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Apple unveils redesigned iPhone 5 with 4-inch display, 4G LTE - Page 10

post #361 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

He's referring to a sensor that detects ambient light levels for the purpose of adjusting screen brightness. Typically, these detect a single color, G, which can cause problems under fluorescent lighting. Once again, though, this is a feature that, while it may look good on a checklist, doesn't mean much if you aren't having problems adjusting screen brightness to begin with. I have no idea what sort of sensor Apple uses for this, and I doubt the OP does either.

But, this sort of thing does show the ridiculous lengths some will go to to find something to criticize.

I was referring to the sensors listed in the specs, not the camera. Yes, it is ridiculous to list new sensors for the sake of making a bigger list and not explain what it does. For each sensor Apple had added, Steve Jobs had carefully explained its purpose. The competition at first did not include them in their products. Later, they outright copied them. Now, Samsung thinks they're trying to out-Apple by throwing "new" ones in the mix.

The iPhone sensor in order of introduction (first 6 introduced in original)

1. Accelerometer
2. Ambient light
3. Proximity
4. GPS
5. Microphone
6. Mult-touch
7. E-compass (magtometer)
8. 3-axis gyroscope
9. Noise-canceling microphone

The barometer Samsung added is nice, but not neccessary. From a developer's point of view, it can be used for weather apps and for navigation apps as it can also determine a person's altitude. If the RGB sensor is an expanded ambient light sensor, why do they list it in addition to an ambient light sensor?

I'm a programmer and I love writing code with access to sensors because I can write code that's more user friendly based on real-world conditions going on. In the future, I would like to see an advanced proximity sensor that can detect how close 3-dimensionally objects may be. Other sensors could be a thermometer, humidity sensor, IR light sensor...
post #362 of 384
Does anyone know when this was designed? If Steve Jobs was still in charge then, or if this is the first product Tim Cook supervised from start to finish? I'm guessing we're still in the era of Steve Jobs-approved products...
post #363 of 384
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post
Does anyone know when this was designed? If Steve Jobs was still in charge then, or if this is the first product Tim Cook supervised from start to finish? I'm guessing we're still in the era of Steve Jobs-approved products...

 

Everything but the name of the thing is all Steve, I imagine. There would obviously be design, software, and marketing decisions made since his death, but it's certainly something he saw before that. Even the 7th iPhone would have been in previs planning stages before he died, though that's going to be nearly entirely New Apple's doing.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #364 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post


... If the RGB sensor is an expanded ambient light sensor, why do they list it in addition to an ambient light sensor? ...

 

So, you don't know what it is, but you're excited about? OK.

post #365 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, you don't know what it is, but you're excited about? OK.

How do you get that impression? How could I be excited about it if I don't know what it is?
post #366 of 384

How come this article is no longer listed on the main page of this site?

post #367 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post
That's partly a feature of iOS 6, but iOS 6 is a major part of the upgrade! People are also saying; ugh, the camera is the same. But it's not. It's got the same Rez, but better low light ability, and lower noise, with higher dynamic range, along with a new lens.

 

From the reports of the iPhone event as well the info on Apple's website (http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/), my impression is that the camera changes amount to making the lens assembly smaller and various software tweaks (such as the "better" NR). We won't know for sure until somebody does a teardown.

post #368 of 384

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


My iPhone 4S takes very sharp pictures. Noise reduction isn't an issue, as every review of the phone will tell you, until you get down to very low light levels. And then I use HDR, which works remarkedly well. With the new phone talki g pictures 40% faster, and the demo of that was pretty good, it will make those HDR's much better. And no, they aren't garish, at least on the 4S (haven't seen them yet on the 5).
Every ti e Apple has said the camera was better, it was. I see no reason to disbelieve them now. And, by the way, it's thought that Apple switched sensor manufacturers back, if so, it is a different sensor, and likely a newer design.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'd be more than happy with the image quality from the 4S. I'm still using a 3GS, and while the camera improvement between 3GS and 4 was very large, the 4 still wasn't quite there for me as a replacement for a P&S. The 4S on the other hand is. That is why I'm actually deciding between upgrading my wife's 4 to a 5 and my 3GS to a 4S, or getting 5's for the both of us. I'm actually waiting to see if they lower the price of the unlocked 4S (it was $549 yesterday) - if the price difference between unlocked 4S and 5 turns out to be $150 or less, I'll go with the latter option.

 

Anyways, all I was saying was that I see signs of NR (detail smearing) in the photos on Apple's site, which suggest to me that there are no significant changes to the sensor tech this time around. And I sure hope they didn't switch away from Sony as the sensor supplier, as Sony is currently at the forefront of imaging sensor tech.

post #369 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But, as we've been talking about camera sensors, and a couple of people here have asserted, because the camera still is 8 MP, that the same sensor is being used, I referred to the thinking that Apple is no longer using Sony for the sensor, and has gone back to their previous supplier (who recently made a statement that their sales are way up again), and so would be using a different, improved version.
To bolster this new sensor thinking, here's some evidence:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/12/Apple-iPhone-5-vs-iPhone-4S-image-comparison

 

I looked at the two photos in that comparison, and while we can't read too much into it because it is not a controlled comparison, I don't detect any differences in dynamic range (look at the shadows in the trees).

 

That said, the two photos were taken in remarkably similar circumstances - similar weather conditions, and judging from the EXIF - near identical scene brightness and similar time of day (the 4S photo was taken on 7/14 at 13:15 while the 5 was taking on 8/13 at 14:22). The only concrete visual difference that I can conclude from these two photos is that the 5 has a slightly warmer colour balance, perhaps due to a difference in how the 5 processes photos. Some dpreview members have correctly observed that the 4S photo is sharper in the foreground, but I think this is probably due to differences in the selected focus area.

 

One interesting piece of info is that the 5 was taken at ISO 50, whereas the minimum ISO of the 4S is commonly accepted to be 64. However, we can't draw any conclusions about the sensor from this as this change could also be due to  the software.

 

What we can conclude is that the lens is in fact different - 4.13mm vs 4.28mm for the 4S. But we had already guessed this would be the case from Apple's announcement.

post #370 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by ombra2105 View Post

Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave right now.

If Steve (whom I don't believe believed in a personal afterlife, but not my point if I'm wrong), is looking down on the Apple forums, he's gonna be damn restless in his grave - I see multiple claims of his being tweaked by events on earth daily here.  Enough already....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil View Post

They just stretched the screen adding a bit more vertical space, so now as App developer now I'll have a new resolution to handle. This means an added development/testing cost without a real big advantage in usability (just two more vertical lines of text). They'd better use a bigger screen keeping the same ratio and resolution, but I think they are trapped by their "Retina" marketing bs so I think this was the best compromise they found,  what is lame...

Note:  all of the main competitors the phone is head to head with are over 300 ppi now - and that's "Retina territory" - and more importantly to many maybe - the rest are true 720 p - which the iPhone is NOT. (Granted at least one is pentile tech, and I haven't seen detailed screen comparisons).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

It's a great phone and probably the best built phone on the market. Specs are top notch. The excitement just isn't there like it used to be. I foresee incremental upgrades from here on for all phones. What more can you shove in a phone?

 

I went to Verizon (several stores) in advance of the release to get plan details and two things were clear: 

 

1. Verizon sales staff are pushing people away from the iPhone.  HARD.  It's totally obvious.  I straight out asked them if they got smaller commissions on iPhone sales and they said (to a person), no, absolutely not - we just like the Android phones better.  I did NOT think to ask (at the time) if their managers were pushing them to push Android for reasons of less cost to Verizon though.  Not sure I got a straight answer to what I was asking, or especially if I would have to the question I didn't ask, but more's the pity. 

 

Whatever, expect the "hard non-sell" if you go to a Verizon store for your new iPhone....

 

2. One of the salesmen was an excellent Android demonstrator.  I was looking at the Droid 4 (because I still haven't had a great keyboardless experience and I'm a writer) - but he moved me over to the Galaxy IIIS and showed off both Swype and Dictation.  And I was impressed.

And I picked up an iPhone 4S - and - even with everything I know about Apple tech, Apple Design, Apple ecosystem, and all the keynotes and J. Ive videos I've followed, and use the T-word on me, still, in that store among its large screen brethren, it looked and felt like an unimpressive thick feeling outdated little brick - whose screen felt as puny in comparison to the bigger screen Androids as my old 2.5" feature phone does to any pre-iPhone 5 iPhone....

 

I was all set to grab one - and I probably will.  I read the Apple press, not Android.  And knowing Windows and OS X takes enough of my time.  And I understand the ecosystem and the synergies.  And appreciate the build quality. And the resale value.  And the just works parts.  But no, like many here, I'm not excited.  And I'm really not sure what I'll do when the moment comes.  I might even go Android Phone and iPad Mini to experiment with the two ecosystems... ....and make a real decision next year when I'm due to upgrade (or acquire for the first time) virtually all my digital devices (TV, router, computer, phone, tablet, etc.) after Win 8's been out for a spell and a few more things shake out.....

 

PS: the quality of the marble in the Barcelona, Spain store that "only Apple would do" will NOT figure into my decision.......  ....hype, hype, hooray notwithstanding......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Oh and let's not forget the cost of getting new cables/adapters for the old ones.
BTW, this has nothing to do with how the case looks. I don't need the worlds thinnest smartphone. How about a little thicker and the worlds best battery life. How about a little wider screen. The whole one hand thing is way overblown both in terms of fact and how often it even applies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post
Some people have bigger hands and could comfortably use a little more screen width but there are plenty with smaller hands who could not. Apple would have to introduce additional versions. In any case, I'm pretty sure that people whining for something like a wider screen really just don't get Apple. They're designing a product that is comfortable for everyone (and not everyone wants a huge electronic device glued to the side of their head and bulging in their pocket).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


And what do you, in all your wisdom, think most consumers expected that wasn't provided?
Unless you like gigantic phones that require cargo pants to pocket them, what does an Android phone have that this doesn't? What killer feature hardware wise is this missing that will be released in the next year?
Don't say NFC.

The SIII would fit any shirt pocket I own....  ....and given that there are a range of hand sizes (for those who CHOOSE to use their phones the way the iPhone team designed their ergonomics to be operated, and that Apple has all the capital in the world, I think think they could've solved the whole freaking thing by releasing TWO models - one for "man hands" (or for people who "iDevice two-handed" as I tend to do) - stretched out to where with size and width they just hit their own 300 ppi Retina def - which I'm thinking might have given them a 3:2 with about 4.3" or so inches and the other in the current size factor.

As in c'mon, that's not that far "out of the box"........  ....but Apple's declared "whadda you know"?  So meaningless to keep on about I guess. 

PS: I'm not lovin' the update on the Apple Logo that much.  Anybody else agree or disagree??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

So to go from 16gb to 32gb on the iPod Touch it's $50

To do the exact same thing on the new iPhone it's $100

Ok.......?

Could have something to do with possible iPad Mini pricing structures...  ...which given the Touch prices doesn't seem likely to come in close to what Google and Amazon are charging in that size area....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

Rather, what does this have, that an Android phone hasn't for the last year?

 

Don't say iOS.

 

All this amazing free press that Apple's garnered.  The Wall St. Journal had three pages of articles IN ADVANCE of the release - including the IP5's projected effect on the entire Gross Domestic Product.


Edited by bigpics - 9/14/12 at 7:28am

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #371 of 384
I just want to say something to put all those complaining about the new aspect ratio finally to rest. A few years back, when I got my first Apple iDivice (the third gen iTouch), I wondered about the future generations of this product, as well as the iPhone. In my head, I created a wish-list of features and design changes. Some of these, coincidentally, we're included in the fourth generation iTouch, such as the microphone, front and back cameras, and 3D gyroscope. On the top of my list, I wished for a 16:9 aspect ratio.

Why? Because all HD content (television, Blu-ray, and, now, streaming) is formatted in 16:9. Try watching an HD movie on an iPhone or iTouch (not including the new ones) and you have a choice between annoying black bars or the sides being cut off. Try watching a video recorded in HD on YouTube: same annoyance. For 720p, 1080i/p, 16:9 is the de facto standard. Games formatted originally for consoles are designed in that format in today's world and would be easier to port over to an Apple iDevice with a 16:9 ratio now, keeping the on-screen design the same as the console version.

If you own an AppleTV, try using AirPlay Mirroring with 16:9 content with a current iDevice (excluding the new ones). Even if you television screen is HD and has a 16:9 ratio, and even though the content you are mirroring is 16:9, you will see ugly and annoying double black bars both vertically and horizontally. If you use your television's zoom feature, you could cut off the vertical bars. If you zoom in further, you can cut off both the vertical and horizontal bars, but you'll be cutting off some vertical slices of content too; and, you'll loose some resolution, since this is the inherent nature of zoom.

If it's inconvenient or costs a bit of change for developers to test and reformat their apps to work currently with the new format, BIG DEAL! It's worth it. Because, if this is not done, the developer will loose out on all those potential MILLIONS and MILLIONS of new iPhone 5 and iPod Touch 4 customers, not to mention all future generation iPhones and iPod Touches, as well as the iPad Mini and further iPad generation models. While the latter is speculation on my part, I would certainly bet on it. If a developer chooses not to invest in testing and updating their apps to work neatly in 16:9, that developer would be foolish.

The entire screen format needs not be changed. All horizontal formatting, including text, can remain unchanged. Just add something vertical. That something could be extra lines of text, a status bar on the bottom, a menu bar at the top. Anything, really. Not difficult. It could also be an opportunity to add features originally intended but couldn't fit before.
post #372 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post

I just want to say something to put all those complaining about the new aspect ratio finally to rest. A few years back, when I got my first Apple iDivice (the third gen iTouch), I wondered about the future generations of this product, as well as the iPhone. In my head, I created a wish-list of features and design changes. Some of these, coincidentally, we're included in the fourth generation iTouch, such as the microphone, front and back cameras, and 3D gyroscope. On the top of my list, I wished for a 16:9 aspect ratio.
Why? Because all HD content (television, Blu-ray, and, now, streaming) is formatted in 16:9. Try watching an HD movie on an iPhone or iTouch (not including the new ones) and you have a choice between annoying black bars or the sides being cut off. Try watching a video recorded in HD on YouTube: same annoyance. For 720p, 1080i/p, 16:9 is the de facto standard. Games formatted originally for consoles are designed in that format in today's world and would be easier to port over to an Apple iDevice with a 16:9 ratio now, keeping the on-screen design the same as the console version.

 

Thanks Peter for this - originally I didn't think much of the 16:9 on the new iPhone/iTouch, but after reading your post I've been enlightened. I think you nailed it on the head - this is part of Apple's long-term strategy for taking over the living room.

 

Any guesses on when we'll see a 16:9 iPad?

post #373 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIA 
Any guesses on when we'll see a 16:9 iPad?

I don't think they'll go 16:9. 16:10 at the widest but I think 4:3 works well on the iPad. The iPhone is designed for one handed operation so 16:9 works great but the iPad is more like holding a sheet of electronic paper. An A4 page is pretty close to 4:3 so I don't see much reason to change it.
post #374 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post
1. Verizon sales staff are pushing people away from the iPhone.  HARD.  It's totally obvious.  I straight out asked them if they got smaller commissions on iPhone sales and they said (to a person), no, absolutely not - we just like the Android phones better.  I did NOT think to ask (at the time) if their managers were pushing them to push Android for reasons of less cost to Verizon though.  Not sure I got a straight answer to what I was asking, or especially if I would have to the question I didn't ask, but more's the pity. 

 

Whatever, expect the "hard non-sell" if you go to a Verizon store for your new iPhone....

 

They aren't exactly lying (about their "commissions"), but they aren't being entirely honest either. It may not change their "commission" but it's pretty well known that most of the Android manufacturers are paying spiffs. It's also well known that Verizon (and other carriers) are pushing their sales staff very hard to push Android phones onto customers because they get more control and it costs them less.

post #375 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't think they'll go 16:9. 16:10 at the widest but I think 4:3 works well on the iPad. The iPhone is designed for one handed operation so 16:9 works great but the iPad is more like holding a sheet of electronic paper. An A4 page is pretty close to 4:3 so I don't see much reason to change it.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/08/15/alleged-ipad-mini-screen-points-to-7-85-inch-display/
post #376 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't think they'll go 16:9. 16:10 at the widest but I think 4:3 works well on the iPad. The iPhone is designed for one handed operation so 16:9 works great but the iPad is more like holding a sheet of electronic paper. An A4 page is pretty close to 4:3 so I don't see much reason to change it.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/08/15/alleged-ipad-mini-screen-points-to-7-85-inch-display/

"Update: It appears this is probably a case of mistaken identity (or intercontinental confusion)—the display bears almost the exact same structure as the Kindle Fire's, as seen here."

http://gizmodo.com/5935129/is-this-the-ipad-minis-tiny-new-screen

I don't think even a smaller one would have a different aspect beyond 3:2 (old iPhone). A4 paper is halfway between 4:3 and 3:2 and makes the most sense for a tablet. While 16:10 isn't bad, it doesn't look very good in portrait.
post #377 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

"Update: It appears this is probably a case of mistaken identity (or intercontinental confusion)—the display bears almost the exact same structure as the Kindle Fire's, as seen here."
http://gizmodo.com/5935129/is-this-the-ipad-minis-tiny-new-screen
I don't think even a smaller one would have a different aspect beyond 3:2 (old iPhone). A4 paper is halfway between 4:3 and 3:2 and makes the most sense for a tablet. While 16:10 isn't bad, it doesn't look very good in portrait.

http://www.iphonelife.com/blog/28861/new-photos-show-size-comparisons-cases-new-ipad-mini-and-new-iphone-5
post #378 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

They aren't exactly lying (about their "commissions"), but they aren't being entirely honest either. It may not change their "commission" but it's pretty well known that most of the Android manufacturers are paying spiffs. It's also well known that Verizon (and other carriers) are pushing their sales staff very hard to push Android phones onto customers because they get more control and it costs them less.

There's very little loyalty in business, whomever pays the most gets the most, loyalty that is. Can't fault them on that. Someone working on commission will always sell whatever makes them the most money not what's best for the customer.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #379 of 384

Those are mockups based on this:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47430/iphone-5-ipad-mini-cases-comparison

There's no screen yet. I'm not sure if you'd be able to hold it in one hand like a phone either given that it's wider than 2 iPhones. 16:9 certainly makes it easier to do that but I think you're still going to need a larger side bezel. If they did change the aspect, I'd say it would be to 3:2 and not 16:9. I'd be very surprised to see a 16:9 tablet from Apple.

The Galaxy Tab is 16:9 but I don't think that looks very good in portrait:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbsmHMAhrQ
post #380 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Those are mockups based on this:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47430/iphone-5-ipad-mini-cases-comparison
There's no screen yet. I'm not sure if you'd be able to hold it in one hand like a phone either given that it's wider than 2 iPhones. 16:9 certainly makes it easier to do that but I think you're still going to need a larger side bezel. If they did change the aspect, I'd say it would be to 3:2 and not 16:9. I'd be very surprised to see a 16:9 tablet from Apple.
The Galaxy Tab is 16:9 but I don't think that looks very good in portrait:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbsmHMAhrQ

I get your point, but 16:9 fits in with the company's long-term plans than the other formats. If you have 16:9 throughout your product offerings, apps could be designed for use in that format and never have to be redesigned again and again. Even the new iPod Nano has a 16:9 screen! (Yes, I will bet that the long term plan includes opening up the iPad Mini for developers to offer apps for it through the app store).

Beyond the iPad Mini and the next iPad, Apple TV will eventually open up to developers too (my prediction) and apps will be available through a new Apple TV app store. Since the Apple TV connects to HDTV sets, Apple TV apps, naturally, are formatted for 16:9. Those same apps will also be available for Apple's rumored television product, which, too, should have a 16:9 aspect ratio.

See, the future, if I'm right, starts with the iPod Nano, then the iPhone/iPod Touch, then the iPad Mini, then the iPad, then the real Apple TV, with sizes all larger than the iPad, and all having a 16:9 aspect ratio, enabling seemless cross-Apple iDevice platform app operability.
post #381 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlt 
I get your point, but 16:9 fits in with the company's long-term plans than the other formats. If you have 16:9 throughout your product offerings, apps could be designed for use in that format and never have to be redesigned again and again.

As long as they are compatible, it should be fine. An iPhone/iPod app will pixel double to the iPad. It can't do this any more as that would require 2272 resolution but interestingly, 2272 divided by the current smallest side 1536 = 1.48. This is pretty much 3:2.

If they move the iPad to ~3:2, iPhone/iPod apps in 16:9 will pixel double with 128 pixels either side and original iPad apps will work with 112 pixels top and bottom.

A 16:9 aspect doen't look right in portrait at such a big size. Tilt your head to the side while looking at your monitor and imagine holding it in portrait. You could get used to it like with the Galaxy Tab but it squashes up the keyboard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M1bkovoLXw4#t=488s
post #382 of 384
shidell - The difference is that Apple didn't sacrifice battery life to do it. They also have a more polished OS. Anyone who has owned both phones will tell you that.
post #383 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


And If they made it wider you'd be able to fit 5 apps across instead of 4. Whoope!

iphone 5s?! :-P

post #384 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's partly a feature of iOS 6, but iOS 6 is a major part of the upgrade! People are also saying; ugh, the camera is the same. But it's not. It's got the same Rez, but better low light ability, and lower noise, with higher dynamic range, along with a new lens.

 

Dpreview has posted an initial review of the camera in the iPhone 5, and as I suspected the improvements are mainly in the software - better (as in, adaptive) noise reduction and sharpening, and an extension of the ISO range to a max of ISO 3200 (from ISO 1000 in the 4s). What's interesting is that at higher ISO's (above ISO 1000) it appears the iPhone 5 is using pixel binning to reduce noise, however the tradeoff of doing so is a loss of resolution.

 

Have a look at their initial review, in particular the section on low-light:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6867454450/quick-review-apple-iphone-5-camera/2

 

While you're at it, here's their review of the outstanding camera in the Nokia 808 Pureview:

 

http://connect.dpreview.com/post/4388245494/nokia-808-pureview-review

 

That said, I'm loving my new iPhone 5.

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