Apple's iOS 6 3D Flyovers aim to be more helpful, less creepy than Google Street View - Page 3

Imagine if Google and Apple (or Saab, really) had joined forces a few years ago to merge street level imaging with bird's eye imaging ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger 

Imagine if Google and Apple (or Saab, really) had joined forces a few years ago to merge street level imaging with bird's eye imaging ...

Apple and Google working together probably would create some kind of rip in the space time continuum and destroy the universe!

Isn't Google planning to release it's own stand-alone iOS Maps app? Problem solved. It wouldn't integrate into the OS but it would be better than nothing. And comparing StreetView to Flyover makes no sense. They are completely different. Flyover is "gee whiz" play with it once and never use it again. StreetView is actually useful on a day-to-day basis.

I LOVE those Painted Ladies!!  :)

Mark

http://markshangout.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro64 

I really feel bad for all you people who have to rely on a mapping program to find your way and better yet, you need pictures to know if you on the right street or in front of the right store or restaurant. Are you completely lost if your battery dies? Yeah most guys hate asking for direction, but it is not that hard to find a location, you all know streets have names and building have numbers.

 

I will tell you and I have seen this with Google maps a number of time, it takes you to the wrong physical locations, it will say a place in one locate and the stupid street view is correct for where you are standing but, the actual place it down the road a piece with the correct address and all. So you can be standing there looking at the map with the pin and a street view picture showing you are in the right place but you did not find what you were really looking for. However, if you were just looking for house or building numbers you would have known you were not there yet.

 

The best part of this, I personal seen these Google maps mistake in Mountain View CA the home of Google, you think they would gave their own neighborhood perfect.

I understand the sentiment of this post, but it's completely short-sighted.  It would be great if we all lived in your perfect little city where every road and building has a name or number... Alas, my city is not so perfect.

Welcome to Halifax, NS...  Where half of the streets are not labeled, the street signage is like something out of 1910, not nearly enough commercial building display their numbers in visible locations, and there are more one-way streets than not (many of which recently changed directions - talk about infuriating).  Trying to navigate this city, even for locals, can be damn near impossible -- let alone for visitors.

Thankfully, for those of us that will want it, Google will likely release a stand-alone version of their Maps app, so we can still Street View to our hearts content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnoel 

I am a frequent traveler and use Street View a lot. I have been an iphone user since the initial launch of the original iPhone.  This whole maps enhancement/downgrade/change/politics issue will mark the first time that I dont upgrade to the latest version of iOS as soon as it launches.  Crossing my fingers that google launches a native maps application.  Although I am worried that apple may pull the "duplicate functionality" play from the rule book.  Also, why is nobody talking about the ability to set default applications for certain actions?  For example using a native google app to open an address location on a map, or being able to set default browser other than Safari?

because those topics are not what this thread is discussing.  The article talking about Google's street View VS. Apple's Fly-over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger 

Imagine if Google and Apple (or Saab, really) had joined forces a few years ago to merge street level imaging with bird's eye imaging ...

I am pretty sure that was Apple's plan all along until Google decided to roll out Android.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jugney 

I am a loyal Apple user, which is why I come to pro-Apple sites like AppleInsider. But articles like this go well beyond slant, squarely into the territory of spin. I literally felt nauseated from the constant efforts throughout the article to bend the truth, and make any possible dig at Google and say any possible positive thing about Apple. Just how much stock do you own again?

This is a very good point, except for claiming you literally felt nauseated.  Really?  You felt like you were going to barf!

This is one of these things when reading a pro-Apple site (and the comments) does come across as slightly ridiculous, since the articles seem to have a massive aversion to being critical of anything Apple do.

The fact is, for some people (and I include myself here), losing Street View is a pain in the arse (and that's all it is, a pain in the arse, it's not the worst thing ever, and it's not like the worlds going to end).  No amount of effort to suggest the Flyover thing is going to completely replace it is going to work - it won't.  Even the photos you show in the article suggest that.  It's telling that you picked a picture of buildings on Steiner Street, but buildings that overlook Alamo Square Park, so there is clear ground allowing a good shot of the front of the buildings.  Why didn't you try and focus on the buildings one block over, on Steiner Street between Hayes & Fell?  Is it possible that you can't actually get a good view of the front of those buildings because the buildings on the other side of the street are in the way?  You can, however, get a really good view of those using Street View since, gasp, there isn't a truck or bus in the way, which you seem to suggest is an amazingly frequent problem for Street View!

I'm sure there will be some use cases where Flyover will actually be a benefit, and will help you in a way that Street View can't, but because there are sometimes when Flyover is useful won't negate completely the fact that Street View has it's uses.  To try and suggest otherwise is childish.

Sadly, the articles here are so determined to see everything Apple do as being utterly wonderful, and as an extension of that, anything Apple don't do as terrible, that they lose a lot of their value.  It will also seem ridiculous if Apple either themselves, or through a third party, come up with a Street View replacement of their own - then the authors opinions will lurch in completely the other direction, though obviously while finding reasons why Apples solution is still massively superior to Googles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcode 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro64 

I really feel bad for all you people who have to rely on a mapping program to find your way and better yet, you need pictures to know if you on the right street or in front of the right store or restaurant. Are you completely lost if your battery dies? Yeah most guys hate asking for direction, but it is not that hard to find a location, you all know streets have names and building have numbers.

 

I will tell you and I have seen this with Google maps a number of time, it takes you to the wrong physical locations, it will say a place in one locate and the stupid street view is correct for where you are standing but, the actual place it down the road a piece with the correct address and all. So you can be standing there looking at the map with the pin and a street view picture showing you are in the right place but you did not find what you were really looking for. However, if you were just looking for house or building numbers you would have known you were not there yet.

 

The best part of this, I personal seen these Google maps mistake in Mountain View CA the home of Google, you think they would gave their own neighborhood perfect.

 

I understand the sentiment of this post, but it's completely short-sighted.  It would be great if we all lived in your perfect little city where every road and building has a name or number... Alas, my city is not so perfect.

 

Welcome to Halifax, NS...  Where half of the streets are not labeled, the street signage is like something out of 1910, not nearly enough commercial building display their numbers in visible locations, and there are more one-way streets than not (many of which recently changed directions - talk about infuriating).  Trying to navigate this city, even for locals, can be damn near impossible -- let alone for visitors.

 

Thankfully, for those of us that will want it, Google will likely release a stand-alone version of their Maps app, so we can still Street View to our hearts content.

While not a replacement for street view, I find the iOS 6 3D map view quite useful.  If you zoom out you get a nice 3D perspective view -- and as you zoom in you get more and more detail revealed, including grey outlines of buildings.  It is very fast and fluid to navigate -- much better than the iOS 5 Maps app.

Streetview is also useful to virtually explore the world, such as the Kennedy Space Center or shelters used by Antarctic explorers. The other day I was poking around inside the White House with Street View.

Frankly, I think Google has the best free mapping apps available. Maps has Street View, 45-degree oblique imagery (similar to Bing's Birds-Eye view), Streetview, internal building maps, walking, biking, and transit directions. Earth has 3D. There's no need to choose, or write long-winded "articles" like this justifying the lack of features.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 

So we don't get street view because of politics between Apple and Google? I thought Apple was all about providing the best consumer experience. Does an iPhone user really give a shit if their maps are coming from Google or in-house from Apple? No they just want the best experience possible and right now that is street view, not flyover.

I don't know if Apple ever said that we won't get street view...  but, obviously it isn't there, now, in the iOS 6 developer release.  I suspect that Apple will continue to support iOS 5 (and iOS 5 maps with street view) and continue whatever licensing arrangement they have with Google for the data.

Also, consider that the iOS 5 maps app is written and maintained by Apple.  With a proper licensing agreement, Apple could easily drop the iOS 5 street view code into the iOS 6 Maps app.

It may be that Google pays Apple to use their map data/servers -- similar how they pay Apple for searches from iOS devices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekmorr 

Streetview is also useful to virtually explore the world, such as the Kennedy Space Center or shelters used by Antarctic explorers. The other day I was poking around inside the White House with Street View.

 

Frankly, I think Google has the best free mapping apps available. Maps has Street View, 45-degree oblique imagery (similar to Bing's Birds-Eye view), Streetview, internal building maps, walking, biking, and transit directions. Earth has 3D. There's no need to choose, or write long-winded "articles" like this justifying the lack of features.

I agree with your evaluation of the article!

However, this thread is about iOS map apps and the features you mention are not available on the iOS 5 maps app...  I don't know anything about the Android maps app.

Daniel Dilger would argue that red is blue if it helped show Apple in an positive light. 

He is to tech journalism what creationists are to science.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichL 

Daniel Dilger would argue that red is blue if it helped show Apple in an positive light. 

 

 

He is to tech journalism what creationists are to science.

I guess its appropriate you'd resort to name bashing rather than attempting raise a coherent argument supporting your beliefs. One requires effort, the other is what lazy people with unsupportable positions do.

"Join me in hating a very bad person who is bad all the time, no need to even consider why! He's just the same as a common enemy."

The internet deserves better than you. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by boeyc15 


Great idea, but UPS doesn't necessarily touch every street, path in the country...I presume? Although they could be paid to.
However the USPS does touch every street(at least with a delivery address).
But your general point is valid, why hire your own fleet when there are others out there that could be equipt to do so and in theory cheaper. Same for foreign countries.

This again is just not feasible. Why set up a UPS or USPS mail truck with expensive photo equipment when that truck is simply going to drive up and down the same streets everyday. When you hire a dedicated mapping vehicle it does not remap that same street for a couple years. The investment in one rig can map thousands of streets. To map thousands of streets with a USPS truck you would need hundreds of camera rigs that would go completely unused after the first day. Not only that but these rigs need qualified operators. The USPS delivery person many times parks their truck at the end of the street and services the neighborhoods on foot and really don't have time to fiddle around with a camera while they are doing their real job.

I'm pretty impressed at how Apple's software not only applies photographic faces to the 3D model, but also removes people and cars on streets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind 

Apple and Google working together probably would create some kind of rip in the space time continuum and destroy the universe!

In that case, we should all be dead right now. You do know they have been working together, still are and will continue to do so on many things, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patranus 

 

I am pretty sure that was Apple's plan all along until Google decided to roll out Android.

Apple couldn't have planned to merge bird's eye data before Android because they only acquired C3 a year ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone 

This again is just not feasible. Why set up a UPS or USPS mail truck with expensive photo equipment when that truck is simply going to drive up and down the same streets everyday. When you hire a dedicated mapping vehicle it does not remap that same street for a couple years. The investment in one rig can map thousands of streets. To map thousands of streets with a USPS truck you would need hundreds of camera rigs that would go completely unused after the first day. Not only that but these rigs need qualified operators. The USPS delivery person many times parks their truck at the end of the street and services the neighborhoods on foot and really don't have time to fiddle around with a camera while they are doing their real job.

Good point. Furthermore, why are people suggesting alternatives at this point? Google has done a fairly comprehensive job of mapping the world already. Anyone who can do a better job should ... just do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger 

Apple couldn't have planned to merge bird's eye data before Android because they only acquired C3 a year ago.

No, what I meant was that the original plan was to let Google handle all of these data services while Apple focused on iOS/Hardware.

Android changed that dynamic.

Spin it however you want but 3D and Streetview serve very different purposes.  And the latter is far more useful to the average consumer.  Actually, the 2D plain map (no terrain or satellite view) and Streetview is the best way to research where you are going. 

3D is visually nice.  Functionally?  How much does it add?

The best part about iOS6 Maps will be native navigation.  The worst part will be the sub-par database.  And that's why if Google does offer Google Maps as a Standalone app, you'll quickly see it become standard on most iPhones.  After all, the most important thing about a map is the information on it.  Not how pretty it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booga 

Spin it how you want, but working in NYC I can tell you that iOS 6's maps app is way, way less useful than iOS 5. It will be a dramatic downgrade. No subway directions, no street view so you know what the storefront looks like... GPS doesn't work great in the city anyway... I expect Apple to have a PR nightmare on its hands next month...

But isn't it amazing that you now know what your neighbour is hiding on his roof?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetz 

Spin it however you want but 3D and Streetview serve very different purposes.  And the latter is far more useful to the average consumer.  Actually, the 2D plain map (no terrain or satellite view) and Streetview is the best way to research where you are going. 

 

3D is visually nice.  Functionally?  How much does it add?

 

The best part about iOS6 Maps will be native navigation.  The worst part will be the sub-par database.  And that's why if Google does offer Google Maps as a Standalone app, you'll quickly see it become standard on most iPhones.  After all, the most important thing about a map is the information on it.  Not how pretty it is.

As I posted earlier, iOS6 3D plain map view (no terrain or satellite view) is easier to use and much faster than  iOS 5 2D map view.

Edit:

Here's a series of photos looking up Lombard Street towards Coit Tower in iOS 6 3D Map Standard View.

As you zoom in the detail changes and you see outlines of buildings.  It's a little hard to describe, but with 2 fingers you can pinch-zoom, pan, rotate in a fluid motion.  As you rotate, the names rotate with you.  The series of views (and everything in between) was all done on an iPad 2 with 2 fingers that never left the screen -- once you get used to the power of this it is hard to go back to the old iOS 5 map app.  During the panning, zooming and rotating there were no blank tiles or any delays -- it just moved with you!

If you're in 3D mode and zoom out far enough -- say, from 3D San Francisco, into the Bay area, it leaves 3D Mode (it's  of no use).  So, when you pan down to, say, San Jose and zoom in -- it re-enters 3D mode automatically... just like you'd want it to do.

I like this map capability better than any other I've tried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrections 

 

I guess its appropriate you'd resort to name bashing rather than attempting raise a coherent argument supporting your beliefs. One requires effort, the other is what lazy people with unsupportable positions do.

 

"Join me in hating a very bad person who is bad all the time, no need to even consider why! He's just the same as a common enemy."

 

The internet deserves better than you. 

 

There's no need to list everything wrong in this absurd article because it's errors are immediately evident to anyone with a functional brain cell. If DED said that the earth was flat there would be no need to point out how wrong he was, because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS IT.  What he has written is not controversial or edgy, it's just a pack of lies, and everyone knows it.

This article is beyond ridiculous. If anyone at AA thinks for a second it will be taken seriously they are massively deluded. Just read the comment thread here, - when even hardcore Apple fans call you out for spouting rubbish, then you're onto a loser. The article should be pulled and DED should be fired. He's become a parody of himself, a 'writer' so biased, so ludicrously one sided as to be utterly worthless. Ditch him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotatsu 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrections 

 

I guess its appropriate you'd resort to name bashing rather than attempting raise a coherent argument supporting your beliefs. One requires effort, the other is what lazy people with unsupportable positions do.

 

"Join me in hating a very bad person who is bad all the time, no need to even consider why! He's just the same as a common enemy."

 

The internet deserves better than you. 

 

 

There's no need to list everything wrong in this absurd article because it's errors are immediately evident to anyone with a functional brain cell. If DED said that the earth was flat there would be no need to point out how wrong he was, because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS IT.  What he has written is not controversial or edgy, it's just a pack of lies, and everyone knows it.

 

This article is beyond ridiculous. If anyone at AA thinks for a second it will be taken seriously they are massively deluded. Just read the comment thread here, - when even hardcore Apple fans call you out for spouting rubbish, then you're onto a loser. The article should be pulled and DED should be fired. He's become a parody of himself, a 'writer' so biased, so ludicrously one sided as to be utterly worthless. Ditch him.

He should go into politics... Oh, wait...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider 

[...] Flyover certainly isn't the same as StreetView; the detail is rougher and often morphed or distorted. Apple doesn't have to blur faces or license places in Flyover because you can't make out details at that level anyway. [...]

Then, if it isn't the same, and the purposes aren't the same, why write this article like if Flyover makes StreetView obsolete?

If I wish to know how an address is, I don't want a continuous flyover over a big area with low-quality imagery data, no matter how cool it is. I want such a level of detail that makes it necessary to blur faces or license plates. So, such need to blur is not a disadvantage (as you seem to imply), but the consequence of the level of detail I wish to have.

I use StreetView for both my work (as an architect), and for my spare time (for travel planning), and it's a tool that really helps me, and no, it can't be substituted by the flyover feature you mention here, because they're different features, with different purposes, just like you admitted.

I'm an OSX user (three OSX machines), but I don't have any smartphone/tablet at this time. I was considering either the iPad or the iPhone as my next purchase but, if I'm going to lack StreetView, I'm sorry but I'll choose a non-Apple product.

And you dare to say GoogleEarth is "creepy"? Do you mean it's creepier than the AppStore and the recent Apple strategy to forbid Google to provide iOS users with superb StreetView experience?

A word to Apple: You've done a lot of money with iOS. So, I believe you've the resources to ship a camera-car to every street in the whole World, and beat Google's StreetView. But, please, if you want to knock Google, just knock Google, and not us your iOS users: First knock Google by developing a real alternative to StreetView. And then kill StreetView if you wish, but don't kill SV first, as then you leave us without a feature we want to have. As I said, I won't purchase any iOS device if it lacks StreetView.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


So you never use any sort of map for anything? You automatically know where every street?
Do you know realize the benefit of Street View that allows you get information about a location without actually going to that street. Example: "What was the name of that [insert business name] we were at when we were in [insert city name] last [insert previous time frame]?"

Actually I use maps all the times, both paper street and topographically maps as well as electronic. I look at them and look at where I am, then go on may way to where I need to be. I could care less what the it looks likes before I get there. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by antkm1 

I think there's no argument that Google maps is flawed in it's location finding.  And personally I have an excellent sense of direction.  Everyone who knows me will confirm that.  But in general, most people don't have such a good skill.  Consider when you're on the subway and need to know what your surroundings look like upon exiting, street view is much more helpful than fly-over.  Many times, the subway exits will have you turned around if you don't know where you're going.  I travel a lot and usually when I go out to explore, I have the street view pulled up so I know what I'm looking for.  Makes finding places much easier when I know what the building looks like when driving/walking up to it.  And sometimes the roads can have traffic and speeds that hinder looking around, searching for addresses.  So being able to quickly glance for a building rather than an Address makes more sense in those cases.

I am not saying it does not have a use, but people need to stop becoming reliant on these systems because they are not always right and or available all the time. When you find one things wrong with data systems like map programs sending to the wrong place you can not trust any of what it tells you. This is why people get lost following these systems and what you hear about people ending up in bad places because the followed the system blindly. People are too trusting or forgiving of systems which they know or have experience with knowing it is wrong

I too have been in some of the largest subway systems in the world include NYC and Tokyo and understand coming out any number exit and then having to quickly figure out to get where I am to where I need to be. I will always trust my person reasoning and problem solving over using a known flawed system. 

Anyway, Google balls and whistles are nice, but not necessary and apples understands this and they probably know a large % of user do not rely on street view or walking direction. I personally never seen anyone walk around a big city with their phone out following direction as they walk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antkm1 

• if you're looking for a specific location but don't know which side of the street it's on, can't see that very clearly from fly-over.

 

It is customary to have odd numbered buildings on one side of the street and even the other, they usually go outwards from a centre point, usually a post office.

They figured this back in the olden days when they weren't expecting people demanding to be spoon fed everything instead of figuring things out for themselves.

I am 100% the opposite.  I have never once found a use for street view and only have a single friend that uses it "once or twice per year".  I really do not see the point of street view beyond a "look what we did!!!".

I have found the Fly Over much more useful in visualizing where and how to get places and its one very big weak spot is the lack of current coverage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poke 

What we really need is 3D models with Street View level data. I like the information Street View gives me - I can "walk" a path before I go there and figure out exactly where I need to go - but the UI is clunky and tedious to use because you can't do it fluidly. Combining the two technologies would give the best results, or at least once the hardware can handle it. Right now it feels like neither solution is perfect although Street View is more useful.

The world is becoming a boring place when people aren't willing to explore.

Here's an idea, why even go somewhere when you can sit in the comfort of your home and do it all on a screen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

 "What was the name of that [insert business name] we were at when we were in [insert city name] last [insert previous time frame]?"

Shhh! that lap dance club in Cincinnati is supposed to be a secret.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antkm1 

another example.  Let's say you had lunch at some place, saw a shop a couple doors down you wanted to visit but didn't have the time to go.  Now you forgot the name.  Just pull up street view...problem solved.

Take a photo, it's stored complete with location and date.

Your phone has a camera, I often use it in parking lots so I can find my car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antkm1 

I didn't even think about subway mapping?  You mean iOS 6 Maps has no subway overlays?  That would really piss me off since I highly rely on them when traveling.  Grrrr.  Plus in Beijing, the subway exits are so crazy, sometimes you're a full block away from the intersection by the time you exit the subway.  Google Maps does have some really good overlays for that!

There's an App for that. grrr

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs 

I'm an OSX user (three OSX machines), but I don't have any smartphone/tablet at this time. I was considering either the iPad or the iPhone as my next purchase but, if I'm going to lack StreetView, I'm sorry but I'll choose a non-Apple product.

 

So you do not use street view on a mobile device, you use it on a computer.

Nothing will change if you buy an iPhone or iPad.

Thank you for playing but your excuse is a failure.

I imagine using flyover over data will destroy your data plan in seconds/minutes. That's alot of stuff to download. Literally thousands of textured surfaces. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs 

 

Then, if it isn't the same, and the purposes aren't the same, why write this article like if Flyover makes StreetView obsolete?

 

If I wish to know how an address is, I don't want a continuous flyover over a big area with low-quality imagery data, no matter how cool it is. I want such a level of detail that makes it necessary to blur faces or license plates. So, such need to blur is not a disadvantage (as you seem to imply), but the consequence of the level of detail I wish to have.

 

I use StreetView for both my work (as an architect), and for my spare time (for travel planning), and it's a tool that really helps me, and no, it can't be substituted by the flyover feature you mention here, because they're different features, with different purposes, just like you admitted.

 

I'm an OSX user (three OSX machines), but I don't have any smartphone/tablet at this time. I was considering either the iPad or the iPhone as my next purchase but, if I'm going to lack StreetView, I'm sorry but I'll choose a non-Apple product.

 

And you dare to say GoogleEarth is "creepy"? Do you mean it's creepier than the AppStore and the recent Apple strategy to forbid Google to provide iOS users with superb StreetView experience?

 

A word to Apple: You've done a lot of money with iOS. So, I believe you've the resources to ship a camera-car to every street in the whole World, and beat Google's StreetView. But, please, if you want to knock Google, just knock Google, and not us your iOS users: First knock Google by developing a real alternative to StreetView. And then kill StreetView if you wish, but don't kill SV first, as then you leave us without a feature we want to have. As I said, I won't purchase any iOS device if it lacks StreetView.

I don't think Apple cares if you won't purchase any iOS device without streetview. There's maybe you and 4 other people in the world that will make a purchasing decision based on that, so stop pretending you have leverage. Apple's streetview replacement is flyover. They're not gonna develop their own streetview, would be a massive waste of resources and incredibly redundant. In most scenarios, flyover is superior, as it can be infinitely manipulated, more easily updated, and a more seamless and holistic solution, as well as being extremely detailed. Tell me, how often will Google remap the world? What they mapped will remain as it is for an extremely long time. 3D models can much more easily be updated. Streetview will become obsolete extremely quickly. 

Regardless, Google will still have their own maps app available in the appstore. Stop your needless whining.