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Amazon debuts $299 8.9" Kindle Fire HD, $119 e-ink Kindle Paperwhite - Page 3

post #81 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

 

Bull.

 

This thing is compelling.  If you don't think so, you've sold your soul to Apple.  Amazon is clearly trying to address some things Apple refuses to address, such as glare, parental controls, and expensive data plans.  You may HATE Amazon, but THIS is what competition is: offering things your competitor does not.  

 

An iPad knock off it isn't.  If anyone should be upset about the UI its Microsoft.  The Kindle UI looks an awful lot like what I see on my Xbox....

 

 

EDIT:

 

By the way, I am not implying you should ditch your iPad and buy the thing.  Just that it is an appealing device worth taking a look at.  It has merits beyond the "Amazon content".

 

I think you may have been suckered by Bezos' lies (or "reality distortion field" if you want to be kinder about it).  

 

People seem to forget that Bezos is a well known shyster, that Amazon doesn't release sales figures, that the first Fire was a resounding dud with everyone that bought one, that it had horrible build quality, and horrible software etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. 

 

Why would anyone watch this dog and pony show and just take this crap at face value?  This guy, and this company have shown many times before how deceitful and how "anti-customer" they are.  Bezos plays fast and loose with the rules and always has done.  Based on past performance, nothing he says and nothing the company puts out as PR should really be believed. 

 

Let's wait until there are some actual devices in the hand and reviews of said devices.  

Not that anyone really cares.  The kindle Fire 1.0 was a POS according to every reviewer and most owners and didn't even sell very well, but if you read the tech news you will find most reviewers just regurgitating Amazons constant insistences that the exact opposite is true.  

 

In an age where few true journalists exist anymore and none are willing to actually investigate the claims made by a-holes like this it's pretty much what we have to expect (the public perception being 100% opposite to the reality).

post #82 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

 

As a parent, if the Kindle Fire has decent, or even usable, parental controls it could win me on that alone.  Not for me mind you, but for my kids.

 

 

Right now what Apple offers fits somewhere between unusable and non-existent.

 

Go to Settings -> Restrictions, tap Enable Restrictions, enter a code that only controls restriction settings and add your parental controls.

post #83 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Holy **** balls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might be trading in my iPad 3 for a Kindle Fire HD 8.9" (32GB) with LTE

 

So which carrier is subsidizing the LTE pricing? Bezos is selling a WiFi device competing with Apple's $599 WiFi device, with an inferior product but is pushing a heavily subsidized LTE addition without listing the carriers.

 

LTE is DOA without Carriers and their Data Plans. So either Amazon is trading Cloud Support Contracts and Data Center support for LTE subsidies or we will see the Carriers dropping their $130 with Apple sooner rather than later.

post #84 of 108
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
So which carrier is subsidizing the LTE pricing?

 

AT&T. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #85 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

edit: It appears I misinterpreted his comment incorrectly and you correctly.

No, you were correct as well in that one should question why is the price too low. It was just that by the time you posted I had both questioned and then arrived at a conclusion based on that question. I'll stick with Apple. They don't play games with the price. On face value the prices they charge seem fair to me. I do buy a lot of stuff from Amazon though but mostly through partner dealers. Things like home goods and computer parts. I have never purchased any media from them aside from actual printed books.


Edited by mstone - 9/6/12 at 4:41pm

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #86 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Those other products make sense being sold at a loss because one is basically forced to buy other things. A game console is practically worthless without the games that need to be purchased and a printer needs ink, but one can buy a Kindle Fire and use it without ever buying another thing from Amazon. It's really a risky move.

I always assume that with a cheap gizmo there will be data mining galore.   Actually, these days I assume with an expensive one there with be data mining galore.

post #87 of 108

There must surely be a love affair between the stock market and Amazon, given Amazon's current P/E of 299 (Apple is at 15.71) and annual earnings of less than $1 per share (approximately 1/50 that of Apple). How long can this go on?

 

Some time ago there was a discussion on AI regarding the fallacy of the Amazon makes its money on volume sales argument in relation to sales of hardware at a loss. This argument, regurgitated in summary, would be interesting.

 

All the best.

Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #88 of 108

WOW! first the Nexus 7 comes out at 199$ with great hardware 8g

and now Amazon Kindle HD 7" with better hardware, retina display, front facing camera and 16g at 199$

plus Kindle HD 9" 299$...

 

INCREDIBLE price with hardware!

besides the 150$ old kindle fire(over price) and the ridiculous LTE version

(250$ more for an LTE is DOA for 50$ you can buy 2 wifi Kindle HD's) plus US exclusivity

this is a game changer for the tablet market. Nexus hardwear is sub par and

Samsung tablets are to expensive compare to Amazon offerings.

Plus the Amazon android skin makes it easier for normal consumers and exempt of law suits.

 

Now Apple has to choose to dominate the Tablet market or allow Amazon to take huge

margins of the market this Holiday season like Samsung did on the smart phone market.

It can release the iPad mini at 199$ (even without retina with its ecosystem it will beat kindle HD 7")

and cut 100$ to ipad 2 $299(less powerful than kindle HD 9" with no retina but 1" larger screen and the apple ecosystem)

ipad 3 at 399$.

 

Microsoft will never be able to compete with the Surface RT at this prices because it does not have Apple

volume purchase of parts cheap.

 

The Tablet Wars is between Amazon and Apple Both have the Ecosystem and simple OS, is

on Apple to compete on price and dominate the Tablet market Both in the consumer market and educational

or Open the door to Amazon...

 

 

P.S. in the next 12 months Tablet Sales will be Bigger than PC sales and Windows 8 Tablets

wont be in there in big numbers because they wont even be close to these prices. In 2 years the

Tech World will be VERY DIFFERENT. Exiting times are ahead...

post #89 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No, you were correct as well in that one should question why is the price too low. It was just that by the time you posted I had both questioned and then arrived at a conclusion based on that question. I'll stick with Apple. They don't play games with the price. On face value the prices they charge seem fair to me. I do buy a lot of stuff from Amazon though but mostly through partner dealers. Things like home goods and computer parts. I have never purchased any media from them aside from actual printed books.

I'm sticking with Apple, too, because, like most people here, we have a long history of buying Apple's products and getting great value for our products, but I do think Amazon's offerings appear to be quite good for what you get.

Look at the Kindle, it's been at or below cost from the start but if I were to recommend an eReader to anyone it would be the Kindle, hands down, despite the fact that up until today I've never seen an eInk based device that I even remotely wanted.

The dark grey text on light grey screen was always difficult to read. It's like reading a wet newspaper to me. This new Paperwhite device might actually make me interested despite having no real interest in eInk as a technology and being perfectly happy with my iPad.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #90 of 108
So I have a question on Amazon's stategy. So they sell the hardware at cost or a loss figuring they'll make it up in content sales. Have they ever disclosed the content sales related to the Kindle Fire? I'd curious to know how well that model is working. Bezos is arguing in favor of his model over Apple's but that only works if people are willing to frequently spend money on content. He might think its a good business model but I think it could have a negative effect of setting an artificially low price that other companies will struggle to compete with. Consumers expecting tablets to be $199, and anything more than that they feel they're being ripped off.
post #91 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Consumers expecting tablets to be $199, and anything more than that they feel they're being ripped off.

That will be true if Apple fails to clearly communicate what makes the iPad uniquely worth it.

Shouldn't be hard for a company that hasn't joined the race to the bottom in computers, phones, music players, and tablets. Ever.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #92 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This guy, and this company have shown many times before how deceitful and how "anti-customer" they are.  

 

 

 

I don't dispute the rest of your post, but I have found Amazon to be extremely customer-friendly. I have no experience with their hardware, but their sales and service is amazing. Quite a few times when the shipments were lost during transit, they replaced the entire thing free of cost. Any complaint or query mailed to them was responded to within 12 hours. Bezos may be everything you say - and Amazon's insistence on not releasing Kindle numbers but claiming 22% of the market is obviously suspicious. But as a retailer, I have no complaints about them.

post #93 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

iPad mini will almost certainly be a failure at anything above $250 or so.  It should probably hit the $200 spot to really succeed.  

 

The market for 7" or "small" tablets is completely settled at around $200.  $50 extra "because it's Apple" will probably fly, but $100?  I don't think so. 

 

They aren't that desirable and this is an entirely new product category for Apple.  They need to entice people in.  The average person rightly or wrongly is going to see the Nexus 7 and then the iPad mini right beside it in the "small tablets" section of Futureshop or wherever and they will pick the one that's half the price of the other (if the mini is indeed $400 as you say).  

hmm.. iPad mini is not "7". It is 8" or around that. At $250 it will be the death for all 7" Android devices.


Edited by matrix07 - 9/7/12 at 1:36am
post #94 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

That will be true if Apple fails to clearly communicate what makes the iPad uniquely worth it.
Shouldn't be hard for a company that hasn't joined the race to the bottom in computers, phones, music players, and tablets. Ever.
It shouldn't be but that's one thing Steve Jobs could do better than anyone else. Not sure Tim Cook or Phil Schiller have the same touch. Jony Ive maybe but he doesn't do keynotes.
post #95 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Now let's see if iPad mini will be cheaper.

Probably not. iPad mini and Kindle cater to different customers.

post #96 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


It shouldn't be but that's one thing Steve Jobs could do better than anyone else. Not sure Tim Cook or Phil Schiller have the same touch. Jony Ive maybe but he doesn't do keynotes.

Please don't tell me Apple without Jobs is like Beatles without John, or The Who without Townsend...

post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Please don't tell me Apple without Jobs is like Beatles without John, or The Who without Townsend...
Steve Jobs was the ultimate salesman. Tim Cook and Phil Schiller can't hold a candle to him in that department.
post #98 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Steve Jobs was the ultimate salesman. Tim Cook and Phil Schiller can't hold a candle to him in that department.

True, an Bill Gates was one of the best project executer in his time. If you have Jobs at the front presenting and selling, and Gates in the back running the office, what would that be?

post #99 of 108
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post
If you have Jobs at the front presenting and selling, and Gates in the back running the office, what would that be?

 

A better world in which we never lived wherein the industry didn't stagnate for 15 years.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #100 of 108

Well, I am saying Jobs and Gates can be look at as both side of the same coin. One has what the ther lacks.

post #101 of 108
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post
Well, I am saying Jobs and Gates can be look at as both side of the same coin. One has what the ther lacks.

 

Sure!

 

… How'd we get on this from the Kindle? lol.gif

 

Did you know that the spec sheets for the various Kindle models at Best Buy actually say, … Ah, frick, I forget what they say. I knew I should have taken a picture of it. They actually advertise the OS-level ads as a feature.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #102 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Those other products make sense being sold at a loss because one is basically forced to buy other things. A game console is practically worthless without the games that need to be purchased and a printer needs ink, but one can buy a Kindle Fire and use it without ever buying another thing from Amazon. It's really a risky move.

Yes, you CAN never buy another thing from Amazon, but Amazon makes it very easy to continue buying things from them. I'm sure Amazon has the numbers to know how much current Kindle owners buy from them.

 

I'm glad to see the continued improvements it tablets - higher PPI, brighter screens. And the eReaders keep getting better, too. It's a fast moving technology space. All of the "device makers" - Samsung, et al - are going to have a rough time competing with "service" companies who can sell the hardware for a loss to make up the money on future sales.

 

- Jasen.

post #103 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Those other products make sense being sold at a loss because one is basically forced to buy other things. A game console is practically worthless without the games that need to be purchased and a printer needs ink, but one can buy a Kindle Fire and use it without ever buying another thing from Amazon. It's really a risky move.

 

 

I am not going to argue with that.  Furthermore, I am not saying that what Amazon is doing is wise or smart.  It is far from a sure thing.  They are taking A LOT of risks, but I personally feel they have reason too.  They've become a major playing by selling physical books, music, and movies.  They see the writing on the wall.  If they don't become a major playing in the sell of digital content they're finished.  So they are taking major risks to ensure their survival.  Sort of an all-in approach that will either make or break them.

post #104 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No, you were correct as well in that one should question why is the price too low. It was just that by the time you posted I had both questioned and then arrived at a conclusion based on that question. I'll stick with Apple. They don't play games with the price. On face value the prices they charge seem fair to me. I do buy a lot of stuff from Amazon though but mostly through partner dealers. Things like home goods and computer parts. I have never purchased any media from them aside from actual printed books.

 

I honestly don't disagree with you on sticking with Apple.  I am only considering a Kindle for my kids because of the parental controls (we've had issues) and I would rather hand something to my 7 year old that costs $199 than $499.  

 

That said, I am definitely waiting to see what Apple does with the iPad Mini.

 

One final thing I would like to say...I think Amazon and Apple are more similar than people realize have similar business strategies.  At least, I WANT to believe that.  Amazon and Apple both have high customer satisfaction.  These are two companies I WANT to see go after each other.  The are both customer focused and if they fight to outdo each other, guess who wins?  US.  We all do.  Whether you buy Apple or Amazon. 
 

I can't for the life of me think of a reason people would NOT want that.   I am sure someone will tell me, but that is where I am coming from and maybe gives you more info on my perspective.

 

Wishful thinking?   Perhaps...

 

(edit: corrected statement above to more accurately reflect opinion but left original intact incase of forthcoming reply)


Edited by rednival - 9/7/12 at 8:02am
post #105 of 108

$50 for an entire year of data at 250 MB per month is pretty awesome.  Amazon's recent licensing deal for EPIX content shows their trying to bolster their content offerings.   The kindle fire HD can probably do 90% of what I usually do on a tablet.  Although the resale value for the Ipads are much better and will probably more than offset the cheaper price of the Kindle fire HD has if you sell and upgrade.   

post #106 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conwaycf View Post

 

Go to Settings -> Restrictions, tap Enable Restrictions, enter a code that only controls restriction settings and add your parental controls.

Honestly if you think what is offered here is sufficient then you'd be the first person I know that thinks that.

 

There are games I would rather the kids not play or movies I'd rather they not watch but I still want access to them.  The iPad doesn't remember the previous restrictions if I disable them so I can access those few things.  To enable again I have to start over.  I have suggested to Apple it simply remember your settings and it would make it much more usable.  As it is now, I've simply removed what I REALLY don't want the kids getting into and try to keep a close eye on them for the things I cannot or do not want to remove.

post #107 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I think you may have been suckered by Bezos' lies (or "reality distortion field" if you want to be kinder about it).  

 

People seem to forget that Bezos is a well known shyster, that Amazon doesn't release sales figures, that the first Fire was a resounding dud with everyone that bought one, that it had horrible build quality, and horrible software etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. 

 

Why would anyone watch this dog and pony show and just take this crap at face value?  This guy, and this company have shown many times before how deceitful and how "anti-customer" they are.  Bezos plays fast and loose with the rules and always has done.  Based on past performance, nothing he says and nothing the company puts out as PR should really be believed. 

 

Let's wait until there are some actual devices in the hand and reviews of said devices.  

Not that anyone really cares.  The kindle Fire 1.0 was a POS according to every reviewer and most owners and didn't even sell very well, but if you read the tech news you will find most reviewers just regurgitating Amazons constant insistences that the exact opposite is true.  

 

In an age where few true journalists exist anymore and none are willing to actually investigate the claims made by a-holes like this it's pretty much what we have to expect (the public perception being 100% opposite to the reality).

 

You obviously have an issue with Jeff Bezos, so much so that you apparently find it offensive that I do not.

 

.....And you think I have a "reality distortion field"?

post #108 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

True, an Bill Gates was one of the best project executer in his time. If you have Jobs at the front presenting and selling, and Gates in the back running the office, what would that be?

They would've done what Pinky and the Brain never could, take over the world.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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