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Nokia unveils Lumia 920 with 4.5" display, PureView camera - Page 7

post #241 of 249
9/7/12 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I don't have problem believing you are good at photography. I don't know how good I am, but was playing with my dad's rangefinders since I was 7, got my first SLR (second hand Nikon F801s) in '91, my first DSLR in 2005... so I did gather some knowledge along the way.
I don't see washed out bright details on that photo, which, by definition, is result of overexposing. I don't mind or care how you choose to call that, but in my eyes it remains that Nokia's gathered much more light and gave significantly more pleasing photo than iPhone, whose image was heavily underexposed.
Anand, much as I was following Anandtech, appears to be camera enthusiast as well, so completely clueless he isn't. Could he be tricked without noticing? Maybe, but not that likely. End of the day, Lumia 920 does have some cool tech in that camera, as described here:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/the-amazing-science-behind-the-nokia-lumia-920-camera-the-second-phase-of-pureview/
So defending current iPhone 4s camera, in my mind, doesn't make much sense. It is great phone camera, likely the best in its time, but this good it isn't. The only question for me is, what will Apple do for new iPhone's camera. Technology like back lit sensors and image stabilisers is not invented by Nokia, Apple can implement all that and more. I hope they did for 5. I want imaging technology to progress as quick as possible.

My last photo gig was running a medium size commercial photo lab in NYC for over two decades. I can recognize over exposure. In addition, as I said before, there was a lot of processing done there. Too much.

No where am I "defending" the 4S camera. Why would you think that? If you compare something new, that hasn't even come out yet, to something that, in this world of fast moving technology, is considered to already be old, as a new one will be out in just a couple of weeks, then it's not a great comparison. There's no doubt that we had a spate of announcements this week because Apple will be doing their own next week.

After all, these phones aren't near being ready! They could have waited until the new iPhone was out, and then done their comparison.
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post #242 of 249
9/7/12 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Mel, with all due respect, I believe the comparison is great in the context of the comment I was addressing which declared that the camera would be no better than any other currently available 8Mp phone module.

I understand that. But still, that currently available product will be replaced in two weeks. So the comparison isn't good. May as well do another comparison of the highly touted, when it was announced, and shown off by Nokia, 900, which is a currently available phone from Nokia, unlike the 920, which isn't.

I remember Nokia stating how great that was, but when it was actually tested, it turned out being just so so. I expect the 920 camera to be much better. But until we get independent tests, we won't really know by how much.
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post #243 of 249
9/7/12 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I think the iPhone 4S lens and sensor was made by Sony.

The sensor is designed, and made, by Sony. The lens is designed by Apple. I don't know who makes it.
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post #244 of 249
9/7/12 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I haven't gone anywhere, unlike you guys, I don't like the sound of my own voice.
Now, this was the answer I was expecting from you, maybe you should take your blinkers off
Show where Apple faked something such as this, hmm, that's not what you said about Nokia, and it wasn't what I replied with, but hey, don't let that stop you as I know this is Appleinsider where we change the rules when we are found out.
An example of Apple telling porkies in an ad and getting in trouble for it, wasn't the first time, and wasn't the last.
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2008/8/Apple-(UK)-Ltd/TF_ADJ_44891.aspx
And remember, a disclaimer too small to see is not an excuse, and more importantly, not legal in a number of countries.

What do you mean, it's not what I said about Nokia? We all know they faked a number of things here, and quite blatantly.

I've never said that Apple was perfect though. I don't change the rules. It is what it is.

In the EU, their advertising standards don't allow what is allowed most everywhere else. You can't make comparisons between products, you can't say that you're is better. Really, it's just more Big Brother, thinking that people are too stupid to know when companies are slanting things to make their own seem better. But that's not a blatant lie, or out and out fraud. This is fraud.

Butits interesting that as we all know, Flash on phones never worked correctly anyway, and now Adobe is discontinuing it for every other phone. Java is rarely ever used anymore on web sites, as for that purpose JavaScript, which iOS does support is used.

In fact, Apple was right, and that ruling was wrong. It's been shown by current events.
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post #245 of 249
9/7/12 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I may be missing something here, but presumably the way that the Nokia image could be overexposed relative to the iPhone image for a similar speed lens would simply be a longer exposure time. 16 x longer for a 4 stop difference assuming a linear sensor response. Isn't that what the stabilization discussion is all about?

Yes, that much exposure could do it. But look at the video. Did it look as though the exposure took 16 times as long? It just looks hinky. I might not be wondering if they hadn't done so much blatant fakery elsewhere for the camera.
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post #246 of 249
9/7/12 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What do you mean, it's not what I said about Nokia? We all know they faked a number of things here, and quite blatantly.
I've never said that Apple was perfect though. I don't change the rules. It is what it is.
In the EU, their advertising standards don't allow what is allowed most everywhere else. You can't make comparisons between products, you can't say that you're is better. Really, it's just more Big Brother, thinking that people are too stupid to know when companies are slanting things to make their own seem better. But that's not a blatant lie, or out and out fraud. This is fraud.
Butits interesting that as we all know, Flash on phones never worked correctly anyway, and now Adobe is discontinuing it for every other phone. Java is rarely ever used anymore on web sites, as for that purpose JavaScript, which iOS does support is used.
In fact, Apple was right, and that ruling was wrong. It's been shown by current events.

Actually a lot more countries that just those in the EU have laws like that, the laws are there for a reason, to protect consumers. Or are you ok with companies advertising their phones performing action significantly faster than can actually happen?

Apple has been found to have broken the law before, they misrepresented a situation, exactly like Nokia has done. Yet according to you, Nokia is evil, Apple is wonderful.
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post #247 of 249
9/8/12 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

My last photo gig was running a medium size commercial photo lab in NYC for over two decades. I can recognize over exposure. In addition, as I said before, there was a lot of processing done there. Too much.
No where am I "defending" the 4S camera. Why would you think that? If you compare something new, that hasn't even come out yet, to something that, in this world of fast moving technology, is considered to already be old, as a new one will be out in just a couple of weeks, then it's not a great comparison. There's no doubt that we had a spate of announcements this week because Apple will be doing their own next week.
After all, these phones aren't near being ready! They could have waited until the new iPhone was out, and then done their comparison.

Cool. Like I said, I have no problem believing you regarding your experience. But thanks for taking time to explain.

So how do you define overexposure? Because I had another look at the photo, and to me exposure looks pretty much spot on.

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post #248 of 249
9/8/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post

Digital image stabilization. There's a big difference between digital (iPhone) and optical (Lumia) image stabilization.

To be pedantic, it's not optical, it's mechanical. It has nothing to do with the optical properties of the lens, but the system used to stabilize them.

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post #249 of 249
9/8/12 at 1:01pm

melgross, I wasn't rushing you on responding to my post: I simply noticed that between my question and my "reminder", you had quoted and responded to other posts. I didn't want you to forget that.

Now, I've just started reading it, but I can already comment on one thing: if there's anything we learned in the past 5 years watching Apple, is that no one should give a sh!t about what the investors think. Most have minimal knowledge of what's ACTUALLY going on the company, anyway.

While your interpretation would indicate scenarios such as "OMG only 32GB? It should have 128! SELL SELL!", the reality is closer to "No release date? Then how will you get money! Then how will *I* get money? I want my money!"

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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