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Apple's new A6 iPhone 5 appears to be first ARM Cortex A15 phone - Page 2

post #41 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by daironhorse View Post

the a6 cant be a custom chip because qualcomm is the only manufacturers to have true customization of the architecture not just adding on like samsung and all the other companies do that is why the snapdragon chip is preferred for the lte devices this year

 

This is completely incorrect. Apple has such a licence and they were the first to receive one. 

post #42 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

Actually, no, the article doesn't plainly state that. The article says Apple is first to market with the ARM Cortex A15 cores. If it meant first smartphone to market, they should've said that. Also, the article muddies the waters by highlighting what the iPad SoCs are as well, so the article doesn't strictly stick to smartphone CPUs.

 

Also, while hoping the use of newer tech is true, the article points to no evidence of Apple actually using the newer core architecture. It just points to an article by Anantech which is only speculating because of what Apple vaguely said about performance vs previous A5 chips.

 

If this turns out not to be true, it'll be more dung in the face from non-Apple users that have a need to feel superior.

That's funny. You ARE the one who's being here.

post #43 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

LOLOLOL.... even the s3 was a9 based. Learn how to use google.

 

So present your evidence.

post #44 of 102
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Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

That's funny. You ARE the one who's being here.

What did I say that gave an air of superiority about Apple products over non-Apple products? And what does posting on this forum have to do with the same?

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post #45 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

After searching the other chips mentioned in the article being made by other companies, it seems you are right that they are still in the sampling/design process to put out those chips. But why didn't the article STATE that! Why did I have to search somewhere else because the article was vague and seemed contradictory?

The article was very very clear that the iPhone 5 is the first to SHIP a product in a smartphone.
post #46 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

 

So present your evidence.

After further research... The scorpion core in the s3 is not an official cortex-a9 processor because of the reasons stated earlier with qualcomm modifying the cores. It should be said that it is an Cortex-a9 CLASS core. 

 

I still think AI is being a little misleading. Yes, if the A6 has a cortex-a15 core then it will be the first. However, taking qualcomm out of the equation because they make there own cores doesnt seem to be an honest comparison. The qualcomm Krait core (the core in the s4 SoC) is equivalent to an a15 and its been shipping since june. AI needs to add that to the article.

 

 

Disclaimer... I live in san diego and have owned qualcomm stock for many years. I also go to quite a few charger games at qualcomm stadium (loved it when they renamed it snapdragon stadium for a few months).


Edited by WESALLEN - 9/12/12 at 8:24pm
post #47 of 102

Some people in this thread need to do some basic reading before they post stupidity.

Apple will indeed be the fist to launch an officially licensed Core A15. However...Krait/Snapdragon S4 has technically beaten them to the punch. While Qualcomm doesn't license the Core architecture, Krait *does* support the A15 instruction sets and memory addressing. 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4940/qualcomm-new-snapdragon-s4-msm8960-krait-architecture

 

which would nullify: 

 

Quote:
its new A6 processor is reportedly using next generation ARM Cortex A15 cores, making it the first to market with the technology.

This is why Apple didn't make the claim, a few blogs tried to. The S4 is also smaller at 28nm instead of 32 for the A6. 

 

At the end of the day does it matter who's first? 3rd? last? It's the EXPERIENCE that counts.

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post #48 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Ummm no.... check the evo lte. Its a dual core with a a15 based chip. Qualcomm took a A15 nd put LTE into the chip and ripped out some of the un-needed stuff. Its a custom A15 chip which is what the A6 will likely be. And yes I purchased an EVO lte in June of this year. Google "qualcomm Krait review".

Actually, Qualcomm has a hybrid chip in the S4 Krait design that is close to the A15 but not quite an A15. Think of it as a 4/5 of an A15 (pipeline depth/design and such are far better on the A15 than Krait) . So the article is correct and you are not.

The Krait design, however, is very very good and much better than the A9 design on single thread execution.
post #49 of 102

So here is the Samsung Galaxy S3 processor info directly from Wikipedia.

 

The S III comes in two distinct variations that differ primarily in the internal hardware. The international S III version has Samsung's Exynos 4 Quad system on a chip (SoC) containing a 1.4 GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 central processing unit (CPU) and an ARM Mali-400 MPgraphics processing unit (GPU).[61] According to Samsung, the Exynos 4 Quad doubles the performance of the Exynos 4 Dual used on the S II, while using 20 percent less power.

 

I know that Apple has an A6 Quad core processor but I am assuming that the Quad core was dropped because of the power consumption.  The galaxy S3 has way less battery capability than the iPhone 5 or even the 4s does.  So apple basically made a better phone with power and usability.

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post #50 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


The article was very very clear that the iPhone 5 is the first to SHIP a product in a smartphone.

No, the article isn't really clear about anything! It speculates the iPhone 5 is the first product(?) or smartphone(?) to ship with an A15-based core architecture, however it only points to a different article that speculates the same thing as proof. Next, the article later says that Samsung, TI, etc. are making A15-based chips too. It does NOT say those companies have only announced those products with mass production scheduled for a later date.

 

This article is all over the place.

 

I'm not disputing that if iPhone 5's A6 CPU is A15-based, it would be the first. It seems like it would be based on the scant research I googled. I AM disputing the way this article presents its information. Based on the article, it isn't clear if iPhone is the first product, or merely the first smartphone with A15 cores. Based on the article, it isn't clear that Samsung and others are only in the announcement/design phase of producing their own chips. Based on the article, Samsung and other companies are already making their own chips (which seems not to be true from other sources), invalidating the article's entire premise.

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post #51 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rkriver View Post

If it's true Apple is using Cortex A15 cores, how are they first when Samsung, TI, and Nvidia are all using them too? This article contradicts itself...

None of them are in phones yet. Those are all Chip Makers.
post #52 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

No, the article isn't really clear about anything! It speculates the iPhone 5 is the first product(?) or smartphone(?) to ship with an A15-based core architecture, however it only points to a different article that speculates the same thing as proof. Next, the article later says that Samsung, TI, etc. are making A15-based chips too. It does NOT say those companies have only announced those products with mass production scheduled for a later date.

This article is all over the place.

I'm not disputing that if iPhone 5's A6 CPU is A15-based, it would be the first. It seems like it would be based on the scant research I googled. I AM disputing the way this article presents its information. Based on the article, it isn't clear if iPhone is the first product, or merely the first smartphone with A15 cores. Based on the article, it isn't clear that Samsung and others are only in the announcement/design phase of producing their own chips. Based on the article, Samsung and other companies are already making their own chips (which seems not to be true from other sources), invalidating the article's entire premise.

The only speculation is the chip being A15 based. If it is, it is the first.. It seems pretty clear, maybe a little awkward but difficult to misread.
post #53 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Some people in this thread need to do some basic reading before they post stupidity.
Apple will indeed be the fist to launch an officially licensed Core A15. However...Krait/Snapdragon S4 has technically beaten them to the punch. While Qualcomm doesn't license the Core architecture, Krait *does* support the A15 instruction sets and memory addressing. 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4940/qualcomm-new-snapdragon-s4-msm8960-krait-architecture

which would nullify: 

This is why Apple didn't make the claim, a few blogs tried to. The S4 is also smaller at 28nm instead of 32 for the A6. 

At the end of the day does it matter who's first? 3rd? last? It's the EXPERIENCE that counts.

Is the Krait even relevant to this discussion? What phone is it in? I can find several that are coming but none that will ship before next Friday... The article only claims it will be the first A15 core shipping in a phone. Which part of that do you dispute?
post #54 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


The only speculation is the chip being A15 based. If it is, it is the first.. It seems pretty clear, maybe a little awkward but difficult to misread.

Agreed, but it still seems dishonest to completely exclude the Krait. I guess thats why is appleinsider.com and not smartphoneinsider.com

post #55 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

No, the article isn't really clear about anything! It speculates the iPhone 5 is the first product(?) or smartphone(?) to ship with an A15-based core architecture, however it only points to a different article that speculates the same thing as proof. Next, the article later says that Samsung, TI, etc. are making A15-based chips too. It does NOT say those companies have only announced those products with mass production scheduled for a later date.

 

This article is all over the place.

 

I'm not disputing that if iPhone 5's A6 CPU is A15-based, it would be the first. It seems like it would be based on the scant research I googled. I AM disputing the way this article presents its information. Based on the article, it isn't clear if iPhone is the first product, or merely the first smartphone with A15 cores. Based on the article, it isn't clear that Samsung and others are only in the announcement/design phase of producing their own chips. Based on the article, Samsung and other companies are already making their own chips (which seems not to be true from other sources), invalidating the article's entire premise.

 

Why are you trying to make it more difficult than it is.

 

If you know of another product thats using A15cores right now, then post a link to it here.  If not.. then what the hell are you trying to prove?

post #56 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


Is the Krait even relevant to this discussion? What phone is it in? I can find several that are coming but none that will ship before next Friday... The article only claims it will be the first A15 core shipping in a phone. Which part of that do you dispute?

Umm.. the HTC one x has the krait core for all phones sold in the USA since June of this year, including the EVO LTE (my current phone).

post #57 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

So present your evidence.

What evidence. The S3 is A9 based. It's a fact. Easy to find for anyone reading this forum. Why should he provide evidence?
post #58 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Umm.. the HTC one x has the krait core for all phones sold in the USA since June of this year. 

Fair enough. Then you just have to get into the hairsplitting in the article. The Krait is not an A15 core. Does it matter? No, not really. The article is still correct, but who really cares.
post #59 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Samsung has the exact chip listed on its website. I wouldnt exactly call it beating samsung since samsung did make it. They just gave them priority over its own phones.

1) Being contracted to manufacture something is not the same as designing it. If I design a car and have someone build a part for it to my specifications it's not their car.

2) Where is it listed as being the exact same chip?

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post #60 of 102

Samsung and TI are only sampling A15 chips and both state availability late 2012 or early 2013. Qualcomm's S4 Krait is different enough from an A15 to not be counted. Let's face it - the only reason people are trying to sneak the S4 chip in is so they can somehow take away Apple's thunder at being first to market with an A15.

 

The fact that Apple is releasing a new iPhone (and has likely already produced millions for next weeks launch), shows they are way ahead of Samsung or TI and must have been sampling and testing way back at the beginning of the year.

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post #61 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Agreed, but it still seems dishonest to completely exclude the Krait. I guess thats why is appleinsider.com and not smartphoneinsider.com

I think it is a bit shady. Knowing about the HTC One now, I would say the article is technically correct but a bit misleading.
post #62 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Samsung and TI are only sampling A15 chips and both state availability late 2012 or early 2013. Qualcomm's S4 Krait is different enough from an A15 to not be counted. Let's face it - the only reason people are trying to sneak the S4 chip in is so they can somehow take away Apple's thunder at being first to market with an A15.

The fact that Apple is releasing a new iPhone (and has likely already produced millions for next weeks launch), shows they are way ahead of Samsung or TI and must have been sampling and testing way back at the beginning of the year.

I am not trying to take anything away, but it probably deserved a mention. I am not sure the devices that have the S4 are really relative to the overall smartphone market. They are there and pretty similar. AI can slip on the technicality 1smile.gif
post #63 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Samsung and TI are only sampling A15 chips and both state availability late 2012 or early 2013. Qualcomm's S4 Krait is different enough from an A15 to not be counted. Let's face it - the only reason people are trying to sneak the S4 chip in is so they can somehow take away Apple's thunder at being first to market with an A15.

 

The fact that Apple is releasing a new iPhone (and has likely already produced millions for next weeks launch), shows they are way ahead of Samsung or TI and must have been sampling and testing way back at the beginning of the year.

Yes, apple is way ahead of TI or Sammy. But when it comes to SoC ( systems on chips) qualcomm seems to be a little ahead of Apple. The Krait is an a15 class chip and its been out for 3 months.

post #64 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Agreed, but it still seems dishonest to completely exclude the Krait. I guess thats why is appleinsider.com and not smartphoneinsider.com

I think it's more likely that it was overlooked since it's still a Cortex-A9-like base with some Cortex-A15-like features.

Personally, if others are just now sampling Cortex-A15 for mass productions in their own plants I don't see how Apple could be using Cortex-A15-like chips in their products. I think this A6 is most likely a Krait-like chip that is built on a 32nm process which allows it to be clocked higher and have some Cortex-A15-like features that also help performance.

Note that I keep writing "-like" since Apple's A-chips are not Cortex anything since they use ARM reference designs that are more stripped than what ARM calls Cortex. It's like buying a corvette chassis and drivetrain and then building your own car around it. You can say it's Corvette under the hood for simplicity sake but if you get technical it's not a Corvette.

I also think Apple would have noted the significance of this ASIC coming to market and I don't recall they did that for that component.

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post #65 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

 

Why are you trying to make it more difficult than it is.

 

If you know of another product thats using A15cores right now, then post a link to it here.  If not.. then what the hell are you trying to prove?

 

I'm not trying to make it more difficult. As I've tried to say many times now, the article is poorly written and seemed to contradict itself. Read the article:

 

 

 

Quote:

While Apple hasn't revealed much technical detail of the specifications behind iPhone 5 and its components, its new A6 processor is reportedly using next generation ARM Cortex A15 cores, making it the first to market with the technology.


According to a report by Anand Lal Shimpi of Anandtech, the performance gains Apple reported for the new A6 chip and other factors means that "it looks like Apple has integrated two ARM Cortex A15 cores on Samsung's 32nm LP HK+MG process."...

 

... Samsung's Exynos 5 Dual pairs two ARM Cortex A15 cores with two ARM Mali GPU cores, while Apple's A6 likely uses the same quad core SGX543MP4 GPUs as the new iPad's A5X...

 

... Samsung's Exynos 5, TI's OMAP 5 series and Nvidia's Tegra 4 also use ARM Cortex-A15 cores. Broadcom and LG have also announced plans to license ARM's Cortex A15 cores. Qualcomm's S4 Snapdragon also implements a "Krait" architecture similar to the Cortex-A15.

First the article says iPhone 5 is first to market with A15. Then it says Samsung's Exynos 5 uses A15 similar to Apple's A6, giving the impression that Samsung is making chips similar to Apple's first to market before Apple has even released their phone. Finally it says Samsung, TI, and Nvidia use A15, and Broadcom and LG plan to license A15 later. This infers 3 companies are currently producing chips (presumably for unnamed products, why else produce them) with two more companies on the way.

 

So one could easily come to the conclusion that Samsung, TI, and Nvidia are already making A15 chips for shipping products. If the article had simply stated that all those others chips were announced but unreleased, it wouldn't seem like the article was contradicting itself. That's all I'm trying to say! 

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post #66 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Umm.. the HTC one x has the krait core for all phones sold in the USA since June of this year, including the EVO LTE (my current phone).

Still waiting for you to provide evidence to back your claim.

I provided a link showing that the EVO LTE is only using an A8.

Of course, with Android phones, it's hard to tell because they so frequently use the same name for unrelated phones, but it IS clear that you've never provided a shred of evidence that anyone is already shipping an A15 phone. So where's the evidence?
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post #67 of 102

http://www.anandtech.com/tag/krait

 

Read it.... The Htc one series use the S4 with a Krait core. Then read the previous posts. The krait is a a15-class core or a15-like core. 

 

AI should not have grouped the Krait into the same line as the upcoming sammy and TI A15 core SoC's. The Krait has been in smartphones since june but the Ti and the Sammy core are not in any phone to date.

post #68 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Still waiting for you to provide evidence to back your claim.
I provided a link showing that the EVO LTE is only using an A8.
Of course, with Android phones, it's hard to tell because they so frequently use the same name for unrelated phones, but it IS clear that you've never provided a shred of evidence that anyone is already shipping an A15 phone. So where's the evidence?

As stated by other members, your link showed the INSTRUCTION SET that the Krait uses NOT the core reference design. Big difference.

post #69 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

No, the article isn't really clear about anything! It speculates the iPhone 5 is the first product(?) or smartphone(?) to ship with an A15-based core architecture, however it only points to a different article that speculates the same thing as proof. Next, the article later says that Samsung, TI, etc. are making A15-based chips too. It does NOT say those companies have only announced those products with mass production scheduled for a later (which seems not to be true from other sources), invalidating the article's entire premise.

The die sizes add up given a 32 micro proces, 543MP4 and dual A15. Quad A9 would be bigger.

It will be interesting to see what they did. They could have just speed doubled it. Dual core at 1.8 GHz.
post #70 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


Fair enough. Then you just have to get into the hairsplitting in the article. The Krait is not an A15 core. Does it matter? No, not really. The article is still correct, but who really cares.

Agreed. It doesnt matter, apple has proven time and time again that any OS performance is more reliant on implementation than CPU performance. This is coming from a current android user  (I own a small-biz with 9 sprint lines, 4 are iphones and 5 androids, i personally have used both and am typing on a Macbook Air 11). 

 

My Krait-core EVO Lte seems much slower than my wifes Iphone 4s. Im sure I have much more RAW processing power than her but its all about apples IMPLEMENTATION. 

 

That stupid 3.5" inch screen is a deal breaker for me.

post #71 of 102

The responses on here are HILARIOUS.  No one has bench marked Apple's version of the A15, nor do we know the specs, but what can be said about it, it should be better than the A9 right?

 

Of course, but I'm not sure how much. 

 

If history is a guide, and it is, Apple's version won't be the best processor on the market.(They constantly underclock to improve battery life). My money would be on Qualcomm, they have been killing the market for the past couple of years in designing quality low power consumption mobile chips.  Their SoC technology, "Krait" is phenomenal to say the least.

Samsung also has an A15 chip being released in the new Galaxy Nexus and possibly the Galaxy Note 2; the Exynos 5 Dual 5250. However, will either one of these chips outperform the S4 in real world applications? We'll see.

The Galaxy SIII U.S. versions have the Snapdragon S4 btw.

post #72 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


Is the Krait even relevant to this discussion? What phone is it in? I can find several that are coming but none that will ship before next Friday... The article only claims it will be the first A15 core shipping in a phone. Which part of that do you dispute?

Umm.. the HTC one x has the krait core for all phones sold in the USA since June of this year, including the EVO LTE (my current phone).

If it uses the S4, it should be named the HTC four x.

post #73 of 102

We finally got our A15-based "A6" chip in the "iPhone 5". Amazing engineering, beautiful design. I'll be getting two within 30 days.

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post #74 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Is the Krait even relevant to this discussion?
It isn't.
Quote:
What phone is it in? I can find several that are coming but none that will ship before next Friday... The article only claims it will be the first A15 core shipping in a phone. Which part of that do you dispute?

I know of no A15 based cell phone that is actually shipping.

Unfortunately this thread has become side tracked and unfortunately has started out based on speculation. Hopefully we will get some solid info soon.

There is one thing that most here have not considered, this chip could be highly modified ARM architecture. Apple has all of the talent In place to customize the ARM architecture so that it is tailored to the task at hand. In stead of a straight up A9 or A15, we could be seeing Apple branching off in its own direction in the same way Qualcomm has.
post #75 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Agreed, but it still seems dishonest to completely exclude the Krait. I guess thats why is appleinsider.com and not smartphoneinsider.com

Kraut has nothing to do with ARMs A15 IP. Frankly it is a bit dishonest to bring it into the discussion.
post #76 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

The die sizes add up given a 32 micro proces, 543MP4 and dual A15. Quad A9 would be bigger.
It will be interesting to see what they did. They could have just speed doubled it. Dual core at 1.8 GHz.

This is the thing, iPhone runs at some plane between 800 and 900 MHZ so at the bottom they would only need to hit 1.6 GHz to double performance. This is very possible even for A9 cores at sub 32nm processes. A few improvements here and there for the memory subsystem and GPu and you have a chip that runs twice as fast.

Is A6 based on Cortex A15? I don't know nor does anybody else at this point. This thread though is pretty long already considering it is based on speculation from another web site.
post #77 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WESALLEN View Post

Yes, apple is way ahead of TI or Sammy. But when it comes to SoC ( systems on chips) qualcomm seems to be a little ahead of Apple. The Krait is an a15 class chip and its been out for 3 months.

You keep throwing this out in the hope that you become correct. If the Krait uses the A15 instruction set (the term "A15-class chip" is just a BS term) - which you acknowledge - then it is by definition NOT an A15 chip. It's someone's implementation of the A15 instruction set, which you could replicate with a breadboard and a soldering iron - but you would not have an A15 chip. The article remains correct in that the iPhone 5 has the first shipping A15 processor - it is not, apparently, the first phone/processor to use the A15 instruction set. The article claims the former and not the latter. I don't know why you are still arguing this point.
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post #78 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Kraut has nothing to do with ARMs A15 IP. Frankly it is a bit dishonest to bring it into the discussion.

Exactly.
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post #79 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Samsung has the exact chip listed on its website. I wouldnt exactly call it beating samsung since samsung did make it. They just gave them priority over its own phones.

 

Apple designs their own chips. Samsung gets the blueprints and uses their advanced 32nm tech to manufacture the chips. Then, a few months after getting the blueprints they start producing their own.

post #80 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Samsung, for example, does't have a flagship phone that sells in the same quantities, and doesn't have an equivalent to the iPod touch or Apple TV. It doesn't even use the same chips across its smartphone lines. Of course, it doesn't even use the same OS across its smartphone lines. 

 

 

Um, Samsung have a whole ramp of different smartphones, the Galaxy SIII is selling in the tens of millions just like the iPhone.

 

I would love for the A6 to be Cortex A15 based, but the only concrete suggestion of this is that A4 used Cortex A8, and A5 and A5X were Cortex A9 chips, so A6 must be the next Cortex up, the A15.

 

Equally the 2x CPU performance could have been gained from using faster clocked A9s (1.6GHz isn't a problem for a 32nm manufacturing process) or quad A9s (won't use up much space on a 32nm process).

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