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Nokia unveils Lumia 920 with 4.5" display, PureView camera - Page 6

post #201 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


Who's talking about timeframe? You are. You are the one admitting that Siri doesn't have shown functionally but proceeeds to compare Nokia's OIS picture with accelerated sequences instead. You are the one avoiding that Siri's ad is more at fault ignoring that which doesn't please you.

 
And really. Hunting for all photos? You're just making stuff up now.

1) I was using actual ads as evidence of things I find shady. You are using some silly example that was never presented in an ad.

2) Nokia is clearly suggesting that the images are from the 920's camera. You stated that because some other photo somewhere else states it's from the 920 that all other photos suggesting it's the from same camera should be ignored that all viewers should look for null value and infer from there. Funny how you think that's a perfectly reasonable assumption to make about that photo. That's like me creating a site about my photography and then throwing in other people's images in there but then claiming that I never said I painted it on the photo means that I'm trying to be deceptive.

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post #202 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

What's your point, that the picture on the iPad wasn't taken with an iPad? Where's your proof?

 

Too sharp for a camera of that caliber, zero noise.

 

If you have truth on your side, you shouldn't be inserting or have to insert swearing, ad-homs, or disparaging remarks at all. The content will speak for itself.

 

You're such a saint.

 

And you think this phone somehow does change anything in the same capacity?

When did I say it changes anything? Let alone on the same level the orginial iPhone did? Blatant straw man from the guy condemning ad hominem one sentence above.

I will say this is more innovative than every iPhone other than the original.

 

Who are "we", what are "we" "expecting", and what does "considerable" imply? This is as silly and frivolous as the "stale" arguments people don't actually have. They don't actually have them because they use the most generic words imaginable to pretend there is something inherently wrong with an existing system, and they think they can get away without expounding on what they're saying. 

 

Want me to write paragraphs as to why the new design "sucks"? So you can dismiss it as nitpicking or opinion two posts later?

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post #203 of 239
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
 

 

So no solid proof—no specifics like have been provided about the Nokia, is what you're saying.


When did I say it changes anything? Let alone on the same level the orginial iPhone did?

 

On the contrary, I asked if you thought it changed anything. If you don't, why do you expect the iPhone to at every release? Why don't you of other phones? 


Want me to write paragraphs as to why the new design "sucks"? So you can dismiss it as nitpicking or opinion two posts later?

 

I'd love some paragraphs that I can ask questions about and rebut, that's for sure. 

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #204 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) I was using actual ads as evidence of things I find shady. You are using some silly example that was never presented in an ad.

 

What? I was using that example (which I would like to know why you consider silly - other than discrediting for the sake of it) to say Siri sucks, period. What you ignored (one sentence after acknowledging it) are the other actions Siri can't perform but nevertheless were used on ads...

Quote:
2) Nokia is clearly suggesting that the images are from the 920's camera. 

 

... which brings me to this. Apple did it too, and did it worse. They didn't post pictures that were clearly marked as being shot by said product when applicable, they made a frickin' TV ad that explicitly showed the iPhone 4S performing actions it can't. THIS IS FAKING.

 

 

 

Quote:
You stated that because some other photo somewhere else states it's from the 920 that all other photos suggesting it's the from same camera should be ignored that all viewers should look for null value and infer from there. Funny how you think that's a perfectly reasonable assumption to make about that photo. 

 


Have you even gone to the Lumia 920 official webpage? ALL pictures taken with the 920 are grouped together and properly marked, and I can't find the aggravating picture on either the Lumia's page of PureView's. That image isn't even being used in the same context as the others. You're making stuff up.



 

Quote:
That's like me creating a site about my photography and then throwing in other people's images in there but then claiming that I never said I painted it on the photo means that I'm trying to be deceptive.

 

It's an uncaptioned picture illustrating the benefits of stabilization completely separated from a different picture shot by the device at hand and marked as such. How is that supposed to be a valid comparison is a question you should be posing to yourself...

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post #205 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So no solid proof—no specifics like have been provided about the Nokia, is what you're saying.

 

I'm sorry if there wasn't a street light post inside her home.

 

On the contrary, I asked if you thought it changed anything. If you don't, why do you expect the iPhone to at every release? Why don't you of other phones? 

 

Your continous twisting of words won't make you any good. You said "in the same capacity", and I was talking about the original iPhone - a different beast altogether.

 

I'd love some paragraphs that I can ask questions about and rebut, that's for sure.

 

You won't get anything from me if you keep squirming and reinterpreting what you said one post ago.

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post #206 of 239

Still waiting for melgross to explain me how on Earth are the Lumias lacking in anything except a release date.

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post #207 of 239

Actually, those pictures weren't in any Nokia site at all: They appeared in a video about PureView as a tech, in a section talking about the benefits of OIS. Unrelated to all the other pics. Your claims are starting to look more and more ridiculous.

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post #208 of 239
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
Your continous twisting of words won't make you any good. You said "in the same capacity", and I was talking about the original iPhone - a different beast altogether.

 

So then you do or do not expect a revolution on the order of the first iPhone with every iPhone release? And do or do not ever expect a similar change with a phone from another manufacturer?

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #209 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So then you do or do not expect a revolution on the order of the first iPhone with every iPhone release? And do or do not ever expect a similar change with a phone from another manufacturer?


Sigh.

No, I don't expect it to be a revolution. Of course not. I just said I didn't.

Apple, however, kept blowing their horn every year as if it were. When in fact their only significant phone since the original was the iPhone 4. And I'm ready to say the Lumia 920 is more impressive than it.

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post #210 of 239
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post
Apple, however, kept blowing their horn every year as if it were.

 

And this is different from other manufacturers and other phones in what way?


When in fact their only significant phone since the original was the iPhone 4.

 

And that's subjective as all get out. 

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post #211 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Seriously? It's definitely overexposed. I like Anand too, but the picture taken there was in control of Nokia, not him. Anand is a computer expert, not a photo expert. I'd say that I'm a photo expert, but you won't believe me anyway.

I don't have problem believing you are good at photography. I don't know how good I am, but was playing with my dad's rangefinders since I was 7, got my first SLR (second hand Nikon F801s) in '91, my first DSLR in 2005... so I did gather some knowledge along the way.

I don't see washed out bright details on that photo, which, by definition, is result of overexposing. I don't mind or care how you choose to call that, but in my eyes it remains that Nokia's gathered much more light and gave significantly more pleasing photo than iPhone, whose image was heavily underexposed.

Anand, much as I was following Anandtech, appears to be camera enthusiast as well, so completely clueless he isn't. Could he be tricked without noticing? Maybe, but not that likely. End of the day, Lumia 920 does have some cool tech in that camera, as described here:

http://blog.gsmarena.com/the-amazing-science-behind-the-nokia-lumia-920-camera-the-second-phase-of-pureview/

So defending current iPhone 4s camera, in my mind, doesn't make much sense. It is great phone camera, likely the best in its time, but this good it isn't. The only question for me is, what will Apple do for new iPhone's camera. Technology like back lit sensors and image stabilisers is not invented by Nokia, Apple can implement all that and more. I hope they did for 5. I want imaging technology to progress as quick as possible.
post #212 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And this is different from other manufacturers and other phones in what way?

And that's subjective as all get out. 

First people complain that Apple only releases a new phone once a year. Now we get people (probably the same people) complaining that Apple lets you know they have updated their product. WTF?!

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #213 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
So defending current iPhone 4s camera, in my mind, doesn't make much sense. It is great phone camera, likely the best in its time, but this good it isn't. The only question for me is, what will Apple do for new iPhone's camera. Technology like back lit sensors and image stabilisers is not invented by Nokia, Apple can implement all that and more. I hope they did for 5. I want imaging technology to progress as quick as possible.


If by backlit sensors you mean backside illuminated, the iPhone 4S already has that. Image stabilization is a no, because there simply isn't simply space.

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post #214 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


New model, not available for a good two months, compared to an old model about to be discontinued. Not a great comparison.

 

Mel, with all due respect, I believe the comparison is great in the context of the comment I was addressing which declared that the camera would be no better than any other currently available 8Mp phone module.

post #215 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

I got a Lumia 900 to replace my iPhone 4 because, and we all know this is true, Apple is getting complacent with the iPhone.

They aren't creating new and exciting technology anymore, they're just reacting to the competition:

  • Apple said 7" screens were bad - the market for 7" screens explodes - Apple makes a 7" screen
  • Market for large form factor phones explodes - Apple rush to make a larger screen
  • NFC is becoming the big thing - Apple will include it sooner or later and call it magical

 

And so on and so forth. They used to set the bar but now they're just trying to play catch up with a little bit of "me too!" thrown in there as well.

You started a sentence but haven't finished yet. Why did you get a Lumia 900 to replace the iPhone4? I can't find the answer in your post.
You're speaking about what Apple does wrong, but you didn't explain why you chose the Lumia, why not any other smartphone that has NFC. (if it were your answer to my first question)

post #216 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


If by backlit sensors you mean backside illuminated, the iPhone 4S already has that. Image stabilization is a no, because there simply isn't simply space.

Yes, that's what I meant.

No, I didn't know that... but it makes sense, considering that IP 4s image quality was out of this space when released, especially considering sensor and lens size.

Still. Even if there was no progress in back-illuminated sensors in the last year, I have no problem accepting that wider aperture combined with longer exposure made possible by stabilisation, will provide better low light photography. And then, there might be additional benefit of better image processing algorithms and better lens quality - if Nokia and Zeiss managed to improve on those.

Out of curiosity - who is making iP4s lens, anyway? Can't recall I've spotted that detail.
post #217 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Just like Apple has a history of producing misleading ads, so I assume you also have no trust of Apple?

It's nice to know you're back and making absurd statements again.

Show where Apple faked something such as this. You can't, because they haven't.

All advertising contains statements that are intended to make their product seem better. But that doesn't include blatantly faking major aspects of your product, which Nokia has been caught doing before.
post #218 of 239
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
Show where Apple faked something such as this. You can't, because they haven't.

 

I think he may be referring to either Siri/3G data ("sequences shortened") or is claiming iPhone 4/iPad video/pictures in their respective media were not taken with the devices themselves. I don't bet he has any proof of it, but that's what I can think of in this regard, at least. What else… oh, wasn't the iPhone punished in Britain for some false something or other?

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post #219 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


I've noticed you understand a great deal more of photography than me, but... isn't this the whole point of this particular camera? More time to gather more light?

I'm not sure what that means—more time. If an iPhone, as an example, would take a photo that's several stops underexposed, as the video showed, then how could this take one that was overexposed? Going from f:2.4 to f:2 isn't going to do it. That's less than one stop. But there looked to me to be a good four stops difference between the photo's, maybe more, hard to tell from the video.
Quote:
EDIT: I don't mean that overexposure is good, just that it could be a logical side-effect of this camera's method for low-light pictures.

That's always possible. I assume they are doing a lot of processing to get an image, and possibly that destroys the proper contrast. I saw that effect with pictures of a woman leaning against a tree that they showed. So if that's part of their technology, it will make a usable, but bad photo under very low light. But if that photo's blown up, it will look terrible.

A problem here is that there's absolutely no point in delivering a high Rez image if it only looks acceptable on the phone screen. And with all that contrast, and all the highlights blown out, it doesn't look good to me. I would have preferred they used something better than what they were shooting. But maybe that's why they chose that rather than to have something with more detail and a full range of colors, such as a bowl of fruit and a background of something detailed. If that got blown out, people would have thought it looked like garbage.
 
Quote:
Really? Do tell how.

I'm not saying it is, or it isn't. But a number of articles about in the financial press were saying that investors (who mostly held Nokia stock) were bailing because they didn't think the phones offered more than the competition. That's in addition to the lack of substantial information as to when they were available (one assumption is Nov. 2, my birthday!). How much they would cost, and which carriers had signed on. They also didn't like the fact that as with Microsoft's Surface, they weren't allowed to do anything with the phones, indicating that they were far from ready. There was a concern that the time scale wouldn't give developers enough time to get their apps out. And any wp7 apps that use 3D in any way need that portion to be completely rewritten, such as games. They also told people they couldn't use the phones because they weren't yet FCC approved. That seems to be nuts. So late in the game for that. So the assumption is that the OS isn't yet ready, with Microsoft claiming to have the RDK only out by Oct. 26.

The problem Microsoft and it's ODM's have is that breaking into the smartphone market now, with Android and iOS having a very large, and growing stranglehold on the market is that unless competing products can offer substantially MORE, there isn't a reason for others to go to them. Wp7 wasn't great, just passable. Wp8 MIGHT be great, but we have to get the phones to know. If its just as good, it won't do very well. That's just the way it works.

With the latest JD Power ratings, the iPhone again, for the 8th year, ended on top of the ratings, well ahead. Nokia was well down. They have to make that up. Can they do it with these phones! That's a real question.

I think there's a very real possibility that people just don't like Win Phone. If that's true, then nothing they do will help much.
post #220 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


If you recognize it as such, and Nokia states which photos are taken with their prototype 920, why the distrust?


I haven't seen anyone commenting on the fake iPad camera shot either.

It turns out that those pics were most likely taken with a pro camera as well as pro lighting. This wasn't something Nokia wanted people to know, someone just happened to get some shots of the shoot itself, as was shown on that guys blog. So the pics weren't taken with the 920 at all.

And which fake iPad camera shot are you talking about? Can you show it to us, along with any commentary saying that Apple took a fake shot and proclaimed it was shot with the iPad camera?
post #221 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post

Why would you have someone who has a strong foreign accent advertise in ENGISH to english speaking audience.

 

There are thousands of out of work native english speaking actors and techheads that are pretty enough that could handle this promotional video.

 

I dont understand why companies do this, have a representative detail the product in there native language.

 

OK now everyone scream at me how I am a racist now....

The thinking is: If you can understand this guy's version of English, you won't complain when you get a similar version when you call customer service.

 

It didn't really matter if you could understand him, he was spewing specifications only. Nothing about what you can do with the device to make your life better, a la Apple.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #222 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


Who's talking about timeframe? You are. You are the one admitting that Siri doesn't have shown functionally but proceeeds to compare Nokia's OIS picture with accelerated sequences instead. You are the one avoiding that Siri's ad is more at fault ignoring that which doesn't please you.

 
And really. Hunting for all photos? You're just making stuff up now.

Well, you would be right about one thing. Siri can be awfully good at times, and awfully bad at others. I find that most of the time I get what I'm expecting out of it. But there are times where it fails. But there's that silly Android ad where a woman is having a party, and talks to her Android phone as though it's a real person, and supposedly, it responds to everything she's saying. That far worse than any Siri ad I've seen. That was a pretty well distributed ad, so if you watch any tv at all, as you must, if you saw Apple's, you should have seen that one too.

At least with Apple's ads, they don't pretend you can walk around the kitchen and talk to it like a person, while it's on the counter.
post #223 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


If by backlit sensors you mean backside illuminated, the iPhone 4S already has that. Image stabilization is a no, because there simply isn't simply space.

 

My thinking is that Apple has built stabilization and other tools into the iPhoto app, not in the iPhone camera. 

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post #224 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Out of curiosity - who is making iP4s lens, anyway? Can't recall I've spotted that detail.

 

I think the iPhone 4S lens and sensor was made by Sony.

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post #225 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Still waiting for melgross to explain me how on Earth are the Lumias lacking in anything except a release date.

Don't be a wiseass!

I don't hang around this site just so I can respond to you as soon as you post. Some of us have other things to do, even if you do not. I did respond before this post. Next time, just wait!
post #226 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Actually, those pictures weren't in any Nokia site at all: They appeared in a video about PureView as a tech, in a section talking about the benefits of OIS. Unrelated to all the other pics. Your claims are starting to look more and more ridiculous.

It was done by Nokia, for Nokia, and presented by Nokia as pictures taken by the 920 with available lighting. None of it was real.
post #227 of 239
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post
I think the iPhone 4S lens and sensor was made by Sony.

 

I wish MacTracker actually told us this stuff, you know? Not just specs, because we can find those anywhere, but what was used where. Yes, such and such Mac had a such and such capacity hard drive; I want to know what brands they used at the time. Yes, such and such iPhone had a such and such megapixel camera; who made the lens? The sensor?

 

Since Mountain Lion, MacTracker seems to be good for nothing more than crashing instantaneously every time it opens and having broken scrolling in the categories bar. 

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #228 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's nice to know you're back and making absurd statements again.
Show where Apple faked something such as this. You can't, because they haven't.
All advertising contains statements that are intended to make their product seem better. But that doesn't include blatantly faking major aspects of your product, which Nokia has been caught doing before.

I haven't gone anywhere, unlike you guys, I don't like the sound of my own voice.

Now, this was the answer I was expecting from you, maybe you should take your blinkers off

Show where Apple faked something such as this, hmm, that's not what you said about Nokia, and it wasn't what I replied with, but hey, don't let that stop you as I know this is Appleinsider where we change the rules when we are found out.

An example of Apple telling porkies in an ad and getting in trouble for it, wasn't the first time, and wasn't the last.

http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2008/8/Apple-(UK)-Ltd/TF_ADJ_44891.aspx

And remember, a disclaimer too small to see is not an excuse, and more importantly, not legal in a number of countries.
post #229 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


If by backlit sensors you mean backside illuminated, the iPhone 4S already has that. Image stabilization is a no, because there simply isn't simply space.

 

My thinking is that Apple has built stabilization and other tools into the iPhoto app, not in the iPhone camera. 

 

I can't think of any processing method that would be able to retrospectively stabilize an image, since that would require temporally resolved data for each sensor element (as opposed to the normal integrated values) over the duration of the exposure, which would add another dimension and result in an enormous raw file size.

post #230 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post


I've noticed you understand a great deal more of photography than me, but... isn't this the whole point of this particular camera? More time to gather more light?

I'm not sure what that means—more time. If an iPhone, as an example, would take a photo that's several stops underexposed, as the video showed, then how could this take one that was overexposed? Going from f:2.4 to f:2 isn't going to do it. That's less than one stop. But there looked to me to be a good four stops difference between the photo's, maybe more, hard to tell from the video.

 

I may be missing something here, but presumably the way that the Nokia image could be overexposed relative to the iPhone image for a similar speed lens would simply be a longer exposure time. 16 x longer for a 4 stop difference assuming a linear sensor response. Isn't that what the stabilization discussion is all about?

post #231 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I don't have problem believing you are good at photography. I don't know how good I am, but was playing with my dad's rangefinders since I was 7, got my first SLR (second hand Nikon F801s) in '91, my first DSLR in 2005... so I did gather some knowledge along the way.
I don't see washed out bright details on that photo, which, by definition, is result of overexposing. I don't mind or care how you choose to call that, but in my eyes it remains that Nokia's gathered much more light and gave significantly more pleasing photo than iPhone, whose image was heavily underexposed.
Anand, much as I was following Anandtech, appears to be camera enthusiast as well, so completely clueless he isn't. Could he be tricked without noticing? Maybe, but not that likely. End of the day, Lumia 920 does have some cool tech in that camera, as described here:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/the-amazing-science-behind-the-nokia-lumia-920-camera-the-second-phase-of-pureview/
So defending current iPhone 4s camera, in my mind, doesn't make much sense. It is great phone camera, likely the best in its time, but this good it isn't. The only question for me is, what will Apple do for new iPhone's camera. Technology like back lit sensors and image stabilisers is not invented by Nokia, Apple can implement all that and more. I hope they did for 5. I want imaging technology to progress as quick as possible.

My last photo gig was running a medium size commercial photo lab in NYC for over two decades. I can recognize over exposure. In addition, as I said before, there was a lot of processing done there. Too much.

No where am I "defending" the 4S camera. Why would you think that? If you compare something new, that hasn't even come out yet, to something that, in this world of fast moving technology, is considered to already be old, as a new one will be out in just a couple of weeks, then it's not a great comparison. There's no doubt that we had a spate of announcements this week because Apple will be doing their own next week.

After all, these phones aren't near being ready! They could have waited until the new iPhone was out, and then done their comparison.
post #232 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Mel, with all due respect, I believe the comparison is great in the context of the comment I was addressing which declared that the camera would be no better than any other currently available 8Mp phone module.

I understand that. But still, that currently available product will be replaced in two weeks. So the comparison isn't good. May as well do another comparison of the highly touted, when it was announced, and shown off by Nokia, 900, which is a currently available phone from Nokia, unlike the 920, which isn't.

I remember Nokia stating how great that was, but when it was actually tested, it turned out being just so so. I expect the 920 camera to be much better. But until we get independent tests, we won't really know by how much.
post #233 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I think the iPhone 4S lens and sensor was made by Sony.

The sensor is designed, and made, by Sony. The lens is designed by Apple. I don't know who makes it.
post #234 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I haven't gone anywhere, unlike you guys, I don't like the sound of my own voice.
Now, this was the answer I was expecting from you, maybe you should take your blinkers off
Show where Apple faked something such as this, hmm, that's not what you said about Nokia, and it wasn't what I replied with, but hey, don't let that stop you as I know this is Appleinsider where we change the rules when we are found out.
An example of Apple telling porkies in an ad and getting in trouble for it, wasn't the first time, and wasn't the last.
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2008/8/Apple-(UK)-Ltd/TF_ADJ_44891.aspx
And remember, a disclaimer too small to see is not an excuse, and more importantly, not legal in a number of countries.

What do you mean, it's not what I said about Nokia? We all know they faked a number of things here, and quite blatantly.

I've never said that Apple was perfect though. I don't change the rules. It is what it is.

In the EU, their advertising standards don't allow what is allowed most everywhere else. You can't make comparisons between products, you can't say that you're is better. Really, it's just more Big Brother, thinking that people are too stupid to know when companies are slanting things to make their own seem better. But that's not a blatant lie, or out and out fraud. This is fraud.

Butits interesting that as we all know, Flash on phones never worked correctly anyway, and now Adobe is discontinuing it for every other phone. Java is rarely ever used anymore on web sites, as for that purpose JavaScript, which iOS does support is used.

In fact, Apple was right, and that ruling was wrong. It's been shown by current events.
post #235 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I may be missing something here, but presumably the way that the Nokia image could be overexposed relative to the iPhone image for a similar speed lens would simply be a longer exposure time. 16 x longer for a 4 stop difference assuming a linear sensor response. Isn't that what the stabilization discussion is all about?

Yes, that much exposure could do it. But look at the video. Did it look as though the exposure took 16 times as long? It just looks hinky. I might not be wondering if they hadn't done so much blatant fakery elsewhere for the camera.
post #236 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What do you mean, it's not what I said about Nokia? We all know they faked a number of things here, and quite blatantly.
I've never said that Apple was perfect though. I don't change the rules. It is what it is.
In the EU, their advertising standards don't allow what is allowed most everywhere else. You can't make comparisons between products, you can't say that you're is better. Really, it's just more Big Brother, thinking that people are too stupid to know when companies are slanting things to make their own seem better. But that's not a blatant lie, or out and out fraud. This is fraud.
Butits interesting that as we all know, Flash on phones never worked correctly anyway, and now Adobe is discontinuing it for every other phone. Java is rarely ever used anymore on web sites, as for that purpose JavaScript, which iOS does support is used.
In fact, Apple was right, and that ruling was wrong. It's been shown by current events.

Actually a lot more countries that just those in the EU have laws like that, the laws are there for a reason, to protect consumers. Or are you ok with companies advertising their phones performing action significantly faster than can actually happen?

Apple has been found to have broken the law before, they misrepresented a situation, exactly like Nokia has done. Yet according to you, Nokia is evil, Apple is wonderful.
post #237 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

My last photo gig was running a medium size commercial photo lab in NYC for over two decades. I can recognize over exposure. In addition, as I said before, there was a lot of processing done there. Too much.
No where am I "defending" the 4S camera. Why would you think that? If you compare something new, that hasn't even come out yet, to something that, in this world of fast moving technology, is considered to already be old, as a new one will be out in just a couple of weeks, then it's not a great comparison. There's no doubt that we had a spate of announcements this week because Apple will be doing their own next week.
After all, these phones aren't near being ready! They could have waited until the new iPhone was out, and then done their comparison.

Cool. Like I said, I have no problem believing you regarding your experience. But thanks for taking time to explain.

So how do you define overexposure? Because I had another look at the photo, and to me exposure looks pretty much spot on.

post #238 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post

Digital image stabilization. There's a big difference between digital (iPhone) and optical (Lumia) image stabilization.

To be pedantic, it's not optical, it's mechanical. It has nothing to do with the optical properties of the lens, but the system used to stabilize them.

post #239 of 239

melgross, I wasn't rushing you on responding to my post: I simply noticed that between my question and my "reminder", you had quoted and responded to other posts. I didn't want you to forget that.

Now, I've just started reading it, but I can already comment on one thing: if there's anything we learned in the past 5 years watching Apple, is that no one should give a sh!t about what the investors think. Most have minimal knowledge of what's ACTUALLY going on the company, anyway.

While your interpretation would indicate scenarios such as "OMG only 32GB? It should have 128! SELL SELL!", the reality is closer to "No release date? Then how will you get money! Then how will *I* get money? I want my money!"

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

Reply

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

Reply
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