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Apple's Phil Schiller explains lack of NFC and inductive charging in iPhone 5

post #1 of 100
Thread Starter 
In an interview directly following Apple's unveiling of the iPhone 5, Senior Vice President of Worldwide Marketing Phil Schiller detailed why the company chose not to include NFC and wireless charging capabilities in the new handset, and goes over the significance of the new Lightning port.

Before the iPhone 5 debuted, there were back and forth reports (1, 2) regarding whether the new handset would implement near-field communication, the radio technology some companies use to facilitate eWallet transactions. Some speculated that Apple would incorporate NFC tech into its upcoming Passbook app, though the rumors were quashed at Wednesday's event.

Schiller
Apple SVP Phil Schiller


Schiller told All Things D that the decision not to include NFC actually stemmed from Passbook, which he said "does the kinds of things customer need today." The app, which organizes digital tickets, coupons and more, will roll out with iOS 6 on Sept. 19.

On the inductive charging front, Schiller pointed out the perceived convenience of such systems are questionable given they too need to be plugged into an outlet. The USB interface, however, can be plugged into walls, computers and airplanes.

?Having to create another device you have to plug into the wall is actually, for most situations, more complicated,? Schiller said.

Extending the discussion of dock connectors, Schiller explained that the Lightning port was a necessity in launching the new iPhone 5 and iPods. He said it wasn't possible to build such thin products without changing the connector from the 30-pin design first introduced in 2003.

?This is the new connector for many years to come,? Schiller said.
post #2 of 100

I told you there would be no NFC!

 

 


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post #3 of 100
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
"This is the new connector for many years to come," Schiller said.

 

Fast forward to September 2013 on AI… 

 

"WHY IS IT STILL THE LIGHTNING PORT?! THIS IS SO STALE. SAME PHONE AS LAST YEAR."

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post #4 of 100
The real issue with NFC is that there is no one standardized form yet. Makes including it a total pain in the ass.
post #5 of 100

NFC is the next e-SATA.

post #6 of 100

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't inductive charging either slower or more power "leaky" than the classic cable? And isn't it only worth it if you have a large induction pad that could potentially charge multiple mobile devices set on it at one time (so only one power pad plugged into the wall compared with two or more devices).

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post #7 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In an interview directly following Apple's unveiling of the iPhone 5, Senior Vice President of Worldwide Marketing Phil Schiller ... goes over the significance of the new Lightning port.

The main significance of the new port is that you an no longer connect your iPhone to a TV set, and there is no longer line-level audio for high-quality connection to a stereo.
post #8 of 100
great phone!
post #9 of 100
S let me get this straight--the iPhone does not have NFC because Apple says we don't need it. Personally, I don't care about NFC. The explanation, at least as it was reported here, was circular.

Induction charging, on the other hand, is really convenient.
post #10 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't inductive charging either slower or more power "leaky" than the classic cable? And isn't it only worth it if you have a large induction pad that could potentially charge multiple mobile devices set on it at one time (so only one power pad plugged into the wall compared with two or more devices).

 



Your right, inductive charging is VERY slow, and draws more power than it can transfer to the device. A classic one is both electric toothbrushes, they are inductive. They take about 24 hours to fully charge, and they consume more power than they transfer to the battery. Having one big pad, that you could put a phone, iDevice on would be good (for overnight charging).

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post #11 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't inductive charging either slower or more power "leaky" than the classic cable? And isn't it only worth it if you have a large induction pad that could potentially charge multiple mobile devices set on it at one time (so only one power pad plugged into the wall compared with two or more devices).

May have alrdy been said. But you are right.
I know it's slower and as an engineerig student, I know that everytime energy changes form, you lose energy.
I would bet it takes a least 3 times the power to charge a phone wirelessly.


I prayed apple would not include that cause u have to buy a 100 dollar charging pad and it's just a waste.
The new connector that connects either way is much better
post #12 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Fast forward to September 2013 on AI… 

 

"WHY IS IT STILL THE LIGHTNING PORT?! THIS IS SO STALE. SAME PHONE AS LAST YEAR."

Honestly the iPhone 5 is the last iPhone Apple will ever release.  December 21st is the end of all things as we know it in this planet.  So buy one and enjoy it without NFC because it wont matter.  LOL.

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post #13 of 100

It’s not clear that NFC is the solution to any current problem, Schiller said. "Passbook does the kinds of things customers need today."

As for wireless charging, Schiller notes that the wireless charging systems still have to be plugged into the wall, so it’s not clear how much convenience they add. The widely-adopted USB cord, meanwhile, can charge in wall outlets, computers and even on airplanes, he said.

"Having to create another device you have to plug into the wall is actually, for most situations, more complicated," Schiller said.

 

 

 

Yep.

post #14 of 100

I'm sure that in 10 years time phones would have any ports on them - everything will be done wirelessly. Port and connectors are easily damaged and a good route for moisture to get into the device. We're not at this point yet though.

 

Does anyone know if the new iDevices are USB 3.0 compatible or not? 

post #15 of 100
I'm outraged. Where's my kitchen sink?

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post #16 of 100
Re: Inductive charging

I don't see how another gadget plugged into the wall that charges much slower can be "convenient". If there is an advantage that I'm ignorant about, maybe I would change my mind.
post #17 of 100
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post
December 21st is the end of all things as we know it in this planet.

 

"I WISH YELLOWSTONE WOULD HAVE ERUPTED MORE VIOLENTLY."

 

"IS THAT IT? ONLY FOUR BILLION DEAD?"

 

"PSHH, THE POLES SHIFTED MORE THAN THAT LAST YEAR."

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post #18 of 100
While I'm positive on inductive charging, I realized that it's not that convenient afterall. I often use my iPhone while it's recharging. So it's really a hassle to use while it's charging. Plus I still have to keep extra cables
Cheers !
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post #19 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"I WISH YELLOWSTONE WOULD HAVE ERUPTED MORE VIOLENTLY."

 

"IS THAT IT? ONLY FOUR BILLION DEAD?"

 

"PSHH, THE POLES SHIFTED MORE THAN THAT LAST YEAR."

Violently is ok...but I'd really rather the eruptions went higher into the sky. 4.3 - 4.5 miles seems reasonable rather than the measly 3.5 we've had to deal with for a while now. 

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post #20 of 100
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Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

S let me get this straight--the iPhone does not have NFC because Apple says we don't need it. Personally, I don't care about NFC. The explanation, at least as it was reported here, was circular.
Induction charging, on the other hand, is really convenient.

 

Inductive charging is a solution in search of a problem.  Yes, in theory it's nice to just drop your device on a charge-pad and walk away.  But something still needs to be plugged into a wall.  What if I want to charge my phone at home and at the office?  Buy two pads?  Oh wait, I'm not near a wall outlet to plug my pad in.  Out of luck.  Plus it takes a huge amount of time to charge a device this way.  

Regular cables though can be plugged into an outlet, a computer, another adapter, and so forth.

I just don't get the fixation on this.

post #21 of 100
The other bad thing with inductive charing is that you need a magnetic structure in the iPhone to couple that energy. A coil or whatever just adds bulk.
post #22 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges View Post

I told you there would be no NFC!


Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids?  In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it?  I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.

Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights".  Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.

post #23 of 100

I use two Powermat inductive charging cases and chargers (ip4 & ip4S).  They are NOT slower than USB when charging.  The Powermat can charge from below to 20% remaining to full charge in less than an hour and while there small inefficiencies as compared to corded charging, the Powermat is not your typical inductive charger as it uses high frequency inductive coupling and automatic shutoff when the battery is fully charged.  As the iPhone battery slowly discharges the charger will wake up and top off the battery.  I find the ease of dropping the iphone into the charging cradle far outweighs any disadvantages.  The Powermat technology is now endorsed by 125 companies that have formed a new consortium.  GM has bought into the technology as well and will be offering inductive charging areas in many GM cars staring with the new 2013 models now hitting the showrooms.  This same consortium is building out charging areas in airports around the US.  Of course this is all still in its infancy, but as a user for over 2 years, I can say that it works, works well and is super convenient.

post #24 of 100
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post
Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids?

 

I care about it in the sense that it has the potential to completely redefine the very concept of 'purchasing' if done correctly.

 

I'd rather Apple not do it at all until they CAN do it correctly.

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post #25 of 100
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Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

May have alrdy been said. But you are right.
I know it's slower and as an engineerig student, I know that everytime energy changes form, you lose energy.
I would bet it takes a least 3 times the power to charge a phone wirelessly.

Close, but not quite. The best consumer electronics devices with inductive charging are about 50-60% efficient.

I did a calculation when this came up a few months ago. If all iPhones went to inductive charging, we would require at least one more GW scale power plant just to make up for the losses. Given the cost of doing so and the extra pollution, there's absolutely no justification for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

Re: Inductive charging
I don't see how another gadget plugged into the wall that charges much slower can be "convenient". If there is an advantage that I'm ignorant about, maybe I would change my mind.

Of course there's an advantage - buzzword compliance. For most of the geeks asking for this, they won't be happy until they can carry around a mobile phone that has a 10" screen and 8,000 other features no one else will use.

As for the rest, I don't see the convenience factor as being significant. It takes perhaps half a second to plug my iPhone in - and even less if I use an iPhone charging dock. It takes me many times that amountin order to get my Wii controllers aligned with the inductive charging station.

Plus, of course, it's simply added bulk - you need to add a receiver and extra circuitry on the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman619 View Post

While I'm positive on inductive charging, I realized that it's not that convenient afterall. I often use my iPhone while it's recharging. So it's really a hassle to use while it's charging. Plus I still have to keep extra cables

There's that, too.
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post #26 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I care about it in the sense that it has the potential to completely redefine the very concept of 'purchasing' if done correctly.

 

I'd rather Apple not do it at all until they CAN do it correctly.

Right, but the problem is, when Apple does do it and the technology is much more mainstream...Apple will probably be 2-3 years behind everyone else. However, despite being 2-3 years behind, it will be determined that Apple invented NFC along with the rounded rectangle. At that point, NFC will no longer be cool to Android fanatics who now use hockey puck shaped phones to avoid the rounded rectangle trade dress issue. Apple never made one of...oh...um...back to the drawing board...

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post #27 of 100
Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post
Right, but the problem is, when Apple does do it and the technology is much more mainstream...Apple will probably be 2-3 years behind everyone else.

 

You don't understand: the technology won't exist in any meaningful capacity until Apple does it right. At least in this scenario. I use "Apple" even though I don't believe in them anymore because there's no one else in the industry shown to be capable of doing it right.

 

All previous attempts at this will be considered useless once the proper implementation is set forth.

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post #28 of 100
There's no NFC because two reasons:
1. Apple was not able to source a baseband part with integrated NFC as the time of the design. Broadcom now offers one, but it's very new.
2. Whatever Apple is working on with NFC almost certainly includes Authentec biometrics for PIN. Obviously, it's not ready.

People who don't realize why NFC is great just don't understand it. It's hard to understand why NFC is so important, especially if you are living in America and have no idea what a smartcard is.

But, NFC is hugely important. Do you like what's happening it the credit card processing space? Banks are charging annual fees to deal with fraud, and vendors are more commonly loading the 3% transaction fee to the customer (you). If you spend $20K a year on your card, you will have donated $600 to FirstData. Incidentally, that's more than enough to by a second Android Phone with NFC.
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post #29 of 100
NFC is obviously not ready for Apple yet but it is inevitable it will come as a form of being able to use your iPhone to pay for products, wifi location or GPS will not be accurate enough, I guess it's a case of waiting and another reason to upgrade next year or quite possibly the year after.
post #30 of 100
I haven't seen a good NFC solution yet, other than curiosities. It may come into its own, but some things probably need to be ready before that happens. The same thing can probably be said for wireless charging.

Are there any USB compatible wireless charging mats out there yet?
post #31 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

There's no NFC because two reasons:
1. Apple was not able to source a baseband part with integrated NFC as the time of the design. Broadcom now offers one, but it's very new.
2. Whatever Apple is working on with NFC almost certainly includes Authentec biometrics for PIN. Obviously, it's not ready.
People who don't realize why NFC is great just don't understand it. It's hard to understand why NFC is so important, especially if you are living in America and have no idea what a smartcard is.
But, NFC is hugely important. Do you like what's happening it the credit card processing space? Banks are charging annual fees to deal with fraud, and vendors are more commonly loading the 3% transaction fee to the customer (you). If you spend $20K a year on your card, you will have donated $600 to FirstData. Incidentally, that's more than enough to by a second Android Phone with NFC.


NFC is stupid.  Really stupid.

 

In America, banks eat fraud.  As I understand it, in smartcard countries card users have to pay for fraud, because the banks just claim "it must have been you" and won't cover it.

 

NFC will be a great way to siphon money out of your account from a distance, and you'll likely have no recourse.

post #32 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I care about it in the sense that it has the potential to completely redefine the very concept of 'purchasing' if done correctly.

 

I'd rather Apple not do it at all until they CAN do it correctly.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

There's no NFC because two reasons:
1. Apple was not able to source a baseband part with integrated NFC as the time of the design. Broadcom now offers one, but it's very new.
2. Whatever Apple is working on with NFC almost certainly includes Authentec biometrics for PIN. Obviously, it's not ready.
People who don't realize why NFC is great just don't understand it. It's hard to understand why NFC is so important, especially if you are living in America and have no idea what a smartcard is.
But, NFC is hugely important. Do you like what's happening it the credit card processing space? Banks are charging annual fees to deal with fraud, and vendors are more commonly loading the 3% transaction fee to the customer (you). If you spend $20K a year on your card, you will have donated $600 to FirstData. Incidentally, that's more than enough to by a second Android Phone with NFC.

 

I don't understand. What does NFC do that is so cool? How will it redefine purchasing?

 

Do I still have to go to a designated payment point (cashier) to purchase items? Yep. Do I still have to get something out of my pocket to pay for said items? Yep. Is there still some sort of authentication process to determine the payment is coming from a legitimate purchaser? Yep.

 

Oh look, it changes everything while changing nothing. So I won't have to carry a slim piece of plastic in my pocket anymore, I still have to carry an ID among various other things necessitating a wallet.

 

And if FirstData or another entity is verifying purchases aren't fraudulent with a plastic card, I'm sure there'll be the same or other entities verifying NFC purchases. And the purchaser will still pay for that verification in the same way.

 

Like I said, it changes everything without solving any problems!

 

Please tell me I'm wrong. What am I missing? What is so amazing about NFC or non-contact purchasing?

 

In my opinion, the Apple Store has already solved this in its own way. Just buy items through a localized website, walk out with items in hand and receipt on screen. Your card number and data can be pre-programed in. Done.

post #33 of 100
Originally Posted by d4rkriver View Post
I don't understand. What does NFC do that is so cool? How will it redefine purchasing?

 

Do I still have to go to a designated payment point (cashier) to purchase items? Yep. Do I still have to get something out of my pocket to pay for said items? Yep. Is there still some sort of authentication process to determine the payment is coming from a legitimate purchaser? Yep.

 

Oh look, it changes everything while changing nothing. So I won't have to carry a slim piece of plastic in my pocket anymore, I still have to carry an ID among various other things necessitating a wallet.

 

Fine. Wait six decades for a chip to be embedded in your hand whereby you can't buy anything without having it.

 

Frick's sake. Of course you still have to carry something.

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post #34 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Who the heck cares about NFC besides tech-heads and fandroids?  In all my travels, I have yet to come across anything that would use it?  I see no merchants, stores, vending machines, etc. that has it.

Oh wait, it's only a huge deal to those that simply want it for the sake of having it and having "bragging rights".  Jeez.. when there's stuff out there that uses it, then Apple will look into it.

Assuming you live in San Francisco (sflocal?), NFC is in every parking meter.  It's also in most shops, you just haven't noticed because it is integrated into the payment terminals.  Point of sale companies have been successful recently with NFC terminals, because vendors WANT IT.  They currently are forced to eat 3% in credit card transaction fees.  That's a lot of money.  Using Paypal (or whoever) as an intermediary still requires a transaction fee.  Vendors are simply not going to go out of their way to support forms of payment that require transaction fees when NFC, which does not, is available and moving along nicely.

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post #35 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't inductive charging either slower or more power "leaky" than the classic cable? And isn't it only worth it if you have a large induction pad that could potentially charge multiple mobile devices set on it at one time (so only one power pad plugged into the wall compared with two or more devices).

 

Inductive charging is extremely wasteful.  No company legitimately concerned about the environment would embrace it as a core product feature.

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post #36 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You don't understand: the technology won't exist in any meaningful capacity until Apple does it right. At least in this scenario. I use "Apple" even though I don't believe in them anymore because there's no one else in the industry shown to be capable of doing it right.

 

All previous attempts at this will be considered useless once the proper implementation is set forth.

NFC was popular in Japan for a number of years before the name was invented. One of the major faults noted in the iPhone prior to its arrival there was that it lacked such a capability.

 

Cheers

post #37 of 100
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post
NFC was popular in Japan for a number of years before the name was invented. One of the major faults noted in the iPhone prior to its arrival there was that it lacked such a capability.

 

Cheers

 

That's not the revolution. That's a digital version of an analog setup.

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post #38 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rkriver View Post

 

 

I don't understand. What does NFC do that is so cool? How will it redefine purchasing?

NFC hasn't redefined purchasing.  It is a transparent, contactless interface for smartcards.  Smartcards have been successful in most parts of the world for over a decade.  I won't go in to the reasons why they didn't catch-on in USA, but it is because of dirty politics.

 

Anyway, you already do have a smartcard that you don't know about: your SIM card.

 

Vendors like it because they don't have to deal with transaction fees that go to middlemen.  Vendors are buying NFC payment terminals in large quantities already.  You might not notice this except when gasoline prices end up being sold at 3% less for NFC users.  Furthermore, it's a billion times more secure than magstripe is.  Magstripe, frankly, is a liability.

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post #39 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabuga View Post

 



Your right, inductive charging is VERY slow, and draws more power than it can transfer to the device. A classic one is both electric toothbrushes, they are inductive. They take about 24 hours to fully charge, and they consume more power than they transfer to the battery. Having one big pad, that you could put a phone, iDevice on would be good (for overnight charging).

 

I wonder why Greenpeace has not said anything about companies using this wasteful technology.

 

If everything we charged was switched to it, we'd have to dig up a lot more coal.

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post #40 of 100
Inductive charging would be pretty nice, especially since everything else is already wireless anyway, it would add to the coolness factor which is pretty relevant when it comes to Apple hardware. Cables could still be used, all Apple would have to do would be to leave two metal contacts somewhere on the outer shell of the phone that a case / bumper / whatever could connect to and the problem with USB charging would go away. They could even use more of these contacts to implement a decent dock with all kinds of AV output without requiring an actual port.
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