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A time to Worry?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
What would you do if you found the following information while doing a repair with Disk Utilitiy?

Repairing disk "New Stuff".
Checking HFS Plus volume.
Checking Extents Overflow file.
Checking Catalog file.
Missing thread record (id = 951345)
Checking multi-linked files.
Checking Catalog hierarchy.
Invalid volume file count
(It should be 101833 instead of 101990)

Checking volume bitmap.
Checking volume information.
Invalid volume file count
(It should be 101990 instead of 101833)

Repairing volume.
Repair completed.

I tried MacJanitor first, but it was done way too fast. I am busy cleaning a hard drive of all extraneous crap, so it should be doing something <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #2 of 22
Are you one of those people that has used "sudo rm" ?

If so, that is likely the reason.

I have also seen that a few times running the original OS X if the system was shut down and a program was still running( apparently the OS did not properly clean up all open files owned by a process that was killed ).

I hope this helps.
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post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Actually, I don't use the terminal. This did, however, start immediatly after getting the Garbage Screen of Death I posted a few days ago. I only got the I]Garbage Screen of Death[/I] after installing Jaguar...

Maybe my machine is allergic to cats?
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post #4 of 22
If I were you I would back everything up and initialize and reinstall Jaguar. Partition your drive and intall 9 on a different partition from 10.2 Then go to the terminal and type: sudo diskutil enablejournal /

\tThen stop doing whatever you are to screw up your computer. Turning journaling on should stop any future corruption on your HD. And try unplugging everything you have plugged into your comp as well. Also What computer do you have? It is very likely that you need to install a firmware update. If this is the case I suggest doing so before installing 10.2. The firm ware updates can only be run in 9.2 and can be found on the 10.2 CD. And while you are at it run the Apple Hardware Check CD just to be sure.

\tAnd don't run any disk utilities for 10.2 that have to been updated to run under 10.2 otherwise you could seriously screw your Mac up. And after turning journaling on I wouldn't worry about running disk utilities any more any way.
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post #5 of 22
Reformat and reinstall? Please.
That seems to be everyone's "quick fix" these days.

These are common, usually non-malicious errors. I get errors like this all the time. It's nothing to get too worried about. Most frequently these kinds of disk errors can crop up when apps crash or the system wigs out while it is either reading or writing to the disk. If you enable journaling, the vast majority of disk errors will never happen again because of how journaling tracks all disk access. Of course, you should repair everything once again before enabling the journaling.

MacJanitor is NOT a disk utility or "system fixer" type of app. The only thing it does it call up and run Mac OS X's own daily, weekly, and monthly scripts. If your Mac is on during the night, there's no need to run MacJanitor because the system automatically runs them on, well, a daily, weekly, and monthly basis. For the most part, these automated scripts just clean out system logs that you would typically never see anyway.

[ 11-30-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
post #6 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by MrBillData:
<strong>Are you one of those people that has used "sudo rm" ?

If so, that is likely the reason.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

:confused: rm is a standard unix deleting command, sudo just gives you root powers, how does this make a difference?
post #7 of 22
It doesn't.

And I think the reformat-and-reinstall proponents are our Switcher friends. Guys! IT'S NOT NECESSARY ANYMORE!

Those errors are common if you have a crash, an app crash, an app not clean up correctly, an app not close a file before quitting, etc, etc, etc. They happen very frequently. Are they 'correct'? Nope. That's why they're errors. But they are minor minor little nitpicks that are taken care of normally at boot time when fsck runs.

Don't worry about them unless they happen *all* the time, with no crashes.

[ 11-30-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks all. FYI this is one of the original 350mhz B&W macs, and I lent it to a freind, well... he was a freind... the disut had it overclocked to 375mhz with an odd bus speed. Stupid weasle maneuver number one...

I turned on journalling as someone suggested. Thanks... I shall have to read up on it.

The firmware is at 3.1.1, and I had no idea they were on the 10.2 disk. Thanks...

And I always keep OS9 on a separate partition from OSX. The only thing to be aware of there is lost files while printing programs crash. The scratch file is under temp/501/ or something like that, and one of the folders is invisible.

And don't ask me how long it took me to figure out where 3G of harddrive space disappeared to.

Thanks all for your constructive technical help. It is muchly appreciated. I shall let you know if the firmware is needed.

Moocho Grassy-ass

[ 11-30-2002: Message edited by: nosey ]</p>
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post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Well, I tried journalling. No such luck. Five times of having the computer tell me it must be restarted, only to crash within ten minutes the same way... Patience is wearing thin, so I am afraid I will have to take everyone's word that journalling is good for us...

In this case, it didn't seem to do the job.

[ 11-30-2002: Message edited by: nosey ]</p>
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post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Just in case noone noticed, the main point I was trying to make at the beginning of all this was that at one point the Disk Utility says:

(It should be 101833 instead of 101990)

And then shortly thereafter it says:

(It should be 101990 instead of 101833)

Does that make any sense?
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post #11 of 22
Ya, these type of errors are very common.
post #12 of 22
Er, overclocking, if done incorrectly, can exhibit the types of bizarre behaviours you're seeing on the disk.

Any chance you could slow it back down to 350MHz?

That might be a good start...
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post #13 of 22
Um, yeah. Undo the overclocking.

Then fix the issue.

Then turn on journaling. Journaling of crappy info is going to make it worse.
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post #14 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by chych:
<strong>

:confused: rm is a standard unix deleting command, sudo just gives you root powers, how does this make a difference?</strong><hr></blockquote>

It matters a lot.

The system tries to keep you from doing really stupid things while you are just a user. But it assumes that you understand what the consequences of your actions when you are Root.

Their are many system tables that can easily be corrupted by such actions. Yes, during the reboot the System will fix most of these inconsistences. As stated previously, thats why fsck runs at boot time. You will find that if Root is misused you could render your system unbootable.

I just think that people should be aware of such possiblities and not think that sudo is some kind of magical cure all.
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post #15 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by MrBillData:
<strong>It matters a lot.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not in this case, sorry.

[quote]<strong>The system tries to keep you from doing really stupid things while you are just a user. But it assumes that you understand what the consequences of your actions when you are Root.</strong><hr></blockquote>

True.

[quote]<strong>Their are many system tables that can easily be corrupted by such actions.</strong><hr></blockquote>

While true, what you're talking about isn't the case here.

He's seeing corruption in the *disk* headers. These have nothing to do with the 'system tables', and are the same regardless of whether you are running as root, yourself, or yomamma.

No matter what user you are running as, by the time the command to delete, move, create, or append data to a file gets down to the level that he's seeing errors at, the disk couldn't care less what user it came from, and in fact has no idea which one it did come from. The OS security layers handle all of that. This is far below that.

[quote]<strong>Yes, during the reboot the System will fix most of these inconsistences. As stated previously, thats why fsck runs at boot time. You will find that if Root is misused you could render your system unbootable.

I just think that people should be aware of such possiblities and not think that sudo is some kind of magical cure all.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, no, of course not. But you are mistaken that the cause of this could even *be* running as root, or using 'rm' as sudo. Sorry. The two have nothing to do with one another.

This is simply a disk header corruption issue, and lies so far beneath user level actions (even root) that the two are completely unconnected.

[ 12-01-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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post #16 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>

Well, no, of course not. But you are mistaken that the cause of this could even *be* running as root, or using 'rm' as sudo. Sorry. The two have nothing to do with one another.

This is simply a disk header corruption issue, and lies so far beneath user level actions (even root) that the two are completely unconnected.

[ 12-01-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was replying to the response by chych and not directly to the thread. Maybe you didn't see that. Maybe you should have. :confused:

The reason for the file headers being corrupt... well, there are dozens of possiblities.
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post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Well... the overclocking was set back to 350mhz... and even though it was only a 25mhz difference, the dam thing feels less 'snappy'... But hey, no windows person can say they have 'nt running on a machine that is pushing its fifth (or 6th?) year...

I have since reinstalled the system again. Now it is on a 5G partition with no other programs on it. The iPhoto folder and iTunes folder are on the other partition, and only the system applications are on the smaller one. The only third party things are Epson print drivers, Logitec trackball and Scanwise for the AGFA scanner.

I have had an odd problem where the screen shades from the top down and a message comes on saying I have to reboot the system...

Maybe this system is nearing the end of its usefulness... stands to reason, I just finished paying the lease out a few months ago...
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post #18 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by MrBillData:
<strong>

I was replying to the response by chych and not directly to the thread. Maybe you didn't see that. Maybe you should have. :confused:

The reason for the file headers being corrupt... well, there are dozens of possiblities.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, and none of them have to do with your original response:

[quote]Are you one of those people that has used "sudo rm" ?

If so, that is likely the reason.<hr></blockquote>

Obviously, you can see how this led me to believe that you thought that this was somehow related.

Nosey: Whut tha.... ?

Are you saying that the screen dims, and a dialog box comes up saying you need to restart? Next time it comes up, could you tell us a) what application is running in the foreground, b) *exactly* what the dialog says, word for word, and whether or not there is an icon in it, c) what you were doing at the time.
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post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
I have a picture...

I don't think the programs make any difference, it just putzed out on me. Once it was mail... the next time it was preview, mail and suitcase... Another time it was suitcase, mail and IE... then another time it happened before the desktop came on the screen...

The exact wording was (In english)
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the power button for a few seconds or press the Restart button.

It really started happening after turning on Journaling, but since a reinstall of the system without journaling on it hasn't happened for five or six hours...

[ 12-01-2002: Message edited by: nosey ]</p>
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post #20 of 22
That's the kernel panic screen. A kernel panic is a failure at the lowest level of the system. See my explanation in your other thread <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=002266" target="_blank">here</a>.

I suspect that all the hardware fiddling may have just pushed your little iMac a bit too far. Overclocking can be a dangerous thing and sometimes will permanently damage a system.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> Good luck.
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
I always thought the kernel panic was when it looked like the terminal program started and spewed a bunch of text on the screen... And a line that said something like 'c continue or r to restart'...

I haven't had one of those in quite a while...

Now I know.. Thanks all... I will try to get the information as stated on the support page and let Apple know about this, politely, of course...

[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: nosey ]</p>
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post #22 of 22
*smacks forehead* Duh. Right. *THAT* dimmed screen with a dialog. Sorry, I haven't seen one yet in 10.2.

Yeah, that's the new kernel panic screen. Scares the less technically inclined a lot less than the old spew did, and now it saves the spew to a log file on disk so developers don't have to take a screenshot or manually record the info. Much nicer all around.
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