or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Samsung to sue Apple over LTE patents, partner with Microsoft to avoid Android lawsuits
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung to sue Apple over LTE patents, partner with Microsoft to avoid Android lawsuits

post #1 of 100
Thread Starter 
Reeling from its scathing jury verdict, Samsung executives have promised to continue litigation with Apple over patents while also partnering with Microsoft to cut its dependency on Google's Android.

According to a report by the Korean Times, Samsung plans to not only appeal the jury's findings of its willful infringements, but also to pursue new patent litigation related to 4G LTE networks.

Abuse of patent law, not the pursuit of innovation

The paper stated that "Samsung confirmed that it will immediately sue Apple if the latter releases products using advanced long-term evolution (LTE) mobile technology," although Apple already has released New iPad models with 4G LTE connectivity, having introduced them nearly six months ago.

Suing over new standards essential patents related to LTE would only expand the trouble Samsung is facing in its efforts to defend its willful infringement of Apple's utility patents, and most critically its overt infringement of Apple's design patents and its registered trade dress, by leveraging standards patents already committed to Fair, Reasonable and Nondiscriminatory (FRAND) licensing terms.

Samsung controls less than an eight of the patents related to LTE, with Nokia, Qualcomm and Ericsson accounting for 43 percent. However, Samsung has pursued the same strategy as Google's Motorola subsidiary in arguing that it only takes "one bullet to kill," or that just a few standards essential patents can be use to successfully monopolize entire markets. Both companies are under investigation in the U.S. and E.U. for allegedly abusing patent law with regard to FRAND-committed patents.

The same jury that found Samsung in infringement threw out all of Samsung's patent claims against Apple, including those related to the 3G specification. Apple argued that it does not infringe upon the patents, but also that Samsung misled standards bodies by hiding patents covering the technology it submitted for inclusion in those standards.

Proper disclosure of the patents would have clarified the situation, as patents contributed to industry standard specifications such as MPEG, WiFi, 3G and LTE are required to be broadly licensed under FRAND terms. Apple itself has contributed to such industry standards as H.264 and HTML5, in prominent cases giving up its patent rights entirely to help forge standards (as was the case with MPEG 4's QuickTime container format and HTML5's Canvas features, both of which are now free, not just FRAND).

Despite its threats to ramp up litigation, Samsung has also complained in a letter to its employees that a company can't win over customers and continuously grow "when its primary means to competition has been the outright abuse of patent law, not the pursuit of innovation."

From a "crisis of design" to just a "crisis"

Samsung's attempts to escape from what its internal documents described as a "crisis of design" were portrayed by Apple in the trial as being an intense, three month effort to closely copy the iPhone, a tactic Apple's attorney's said was approved by the company's top executives.


Samsung Electronics chairman Lee Kun-hee | Source: Korean Times


The Korean Times quoted Kim Sang-jo, a professor of economics at Hansung University, as noting that "the leadership of Samsung Chairman Lee Kun-hee is being put on the test as Samsung is in crisis, at least for the time being."

It cited a Samsung executive as saying "the chairman calmed down and slightly closed his eyes after he was briefed [on the verdict]. But he didn?t say anything further."

The article also cited unnamed officials as saying that Samsung is "closely partnering with Microsoft to cut its dependency on Google Android," while at the same time stating that "Samsung has been in talks with major U.S. carriers to jointly develop modified design technology. This will be effective, though we can?t unveil more details for the time being."

Samsung previously partnered with Microsoft to use Windows Mobile, the platform powering its popular line of BlackJack phones that were selling when the iPhone debuted. Since the iPhone, however, Samsung has largely sidelined its support for Microsoft's mobile platforms to focus on Android.

Samsung currently sells smartphones running Android 2.x Froyo and Gingerbread, Android 3.x and 4.x, as well models running its own Bada platform. It recently introduced new Windows Phone 8 phones and tablets running Windows 8.
post #2 of 100

This looks like posturing for domestic consumption, so probably should not be taken at face value.

post #3 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

.... It recently introduced new Windows Phone 8 phones and tablets running Windows 8.

 

huh??

 

edit:  yesterday I guess....or is it an iPhone announcement????

 


Edited by icoco3 - 8/30/12 at 11:14am
post #4 of 100

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

Reply

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

Reply
post #5 of 100

The article also cited unnamed officials as saying that Samsung is "closely partnering with Microsoft to cut its dependency on Google Android,"

 

 

Which would just prove Apple's case. 

 

Especially when nearly all of Samsung's (dominant) mobile marketshare is based on Android. 


Edited by Quadra 610 - 8/30/12 at 11:18am
post #6 of 100

Suing over new standards essential patents related to LTE would only expand the trouble Samsung is facing in its efforts to defend its willful infringement of Apple's utility patents, and most critically its overt infringement of Apple's design patents and its registered trade dress, by leveraging standards patents already committed to Fair, Reasonable and Nondiscriminatory (FRAND) licensing terms.

Samsung controls less than an eight of the patents related to LTE, with Nokia, Qualcomm and Ericsson accounting for 43 percent. However, Samsung has pursued the same strategy as Google's Motorola subsidiary in arguing that it only takes "one bullet to kill," or that just a few standards essential patents can be use to successfully monopolize entire markets. Both companies are under investigation in the U.S. and E.U. for allegedly abusing patent law with regard to FRAND-committed patents.

The same jury that found Samsung in infringement threw out all of Samsung's patent claims against Apple, including those related to the 3G specification. Apple argued that it does not infringe upon the patents, but also that Samsung misled standards bodies by hiding patents covering the technology it submitted for inclusion in those standards.

Proper disclosure of the patents would have clarified the situation, as patents contributed to industry standard specifications such as MPEG, WiFi, 3G and LTE are required to be broadly licensed under FRAND terms. Apple itself has contributed to such industry standards as H.264 and HTML5, in prominent cases giving up its patent rights entirely to help forge standards (as was the case with MPEG 4's QuickTime container format and HTML5's Canvas features, both of which are now free, not just FRAND).

 

 

That would be one hellacious can of worms for Samsung. Horrible, horrible strategy. 

post #7 of 100

Samsung is on the verge of cutting their own throat

I don't own a iPhone or anything close to a smartphone, but the gum flapping that Samsung has been doing in recent days tells me that they are sore losers and if I ever do have the inclination to buy a smartphone, Samsung has lost my business even before they had it. This goes for anything made by Samsung.

post #8 of 100
Is it me or does the device look the same as any other? What makes it new? Besides the shitware known as windows 8?
White Nexus 7 8GB
Black & Slate iPhone 5 32GB AT&T
Reply
White Nexus 7 8GB
Black & Slate iPhone 5 32GB AT&T
Reply
post #9 of 100

Yupe, Samsung had just unveiled its line up for W8 and WP8 devices in Berlin yesterday. It definitely steals some thunder out of the planned joint announcement by the "two steves" Elop and Balmer on Nokia's new devices running the exact same OS'es later next week. I still can't quite figure out Samsung's game plan though. Is it to rule the world via smartphones? Does Samsung actually embed some sort of mind-controlling chips inside all of its phones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

 

huh??

post #10 of 100

 

It's basically a Galaxy S3 shell running Windows Phone. I see Samsung trying to drag Microsoft into it's battle with Apple.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
Reply
I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
Reply
post #11 of 100

 


Edited by Tallest Skil - 8/30/12 at 11:27am

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #12 of 100

In other news, Parallels 8 for iOS has been shown running Windows Phone 8 on a prototype iPhone expected to launch sometime in September.

post #13 of 100

What about Apple defense with the 4g patents acquired from Nortel?

post #14 of 100

I thought the whole point to FRAND was to make available to all manufactures and developers patented technology at a set standard price.

 

I just don't understand how these companies are able to sue for FRAND patents they submitted.

 

Seems to me the only thing they should be able to sue for is use of the technology without compensation based on the FRAND set standard price.

 

Can someone tell me if I am looking at this wrong?

Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away. - GC
Reply
Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away. - GC
Reply
post #15 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrs View Post

I still can't quite figure out Samsung's game plan though. Is it to rule the world via smartphones? Does Samsung actually embed some sort of mind-controlling chips inside all of its phones?

 

It's purely sour-grapes + revenge. Going after Apple over LTE?

 

Translation: "we lost on all counts that actually affect our product in ways that are meaningful to the consumer, so now we'll just go after Apple on wireless tech."

post #16 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

 

huh??

 

edit:  yesterday I guess....or is it an iPhone announcement????

 

it's actually a decent looking phone. Looks like it too has an aluminum back. could hurt android sales.

post #17 of 100

From what I can tell, Apple and Microsoft have a very close relationship. While on the outside it may seem like they are major competitors, they do produce a lot of cross platform software. Apple helps Microsoft and Microsoft helps Apple. I don't see Microsoft partnering with Samsung to sue Apple. If anything, Microsoft should get away from Samsung. 

post #18 of 100

THEY WILL ALL look the same eventually. They are ALL already converging into "rectangle with rounded edges". How different do you think they will become? Has anyone at IBM's Zurich Lab or Watson Lab came up with a Googolgon shape phone yet? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post

Is it me or does the device look the same as any other? What makes it new? Besides the shitware known as windows 8?
post #19 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

huh??

edit:  yesterday I guess....or is it an iPhone announcement????


Is that the iPhone (looks to see if Tallest is around) "5"?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #20 of 100

A large fraction of Samsung's customers aren't loyal, thanks to their poor quality and poor support. Samsung is all about market saturation, rather than steady solid growth. Too bad it had to take a major lawsuit for the company to finally learn this:

 

"History has shown there has yet to be a company that has won the hearts and minds of consumers and achieved continuous growth, when its primary means to competition has been the outright abuse of patent law, not the pursuit of innovation."

post #21 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrs View Post

THEY WILL ALL look the same eventually. They are ALL already converging into "rectangle with rounded edges". 

Fortunately, phones like the Nokia 900 don't exist to prove you wrong. lol.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #22 of 100

I think I said "eventually". It may take two years, five years, a decade, who knows..., but it will eventually become just one shape [or perhaps none - because in the future we can start speaking telepathically even over a long distance with a quantum phone].

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Fortunately, phones like the Nokia 900 don't exist to prove you wrong. lol.gif
post #23 of 100

few here in the US really understand Samsung, and why it reacts this total-in-denial way.

 

Samsung dominates Korea - not just economically, but politically and even socially - to a degree that no American corporation has ever come close to, even at the peak of the robber baron era. as a result, Samsung's leaderhip live inside a bubble of total arrogance about its own superior mandate that we just don't really get. the closest thing to it we are familiar with is, maybe, the Pope.

 

so it looks like they'll have to lose their appeal and a second round of Apple lawsuits, due to come to trial next year on the newer products not included in this case, before they finally accept the necessity of paying Apple for a license.

post #24 of 100

Face it, Samsung was probably already looking for a new course, with Google buying Moto Mobility.  Who can blame them, really?

post #25 of 100

to see what Apple is dealing with:

 

samsung a rambling secretive conglomerate is family controlled with multimillionaire family members suing EACH OTHER in court. Samsung probably controls 20% of Korea's GDP, for years no one has dared stand against them (until Steve Jobs!) and many government and court officials don't dare to fart without their permission, for example:

 

Kee Kun Hee, chairman of Samsung was convicted of fraud, tax evasion etc, sentenced to jail and then PARDONED by the Korean President:

 

 

wikipedia 

 

"Seoul Central District Court found him guilty on charges of financial wrongdoing and tax evasion. Prosecutors requested that Lee be sentenced to seven years in prison and fined $347 million. The court fined him $109 million and sentenced him to 3 years suspended jail time. Lee has not responded to the verdict.[5]  On December 29, 2009, the South Korean government moved to pardon Lee Kun-hee."

post #26 of 100

I don't even know where to begin. First of all, there might be people running around with betas and RCs of Win8 and WP8 software and they may tout the hell out of it...most likely cause they are evangelists and are paid to tout the hell out of Microsoft stuff, but W8/WP8 is not out to the masses yet. WP7/WP7.5 still has no real user base and so many people are betting their farms on W8/WP8. For one thing, there's a pretty good divide between people who like W8's new touch UI and those that just want it to get the hell out of their way. That's Microsoft's biggest issue usually is that Windows is so bloated up it generally can't even get out of it's own way let alone your way.

 

The Windows extremists (I don't even bother with calling them fanatics anymore) are saying the Surface will wipe everything. It doesn't even exist yet in any meaningful manner and as far as I've seen, nobody has actually really tested one or any form of a development model or anything. These people are so desperate to win at something that they will now basically resort to saying they've already won when the thing that has won the competition for them isn't even...well...real yet.

 

"Hey, neat! It has a keyboard built into the cover! Can I try it?" 
"No."

"Oh, well can I see what the specs on this bad boy are through the Control Panel?"

"No." 

"Can I do anything outside of this stupid useless demo app?"

"No."

"Oh. Um...well it looks like a winner to me either way. You see this, Apple!? We just won the game again. Call Balmer, we need to do a funeral for the iPad."

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply
post #27 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by twosee View Post

it's actually a decent looking phone. Looks like it too has an aluminum back. could hurt android sales.

Of course it looks good, it looks just like a 4S.
post #28 of 100

I've two words for you, Samsung: Rounded Rhombuses

post #29 of 100
Yet another example of Samsung trying to abuse the FRAND system. I can't wait to see it bite them HARD.

BTW, just when you think that the Apple haters' arguments couldn't get any more bizarre, there's this:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/apple-business/news/?newsid=3378531&olo=rss
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #30 of 100

So will Samsung be allowed to put it's new touch UI (likely called TouchPoop) over WinPhone 8's standard interface? I mean how can they continue to make an iPhone when the OS UI doesn't look like the iPhone's? 

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply
post #31 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yet another example of Samsung trying to abuse the FRAND system. I can't wait to see it bite them HARD.
BTW, just when you think that the Apple haters' arguments couldn't get any more bizarre, there's this:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/apple-business/news/?newsid=3378531&olo=rss

 

Please tell me that article was a joke. Or satire, like the Onion. Please. Because I don't think my faith in humanity and common sense can drop any lower. 

post #32 of 100

FRAND patents.  Yawn.

post #33 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Samsung has been in talks with major U.S. carriers to jointly develop modified design technology. This will be effective, though we can?t unveil more details for the time being."

 

For some reason, I'm imagining carrier partners gluing cases on phones to hide the infringing phones physical designs.

post #34 of 100

Brillant move Same-sung!  Partner with Microsoft on the failed Windows Phone more so than you already have.  The new Windows Phone 8 looks even worse than the first version, if that is possible.  Unless, Same-sung is going to put their iOS cloner interface bloatware on top of the Windows Phone.  But...Microsoft can not come to defend their partner when Apple sues for that, as Microsoft would lose all their rights to Apples phone patents due to the non-clone cause.  Same-sung really is stupid.

post #35 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yet another example of Samsung trying to abuse the FRAND system. I can't wait to see it bite them HARD.
BTW, just when you think that the Apple haters' arguments couldn't get any more bizarre, there's this:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/apple-business/news/?newsid=3378531&olo=rss

Pong.

Pong.

...

PONG???
post #36 of 100

There could be a series of really easy decisions going forward for Apple.

 

First, Apple could submit their own standard (for FRAND licensing) to obliterate their need for LTE, and with such an enormous slice of the market, they'd get it.

 

Second, Samsung could be endangering their own tenuous hold on their FRAND patents by acting in such a discriminatory fashion. Losing one's patents for abusing their even application in the market is not unheard of.

 

Third, Apple may start buying up suppliers critical to Samsung's operations. That wouldn't be beyond their capabilities.

 

Samsung, you mess with the bull... you'll get the horns!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #37 of 100

Ok so as I understand it...Samsung looses a major case against Apple. They are going to now distance themselves from Android and just continue making phones that look like the phones that got them in trouble in the first place...but now they can't be smacked with look and feel UI lawsuits cause MS doesn't allow third-party UI garbage to sugar-coat their UI. Why can't Samsung just redo their Android TouchWiz UI garbage so it doesn't look like it copies Apple? Wouldn't that be easier and potentially more lucrative than aligning yourself with an OS that has no user-base? 

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply
post #38 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post

Ok so as I understand it...Samsung looses a major case against Apple. They are going to now distance themselves from Android and just continue making phones that look like the phones that got them in trouble in the first place...but now they can't be smacked with look and feel UI lawsuits cause MS doesn't allow third-party UI garbage to sugar-coat their UI. Why can't Samsung just redo their Android TouchWiz UI garbage so it doesn't look like it copies Apple? Wouldn't that be easier and potentially more lucrative than aligning yourself with an OS that has no user-base? 


Even easier, just stop putting TouchWiz on top of the standard Android interface! Oh, and stop making phones that physically look like an iPhone (which they're already doing with at least some models).

post #39 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

 

"History has shown there has yet to be a company that has won the hearts and minds of consumers and achieved continuous growth, when its primary means to competition has been the outright abuse of patent law, not the pursuit of innovation."

That is a typical propaganda technique.  Accuse your opponent of the very thing of which you are guilty

post #40 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

BTW, just when you think that the Apple haters' arguments couldn't get any more bizarre, there's this:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/apple-business/news/?newsid=3378531&olo=rss

 

I almost shot tomato soup out of my nose while reading that! LOL

 

After reading that, I'm wondering when a rubberband company is going to sue Apple.


Edited by TheUnfetteredMind - 8/30/12 at 1:27pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Samsung to sue Apple over LTE patents, partner with Microsoft to avoid Android lawsuits
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Samsung to sue Apple over LTE patents, partner with Microsoft to avoid Android lawsuits