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Apple's new iMac expected to be redesigned without Retina display

post #1 of 126
Thread Starter 
Apple's iMac will reportedly receive a hardware redesign before the end of the year, but the desktop won't receive a high-resolution Retina display.

Two new iMac models in sizes 21.5 and 27 inches were detailed on Friday by analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities as two of the eight new products Apple is reportedly preparing to release this fall. Kuo, who has a reliable track record, believes the new 21.5-inch iMac will debut in September, while a larger 27-inch iMac is expected to debut in late October.

According to Kuo, the new iMac will not feature a Retina display this year, but he expects the new Macs to "still prove attractive to consumers." Interest in the new models, beyond the anticipated Ivy Bridge processors, will come from what Kuo said will be a "brand new design."

Display quality on the new iMacs will reportedly be improved with a new "full-lamination process," attaching the display panel to the protective cover glass.

This new production method apparently comes at a cost, though: According to Kuo, the larger 27-inch iMac has a lower yield rate with the new full-lamination method. That's why he expects the 27-inch iMac to debut 6 to 8 weeks after the 21.5-inch model.

Another big seller in the holiday season, Kuo believes, will be the new 13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display. He has predicted that Apple will aggressively price the new MacBook Pro under $1,300, which will help drive strong demand at launch.

iMac


Kuo's predictions call for Apple to ship nearly 1.5 million iMac units in the fourth quarter of calendar 2012. With all other Mac models thrown into the mix, he believes Apple will ship a total of 5.5 million units in the holiday shopping quarter.

If Apple can achieve that number, it would likely ensure a new sales record for the company. Apple's previous best quarter for Macs came in the holiday season of 2011, when the company sold 5.2 million Macs in a three-month span.
post #2 of 126

Of course. Anyone who thought there's production capacity for building Retina 27" screens this year is kidding themselves. They're at least a year or two away.

post #3 of 126
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
Of course. Anyone who thought there's production capacity for building Retina 27" screens this year is kidding themselves. They're at least a year or two away.

 

I said that before the retina MacBook Pro came out. "Maybe Haswell," I said.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #4 of 126

Would not need to be full retina, but maybe a little more?

 

Most important update would be decent cooling so the iMacs wouldn't be running so hot and shut themselves off into sleep mode whenever they work harder for a while (God bless the Power Macs that never fail you!)

post #5 of 126

Retina will come in time, when it becomes practical. (A higher-res conventional—non 2x—display would be awful: tiny print!)

 

Now, please...

 

Make the keys and mouse black.

 

The iMac has not been white for years. Make the keyboard and mouse match! They’d also match the laptops better that way.

 

White cables? Sure—that’s a signature detail of Apple’s, and you don’t even see any cords on most iMac setups. But white keys and mouse? Time to lose that. An all-black-and-aluminum setup would look great!

post #6 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Of course. Anyone who thought there's production capacity for building Retina 27" screens this year is kidding themselves. They're at least a year or two away.

The current 13" MacBook Air (not the purported 13MBArd) would the right density, and would 'double' to a 27" (13.3 -> 26.6).   So if you assume that MBA13rd will consume most of the MBA sales, then there would be production capacity.  

 

But I'm not keen on the source being accurate either way.

post #7 of 126
You must be crazy to think that any regular iMac model will sport a Retina Display. That thing cost too much. Expect it maybe in a customised order for about $3,099??
lvidal.-
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lvidal.-
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post #8 of 126

I wonder if the only advances Apple can make to beat out rivals comes at a cost of loss of yield.  I would imagine those problems would exist for any company trying to follow Apple but Apple could easily absorb the costs better than a smaller company.  H-P makes those All-in-One desktop computers with touch screens.  I'd figure that would be a lot more costly and difficult to build than any of Apple's current iMacs.  Of course, those models probably don't sell nearly as well as iMacs do.  I wonder how hard it is for Apple to keep ahead of competitors and will they be able to keep it up.  I'd say the iPad is about the best shot Apple has to break the Windows empire but Apple will definitely have to keep the pressure on by constantly pushing the envelope.

post #9 of 126

I need a new imac and happy not to have to pay extra $1500-$2000 just for a retina display. I could get a 13" macbook proc as well as the imac which would be perfect.

 

Dobby

post #10 of 126

Apple constantly runs into yield issues because their products are truly cutting edge. For 2 years after the original iPhone, no one could get enough capacitive touchscreens since Apple had snapped up all the good quality ones. Same with the aluminum machining process that used to create the unibody MacBook Pros. No factory has the excess capacity (or permission) to mill a block of aluminum for a competitor.

 

Part of Tim Cook’s supply chain mastery is to be able to pull off feats like this. The design team comes up with whatever components they feel most suitable to the product, and Cook will pull the strings to give them those. Need a new factory? Apple can pay for that. Need firm orders? Apple will overwhelm you.

 

Anyone who says Apple products are simply expansive toys need to get back to the bush now. Will any PC manufacturers dare to pull off this kind of things?

post #11 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobby View Post

I need a new imac and happy not to have to pay extra $1500-$2000 just for a retina display. I could get a 13" macbook proc as well as the imac which would be perfect.

 

Dobby

 

They will still keep the non-retina versions around. The lowest-end iMac G5 model (final generation) was $1700. Now, the cheapest iMac is $1200. Apple worked hard to bring down the price of admission. They won't raise it without good reasons. Mac users are the most loyal users for any brand. They know that once they get you in the house, you will stay forever.

post #12 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvidal View Post

You must be crazy to think that any regular iMac model will sport a Retina Display. That thing cost too much. Expect it maybe in a customised order for about $3,099??

exactly why do you think it would cost 'too much'?   how much does the current 92PPI 21.5 or 109PPI 27" screens cost relative to a 122PPI screen (which would be RD for a 28" viewing radius).  Note that the current MBA is 13" is 128PPI.   4X that glass would be a 27" retina iMac. My guess it's within $200 of their current stuff.  

 

 

And... you do realize that an 'all-in-1' device... you can't custom order a 'screen'?

post #13 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Of course. Anyone who thought there's production capacity for building Retina 27" screens this year is kidding themselves. They're at least a year or two away.

 

Sharp seemed to think it was possible in their April press release

 

Granted, they're not  as far along as what they're demoing currently would imply, but  who knows?

 

It all seems too much to throw at the consumer at the same time.... new iPhone, new ipad mini new touch, new nano, new iMacs. At least one of those should be an incremental upgrade. I guess it should be the iMac, but I'd really like to have an amazing leap like this in the iMacs. 

post #14 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

 

They will still keep the non-retina versions around. The lowest-end iMac G5 model (final generation) was $1700. Now, the cheapest iMac is $1200. Apple worked hard to bring down the price of admission. They won't raise it without good reasons. Mac users are the most loyal users for any brand. They know that once they get you in the house, you will stay forever.

this.  Given that they still need an 'eMac' of some sort.

 

my guess there will be a 21.5 at $999-1099, a 27" at $1499, and a retina version at 22, 26, or 30", with the price point in the 1800/2200/2400 range respectively.   

 

The key thing is that eventually, they need a 'retina' Cinema Display at about 20-25MPixels at 27-32" 16:9 lest they totally p*ss off their Mac Pro customers.   That monitor has to be ~$1000 over 26", and pixel dense.

post #15 of 126
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

The key thing is that eventually, they need a 'retina' Cinema Display at about 20-25MPixels at 27-32" 16:9 lest they totally p*ss off their Mac Pro customers.   That monitor has to be ~$1000 over 26", and pixel dense.

 

Between the 2010 update, the fact that there's no update this year at all (with next year being rather nebulous as well, and the fact that there's STILL no Thunderbolt on the one machine where it will really shine (forcing us to buy old Cinema Displays if we want Apple ones), I think they've already done that. lol.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #16 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Retina will come in time, when it becomes practical. (A higher-res conventional—non 2x—display would be awful: tiny print!)

Now, please...

Make the keys and mouse black.

The iMac has not been white for years. Make the keyboard and mouse match! They’d also match the laptops better that way.

White cables? Sure—that’s a signature detail of Apple’s, and you don’t even see any cords on most iMac setups. But white keys and mouse? Time to lose that. An all-black-and-aluminum setup would look great!

Last time I checked, my keyboard is silver with white keys, whic match the white cables. And my Magic TrackPad is silver.

Your post confuses me.
post #17 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcartesius View Post

Would not need to be full retina, but maybe a little more?

By the math that defines the term, its only like a 11-13% increase to be retina

I still say it won't be anymore line wide than the MacBook pros are but we could still see the high end 27 go retina and even SSD only this year. If they take out the ODD they might be able to fit as many as 4-5 SSD in the chassis and have basically the sme capacity as now.

Hell give me a 40 inch retina cinema display with hdmi to go with my apple tv and I'm set

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #18 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

Apple constantly runs into yield issues because their products are truly cutting edge. For 2 years after the original iPhone, no one could get enough capacitive touchscreens since Apple had snapped up all the good quality ones. Same with the aluminum machining process that used to create the unibody MacBook Pros. No factory has the excess capacity (or permission) to mill a block of aluminum for a competitor.

Part of Tim Cook’s supply chain mastery is to be able to pull off feats like this. The design team comes up with whatever components they feel most suitable to the product, and Cook will pull the strings to give them those. Need a new factory? Apple can pay for that. Need firm orders? Apple will overwhelm you.

Anyone who says Apple products are simply expansive toys need to get back to the bush now. Will any PC manufacturers dare to pull off this kind of things?
Ad yet the iHaters say other companies had retina like (or better) displays before Apple did. lol.gif
post #19 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider 
Another big seller in the holiday season, Kuo believes, will be the new 13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display. He has predicted that Apple will aggressively price the new MacBook Pro under $1,300, which will help drive strong demand at launch.

That's not a prediction, it's just what the guy wants to see Apple do. Every analyst says the same things - Apple should just make everything cheaper to drive demand. Under $1300 puts it just $100 over the current entry model with a 256GB SSD, retina display and possibly/likely a dedicated GPU. They will be taking out the optical but the $400 increase that is seen in the 15" is likely so $1599, maybe $1499 as the volume is higher and 13" displays cheaper but that will have the CPU of the entry $1199 model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav 
Anyone who thought there's production capacity for building Retina 27" screens this year is kidding themselves. They're at least a year or two away.

I expect them to keep the same resolution this year but I don't see how it would be so hard. At the viewing distances the iMac is at, they could probably get away with 2880 x 1620, although I'd prefer a move back to 16:10 and have the exact same resolution as the 15" MBP. That would qualify as retina at iMac viewing distance. Obviously people will immediately stick their faces right up to it and claim they can see the pixels.

The lamination will reduce the yields because there have to be no defects between the glass sheet and the panel - no smudges, no hairs, no cracks. That's on top of the possible defects on the panel itself. This also means they can't have the same design because the glass sheet is currently held in by magnets and they couldn't do that with the panel. They will have to screw it in the bottom so no chin. The Cinema Display design is nice and it could easily go that way without the optical drive wasting space.

Also, Retina MBP shipping times are now listed as 'in stock' so the backlog must be clear. An update for the iMac/Mini could even happen this week sometime.
post #20 of 126

There was never going to be a retina iMac, not even in the next 3 years. The panel build cost alone would add $2000 to the machine build price.

post #21 of 126

I expect I'm going to jump on the 13" rMBP right away. Hopefully it will be available with 16GB of RAM, just like its bigger brother. Having both a Thunderbolt and HDMI port would be a huge advantage over the MBA for me.

 

I'm really curious to see how Apple solves the GPU issue on the smaller machine. Currently, the regular 13" MacBook Pros still run the integrated Intel HD 4000 graphics and don't have a discrete GPU. Would that be remotely powerful enough to handle all the pixels on a Retina Display? Or will they find a way to shoehorn a GeForce GT 650M in there?

post #22 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedd View Post

There was never going to be a retina iMac, not even in the next 3 years. The panel build cost alone would add $2000 to the machine build price.

 

I doubt that.  Manufacturers are already making noises about 4K UHDTV TVs coming out within the next 12 months.  They run at double the standard 1080p HD resolution, or 3840 x 2160 (4 times the pixels of today's HD).  If televisions are coming, you can bet monitors will hit too, and hit within the next 24 months.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Apple be one of the first to adopt that resolution, just as they were one of the first to adopt WQHD (2560 x 1440, double 720p HD) with the 27" iMac.

post #23 of 126
Originally Posted by Zedd View Post
There was never going to be a retina iMac, not even in the next 3 years. The panel build cost alone would add $2000 to the machine build price.

 

Nonsense on both counts.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #24 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
An update for the iMac/Mini could even happen this week sometime.

 

I think I just started crying tears of joy lol... 

post #25 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

 

I doubt that.  Manufacturers are already making noises about 4K UHDTV TVs coming out within the next 12 months.

 

4k means nothing. Thats simply resolution, not DPI.

You're talking about 3840 x 2160 on TVs 36-82", we are talking 5120 x 2880 on a 27" display.

Basically, you're talking about putting a V12 in a truck while we are talking about putting a V12 in a Beetle.

post #26 of 126
Add Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, add Blu Ray (kidding) and make flash storage standard.
post #27 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Retina will come in time, when it becomes practical. (A higher-res conventional—non 2x—display would be awful: tiny print!)

 

Now, please...

 

Make the keys and mouse black.

 

The iMac has not been white for years. Make the keyboard and mouse match! They’d also match the laptops better that way.

 

White cables? Sure—that’s a signature detail of Apple’s, and you don’t even see any cords on most iMac setups. But white keys and mouse? Time to lose that. An all-black-and-aluminum setup would look great!

 

Mouse? Who still uses a mouse? Mice are so outdated.

 

Apple's Trackpad is the best way to navigate any Mac.

post #28 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Add Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, add Blu Ray (kidding) and make flash storage standard.

 

 

BluRay...   hahahah.  Had to get an external drive for that.

 

Agree on the other two.  Especially all flash storage.  Have the current 27" with SSD + HD.  I sometimes forget about the HD... until it has to spin up. 


Edited by Bergermeister - 8/31/12 at 6:53pm

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #29 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


BluRay...   hahahah.  Had to get an external drive for that.

Hence the kidding part. I guess you agree with everything else?
post #30 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post


Hence the kidding part. I guess you agree with everything else?

 

Note my edit.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #31 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Retina will come in time, when it becomes practical. (A higher-res conventional—non 2x—display would be awful: tiny print!)

 

Now, please...

 

Make the keys and mouse black.

 

The iMac has not been white for years. Make the keyboard and mouse match! They’d also match the laptops better that way.

 

White cables? Sure—that’s a signature detail of Apple’s, and you don’t even see any cords on most iMac setups. But white keys and mouse? Time to lose that. An all-black-and-aluminum setup would look great!

 

I agree with you on the black keys.  Personally, I would like it if they could make the top of the mouse out of aluminum as well and have the bottom plastic black.  Just a nice to have though as the design of both are still very elegant.

post #32 of 126

What resolution would the iMac 27' need to be Retina? 4K? even higher res that that? :O

post #33 of 126
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
What resolution would the iMac 27' need to be Retina? 4K? even higher res that that? :O

 

Double it, 5120x2880, and you get 217 PPI. Double that, 10240x5760 and you get 435 PPI, which is "too" high.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #34 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Double it, 5120x2880, and you get 217 PPI. Double that, 10240x5760 and you get 435 PPI, which is "too" high.

Yeah, that'd deffo be over 4K, which would make it a pain in the ass to manufacture, BUT all the companies making 4K movies and TV shows and shit, would buy one for sure.

post #35 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedd View Post

 

4k means nothing. Thats simply resolution, not DPI.

You're talking about 3840 x 2160 on TVs 36-82", we are talking 5120 x 2880 on a 27" display.

Basically, you're talking about putting a V12 in a truck while we are talking about putting a V12 in a Beetle.

Yes, I know resolution doesn't = DPI, but the fact that they're JUST coming out with 4K panels, should tell you a thing or two about when to expect such a monitor.

post #36 of 126
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
Yeah, that'd deffo be over 4K, which would make it a pain in the ass to manufacture, BUT all the companies making 4K movies and TV shows and shit, would buy one for sure.

 

Forget 4k, anyway. Super Hi-Vision. That's the only kind of television (dumb screen-based) I'd accept or expect from Apple. It's retina! After that, no more stupid marketing about resolutions because you physically can't see any higher. And audio, my stars. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #37 of 126
Another way to look at this is that 4k displays are just around the corner. I don't know what Apple will put in the iMac and I don't really care, however I won't say Retina is impossible this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

Sharp seemed to think it was possible in their April press release

Granted, they're not  as far along as what they're demoing currently would imply, but  who knows?

It all seems too much to throw at the consumer at the same time.... new iPhone, new ipad mini new touch, new nano, new iMacs. At least one of those should be an incremental upgrade. I guess it should be the iMac, but I'd really like to have an amazing leap like this in the iMacs. 
post #38 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Retina will come in time, when it becomes practical. (A higher-res conventional—non 2x—display would be awful: tiny print!)


Wouldn't be if OS X handled resolution scaling properly...

EDIT: And a 3840*2160 resolution in a 21.5" screen is just stupidly overkill.

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

Reply

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

Reply
post #39 of 126
iMac in Sept huh?

I need one Tuesday, that is September, right? What do you think my odds are?
OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
Reply
OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
Reply
post #40 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn View Post
Also Tallest has a sense of that I don't think many people pick up. 

I pick up on nonsense very easily, as many people do.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You realize that we get all reports, right? lol.gif

Der, really?

I've moderated plenty of forums. I knew you would receive it. To put in simple words for you, I intended for you to see it.

 

Quote:
And to top it all off, YOU were banned from there, too.

Sorry, that is false information.

I have never been banned from there and my account is still in good standing. To put in simple words for you again, "Zedd" is not my username there.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Add Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, add Blu Ray (kidding) and make flash storage standard.

 

Are you serious? A $2000 display AND flash storage? Would you really buy a $5000 AIO desktop?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post

Yes, I know resolution doesn't = DPI, but the fact that they're JUST coming out with 4K panels, should tell you a thing or two about when to expect such a monitor.

They are "just" coming out with 4K displays for two reasons: There is zero 4K content and there is little hardware powerful enough to drive it besides a full-blown PC.

2 out of 3 current game consoles can barely put out 1080p. Don't expect a 4K capable home game console like Toshiba used for their 4k demo screen until 2020 at the very earliest.

The only real use for a 4K screen over the next 1-3 years is to display 4 HDTV streams. They won't be much good as PC or workstation monitors because, as mentioned before, they will all be 36"+. 27" is already over the top for a consumer desktop. Personally, they should have left well enough alone with the 24" screen.


Edited by Zedd - 8/31/12 at 10:43pm
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