simply ignore Apple taking the Notification Shade from Android.

Even if that were true (and there's plenty of evidence that it's not), do you not understand the difference between taking something that the owner is freely giving away vs taking something without compensation that the owner has elected NOT to give away?
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post #66 of 151
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post
Apple isn't copying Android's Notification Shade.

Cry me a river.

 

When you get close to an argument, let us know.

😆

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post #67 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




HTC isn't copying Apple.
HTC isn't copying their computers.
HTC isn't copying their mail clients.
HTC isn't copying their Dock.
HTC isn't copying their background images.
HTC isn't copying Apple.

That looks very different from an iPad and can no one now line up icons on the bottom of a screen? I'll say heavily inspired but I don't see an outright copy.
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post #68 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

When you get close to an argument, let us know.

😆

 

That is my argument, you simply have no answer for it, so you resort to this.

 

It's my second-favorite part of this place; making you eat your own words, and resort to childish tactics when you're pushed into a corner.

 

Keep on keepin' on.

post #69 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

HTC isn't copying Apple.

HTC isn't copying their computers.

HTC isn't copying their mail clients.

HTC isn't copying their Dock.

HTC isn't copying their background images.

HTC isn't copying Apple.

OMG, icons on the bottom. MS was doing that in the 90's. just like the split screen email thing

post #70 of 151
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post
That is my argument, you simply have no answer for it, so you resort to this.

 

Nothing can be stolen from 'open source'. My answer is that jailbroken iPhones had it first, and from them Apple got its implementation and code, but if you cared whatsoever about the actual argument, you'd know that.


Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
OMG, icons on the bottom. MS was doing that in the 90's. just like the split screen email thing

 

Guess who wasn't doing it and making it look like that. Wild guess.

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post #71 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Nothing can be stolen from 'open source'. My answer is that jailbroken iPhones had it first, but if you cared whatsoever about the actual argument, you'd know that.

 

What kind of an argument is this? Is your argument not that Android doesn't invent, and takes everything from Apple? Does that mean that it is OK for Apple to take something from Android, just because it's open? Design cues, UI and all?

 

You don't think that's hypocritical?

 

The Notification Shade is an integral part of Android, and it was present in 1.0. There was no such thing in a jailbroken iPhone before that, it was added as a feature when someone said, "You know, that makes a lot of sense" and implemented a solution mimicking it.

post #72 of 151
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post
What kind of an argument is this? Is your argument not that Android doesn't invent, and takes everything from Apple? Does that mean that it is OK for Apple to take something from Android, just because it's open? Design cues, UI and all?

 

Edited my post. 

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post #73 of 151

All of these no talent Android makers need to be taken out. Apple should go after every single one of them that is found to be infringing upon any of Apple's patents.

 

I'd rather not see Apple license out any of their patents. I don't believe that Apple's touchscreen patents are FRAND, and in that case, Apple is under no obligation to license any of them to the no talent and freeloading, criminally minded Android crowd. Apple can simply say, "No, fcuk you, you sleazy ripoff artists.", and that's the end of the story. Any Android maker that defies Apple can and should be crushed in court for their violations and disregard for the law.

 

Android users should not be able to "pinch to zoom", Android users should not be able to have "bounce back" and they shouldn't get to use any other Apple patents and ideas either. Let the bums figure out their own way of doing things.

post #74 of 151

Is that the way you think? How easy for The Telco and Apple to dupe you, or, rather, how lazy it is for you to calculate the real cost of owning a new Iphone. Hypothetically speaking, say you had spend USD 200 with a tied in 2 year contract for an Iphone 4 which actually costs only USD 600. Assuming you are going for the USD 75 per month plan from the Telco of your choice, you'd have spend [24 X 75] + 200 = USD 2000 for an Iphone 4. Had you bought your Iphone 4 unlocked, you  would spend USD 600 + whatever comparable pay-as-you-go plan which I think probably about USD 40 per month, so your total cost of owning an unlocked Iphone 4 is [24 X 40] + USD 600 = USD 1560.

 

So, the amount USD 2000 - USD 1560 = USD 440 is the amount of money flying from your pocket to your Telco's hand.  And then, you said you would repeat this same cycle again to get the new Iphone?  It's like saying you want to sell the Iphone 4 which you bought for USD 600 + USD 440 = USD 1040 for merely USD 300 [a whopping 71 % loss in value in just two short years] to pay for a new Iphone which will again tie you up to a new contract for  two money-flying-out-of-your-pocket years. I wouldn't say what you are suggesting people to do as a "smart" move.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Why toss out the old phone when you can sell it for and get the new phone without coming out of pocket?
post #75 of 151

A lil' off topic but CNET is pimping Samsung's Gallery Note 2 today. 

 

http://asia.cnet.com/product/samsung-galaxy-note-2-46728194.htm

 

When I voted "Not for me" in the poll CNET presented a dialogue box offering "Change your Vote?" When I clicked "No Thanks" the vote didn't register.

:/

post #76 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

All of these no talent Android makers need to be taken out. Apple should go after every single one of them that is found to be infringing upon any of Apple's patents.

 

I'd rather not see Apple license out any of their patents. I don't believe that Apple's touchscreen patents are FRAND, and in that case, Apple is under no obligation to license any of them to the no talent and freeloading, criminally minded Android crowd. Apple can simply say, "No, fcuk you, you sleazy ripoff artists.", and that's the end of the story. Any Android maker that defies Apple can and should be crushed in court for their violations and disregard for the law.

 

Android users should not be able to "pinch to zoom", Android users should not be able to have "bounce back" and they shouldn't get to use any other Apple patents and ideas either. Let the bums figure out their own way of doing things.

 

You can kiss the Notification Shade goodbye, then.

 

What about all of the patents owned on other technology that has not been brought to bear against Apple? Have you considered how much Apple may be infringing on themselves, but simply haven't been sued against?

post #77 of 151
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post
What about all of the patents owned on other technology that has not been brought to bear against Apple? Have you considered how much Apple may be infringing on themselves, but simply haven't been sued against?

 

Well, now that these others have some strong legal precedent on which to base their cases, we should be seeing those lawsuits anytime.


Because when a single woman in a promiscuous dress in an Apple Store can sue Apple for $10 million, you'd think other companies would want to jump on the $100 billion bandwagon. That is, if they were actually infringing.

Originally posted by Relic

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post #78 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

You can kiss the Notification Shade goodbye, then.

 

What about all of the patents owned on other technology that has not been brought to bear against Apple? Have you considered how much Apple may be infringing on themselves, but simply haven't been sued against?

If anybody believes that they have any legitimate claims against Apple, then I'll repeat what I've said countless times in the past, let them sue.

post #79 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

I'm absolutely serious.

Why are consumers forced to use a proprietary OS on a mobile phone? Dual core, quad core SoCs, GB(s) of RAM and GB(s) of storage.

Would you buy a MacBook if you knew that you'd be stuck on Mountain Lion and never able to upgrade? It's your laptop. You can install whatever you want on it. 

Our current model doesn't support this, and every two years, as contracts expire, we toss cell phones out the door and go buy a new model on contract. It's tremendously wasteful and completely unnecessary.

The only problem with your argument is that you have it backwards.

While iOS is proprietary, there are regular upgrades - both for bug fixes and major releases with new functionality. Apple has done extremely well at supporting past phones - and you can even install the current OS on the 3 year old iPhone 3GS.

Android, OTOH, while it is open source and supposedly non-proprietary, has a dismal history of upgrade availability. While some phones are currently available with version 4.x, many phones that you buy are still shipping with 2.2. And very few of them will ever have upgrades available if history is any indication.

So your argument that proprietary OSs are inferior because of upgradeability is just plain wrong.
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post #80 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

HTC isn't copying Apple.

HTC isn't copying their computers.

HTC isn't copying their mail clients.

HTC isn't copying their Dock.

HTC isn't copying their background images.

HTC isn't copying Apple.

 

zOmg that looks JUST LIKE AN iMAC!  Everyone in your lawsuit gear ASAP.  

 

Can't wait to see what the evangelicals say when Apple finally gets around to adding some sort of widget functionality to iOS.

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