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Amazon announces $499 Kindle Fire HD 4G LTE with $50/year data plan - Page 2

post #41 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't follow. How is there no benefit from having the option to use cellular data connectivity?

 

How fast can 4G LTE chew through 250MB?

 

Ten minutes, an hour?

 

What do you do for the rest of the month?

 

It's like a V8 car with a one gallon gas tank.

 

A waste of time.

 

How much data do you get for the extra "$400 a year" the article mentions?

 

Here in Australia $30 a month can get you 8GB.

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post #42 of 124

Next up will be the "Fire Phone"....

post #43 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Wild -- I wonder what carrier is being used, and if Amazon is somehow subsidizing the LTE coverage. If not, then Apple should go kick AT&T and VZ in the nuts and demand a better deal for iPad users. 

ATT, and they can't pull the old switcheroo for a year than a few months like they did with the iPad.
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post #44 of 124
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Amazon


Ah, Gill Sans. That's what Apple used on their presentation slides before Myriad. Brings back memories. Such as memories of the 2nd-gen Kindle, which gave you as much free data as you needed to download the books you wanted. Granted, it was only for books, but it was free.


Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post
If not, then Apple should go kick AT&T and VZ in the nuts and demand a better deal for iPad users. 

 

Apple should be doing this regardless of what their competitors do. lol.gif


Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

My only question is how are they getting the LTE? What service is it through....

 

AT&T, from the logo on the slide.

post #45 of 124

Perhaps I'm missing something but, what version of Android is this running? It seems like the only thing we've heard is the screen size, storage, wireless information and price. If this is running anything other than Jellybean, it's a huge show stopper for me as a developer.

post #46 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by morgajx View Post

Well I think this September is going to be a real wakeup call. Its been coming for a while. You get the superb but expensive and non-upgradeable and ultimately disposable MBP Retina, no new Mac Pro for years, no Imac for over a year then the new iphone ( if the leaks are accurate ) looks like its a dog.  The ipad mini probably will be under-speced.

 

Instead of doing minor incremental updates and overpricing their products ( I can never believe when some forum members cheer about profit margins being 40% or over are they not consumers ?) maybe they will get their finger out and start delivering again.

 

The executive team seem too busy awarding themselves $50 million + in shares to notice that all their products are being equalled and surpassed.

 

Five years of iPhones, five years of comments like this.

 

Is there anything new?

 

It's deja vu.

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post #47 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I guess they could include only 4G LTE with no support for any 3G or 2G* cellular technology but I've never seen such a device. Still, even if they do I don't see how 3GB for $50 is a bad deal over a year. As I stated earlier I pay $20 a month and never come close to 250MB on my iPad.
LTE doesn't use more data, it just loads faster so you can potentially get more completed faster. Sure, it gives the option of getting higher quality content in the same time frame than with a slower connection but if that is something to complain about then why aren't we up in arms about 3G, modern web pages, or data on phones in any regard. An email is an email. Regardless if it's dial-up or 4G LTE the file sent is the same size.
* 2G would only be relevant to GSM-based networks since CDMA is used for voice, not data.

I never understand people that say LTE will make them use more data, like the device has a gun to their head. A episode of The Walking Dead or Mad Men takes the same amount of time to watch whether it's on 3G or LTE, a ebook might download a few seconds faster but you're not going to read it any faster.
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post #48 of 124

Agree...  Apple has been coasting the last couple of years, racking up billions in cash and only providing incremental updates...  Still have my original iPad...  No reason to update...  Still have my 2010 Mac Air...  Still no reason to update...   Still have my 2010 i Mac...   Still no reason to update...  Still have my 2009 iPod...   Still no reason to update...   Did update my iPhone 4 to 4S, what a joke...   I am not a Kindle fan, but I hope someone wakes up Apple for us...   iPad mini rumored to use iPhone 3g parts, how lame is that...

post #49 of 124

I think the point is that many if not most people who buy the Kindle, or any tablet for that matter, don't scrutinize the specs and make very intelligent calculations. There are too many numbers involved. What they see is Tablet, 32gb, LTE (which apparently is wicked fast), 50 per month, oh and $499.-. They also see Amazon = books, music games... I am sure it will sell well. 

But how much does Amazon make on this hw? And how much do they make on content? Doesn't Apple make at least as much on the content? 

post #50 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Kindle

Why is that people only complain about the bezel when it comes to Apple products. That bezel looks excessive for the display size and not a single post about it and yet people will complain about the iPhone forehead and chin existing even thought they contain components needed for basic operation.

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post #51 of 124

Comment Deleted

 

Someone else beat me to my comment. Guess that's what I get for not reading all the comments before I post.


Edited by Mynameisjoe - 9/6/12 at 2:16pm
post #52 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Ok so a one year cost of $50.00.  If you go over you get charged extra?  Or do you just simply get locked out of any data usage till the next month.  I still think that a month to month plan is better.  If I want a larger plan next month because I am gonna be out of town and will be using more data I have that flexibility.  Instead of upgrading to a larger tier for the whole year.  Cmon.  This sounds like the old Cell Phone Company ploy to lock you into a contract.

 

...or hit people up for overages.

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post #53 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I never understand people that say LTE will make them use more data, like the device has a gun to their head. A episode of The Walking Dead or Mad Men takes the same amount of time to watch whether it's on 3G or LTE, a ebook might download a few seconds faster but you're not going to read it any faster.

Not directly to do with LTE but the increased speed coupled with the larger amounts of data related to the higher screen res will increase data volume. Besides that, the easier (quicker) it is to access information on the web the more it becomes useful, by which measure we can assume that a faster connection will result in more data. It ain't necessarily so, but I think my data usage has steadily increased since the day of my first modem.

post #54 of 124

Anybody noticed the BEZEL???? It's so big it borders on criminally insane!!

 

 

;-)

post #55 of 124

"Well Apple is screwed with this move" "What a bold look into the future by Amazon, they innovate so well" "Well it looks like the iPad is going down"

 

I think I have that covered.

 

 


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post #56 of 124

It's the $10 a month app store gift card that interests me. Is Amazon subsidizing Android app development for the Kindle FIre?

 
post #57 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolie View Post

Agree...  Apple has been coasting the last couple of years, racking up billions in cash and only providing incremental updates...  Still have my original iPad...  No reason to update...  Still have my 2010 Mac Air...  Still no reason to update...   Still have my 2010 i Mac...   Still no reason to update...  Still have my 2009 iPod...   Still no reason to update...   Did update my iPhone 4 to 4S, what a joke...   I am not a Kindle fan, but I hope someone wakes up Apple for us...   iPad mini rumored to use iPhone 3g parts, how lame is that...

 

So obviously having things that meet your needs has cost you less than being on a competitor's upgrade cycle.

 

2008 MacBook here with Mountain Lion.

 

2010 iPhone 4 with iOS 5, soon to be updated to 6.

 

I'll upgrade to the next iPhone on my same plan, it should not cost anything more than I currently pay.

 

One reason NOT to update, it costs you money, there is no "Apple Tax" to complain about.

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post #58 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I never understand people that say LTE will make them use more data, like the device has a gun to their head. A episode of The Walking Dead or Mad Men takes the same amount of time to watch whether it's on 3G or LTE, a ebook might download a few seconds faster but you're not going to read it any faster.

 You can't seriously see the other side of the argument, can you?

 

I'll use your argument. Let's download an episode of The Walking Dead. If you have a slow connection with a legacy display resolution, you download the SD version weighing in at a few hundred MBs. But if you have a faster connection (say LTE) with an HD screen, SD episodes look blurry and less enjoyable. So you download the HD version weighing in at over 1GB. Same with photos, 2 megapixel photos are decidedly poor quality now. Now the standard is 8+ MP photos, that use a lot more data, and lets sync all those to the cloud drive.

 

Sure, there's no gun to your head, but you don't enjoy the experience as much. What's the point of buying an HD screen with a blazing internet connection, only to be gimped by a piddling data cap. There is simply no point throwing LTE onto a device like this with a data package that is so limited. They could've gone with a cheaper, less power-hungry tech and actually gotten a profit margin out of this thing. Or not made the cellular-enabled device $200 more expensive than the wifi-only one.

 

I say just stay off the wireless networks and use the wifi you're already paying for at home/work/starbucks/mcdonalds/b&n.

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post #59 of 124

The Fire didn't really sell up until now. So what's changed that is actually *significant*?  Not much. 

 

Another failed "iPad-KIller" trying to compete on price and perks (related to price.) Usually a losing proposition against Apple in this particular market (big time.)

post #60 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Ok so a one year cost of $50.00.  If you go over you get charged extra?  Or do you just simply get locked out of any data usage till the next month.  I still think that a month to month plan is better.  If I want a larger plan next month because I am gonna be out of town and will be using more data I have that flexibility.  Instead of upgrading to a larger tier for the whole year.  Cmon.  This sounds like the old Cell Phone Company ploy to lock you into a contract.

 It's confirmed ATT provides the service, Amazon is subsidizing the cost through the $200 extra charge between the wifi-only model and the wifi+lte model (as opposed to iPad's $130 extra for lte model), and ATT's standard overage fees apply (for every 250MB you go over = $14.99).

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post #61 of 124

Hmmm I'll just lay a few things out after reading a bit.... these 8.9" Kindle Fires aren't coming out until November 20th, most likely after the iPad Mini is released. The 4th generation iPad will be released 3 1/2~ months after these as well. You then have to assume Apple will drop the price of the 3rd Gen to $399 with the new more powerful 4th Gen at the $499 price point. I also looked up the GPU in the new 8.9" Kindle Fires and it's roughly half as powerful as the iPad 2. The performance in games is going to suck a bit with the increased resolution. The price of the devices is attractive though, more so than what you get with a Nexus 7, curious which version of Android it's actually running on.

post #62 of 124
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Why is that people only complain about the bezel when it comes to Apple products. That bezel looks excessive for the display size and not a single post about it and yet people will complain about the iPhone forehead and chin existing even thought they contain components needed for basic operation.

 

I think your image in that quote might be life-size on my display. And man, that thing has a stupid size. Not to mention the bezel, yeah. 


Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post
Another failed "iPad-KIller" trying to compete on price and perks (related to price.) Usually a losing proposition against Apple in this particular market (big time.)

 

What the competition is utterly terrified to tell you is that Apple could kill every single one of them right now by dropping the iPad 2 to $299, since it still seems to out power and outperform everything they're releasing. Not to mention it's a usable size.

post #63 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolie View Post

Agree...  Apple has been coasting the last couple of years, racking up billions in cash and only providing incremental updates...  Still have my original iPad...  No reason to update...  Still have my 2010 Mac Air...  Still no reason to update...   Still have my 2010 i Mac...   Still no reason to update...  Still have my 2009 iPod...   Still no reason to update...   Did update my iPhone 4 to 4S, what a joke...   I am not a Kindle fan, but I hope someone wakes up Apple for us...   iPad mini rumored to use iPhone 3g parts, how lame is that...


not everyone has the original ipad. not everyone has an 2010 Air/iMac. Why don't you say this about other equipment? Still have my 2011 Camry, no reason to update to 2012/2013. Still have my 2010 refrigerator, no reason to update to the newest model. If YOU have no reason to update, it doesn't mean that no one else does either. They aren't selling to you. If you need to upgrade your PC in two years, then you must have a Windoze issue.

 

I didn't have an iPhone 4 so I gladly ditched my android for the 4S.

post #64 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Wait… high-speed LTE, capped at only 250MB a month? That's 30Mb a day… I can burn through that much with some light news browsing...

And 20Gb of Cloud Storage? That doesn't add up…

You only get 3GB PER YEAR of data transfer @ 250MB a month… how can you make full use of a 20GB cloud drive?

Wifi. You're assuming that people only use the tablet when there is no wifi available. Using it at home, most hotels, work or while at a friends house would generally not be consuming data from the 250MB allotment.
post #65 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The Fire didn't really sell up until now. So what's changed that is actually *significant*?  Not much. 

Another failed "iPad-KIller" trying to compete on price and perks (related to price.) Usually a losing proposition against Apple in this particular market (big time.)

Why does anything have to kill a iDevice to sell well? These are very decent alternatives to the iPad and a big improvement over the Kindle Fire.
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post #66 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

How fast can 4G LTE chew through 250MB?

Ten minutes, an hour?

What do you do for the rest of the month?

It's like a V8 car with a one gallon gas tank.

A waste of time.

How much data do you get for the extra "$400 a year" the article mentions?

Here in Australia $30 a month can get you 8GB.

How fast can a 36Mb/s connection (what I just tested on my iPad) eat through 10GB of data? That's 4.5MB/s which is under 38 minutes. Does that mean that 10GB of data per month isn't enough for the average person because there is more than 38 minutes in a month? Does that mean that we shouldn't have 4G speeds on our devices?

And what's with this one gallon gas tank analogy? Wouldn't it make more sense to say you only use 1 gallon of fuel in a time frame and wonder how far that can take you? If you only work a mile from your home and live in a city where you don't drive too much doesn't that make it a more apropos comparison?

I can't believe all these cynical comments about the Kindle Fire. If they didn't offer cellular connectivity you'd all be complaining about that, but they did... and with 4G LTE.. and with a great data plan option for the average user. There is absolutely nothing to hate on this about. It might not be right for you (I certainly have no plans to buy one) but that doesn't means it's not an attractive and aggressive prices.

These negative comments from the Apple camp are exactly the same tone as those anti-Apple posters who come here to pooh-pooh any new Apple product.

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post #67 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post


This doesn't make sense. Amazon Prime will still be supported, so will Kindle books and I am assuming the internet will still be there, so how is one generation 'incompatible' with another?

It makes perfect sense.

The Internet with all its flaws and newly found security exploits will be there, but no fixes from Amazon. App developers will have a fun time supporting multiple generations of HW and OS, with no hope of deficiencies and bugs ever being fixed.

New features available on new HW won't be available on old HW even if the old HW would otherwise be capable of supporting the new features.

 

Amazon does treat Kindles like the razor vs. razorblades model, except the razors are also disposable.

post #68 of 124
Quote:
the company decided 4G LTE connectivity is the "ultimate tablet feature." The company developed its own cellular modem that's smaller and supports all 10 wireless bands.

Get ready for the lawsuits!

post #69 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Apple sells lots of Wi-Fi only iPads that do not have GPS, so it's probably not a factor for a lot of people.

Not a factor for a lot of people because those desiring GPS haven't looked to the Kindle yet.

 

What would it cost to add a-GPS when Amazon is already charging an arm and a leg just for an extra 16 GB and LTE? The high end model is hardly a bargain. Oh, you might think it's cheap because you're comparing it to older hardware, but realistically (and historically) the price is expected to drop 50% per year for the same features.

post #70 of 124

That works out to being able to stream 1 song a day without breaking your cap -  a real 'bargain' along with the adverts on the lock screen.


Edited by markbyrn - 9/6/12 at 3:20pm
post #71 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I never understand people that say LTE will make them use more data, like the device has a gun to their head. A episode of The Walking Dead or Mad Men takes the same amount of time to watch whether it's on 3G or LTE, a ebook might download a few seconds faster but you're not going to read it any faster.

Vastly increased data usage occurs before the user knows it, especially when migrating up from a 3G platform. On LTE, the pregnant pauses to buffer a newly requested video are much reduced and, before you've gotten very far into the video, the entire file has been downloaded--even if you have no intention of watching more than a few seconds. Result: completely wasted bandwidth and $$

post #72 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post

What a complete and utter ripoff.  That works out to about $3.90 a month for 20 MB per month or - about 3-5 songs a month downloaded and you've blown your cap. With that "bargain", you get dunned with ads on the lock screen.  

Uh, that's $50 for a year of service and 250 MB data usage per month every month of the year.

post #73 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Uh, that's $50 for a year of service and 250 MB data usage per month every month of the year.

Thanks for the correction - at least you can stream 1 song a day and not go over the cap. 

post #74 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Quote:
the company decided 4G LTE connectivity is the "ultimate tablet feature." The company developed its own cellular modem that's smaller and supports all 10 wireless bands.
Get ready for the lawsuits!

It'll be interesting to see if they paid for all the licenses. I do agree that it's highly likely they will be sued for it.

It's also interesting that it supports 10 wireless bands. Does that mean 10 LTE operating bands? If so, that gives me hope that the next iPhone will have a Qualcomm chip that supports something similar.

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post #75 of 124
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And what's with this one gallon gas tank analogy? Wouldn't it make more sense to say you only use 1 gallon of fuel in a time frame and wonder how far that can take you? If you only work a mile from your home and live in a city where you don't drive too much doesn't that make it a more apropos comparison?

 

A one gallon gas tank would make sense on a 50cc moped but not in a 5 litre V8 car.

 

250MB a month makes sense on 2G not on 4G.

 

Amazon has baited the trap, prepare for people running up large bills, no wonder AT&T went for this deal.

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post #76 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

A lot of people have service on their iPad all year round. Many users are still using the grandfathered AT&T $30 per month unlimited plan since 2010, which means they've been paying each month without interruption. When you consider that $50 per year is almost the same cost as 3 months on AT&T's cheapest plan ($45 vs $50), that means you'll be saving quite a lot of money each year, around $130, if you use less than 250 megabytes per month and want the convenience of having 4G at all times.

 

 

 

How do people get their unlimited $30 per month data plan grandfathered to cover an iPad?   The AT&T uniimited plans were only available on iPhones.  You can grandfather it over to a new iPhone, but how do you add an iPad to that same unlimited plan?    I thought you got a new plan when you get a iPad with cellular.

post #77 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgajx View Post

Well I think this September is going to be a real wakeup call. Its been coming for a while. You get the superb but expensive and non-upgradeable and ultimately disposable MBP Retina, no new Mac Pro for years, no Imac for over a year then the new iphone ( if the leaks are accurate ) looks like its a dog.  The ipad mini probably will be under-speced.

Instead of doing minor incremental updates and overpricing their products ( I can never believe when some forum members cheer about profit margins being 40% or over are they not consumers ?) maybe they will get their finger out and start delivering again.

The executive team seem too busy awarding themselves $50 million + in shares to notice that all their products are being equalled and surpassed.

Five years of iPhones, five years of comments like this.

Is there anything new?

It's deja vu.

Or, déjà vu do-do...
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post #78 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

 

How do people get their unlimited $30 per month data plan grandfathered to cover an iPad?   The AT&T uniimited plans were only available on iPhones.  You can grandfather it over to a new iPhone, but how do you add an iPad to that same unlimited plan?    I thought you got a new plan when you get a iPad with cellular.

For the first month of the iPad I think they still only offered the unlimited plan $30/month plan.

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post #79 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Not a factor for a lot of people because those desiring GPS haven't looked to the Kindle yet.

 

What would it cost to add a-GPS when Amazon is already charging an arm and a leg just for an extra 16 GB and LTE? The high end model is hardly a bargain. Oh, you might think it's cheap because you're comparing it to older hardware, but realistically (and historically) the price is expected to drop 50% per year for the same features.

 

Arm and a leg? Let's compare - Wi-Fi based Kindle Fire HD 8.9 16gb vs iPad 3rd generation 16gb (no GPS), $299 vs $499, a $200 difference - 4G enabled Kindle Fire HD 32gb vs iPad 3rd generation 32gb (with GPS), $499 vs $729, a $230 difference.

 

Could add a GPS in the Kindle for $30? I have no idea, but it's obvious that's not what the Kindle is designed to do. It isn't meant to be everything - it's meant to be a Kindle, just as the iPad is meant only to be an iPad. If GPS is important to you, the Kindle Fire HD is not going to work for you. I'm willing to bet most people don't know about GPS in the iPad nor care about it. It's a niche add-on.

 

Also, what are you talking about when you mean "comparing it to older hardware?" Amazon has *never* released a Kindle Fire tablet with cellular before, and the prices for it undercut Apple's tablet by at least $200. If you factor the same 250 megabyte plan for each device, the Kindle comes in at $49.99 a year, while the iPad comes in at $179.88 per year for the cheapest plan in the US. As Amazon pointed out, the difference in ownership of the first year is nearly $350 for the basic plan.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

You've pretty much made my point. Integrating LTE on the device makes no sense with that kind of data plan because 1) you won't be getting very much data over cellular and 2) the LTE capable radio does use more battery than a non LTE one.

 

I'm not arguing against LTE. It's great. I have it on my iPad and soon on my iPhone. My point is that the matching data plan, while a perfectly fine deal for the quota you get, doesn't match up with the need to have a high bandwidth capable technology like LTE. There's a mismatch. It's the equivalent of having FiOS with a quota based on a 56k modem utilization. I'm just saying Amazon is wasting money on its BOM because they're putting hardware in the device that people won't be able to leverage.

 

I'm still not understanding your point, actually. You're somehow suggesting that a slower, less efficient, and *more expensive* cellular technology makes more sense to use than a modern, more efficient and faster network. I'm willing to bet that LTE will be the *only* option on this device, and 3G won't be enabled at all. Why? Again, expense. You'd need to add more components to support 3G, which ads to the cost of manufacturing the device, and has only a marginal benefit of coverage that will no longer be a problem in a few years when LTE coverage is everywhere.

 

I'm betting that battery life on 3G+LTE-enabled devices is worse than 3G by itself because it has to support two completely different antenna types, networks, and data handling. By eliminating 3G, you probably eliminate a lot of the battery drain as well. So again, LTE benefits users and carriers, which results in faster networks at lower prices. That's *exactly* what we want.

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post #80 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

 

How do people get their unlimited $30 per month data plan grandfathered to cover an iPad?   The AT&T uniimited plans were only available on iPhones.  You can grandfather it over to a new iPhone, but how do you add an iPad to that same unlimited plan?    I thought you got a new plan when you get a iPad with cellular.

 

When the iPad was originally announced, it had the option of an unlimited data plan for $29.99. A few weeks after the 3G version was released, AT&T changed the data plans to a 2gb maximum for $30. Those who had activated the unlimited plan before the cut-off date were allowed to keep those plans and carry them over to future iPads.

 

You can find videos on YouTube with Steve Jobs talking about this "breakthrough" deal with AT&T at the original launch event.

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