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Nokia unveils Lumia 920 with 4.5" display, PureView camera - Page 5

post #161 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's irrelevant as to whether it's pure digital, or part digital, in the way it's calculated, and then a mechanical part is moved. The big difference is that optical uses a rather expensive optical corrector moved by very precise motors, and the other involves the sensor. That's really the big deal.
Optical stab. does make lenses much more expensive. Much more. Hundreds of dollars more.
Some examples from Canon, the inventor of optical stab.:
The best known lens:
EF 70-200Mm f:2.8 IS II USM = $2,500. I have this lens, and it's a great one.
Same exact lens, but without stab.: $1,340
Of course, non pro lenses are very much cheaper than the pro versions. Their stab is Also cheaper, and doesn't do as well. Some of those lenses are in the mid hundreds and up. A. un-stab version might go for $200, and a stab version for $450.
This is one reason why optical stab isn't used by most companies, except for camcorders, most of the time, or at least for the more expensive models. But those lenses are very much smaller than ones for even 4:3 cameras.

I believe that shifting mechanism is not much different in sensor and lens shifting, main difference is what is being shifted... But that is not the point - I just wanted to clear are we talking about digital stabilisation or about sensor shift stabilisation, is all.

Apologies to others for sidetracking off the topic.
post #162 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


Although IMO it is important to see and understand what the competition is offering, you asked the wrong question. The right question is, would you consider a Phone running Microsoft? And the resounding answer would be NO! To even put the phrase "even if better" is laughable.

That answer makes no sense.  If a company makes something that is good for you it should not matter what company it is.  The exception to this could be a company who's ethics you disapprove of.  Now while you could say that you disapprove with MS's ethics in the past I don't think that could apply today.

post #163 of 239

post #164 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


It's irrelevant as to whether it's pure digital, or part digital, in the way it's calculated, and then a mechanical part is moved. The big difference is that optical uses a rather expensive optical corrector moved by very precise motors, and the other involves the sensor. That's really the big deal.
Optical stab. does make lenses much more expensive. Much more. Hundreds of dollars more.
Some examples from Canon, the inventor of optical stab.:
The best known lens:
EF 70-200Mm f:2.8 IS II USM = $2,500. I have this lens, and it's a great one.
Same exact lens, but without stab.: $1,340
Of course, non pro lenses are very much cheaper than the pro versions. Their stab is Also cheaper, and doesn't do as well. Some of those lenses are in the mid hundreds and up. A. un-stab version might go for $200, and a stab version for $450.
This is one reason why optical stab isn't used by most companies, except for camcorders, most of the time, or at least for the more expensive models. But those lenses are very much smaller than ones for even 4:3 cameras.

 

Your information is wrong.

 

Optical Image Stabilization (OIS) is used on many cameras, from compact upwards. Panasonic, for example, uses it on many of their point-and-shoot models, and have for years. Both them and Olympus also use it on their Micro Four Thirds models. The cheap kit lens on my Panasonic G3 comes standard with it, as do most of their zoom lenses.

 

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/ois/index.html

 

And for the record, the OIS on the Nokia 920 moves the entire sensor assembly, not just the lenses. There is a real comparison to a non-OIS smartphone using a proto 920 on YouTube already. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HSbhyaH0vw.

post #165 of 239

With the right software the PureView camera should be able to take pictures more reminiscent of film because of its high dynamic range. Finally digital cameras are catching up again.

post #166 of 239

I got a Lumia 900 to replace my iPhone 4 because, and we all know this is true, Apple is getting complacent with the iPhone.

They aren't creating new and exciting technology anymore, they're just reacting to the competition:

  • Apple said 7" screens were bad - the market for 7" screens explodes - Apple makes a 7" screen
  • Market for large form factor phones explodes - Apple rush to make a larger screen
  • NFC is becoming the big thing - Apple will include it sooner or later and call it magical

 

And so on and so forth. They used to set the bar but now they're just trying to play catch up with a little bit of "me too!" thrown in there as well.

 

I just find it hilarious that the new Lumia range is currently one of the most hyped phones right now. Some android phones may get an article or two on a tech site but the Lumia has iPhone style coverage right now! Everyone is going batty for this device and I can see why. Its got style, its got power, its got bleeding edge features.

 

What will the iPhone 5 give us?

Last years processor (A5X), same screen but slightly longer and a poor excuse for a wallet without NFC. The back might be made out of metal as well.

 

Fan-freaking-tastic. Excuse me whilst I polish the edge of my seat. /s

 

Unless the iPhone 5 has all the features of the Nokia with either better implementation or "then some" then I'll just write it off. The world has had a taste of what Samsung and Nokia are capable of and the iPhone is quickly becoming less special by the day.

 

 

P.S. I still think the Mac is the greatest line of computers currently available and the iPad is one of the best tablets on the market. Just thought I'd clear that up before someone claims I'm a trolling Apple hater.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #167 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post
  • NFC is becoming the big thing - Apple will include it sooner or later and call it magical

They will most certainly not call it NFC, but something like iMagic. It will of course not be compatible with any standards, and iFans will hype it to the heaven.

post #168 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Unified search, slide to unlock, scrolling bounce and the other things they worked around to get around the import ban imposed by the ITC.


I had unified search on my Windows desktop, by Google, years before the iPhone was announced. Also, these patents are ridiculous. Nokia invented the smartphone. How about only they can make them. I'm pretty sure they've got the patents..

post #169 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Well, the point is that everyone *is* just reading the specs and shooting from the hip at this point.  Most of that shooting has been following Nokia's PR crapola and assuming this is a far better camera.  I was just pointing out that based on the released specs it's essentially in the very same ballpark as any other camera on a modern smartphone.  

 

Optical versus digital stabilisation is an argument that can go on forever.  All I can say is many industry people I have talked to say that it's "6 of one and half a dozen of the other" so that's why I repeated that.  

 

Overall, I'm forced to assume that this *isn't* a better camera than the iPhone 4S or if it is it is only marginally so.  The main reason I say that is Nokia's total misrepresentation of "purview" technology as well as the fact that they faked the video showing how good the camera is!  Those two things together imply quite strongly to me that this isn't a great camera.   

 

Ooooooo, Industry experts, I'm so impressed.

 

I have an Olympus E-M5 which has an incredible 5 axis in body image stabilisation system which no digital IS can come close to matching, so your industry experts need to get up to speed.  Anadtech tried a Lumia 920 and it did rather better in low light than an iPhone:

 

 

I told you so.

post #170 of 239

Nokia really messed up yesterday when they released that fake.  However there is now a real video out of it in use:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhhBJ1URCg&feature=player_embedded#!

 

Before anyone says 'it used a flash', all good cameras use a flash to focus. The picture itself is taken in the dark after the flash.

 

Shows what an F2.0 lens and hardware IS can do.
 

post #171 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

I got a Lumia 900 to replace my iPhone 4 because, and we all know this is true, Apple is getting complacent with the iPhone.

They aren't creating new and exciting technology anymore, they're just reacting to the competition:

  • Apple said 7" screens were bad - the market for 7" screens explodes - Apple makes a 7" screen
  • Market for large form factor phones explodes - Apple rush to make a larger screen
  • NFC is becoming the big thing - Apple will include it sooner or later and call it magical

 

 

 

 

You realize that Jobs has been known to retract previous statements and/or just say things just to throw people off.

post #172 of 239
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post
…we all know this is true, Apple is getting complacent with the iPhone.

 

Except nope. Because it isn't.

 

They aren't creating new and exciting technology anymore…

 

Of course they are.

 

NFC is becoming the big thing - Apple will include it sooner or later and call it magical

 

Not even gonna quote the 7" screen bit, because it hasn't happened. But this? It's not becoming big at all. It will after Apple makes it big, and then you'll pretend it was big to begin with, but not right now.

 

I just find it hilarious that the new Lumia range is currently one of the most hyped phones right now.

 

 

What will the iPhone 5 give us?

Last years processor (A5X), same screen but slightly longer and a poor excuse for a wallet without NFC. The back might be made out of metal as well.

 

"Yeah, I'll mock and deride a phone I know absolutely nothing about! That'll get me believers."

 

The world has had a taste of what Samsung and Nokia are capable of…

 

Copying and second-besting?

 

P.S. I still think the Mac is the greatest line of computers currently available and the iPad is one of the best tablets on the market. Just thought I'd clear that up before someone claims I'm a trolling Apple hater.

 

Except they all specifically mention that, just like you have here, as though it means anything whatsoever.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #173 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoonerYoda View Post

 

 

You realize that Jobs has been known to retract previous statements and/or just say things just to throw people off.

Or, better argument. He's no longer with us, no longer has influence over Apple, Apple want the money.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realwarder View Post

Nokia really messed up yesterday when they released that fake.  However there is now a real video out of it in use:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhhBJ1URCg&feature=player_embedded#!

 

Before anyone says 'it used a flash', all good cameras use a flash to focus. The picture itself is taken in the dark after the flash.

 

Shows what an F2.0 lens and hardware IS can do.
 

That, I think, is worthy of the Pureview branding. That picture in the video looked stunning.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #174 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Except nope. Because it isn't.

 

 

Of course they are.

 

 

Not even gonna quote the 7" screen bit, because it hasn't happened. But this? It's not becoming big at all. It will after Apple makes it big, and then you'll pretend it was big to begin with, but not right now.

 

 

 

 

"Yeah, I'll mock and deride a phone I know absolutely nothing about! That'll get me believers."

 

 

Copying and second-besting?

 

 

 

Except they all specifically mention that, just like you have here, as though it means anything whatsoever.

Welp, nice to know people weren't lying about you. Someone has a different opinion (remember when you said opinions were good?) and you start trying to start a flame war. :)

 

You can't ignore it, Apple have not done anything noteworthy with the iPhone since the initial release of the iPhone 4. If they follow their usual routine then we will get an A5X, we've seen (right here on this site, actually) that passbook is not a wallet (just a glorified coupon book) and there is no wallet in beta builds of iOS 6, that does not bode well for NFC support. Stocks also do not govern the media coverage the devices are getting, and unless they do actually put some new technology inside the iPhone hardware, then I'll stick to my original notion of Apple is not making any new and exciting technology - just last years shit in a different dress.

 

I want to be proven wrong, but its very hard to ignore the glaring evidence presented to us all.

 

 

 

Now stop being a hypocrite and let people have their opinions, then we'll let you have yours. :)

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #175 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobborries View Post

What happened to these colors?

 


Wow, you are so funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why is every Apple website reporting on this thing? Why do we care?

Because this "thing" is the most innovative smartphone to come out since the original iPhone. Maybe if you dropped the 2-liter kool aid bottle for a second and read what it's got you could figure that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

They keep releasing products no one is buying. 

Go to The Verge, Giz, Anand, etc. There are plenty of impressed people over there. And plenty of "Goodbye iPhone/Android!" comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberzombie View Post

Has a mention of battery life come up?

It has a 2000mAh battery, close to the Galaxy S3's 2100 (I think). The processor however is 30% more energy efficient, not to mention how much Windows Phone is more efficient than Android...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Is the implication that you think this is better than Apple's offerings? Can you really say that until the 12th? Of course I look around at other things.

 

Calling it now. The "Amazing new iPhone 5" has a STUNNING 4" display that is just a stretched standard Retina, thus neither as bright, sensible, or fast as the one found in the Lumia, INCREDIBLY FAST processor that barely keeps up with the S3 and the 920, and a 12mp camera that is a minor improvement and doesn't get near the PureView because the sensor is too small and there's no hardware stabilization to allow for longer exposure times. Battery probably will go up from 1400 to 1600 mAh, not meaning much since the 4S has unimpressive battery life (I have one right here). And it'll run the same tired iOS we know and love (or are sick of).

It will also sell millions more than the Lumia. Because, as someone in this thread ironically said "People have no taste"

Quote:
Blah, blah, FUD, blah blah, gloom and doom… THIS is why I don't like seeing competitor crap here. Pulls the trolls even further out of the woodwork.

How you got to be a moderator is a mystery, on the other hand.

And how exactly was that FUD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSince86 View Post

Yecch... hideous. It hurts the eyes to even look at those phones and displays. As Steve Jobs said of Microsoft, they just have no taste.

Funny, I could say the same of iOS. And just so you know, yellow is not the only color. We're not talking about monochrome Apple, remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

 

You forget NFC! It has NFC, and a 2000 mAh battery! But wait for Apple to bring the amazing new iPhone with... a new connectooooor!!! Aaaand it's thinneeer!!! It's magic!
 
And its GORGEOUS 4" display to give you EVEN MORE of the web and your apps, don't you forget!

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
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post #176 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Except nope. Because it isn't.


No because no? W O W.

I was going to quote the rest of your post, but that's such a waste of time, isn't it?

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post #177 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It's not going to take off. Let's face it, it sucks and very few will be sold.

It destroys current smartphones and the predicted iPhone 5. Come again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post


 
This too ^




 
Wow I didn't know Apple made a version of the iPhone 4 running iOS 3, with no front camera, AND that looks exactly like the iPhone 3G/3GS!

That this error wasn't caught during the trial (apparently) is even more telling of Apple's "innovation"

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

Welp, nice to know people weren't lying about you. Someone has a different opinion (remember when you said opinions were good?) and you start trying to start a flame war. :)

 

You can't ignore it, Apple have not done anything noteworthy with the iPhone since the initial release of the iPhone 4. If they follow their usual routine then we will get an A5X, we've seen (right here on this site, actually) that passbook is not a wallet (just a glorified coupon book) and there is no wallet in beta builds of iOS 6, that does not bode well for NFC support. Stocks also do not govern the media coverage the devices are getting, and unless they do actually put some new technology inside the iPhone hardware, then I'll stick to my original notion of Apple is not making any new and exciting technology - just last years shit in a different dress.

 

I want to be proven wrong, but its very hard to ignore the glaring evidence presented to us all.

Just emphasizing.

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
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post #178 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post






That being said, most analysis I managed to find on the web agree that stock drop is because of availability date and prices not being announced yet, not because phones are lacking.

Additionally, I recall that Apple's stock often drops a bit after new products announcement.
post #179 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I believe that shifting mechanism is not much different in sensor and lens shifting, main difference is what is being shifted... But that is not the point - I just wanted to clear are we talking about digital stabilisation or about sensor shift stabilisation, is all.
Apologies to others for sidetracking off the topic.

I consider shifting the sensor as digital, because it's calculated digitally, and controlled digitally. If you like, we can call it a digital/mechanical hybrid.

Optical is very different. The original systems weren't digitally controlled. But it does require a very precise optical module, which is expensive, often costing more than an entire camera body including a digital anti shake module. The lens doesn shift, of course, just that optical module at the nodal point inside.

It's very different than moving a tiny sensor.
post #180 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyfanning View Post

Your information is wrong.

Optical Image Stabilization (OIS) is used on many cameras, from compact upwards. Panasonic, for example, uses it on many of their point-and-shoot models, and have for years. Both them and Olympus also use it on their Micro Four Thirds models. The cheap kit lens on my Panasonic G3 comes standard with it, as do most of their zoom lenses.

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/ois/index.html

And for the record, the OIS on the Nokia 920 moves the entire sensor assembly, not just the lenses. There is a real comparison to a non-OIS smartphone using a proto 920 on YouTube already. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HSbhyaH0vw.

Well, I'm surprised it's used so much, it wasn't just a few years ago. Manufacturers were moving in droves to sensor based mechanisms. Still, most manufacturers don't use optical.
post #181 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Ooooooo, Industry experts, I'm so impressed.

I have an Olympus E-M5 which has an incredible 5 axis in body image stabilisation system which no digital IS can come close to matching, so your industry experts need to get up to speed.  Anadtech tried a Lumia 920 and it did rather better in low light than an iPhone:



I told you so.

New model, not available for a good two months, compared to an old model about to be discontinued. Not a great comparison.
post #182 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

Or, better argument. He's no longer with us, no longer has influence over Apple, Apple want the money.

That, I think, is worthy of the Pureview branding. That picture in the video looked stunning.

The picture in the video was fake.
post #183 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


New model, not available for a good two months, compared to an old model about to be discontinued. Not a great comparison.


If you actually think Apple's going to do anything other than increase MP, I have bad news for you.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


The picture in the video was fake.


How? We saw him taking it.

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post #184 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

Welp, nice to know people weren't lying about you. Someone has a different opinion (remember when you said opinions were good?) and you start trying to start a flame war. 1smile.gif

You can't ignore it, Apple have not done anything noteworthy with the iPhone since the initial release of the iPhone 4. If they follow their usual routine then we will get an A5X, we've seen (right here on this site, actually) that passbook is not a wallet (just a glorified coupon book) and there is no wallet in beta builds of iOS 6, that does not bode well for NFC support. Stocks also do not govern the media coverage the devices are getting, and unless they do actually put some new technology inside the iPhone hardware, then I'll stick to my original notion of Apple is not making any new and exciting technology - just last years shit in a different dress.

I want to be proven wrong, but its very hard to ignore the glaring evidence presented to us all.



Now stop being a hypocrite and let people have their opinions, then we'll let you have yours. 1smile.gif

No, you don't want to be "proven" wrong. You're very happy to be making these statements, and to keep thinking this way.

I don't even know what the big fuss about NFC is all about. When you think about it, you realize how limited it is. You must swipe over a terminal. Apple's system is much better. I've bought a number of things in the stores with the app in my iPhone. You don't have to stand in line to swipe a terminal. You can do it anywhere in the store.

And then, some talk about security. Well, it's been found out that NFC isn't secure after all, and the BT 4 Apple is using, is more secure. So, that's one argument out the door.

There's no evidence that Google's wallet is successful. In fact, the evidence is that it's not. We have the major credit companies lining up with their version. We have the phone companies lining up with theirs, and we have the banks lining up with theirs.

Standards? Forget it! Everyone wants a part of what they think will be a large pie, and they all want to control it.

Apple is said to have the best chance, without NFC, possibly. We see a number of large companies using Apple's system.

But there's another thing that must be spoken about, and that's store security. Most stores have these clips that go on a large number of products. They must be removed at the counter, by an employee. So even with NFC, you will still have to stand in another line to get that clip removed.

And NFC chips in other products must be scanned to be deactivated, again at the counter by an employee. So this isn't going to be useful until stores decide to not require all of that. And exactly when will that happen? Trusting their customers not to steal, really?

No other company is doing anything better than Apple is doing with their phones, unless you consider these bloated size things to be major advances. Companies all around reach a certain point of maturity with their products, and then it becomes more difficult to move forwards significantly intel there is a technology breakthrough of some kind.

The entire industry is worried about Apple, something you can read in nu sous articles, because they have the advantage of doing the whole thing, from desktops and notebooks, to the OS, the the major software, to iPods, phones, tablets, aTv and content. And tying that all together now, and increasingly, is iCloud.

There's no other company that has all of that, and it's driving sales. We just read that Apple sold over a million tablets into the education market last quarter. That's very significant. Nac sales to business increased 56% where Windows sales dropped 9%.

There are reasons for all this, even if you don't want to see it.

However little you think Apple is innovating theses days, be assured that everyone else is innovating less.
post #185 of 239
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post
Welp, nice to know people weren't lying about you. Someone has a different opinion (remember when you said opinions were good?) and you start trying to start a flame war. :)

 

I fail to see how.


You can't ignore it, Apple have not done anything noteworthy with the iPhone since the initial release of the iPhone 4.

 

I can, because it's a blatant lie. You can't say that with a straight face.


I want to be proven wrong, but its very hard to ignore the glaring evidence presented to us all.

 

The evidence that none of us have, no one knows, and which you're basing on nothing, you mean?

 

Now stop being a hypocrite and let people have their opinions, then we'll let you have yours. :)

 

Can't really have an opinion based on no facts, can you?


Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
Because this "thing" is the most innovative smartphone to come out since the original iPhone. Maybe if you dropped the 2-liter kool aid bottle for a second and read what it's got you could figure that out.

 

Thanks for rendering your argument illegitimate early.


Go to The Verge, Giz, Anand, etc. There are plenty of impressed people over there. And plenty of "Goodbye iPhone/Android!" comments.

 

And those happen at every phone launch, but the follow through is all that matters. Apparently people don't follow through.


Calling it now. The "Amazing new iPhone 5" has a STUNNING 4" display that is just a stretched standard Retina, thus neither as bright, sensible, or fast as the one found in the Lumia, INCREDIBLY FAST processor that barely keeps up with the S3 and the 920, and a 12mp camera that is a minor improvement and doesn't get near the PureView because the sensor is too small and there's no hardware stabilization to allow for longer exposure times. Battery probably will go up from 1400 to 1600 mAh, not meaning much since the 4S has unimpressive battery life (I have one right here). And it'll run the same tired iOS we know and love (or are sick of).

 

All right; we'll see if you're at all right when it comes out. The community has really moved past people typing up their own spec lists and then seeing who was right, haven't we? I sort of miss that.

 

How you got to be a moderator is a mystery, on the other hand.

 

Yada yada, ad homs… 


And how exactly was that FUD?

 

I wouldn't imagine you'd see it as such, as you're used to saying the same sort of thing.


Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
I was going to quote the rest of your post, but that's such a waste of time, isn't it?

 

Well, the original point has no proof thereof, so until there's something more on that side of the argument than "it's stale", I don't have to say diddly.


Originally Posted by melgross View Post
New model, not available for a good two months, compared to an old model about to be discontinued. Not a great comparison.

 

I question the image beyond that, too.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #186 of 239
Nokia faked the still photos too — http://sefsar.com/nokia-faked-the-still-photos-too

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #187 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


If you actually think Apple's going to do anything other than increase MP, I have bad news for you.

So you have an in at Apple, and have been told their plans.
 
Quote:
How? We saw him taking it.

Well, not fake like the others are, but something is hinky. There's no light in that booth they're shooting in, yet the picture the 920 took is overexposed.
post #188 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

That being said, most analysis I managed to find on the web agree that stock drop is because of availability date and prices not being announced yet, not because phones are lacking.
Additionally, I recall that Apple's stock often drops a bit after new products announcement.

No, the phones are thought to be lacking.
post #189 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Nokia faked the still photos too — http://sefsar.com/nokia-faked-the-still-photos-too

This faking images seems to be a consistent thing for Nokia. They've done this before.

Even with the camera from the 900, where they were talking about the Zeiss lens, etc, and how great the camera was, when the photo sites finally tested it, the pictures were softer than the 4S, and the pictures taken in dim light were much worse.

I'm sure this camera is much better. But until sites that do this for a living test it, I won't trust anything from Nokia.
post #190 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

So you have an in at Apple, and have been told their plans.
 
Well, not fake like the others are, but something is hinky. There's no light in that booth they're shooting in, yet the picture the 920 took is overexposed.

It looks compensated, not overexposed; there are no blown highlights, much as I can see.

It is my understanding that photos were made by Anand himself, who is iPhone and MacBook user. One of the most dedicated and trustworthy names in the field, much as my experience is.
post #191 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Nokia faked the still photos too — http://sefsar.com/nokia-faked-the-still-photos-too

GOD DAMMIT





See, here's a thing: In the first picture nothing is claimed except that Optical Image Stabilization was being used, something known to exist in OTHER products, even if with a different execution. The second shot - the one the very article you linked says IT'S FROM THE 920, explicitly states so.

Also, will I have to keep posting this while I wait for someone to comment?

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post #192 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, not fake like the others are, but something is hinky. There's no light in that booth they're shooting in, yet the picture the 920 took is overexposed.


I've noticed you understand a great deal more of photography than me, but... isn't this the whole point of this particular camera? More time to gather more light?

EDIT: I don't mean that overexposure is good, just that it could be a logical side-effect of this camera's method for low-light pictures.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Thanks for rendering your argument illegitimate early.

So if I give you a history book and insert a random "apple fanboy" sentence at a random page, do you claim all the contents are illegitimate?

 

And those happen at every phone launch, but the follow through is all that matters. Apparently people don't follow through.

 

And Apple says "This changes everything" pretty often, but I haven't seen it since the original iPhone.

 

Yada yada, ad homs… 

 

You're the one liberally calling people who don't  agree with your POV trolls and I'm doing ad hominem?

 

Well, the original point has no proof thereof, so until there's something more on that side of the argument than "it's stale", I don't have to say diddly.

 

What about we are expecting a considerable iPhone -> iPhone 4 change and all we get is a taller iPhone 4 mercifully free of a back made of glass (but with ridiculous RF windows)?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


No, the phones are thought to be lacking.

Really? Do tell how.

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post #193 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

It looks compensated, not overexposed; there are no blown highlights, much as I can see.
It is my understanding that photos were made by Anand himself, who is iPhone and MacBook user. One of the most dedicated and trustworthy names in the field, much as my experience is.

Seriously? It's definitely overexposed. I like Anand too, but the picture taken there was in control of Nokia, not him. Anand is a computer expert, not a photo expert. I'd say that I'm a photo expert, but you won't believe me anyway.
post #194 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

GOD DAMMIT








See, here's a thing: In the first picture nothing is claimed except that Optical Image Stabilization was being used, something known to exist in OTHER products, even if with a different execution. The second shot - the one the very article you linked says IT'S FROM THE 920, explicitly states so.


Also, will I have to keep posting this while I wait for someone to comment?


The first picture was taken with pro quality mobile LED lighting (I recognize what it is). The second, apparently, isn't.
post #195 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This faking images seems to be a consistent thing for Nokia. They've done this before.
Even with the camera from the 900, where they were talking about the Zeiss lens, etc, and how great the camera was, when the photo sites finally tested it, the pictures were softer than the 4S, and the pictures taken in dim light were much worse.
I'm sure this camera is much better. But until sites that do this for a living test it, I won't trust anything from Nokia.

Just like Apple has a history of producing misleading ads, so I assume you also have no trust of Apple?
post #196 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


The first picture was taken with pro quality mobile LED lighting (I recognize what it is). The second, apparently, isn't.


If you recognize it as such, and Nokia states which photos are taken with their prototype 920, why the distrust?

I haven't seen anyone commenting on the fake iPad camera shot either.

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post #197 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


Just like Apple has a history of producing misleading ads, so I assume you also have no trust of Apple?


The Siri ones are the most damning. It can't even differentiate between two songs with similar names, let alone allow you to specify the album.

Example: Asking for a "New Born from album HAARP" (a live album) simply returns New Born from the Origin of Symmetry album (the original studio version). No way around it unless you ask for the entire OoS album and keep asking "Next" until I get there, as not only you can't ask for a song number, if you ask for a song before or after and try to ask "Previous" or "Next", you won't get anything as Siri creates a temporary playlist with only the song you asked for.

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post #198 of 239
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Also, will I have to keep posting this while I wait for someone to comment?

Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
I haven't seen anyone commenting on the fake iPad camera shot either.
 

What's your point, that the picture on the iPad wasn't taken with an iPad? Where's your proof?

 

Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
So if I give you a history book and insert a random "apple fanboy" sentence at a random page, do you claim all the contents are illegitimate?
 

If you have truth on your side, you shouldn't be inserting or have to insert swearing, ad-homs, or disparaging remarks at all. The content will speak for itself.


And Apple says "This changes everything" pretty often, but I haven't seen it since the original iPhone.

 

And you think this phone somehow does change anything in the same capacity?


What about we are expecting a considerable iPhone -> iPhone 4 change and all we get is a taller iPhone 4 mercifully free of a back made of glass (but with ridiculous RF windows)?

 

Who are "we", what are "we" "expecting", and what does "considerable" imply? This is as silly and frivolous as the "stale" arguments people don't actually have. They don't actually have them because they use the most generic words imaginable to pretend there is something inherently wrong with an existing system, and they think they can get away without expounding on what they're saying. 

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Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #199 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


The Siri ones are the most damning. It can't even differentiate between two songs with similar names, let alone allow you to specify the album.


Example: Asking for a "New Born from album HAARP" (a live album) simply returns New Born from the Origin of Symmetry album (the original studio version). No way around it unless you ask for the entire OoS album and keep asking "Next" until I get there, as not only you can't ask for a song number, if you ask for a song before or after and try to ask "Previous" or "Next", you won't get anything as Siri creates a temporary playlist with only the song you asked for.

I don't care for the Siri ads. Not so much because they speed up the result but because they seem to ask things that Siri can't seem to reasonably understand at this point. Saying gazpacho or using in NYC? I'd much rather they do their due diligence to be clever with the writing, but only if it has been verified to be repeatable with others in the same settings.

That said, it's hard to see that Apple's speeding up the timeframe in an ad is the same as Nokia showing off OIS as a random feature and not eluding to it being from that camera. Apple does show a disclaimer on their ads but I see no such disclaimer on the Nokia image saying it's not from the 920 or even one of their cameras. Suggesting that on another image they do state it's from the 920 so the viewer should expect to hunt for all photos about the 920 to look for one that states it specifically is hogwash.

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post #200 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That said, it's hard to see that Apple's speeding up the timeframe in an ad is the same as Nokia showing off OIS as a random feature and not eluding to it being from that camera. Apple does show a disclaimer on their ads but I see no such disclaimer on the Nokia image saying it's not from the 920 or even one of their cameras. Suggesting that on another image they do state it's from the 920 so the viewer should expect to hunt for all photos about the 920 to look for one that states it specifically is hogwash.


Who's talking about timeframe? You are. You are the one admitting that Siri doesn't have shown functionally but proceeeds to compare Nokia's OIS picture with accelerated sequences instead. You are the one avoiding that Siri's ad is more at fault ignoring that which doesn't please you.
 

And really. Hunting for all photos? You're just making stuff up now.

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