Paul Ryan thinks you are a bunch of fucking idiots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

The truth just absolutely does not matter to him or the Republican party die-hards.  

 

Lying about the debt commission.

 

Doubles down on lying about the credit downgrade.

 

Lies about the Janesville plant closing.

 

And many more!!!

 

What's worse is that Paul Ryan has been called out on many of these lies before and yet continues to repeat them over and over again, thinking you are all too dumb, lazy, or partisan to spit out the diarrhea he is force-feeding you.  Paul Ryan claims it's just chocolate.  Some of you have lost your senses of smell and taste to tell the difference.

Not surprising. As far as losing their senses it's only the conservatives. Meanwhile the rest of the thinking world goes on.

Here's an article on Salon.com about Ryans lies :

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/30/paul_ryans_brazen_lies//

Well, Obama thinks you are a bunch of fucking idiots also if he thinks you've bought into his "argument" for his re-election.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Well, Obama thinks you are a bunch of fucking idiots also if he thinks you've bought into his "argument" for his re-election.

Perhaps you'd like to find an article to support your statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Perhaps you'd like to find an article to support your statement.

Why? We've got the entire last 3.5 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Perhaps you'd like to find an article to support your statement.

Is our country better off now than it was 4 years ago?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzguru 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Perhaps you'd like to find an article to support your statement.

 

Is our country better off now than it was 4 years ago?

With Bush in charge and the looming economic downturn where someone in charge ( yes folks it was a Republican ) largely doing nothing for 8 years previous yes unquestionably. Look what the last administration's actions ( or lack there of ) led to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Perhaps you'd like to find an article to support your statement.

 

Why? We've got the entire last 3.5 years.

Only in your mind and the conservative mind set. You'd better get some more support than that. ( wink if I could )

But thanks for bumping this thread. It's an important issue to point out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Well, Obama thinks you are a bunch of fucking idiots also if he thinks you've bought into his "argument" for his re-election.

Maybe they should just rename this forum Political Tuquoquester, since that seems to be the theme of most of the threads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Only in your mind and the conservative mind set.

Yeah...the enormous deficit, spiraling debt, high unemployment, etc. are just "in my mind."

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Only in your mind and the conservative mind set.

 

Yeah...the enormous deficit, spiraling debt, high unemployment, etc. are just "in my mind."

 

And this started where? ( wink if I could )

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

And this started where? ( wink if I could )

January 2009.

No and he plans not to. Good for him.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

The truth just absolutely does not matter to him or the Republican party die-hards.  

 

Lying about the debt commission.

 

Doubles down on lying about the credit downgrade.

 

Lies about the Janesville plant closing.

 

And many more!!!

 

What's worse is that Paul Ryan has been called out on many of these lies before and yet continues to repeat them over and over again, thinking you are all too dumb, lazy, or partisan to spit out the diarrhea he is force-feeding you.  Paul Ryan claims it's just chocolate.  Some of you have lost your senses of smell and taste to tell the difference.

Actually the OP is the partisan and in buying a bunch of White House crony columnists, he shows that anyone who would buy his contention is too dumb, lazy or partisan to ignore the diarrhea that constitutes this thread.

The Debt Commission piece is an OPINION piece.

Here is the Ryan statement.

He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report.  He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.

That is a fact. The columnist complains that Ryan was on the commission and did not vote for their recommendations. That has nothing to do with what Obama did. Obama has done ZERO to get his fiscal house in order. He promised to cut his deficit spending in half by the end of his first term from the bloated level of almost a trillion a year created by shoving legislation in the final fiscal year of the Bush administration and inflating the level of deficit spending ridiculously high. He isn't even close. He is borrowing and overspending by a trillion dollars a year and this has been true for all four years of his presidency.

The rest will be addressed if you actually ENGAGE the conversation rather than cursing and lashing out at everyone. Stop trolling and start engaging.

As trumptman says...there's nothing to engage with here.

This is the latest tactic: Declare some thing about the candidate you don't support (pretending it is true only about them and that the candidate you do support isn't doing exactly the same thing.) Then condemn anyone that points out how partisan, blind and hypocritical you're being by not realizing this is happening on both sides.

There's nothing here. Your posts have become the definition of vacuous.

Am I trying to derail the thread? Sure. If only to get it on to a more meaningful subject of the general and more widespread lying, deception and misdirection coming out of the two major political parties and their candidates. You want to put all of the focus on only one while entirely ignoring the other. Are you, along with Hands, in the employ of the Obama campaign also?!

These guys (from Bush 1, to Clinton, to Bush 2, to Obama, to Romney) are a few degrees apart at best. If the political spectrum is a circle (and that seems a reasonable model to consider) these guys are 1-2 degrees apart from one another and you pretend like there are radical differences. This comes from focusing to closely and narrowly. When the left claims that Ryan's plan guts the budget, they give the impression that he's actually cutting spending...not the reality that, at best, he's slowing the rate of spending growth. If Ryan's plan is considered radical, gutting of the budget on par with returning to some kind of dark ages, then it's clear we've gone off the deep end and have lost all perspective. Ryan will run $1T deficits, while Obama's will run $1.3T deficits. Fucking $300B difference on a $3.5T budget! I remember when Democrats were screaming about Bush running ("massive") deficits of $300B! For ****'s sake...we've lost all perspective.

The larger issue in this country is not Democrat vs. Republican. That's the game they have trapped you into. The larger game is Democrat & Republican vs. the American people. But your so wrapped up with your partisan blinders you're unable to see this. Obama has you wrapped around his little finger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

As trumptman says...there's nothing to engage with here.

 

This is the latest tactic: Declare some thing about the candidate you don't support (pretending it is true only about them and that the candidate you do support isn't doing exactly the same thing.) Then condemn anyone that points out how partisan, blind and hypocritical you're being by not realizing this is happening on both sides.

 

There's nothing here. Your posts have become the definition of vacuous.

 

Am I trying to derail the thread? Sure. If only to get it on to a more meaningful subject of the general and more widespread lying, deception and misdirection coming out of the two major political parties and their candidates. You want to put all of the focus on only one while entirely ignoring the other. Are you, along with Hands, in the employ of the Obama campaign also?!

 

The larger issue in this country is not Democrat vs. Republican. That's the game they have trapped you into. The larger game is Democrat & Republican vs. the American people. But your so wrapped up with your partisan blinders you're unable to see this. Obama has you wrapped around his little finger.

Except that the OP's post was no different to the stuff that the rest of you post - links and arguments of varying validity criticizing the "other" party. In this case quite widely reported criticisms of Ryan's speech that seem like perfectly good discussion items to me. I hope you don't mean "nothing to engage" just because you disagree with the content. And, despite claiming "nothing to engage", Trumptman engaged the first point rather well. So what about the rest of the links? Nothing to engage, or just too difficult to engage, so easier just to ridicule and ignore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

Except that the OP's post was no different to the stuff that the rest of you post - links and arguments of varying validity criticizing the "other" party. In this case quite widely reported criticisms of Ryan's speech that seem like perfectly good discussion items to me.

So we're all going to sit around sharing our opinions about other people's opinions because they happen to be widely reported? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

I hope you don't mean "nothing to engage" just because you disagree with the content.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

Except that the OP's post was no different to the stuff that the rest of you post - links and arguments of varying validity criticizing the "other" party. In this case quite widely reported criticisms of Ryan's speech that seem like perfectly good discussion items to me.

 

So we're all going to sit around sharing our opinions about other people's opinions because they happen to be widely reported? :rolleyes:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

I hope you don't mean "nothing to engage" just because you disagree with the content.

 

Nope.

You mean sharing your thoughts on a speech at the RNC by the Republican VP candiate? What, exactly, do you think a political discussion forum is for if not that kind of discussion? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

You mean sharing your thoughts on a speech at the RNC by the Republican VP candiate? What, exactly, do you think a political discussion forum is for if not that kind of discussion? 

OK. Let's stop the disingenuousness shall we?

This thread was created with the specific allegation of one particular candidate lying in one of his speeches. Fine.

But the overall implication is that this is something that only one candidate or party is doing. Which is a lie itself.

To engage in this specific allegation is simply to continue to engage in the superficial gamesmanship between two allegedly radically different parties and candidates and to go along with the implication that one is honest and the other dishonest. That one 'thinks you are bunch of idiots' and the other respects your intelligence and wisdom. To engage in this is to engage in the Packers vs. Bears or Coke vs. Pepsi politics.

This is a distraction from the larger, wider and deeper issues that the country faces: They are both lying to us. They both think we're a bunch of idiots. They are both on a path to bankrupt the country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

You mean sharing your thoughts on a speech at the RNC by the Republican VP candiate? What, exactly, do you think a political discussion forum is for if not that kind of discussion? 

 

1.  OK. Let's stop the disingenuousness shall we?

 

2.  This thread was created with the specific allegation of one particular candidate lying in one of his speeches. Fine.

 

3.  But the overall implication is that this is something that only one candidate or party is doing. Which is a lie itself.

 

4.  To engage in this specific allegation is simply to continue to engage in the superficial gamesmanship between two allegedly radically different parties and candidates and to go along with the implication that one is honest and the other dishonest. That one 'thinks you are bunch of idiots' and the other respects your intelligence and wisdom.

 

5.  This is a distraction from the larger, wider and deeper issues that the country faces: They are both lying to us. They both think we're a bunch of idiots. They are both on a path to bankrupt the country.

1.  There was nothing disingenuous about the OP's post - it's thesis was transparent.

2.  Yes. Unnecessarily provocative title, but that was the allegation.

3.  You inferred that, possibly accurately even though that was not stated, but it does not, per se, invalidate the content of the post.

4.  Any meaningful discussion or argument has to engage specific points, otherwise it has no substance. It doesn't mean that you are restricted to your opponent's points though.

5.  The election is a distraction? Maybe, but it's there and it matters, unless you are arguing that the outcome makes no difference. Is that your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

1.  There was nothing disingenuous about the OP's post - it's thesis was transparent.

 

2.  Yes. Unnecessarily provocative title, but that was the allegation.

 

3.  You inferred that, possibly accurately even though that was not stated, but it does not, per se, invalidate the content of the post.

 

4.  Any meaningful discussion or argument has to engage specific points, otherwise it has no substance. It doesn't mean that you are restricted to your opponent's points though.

 

5.  The election is a distraction? Maybe, but it's there and it matters, unless you are arguing that the outcome makes no difference. Is that your point?

1. I was referring to yours.

4. Yes and the point I'm engaging is that the points raised in the OP are a distraction from the larger and more important issues in an attempt to engage in Packers vs. Bears bickering.

5. This kind of "discussion" is a distraction. The election matters very little in my opinion and the outcome will make very little difference.

You know what this is like?

In the past (maybe even still now) there was a pizza place called "Little Caesar's" that used to regularly advertise: "Some pizza places don't use real cheese on their pizza's!" That was pretty much all it said. Turns out it was them!

That's what this thread (and other threads and posts like it are): "That politician is lying." Well, sure, true. OK. But so is the one making the accusation (or the accusee's opponent.) This is a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

1.  There was nothing disingenuous about the OP's post - it's thesis was transparent.

 

2.  Yes. Unnecessarily provocative title, but that was the allegation.

 

3.  You inferred that, possibly accurately even though that was not stated, but it does not, per se, invalidate the content of the post.

 

4.  Any meaningful discussion or argument has to engage specific points, otherwise it has no substance. It doesn't mean that you are restricted to your opponent's points though.

 

5.  The election is a distraction? Maybe, but it's there and it matters, unless you are arguing that the outcome makes no difference. Is that your point?

 

1. I was referring to yours.

 

4. Yes and the point I'm engaging is that the points raised in the OP are a distraction from the larger and more important issues in an attempt to engage in Packers vs. Bears bickering.

 

5. This kind of "discussion" is a distraction. The election matters very little in my opinion and the outcome will make very little difference.

 

You know what this is like?

 

In the past (maybe even still now) there was a pizza place called "Little Caesar's" that used to regularly advertise: "Some pizza places don't use real cheese on their pizza's!" That was pretty much all it said. Turns out it was them!

 

That's what this thread (and other threads and posts like it are): "That politician is lying." Well, true. Sure. But so is the one making the accusation.

Thanks for the clarification. If the election is irrelevant then your position makes sense. I have no idea what you might have identified as disingenuous in my post, and I'm guessing that you have no interest in elaborating?

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

Thanks for the clarification. If the election is irrelevant then your position makes sense.

Sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

I have no idea what you might have identified as disingenuous in my post, and I'm guessing that you have no interest in elaborating?

Perhaps I misread you but I interpreted your statement:

To mean that you actually believe that's what this thread was really intended to be about.

I apologize.

I gave clear criteria for redressing the rest of the points. BR does not engage in conversation or discussion here on the forums. He engages in rants, tirades and bouts of profanity, ridden personal attacks. He isn't credible if he isn't willing to make real assertions and defend them, then no one need refute them.

Here's a good example of another opinion piece addressing what I mentioned before in the first post. A "fact check" should be an actual piece of news, not an editorial or opinion piece passing itself off as an actual piece of news.

The media has truly gone off the deep end. The facts in no form or fashion support the re-election of Barack Obama. The liberal media has gone beyond slanting their news, making sure all their personalities doing their "analysis" are incredibly liberal, and selectively covering certain stories. They've gone into outright propaganda. They make up "facts" and declare via opinion pieces that they have "fact checked" someone with a talking head spouting lies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

Thanks for the clarification. If the election is irrelevant then your position makes sense.

 

Sure.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

I have no idea what you might have identified as disingenuous in my post, and I'm guessing that you have no interest in elaborating?

 

Perhaps I misread you but I interpreted your statement:

 

 

Quote:

You mean sharing your thoughts on a speech at the RNC by the Republican VP candiate?

 

To mean that you actually believe that's what this thread was really intended to be about.

 

I apologize.

No worries. I did actually hope that this thread might evolve into that discussion, because I was somewhat surprised by a few of the things that Ryan said. Maybe had the subject been raised less emotionally that might have happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

 

No worries. I did actually hope that this thread might evolve into that discussion, because I was somewhat surprised by a few of the things that Ryan said. Maybe had the subject been raised less emotionally that might have happened.

Many of us are willing and eager to have serious, civil discussions about politics and current events, but from the title alone, it's apparent this thread was intended to provoke people into virtual fisticuffs.

Flame.  Bait.  Goodbye.  

All politicians are fucking liars *end thread*

Because he is a Republican who adheres to the lies of the party and knows no better.I agree with you on this.R & R two peas in a pod who are complete and utter liars.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

And this started where? ( wink if I could )

 

January 2009.

Horse shit. It was very noticable before that. Well before that. And you know it. We already had a big problem when Obama took office. And please don't go on about how it got so bad after that. Someone had to do something as Bush had done something only at the last min. to not appear the slacker that he was. No MJ we had a bad problem BEFORE

As a matter of fact you can go all the way back to 2003 when ( while we were already just starting to come out of feeling the effects of a recession ) Bush spent huge amounts of money on that stupid war in Iraq! I mean we are talking about the same guy who blew through a surplus when he started in 6 months. And look what he handed Obama and the rest of the country when he left office.

Typical.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/31/13592523-romneys-health-plan-war-kept-out-of-rnc-spotlight?lite&__utma=238145375.1451631187.1346202519.1346373095.1346508564.6&__utmb=238145375.1.10.1346508564&__utmc=238145375&__utmx=-&__utmz=238145375.1346508564.6.6.utmcsr=nbcnews.com|utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=238145375.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Cpolitics%7Cpolitics=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.msnbc.msn.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Internal%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=97077596

Gee I wonder why? ( not )

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Horse shit. It was very noticable before that. Well before that. And you know it. We already had a big problem when Obama took office. And please don't go on about how it got so bad after that. Someone had to do something as Bush had done something only at the last min. to not appear the slacker that he was. No MJ we had a bad problem BEFORE

 

As a matter of fact you can go all the way back to 2003 when ( while we were already just starting to come out of feeling the effects of a recession ) Bush spent huge amounts of money on that stupid war in Iraq! I mean we are talking about the same guy who blew through a surplus when he started in 6 months. And look what he handed Obama and the rest of the country when he left office.

I never claimed there weren't problems before January 2009. Only a fool would claim that.

But Obama made things worse and has drawn things out with his policies.

We can look at the charts. Unemployment was going up faster and higher as was spending, deficit and debt since January 2009. These are facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ1970 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Horse shit. It was very noticable before that. Well before that. And you know it. We already had a big problem when Obama took office. And please don't go on about how it got so bad after that. Someone had to do something as Bush had done something only at the last min. to not appear the slacker that he was. No MJ we had a bad problem BEFORE

 

As a matter of fact you can go all the way back to 2003 when ( while we were already just starting to come out of feeling the effects of a recession ) Bush spent huge amounts of money on that stupid war in Iraq! I mean we are talking about the same guy who blew through a surplus when he started in 6 months. And look what he handed Obama and the rest of the country when he left office.

 

I never claimed there weren't problems before January 2009. Only a fool would claim that.

 

But Obama made things worse and has drawn things out with his policies.

 

We can look at the charts. Unemployment was going up faster and higher as was spending, deficit and debt since January 2009. These are facts.

Horse Shit. Those same problems ( that were already present ) are what led to the situation we have now. They aren't separate. I still maintain someone had to do something to keep it from getting much worse ( even if it cost us ). Yes MJ even if you don't feel that way or acknowledge it. I feel these are facts also. I also feel Romney would make things worse yet again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Horse Shit.

Look! jimmac has learned a new phrase.

You know saying this twice in a row doesn't make you right, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

Those same problems ( that were already present ) are what led to the situation we have now. They aren't separate.

I didn't claim they were. This is just you trying to argue against a straw man. I'm saying that the spiraling spending, even higher deficits and debt and higher unemployment are a result of Obama's actions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmac 

I still maintain someone had to do something to keep it from getting much worse ( even if it cost us ). Yes MJ even if you don't feel that way or acknowledge it. I feel these are facts also. I also feel Romney would make things worse yet again.

You can feel all you want. You can even feel that things are facts. None of that makes it so. We have these facts (we don't have to feel that they are facts, they are facts all on their own):

1. Spending is higher under Obama.

2. Deficits are much higher under Obama.

3. The debt is much higher under Obama.

4. Unemployment is higher under Obama (and was much, much higher under Obama for a lengthy period of time.)

5. Workforce participation is lower under Obama.

6. Private sector job creation has not even kept up with population growth under Obama.

Undebatable questions:

• Did Obama inherit a mess? Sure.
• Did he make it better? Definitely not.

Debatable questions:

• Did he prevent it from getting worse? Highly debatable. In fact there's a lot of reason to believe the actions he took would predictably make things worse and would not prevent things from getting worse, only prolong a bad situation.
• Did he make things worse short term but better long term? Can't know now, but highly debatable. More likely he, at best, just kicked the can down the road.