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Blood on His Hands: Our President is Getting Americans Killed - Page 6

post #201 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The desperate act of someone who doesn't have a real argument.

 

Actually it's the desperate act of someone who has grown tired of idiocy.

I grow tired of your idiocy but you don't see me calling you names.1wink.gif

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post #202 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Also I've previously acknowledged that the Democrats do this also but it's nothing when compared to what the Republicans have done ( or didn't you catch that? ).

 

You're right. The Democrats and liberals and "progressives" are far worse. It's not even close.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Also these are healthy changes with respect to the food items. I don't believe anyone's trying to outlaw salt.lol.gif

 

So the difference is that you agree with these ways of controlling how people live their lives, so it's okay. Got it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

As for Obama's position on drugs it's been mild in comparison to previous administrations.

 

Actually, it's not. It's worse.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

He is a politician after all and I'm sure he's make lots of people mad if he just said let's legalize it all.

 

This isn't a matter of him saying let's legalize it. It's a matter of his administration deliberately increasing enforcement. There's a big difference. I wouldn't expect expect him to come out and support a person's right to chose what substances they put into their bodies. He's a gutless politician after all. But it's quite another matter to deliberately increase enforcement.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's really funny how times change when we a have a liberal in the Whitehouse. For years you didn't even see people smoking pot on TV or the movies ( since the late 70's ). Now it's back again as the attitude has been more accepting.

 

And you attribute this to Obama's ascendancy to office? 1confused.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're just spitting in the wind MJ

 

Apparently you got a new stupid phrase for Christmas.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #203 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Also I've previously acknowledged that the Democrats do this also but it's nothing when compared to what the Republicans have done ( or didn't you catch that? ).

 

You're right. The Democrats and liberals and "progressives" are far worse. It's not even close.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Also these are healthy changes with respect to the food items. I don't believe anyone's trying to outlaw salt.lol.gif

 

So the difference is that you agree with these ways of controlling how people live their lives, so it's okay. Got it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

As for Obama's position on drugs it's been mild in comparison to previous administrations.

 

Actually, it's not. It's worse.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

He is a politician after all and I'm sure he's make lots of people mad if he just said let's legalize it all.

 

This isn't a matter of him saying let's legalize it. It's a matter of his administration deliberately increasing enforcement. There's a big difference. I wouldn't expect expect him to come out and support a person's right to chose what substances they put into their bodies. He's a gutless politician after all. But it's quite another matter to deliberately increase enforcement.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's really funny how times change when we a have a liberal in the Whitehouse. For years you didn't even see people smoking pot on TV or the movies ( since the late 70's ). Now it's back again as the attitude has been more accepting.

 

And you attribute this to Obama's ascendancy to office? 1confused.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're just spitting in the wind MJ

 

Apparently you got a new stupid phrase for Christmas.

You're so predictable MJ. And apparently you can't read :

 

 

Quote:

Also I've previously acknowledged that the Democrats do this also but it's nothing when compared to what the Republicans have done ( or didn't you catch that? ).

 

You're right. The Democrats and liberals and "progressives" are far worse. It's not even close.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whereas it was a big priority for Republican administrations. And where did it get them? No where.

 

As I've said which you seem to like glossing over is the Democrats are guilty of this also but it's nothing compared to the Republicans history.

 

And now it seems Obama is getting that it just doesn't work. If he had any other stance why would he be turning the other cheeck about Wash. and Colorado? Hmmm?

 

You're trying the old " Look at them, look at them " when the situation isn't even close to the same.

 

 

Quote:

And you attribute this to Obama's ascendancy to office?

I've seen it time and again with different administrations. When times are more liberal it's reflected in our culture.

 

If Bush had been in the Whitehouse for all of this time we wouldn't even be discussing the reality of legalization.

 

 

Quote:

So the difference is that you agree with these ways of controlling how people live their lives, so it's okay. Got it.

No. On the one hand you have a group that is trying to tell you who you can marry, have sex with ( or even in some cases how you can have sex ) where the other is trying to stop companies from marketing this shit to you and lying about it. But of course you don't see the difference.1rolleyes.gif

 

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/52187/

 

 

Quote:
There won’t be any new regulation, the memo says, but restaurateurs will be encouraged to join a “voluntary” initiative. Frieden is also considering “whether it would be better to publicize lower-sodium efforts via a campaign, or whether that approach could turn off consumers who might be wary of the taste impact,” Vinson wrote. Officially, the city still isn’t talking. “We don’t have an initiative that’s well enough developed to talk about yet,” says a spokesman

 

If you can't see the difference here MJ it's only because you're too stubborn to see the truth.

 

I'm pretty sure it's  still legal to grab the salt shaker and salt the hell out of your food! I don't believe anyone has taken that away ( or even talking about it ). So be our guest and increase your blood pressure. It can only lead to better times for you.1wink.gif

 

You're spitting in the wind MJ. An old phrase for an old attitutde.


Edited by jimmac - 1/8/13 at 2:54pm
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post #204 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

As I've said which you seem to like glossing over is the Democrats are guilty of this also but it's nothing compared to the Republicans history.

 

You're trying the old " Look at them, look at them " when the situation isn't even close to the same.

 

I know the situations aren't even close. I know the Democrats/liberals/progressives are nothing compared to the Republicans. The Democrats/liberals/progressives are much worse.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. On the one hand you have a group that is trying to tell you who you can marry, have sex with ( or even in some cases how you can have sex ) where the other is trying to stop companies from marketing this shit to you and lying about it. But of course you don't see the difference.1rolleyes.gif

 

I don't deny that some conservatives wish to implement laws that restrict people's liberty. The problem here is that liberals claim the moral high ground by claiming they support liberty while actually doing just as much (or more) to restrict people's liberty. This hypocrisy alone makes them worse. But the other thing is people like you who apologize for these restrictions because you agree with them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're spitting in the wind MJ.

 

Have fun with that one.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #205 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

As I've said which you seem to like glossing over is the Democrats are guilty of this also but it's nothing compared to the Republicans history.

 

You're trying the old " Look at them, look at them " when the situation isn't even close to the same.

 

I know the situations aren't even close. I know the Democrats/liberals/progressives are nothing compared to the Republicans. The Democrats/liberals/progressives are much worse.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. On the one hand you have a group that is trying to tell you who you can marry, have sex with ( or even in some cases how you can have sex ) where the other is trying to stop companies from marketing this shit to you and lying about it. But of course you don't see the difference.1rolleyes.gif

 

I don't deny that some conservatives wish to implement laws that restrict people's liberty. The problem here is that liberals claim the moral high ground by claiming they support liberty while actually doing just as much (or more) to restrict people's liberty. This hypocrisy alone makes them worse. But the other thing is people like you who apologize for these restrictions because you agree with them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You're spitting in the wind MJ.

 

Have fun with that one.

God! What horse shit.

And this is just childish :

 

Quote:

As I've said which you seem to like glossing over is the Democrats are guilty of this also but it's nothing compared to the Republicans history.

 

You're trying the old " Look at them, look at them " when the situation isn't even close to the same.

 

And you wrote :

I know the situations aren't even close. I know the Democrats/liberals/progressives are nothing compared to the Republicans. The Democrats/liberals/progressives are much worse.

 

If you don't want to listen to the other person simply stop posting. Then you don't have to hear something you don't like and as BR would say get your whittle fewings hurt.1wink.gif

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post #206 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

God! What horse shit.

And this is just childish :

 

If you don't want to listen to the other person simply stop posting. Then you don't have to hear something you don't like and as BR would say get your whittle fewings hurt.1wink.gif

 

I've listened. I simply disagree with your claim of who is worse. Learn the difference. And, no, my feelings aren't hurt at all. Don't flatter yourself. Neither you or BR carry that kind of weight in my life.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #207 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

God! What horse shit.
And this is just childish :

If you don't want to listen to the other person simply stop posting. Then you don't have to hear something you don't like and as BR would say get your whittle fewings hurt.1wink.gif

I've listened. I simply disagree with your claim of who is worse. Learn the difference. And, no, my feelings aren't hurt at all. Don't flatter yourself. Neither you or BR carry that kind of weight in my life.
BR and Jimmac (and I) are simply saying what the voters said in November. And I do believe that carries weight in your life.
post #208 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

God! What horse shit.

And this is just childish :

 

If you don't want to listen to the other person simply stop posting. Then you don't have to hear something you don't like and as BR would say get your whittle fewings hurt.1wink.gif

 

I've listened. I simply disagree with your claim of who is worse. Learn the difference. And, no, my feelings aren't hurt at all. Don't flatter yourself. Neither you or BR carry that kind of weight in my life.

There is nothing wrong with wishing for more freedoms for the individual. It's something to strive for. But it's a place we aren't at yet.

 

 

Hey I know many libertarians. They're nice people. I used to be one once but then I grew up and realized it wouldn't work in our current state of human development.

 

Hey they even realized this in old SF films from the 50's.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrZagvsP3o0

 

Later in this movie Nielsen says that " We're all part monsters in our subconscious that's why we have laws and religion ".

 

A great old film that had a point. Or you could look at the closing min. of The day the earth Stood Still.

 

Another very cool old film. Really more a statemnt about McCarthyism of the time. By the way more conservatives trying to control us.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_seKyGYlTHY

 

Now you can try to make fun of these old clips but the principles contained in them are still sound. You simply can't just give humans everything they want. The reason is that they will abuse that privilege.


Edited by jimmac - 1/8/13 at 4:19pm
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post #209 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You simply can't just give humans everything they want. The reason is that they will abuse that privilege.

 

You're right. Instead we should give some of them lots of power over all of them. That's a much better idea.

 

1rolleyes.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #210 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You simply can't just give humans everything they want. The reason is that they will abuse that privilege.

 

You're right. Instead we should give some of them lots of power over all of them. That's a much better idea.

 

1rolleyes.gif

I knew you wouldn't get it.1frown.gif

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post #211 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I knew you wouldn't get it.1frown.gif

 

Your view: People are generally un-evolved bad beings. You want some of them to have lots of power over others. You're right. I don't get it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #212 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I knew you wouldn't get it.1frown.gif

 

Your view: People are generally un-evolved bad beings. You want some of them to have lots of power over others. You're right. I don't get it.

No you don't get it. Like Klaatu said " We don't pretend to have achieved perfection " Also " This doesn't mean giving up any freedom except the freedom to act irresponsibly ".

 

Government restricting us isn't a perfect solution however it's much better than letting them run wild. We've had plenty of examples ( and history ) to illustrate what happens when you do that. We aren't ready for that. What happened recently in Connecticut ( or Portland, or Colorado etc. ) is a good example. Or what the banks did before the last economic melt down. It's really too bad but you simply can't count on people doing the right thng all of the time.

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post #213 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No you don't get it. Like Klaatu said " We don't pretend to have achieved perfection " Also " This doesn't mean giving up any freedom except the freedom to act irresponsibly ".

 

And this is exactly what you don't get. If you don't have the freedom to act irresponsibly, you don't have freedom.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Government restricting us isn't a perfect solution however it's much better than letting them run wild.

 

Them? By "them" I assume you mean all the people who don't behave as you (or tonton or BR) would like them to behave. How....ummm...smug.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

What happened recently in Connecticut is a good example.

 

Of course it's not a good example.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's really too bad but you simply can't count on people doing the right thng all of the time.

 

I know. So we ought to give a select few of them lots of power over the rest of "them."

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #214 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No you don't get it. Like Klaatu said " We don't pretend to have achieved perfection " Also " This doesn't mean giving up any freedom except the freedom to act irresponsibly ".

 

And this is exactly what you don't get. If you don't have the freedom to act irresponsibly, you don't have freedom.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Government restricting us isn't a perfect solution however it's much better than letting them run wild.

 

Them? By "them" I assume you mean all the people who don't behave as you (or tonton or BR) would like them to behave. How....ummm...smug.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

What happened recently in Connecticut is a good example.

 

Of course it's not a good example.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's really too bad but you simply can't count on people doing the right thng all of the time.

 

I know. So we ought to give a select few of them lots of power over the rest of "them."

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post #215 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

 

Yes. You have a major one.

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post #216 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I know. So we ought to give a select few of them lots of power over the rest of "them."

 

Yes. People are violent. So let's take guns away from all but a few of them and hope the few who have them don't decide to be violent. Makes perfect sense. nonsense, that is.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #217 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I know. So we ought to give a select few of them lots of power over the rest of "them."

Yes. People are violent. So let's take guns away from all but a few of them and hope the few who have them don't decide to be violent. Makes perfect sense. nonsense, that is.
No, let's give guns to the ones whom we've elected to give our trust. It's not the perfect solution, but it's the best solution. There is no perfect solution, but allowing just anyone equal access to firearms gives a much higher chance that those firearms are going to end up in the hands of someone insane or someone stupid.
post #218 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, let's give guns to the ones whom we've elected to give our trust. It's not the perfect solution, but it's the best solution. There is no perfect solution, but allowing just anyone equal access to firearms gives a much higher chance that those firearms are going to end up in the hands of someone insane or someone stupid.

I believe there is a higher concentration of insane and stupid people in government than in the general populace. Just look at how they've handled our money.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #219 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


I believe there is a higher concentration of insane and stupid people in government than in the general populace. Just look at how they've handled our money.

 

Not just money...look how they've handled their weapons. Barack Obama alone is responsible for deaths of more children than someone like the Sandy Hook shooter. But there's precious little outrage over that, ample rationalization and just enough word-smithing ("collateral damage") to make everyone okay with it.

 

I wonder how many of our anti-gun "friends" are willing to openly and loudly call for Barack Obama to lead by example and drop the rather robust and heavily armed security detail surrounding himself and his family. Will they call for this? If not, why not?

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post #220 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, let's give guns to the ones whom we've elected to give our trust. It's not the perfect solution, but it's the best solution. There is no perfect solution, but allowing just anyone equal access to firearms gives a much higher chance that those firearms are going to end up in the hands of someone insane or someone stupid.

I believe there is a higher concentration of insane and stupid people in government than in the general populace. Just look at how they've handled our money.
Right, and look how many children they've massacred. Oh, right.

And on the topic of money, look how they've handled the plight of the poor, and education, and keeping our food supply safe, and roads, and reducing crime steadily... Much better than the austerity fools would have!
post #221 of 242
You guys are so easy to pin the blame. Please give credit where credit is due. Do you love your country or not? I say you don't. You love the land. You may love the people. But you forget that our system of government is part and parcel of what our country is, and for that you hold no love. No respect. No patriotism. You don't want what's best for the country. You want what you think is best for you.
post #222 of 242

If you love the country so much what are you doing living in Hong Kong?
 

post #223 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

If you love the country so much what are you doing living in Hong Kong?

 
Good point. Part of the answer lies in the ultra divisiveness and anger among Americans. Part of it lies in the lack of empathy among Americans. Part of it lies in the fact that I don't want to live in a place where I can be robbed at gunpoint at any time (and that some people think that ME carrying a gun is a solution to that problem). Part of it lies in the fact that I don't want to live in a place where I have to deal with people so stupid that they can say with all seriousness (and anger) that Obama is a commie Muslim atheist. Part of it lies in the shitty public transport system, dependence on private cars, traffic and lack of parking, getting your car broken into or keyed for no reason. Part of it the absolutely shitty medical system that requires me to pay much more in insurance fees than I can possibly ever save in taxes by having a nationalized system... Part of it is that I've always identified with Asians, love Chinese women, speak some Cantonese... And many more reasons.
post #224 of 242
You'll notice absent from that list is any criticism of the main points of the American political system. The representative constitutional republic built on the triumvirate system of checks and balances... that is what made the country great. Not unbridled capitalism, as many might want us to believe.
post #225 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

 

Yes. You have a major one.

Really childish response. The equvilent of saying " Nya, nya, nya you too! ".1rolleyes.gif

 

You've been doing that a lot lately.1wink.gif

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post #226 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I know. So we ought to give a select few of them lots of power over the rest of "them."

Yes. People are violent. So let's take guns away from all but a few of them and hope the few who have them don't decide to be violent. Makes perfect sense. nonsense, that is.
No, let's give guns to the ones whom we've elected to give our trust. It's not the perfect solution, but it's the best solution. There is no perfect solution, but allowing just anyone equal access to firearms gives a much higher chance that those firearms are going to end up in the hands of someone insane or someone stupid.

 

Quote:

 It's not the perfect solution, but it's the best solution. There is no perfect solution,

Something I tried to get him to see with those old film clips. Even back in the 50's they understood this.

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post #227 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, let's give guns to the ones whom we've elected to give our trust. It's not the perfect solution, but it's the best solution. There is no perfect solution, but allowing just anyone equal access to firearms gives a much higher chance that those firearms are going to end up in the hands of someone insane or someone stupid.

I believe there is a higher concentration of insane and stupid people in government than in the general populace. Just look at how they've handled our money.

I think it's the exact opposite. I think it would be very unsettling to know how many wackos there are just out in everyday life.

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post #228 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Really childish response. The equvilent of saying " Nya, nya, nya you too! ".1rolleyes.gif

 

You've been doing that a lot lately.1wink.gif

 

Let me see if I have this right:

 

1. You claim I have a blind spot (by posting a silly image).

2. I claim you have a blind spot.

3. You call me childish.

 

You see no irony or hypocrisy in your response?

 

This is straight out of BR's "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" manual.


Edited by MJ1970 - 1/9/13 at 2:21pm

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post #229 of 242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Good point. Part of the answer lies in the ultra divisiveness and anger among Americans. 

 

Made much worse by our leaders, specifically President Obama.  

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the lack of empathy among Americans

 

How do you support that?  

 

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the fact that I don't want to live in a place where I can be robbed at gunpoint at any time (and that some people think that ME carrying a gun is a solution to that problem).

 

You can be robbed anywhere...maybe less likely with a gun, but a knife?  

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the fact that I don't want to live in a place where I have to deal with people so stupid that they can say with all seriousness (and anger) that Obama is a commie Muslim atheist.

 

In fairness, there are some people like that, but I don't know any of them, nor have I ever met anyone who does.  I've seen some video clips of people with lower socio-economic backgrounds (particularly from the deep rural South) espousing some of those views.  There's no evidence he's a Communist, but there is quite a bit that he is a Socialist at his core, something people sometimes confuse with Communism.  I don't of anyone who has called him an atheist, but the notion that he is actually Muslim--while not something I happen to believe--is not outrageous.  He was Muslim as a child lived in Indonesia for a time.  His policies towards Middle Eastern nations, and actions while in office at least put that accusation into "not likely, but not totally nuts" category.  I've never heard him called an atheist.  

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the shitty public transport system, dependence on private cars, traffic and lack of parking, getting your car broken into or keyed for no reason.

 

What is so appealing about public transport?  I can't disagree about traffic and parking.   

 

 

Quote:
Part of it the absolutely shitty medical system

 

We have the most advanced medical system in the world.  People from all over the world come here.  

 

 

Quote:
that requires me to pay much more in insurance fees than I can possibly ever save in taxes by having a nationalized system...

 

Not the medical system...that's an insurance problem.  

 

 

 

Quote:
 Part of it is that I've always identified with Asians, love Chinese women, speak some Cantonese... And many more reasons.

 

What do you mean "identified" with Asians?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #230 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Really childish response. The equivalent of saying " Nya, nya, nya you too! ".1rolleyes.gif

 

You've been doing that a lot lately.1wink.gif

 

Let me see if I have this right:

 

1. You claim I have a blind spot (by posting a silly image).

2. I claim you have a blind spot.

3. You call me childish.

 

You see no irony or hypocrisy in your response?

 

This is straight out of BR's "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" manual.

Because my dear MJ just like someone else here we all know and love when you don't have valid arguments anymore ( and you know it ) you post insults or the childish mimic of what the other party has said. At least I posted something that illustrated my frustration but you just go " Nya, nya, nya". Childish.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #231 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Good point. Part of the answer lies in the ultra divisiveness and anger among Americans. 

 

Made much worse by our leaders, specifically President Obama.  

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the lack of empathy among Americans

 

How do you support that?  

 

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the fact that I don't want to live in a place where I can be robbed at gunpoint at any time (and that some people think that ME carrying a gun is a solution to that problem).

 

You can be robbed anywhere...maybe less likely with a gun, but a knife?  

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the fact that I don't want to live in a place where I have to deal with people so stupid that they can say with all seriousness (and anger) that Obama is a commie Muslim atheist.

 

In fairness, there are some people like that, but I don't know any of them, nor have I ever met anyone who does.  I've seen some video clips of people with lower socio-economic backgrounds (particularly from the deep rural South) espousing some of those views.  There's no evidence he's a Communist, but there is quite a bit that he is a Socialist at his core, something people sometimes confuse with Communism.  I don't of anyone who has called him an atheist, but the notion that he is actually Muslim--while not something I happen to believe--is not outrageous.  He was Muslim as a child lived in Indonesia for a time.  His policies towards Middle Eastern nations, and actions while in office at least put that accusation into "not likely, but not totally nuts" category.  I've never heard him called an atheist.  

 

Quote:
Part of it lies in the shitty public transport system, dependence on private cars, traffic and lack of parking, getting your car broken into or keyed for no reason.

 

What is so appealing about public transport?  I can't disagree about traffic and parking.   

 

 

Quote:
Part of it the absolutely shitty medical system

 

We have the most advanced medical system in the world.  People from all over the world come here.  

 

 

Quote:
that requires me to pay much more in insurance fees than I can possibly ever save in taxes by having a nationalized system...

 

Not the medical system...that's an insurance problem.  

 

 

 

Quote:
 Part of it is that I've always identified with Asians, love Chinese women, speak some Cantonese... And many more reasons.

 

What do you mean "identified" with Asians?  

FUD.1wink.gif http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0

 

 

 

Quote:
Life and death. In a comparison of five countries, the United States had the best survival rate for breast cancer, second best for cervical cancer and childhood leukemia, worst for kidney transplants, and almost-worst for liver transplants and colorectal cancer. In an eight-country comparison, the United States ranked last in years of potential life lost to circulatory diseases, respiratory diseases and diabetes and had the second highest death rate from bronchitis, asthma and emphysema. Although several factors can affect these results, it seems likely that the quality of care delivered was a significant contributor.

 

 

 

We have the latest tech it's too bad we don't have the best system.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #232 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Because my dear MJ just like someone else here we all know and love when you don't have valid arguments anymore ( and you know it ) you post insults or the childish mimic of what the other party has said. At least I posted something that illustrated my frustration but you just go " Nya, nya, nya". Childish.

 

Let me see if I have this right:

 

1. You claim I'm being childish by making the same claim about you as you made about me.

2. You attempt to "refute" the exposure of this obvious irony and hypocrisy by saying I "don't have valid arguments anymore".

 

 

You see no irony or hypocrisy in your response?

 
This is really quite priceless.
 
But, then, look at me...I'm trying to use logic with someone who is clearly irrational.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #233 of 242

Try harder.  I think you blew a logic circuit or twelve when you said evolution wasn't science.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #234 of 242

I can't believe people can still say with a straight face that the US has the best medical system in the world. At least without adding the qualifier "for the rich" at the end of the sentence.

post #235 of 242

Oh, and insurance being the problem? I agree, but the system as it stands REQUIRES insurance. So what's the practical difference? None.

 

Until there is an option other than insurance -- like affordable costs to begin with, or, more urgently, a PUBLIC OPTION -- insurance being the problem is a systematic problem, plain and simple.

 

It is the American medical system that is a failure, no matter what way you want to twist your words around in denial of that fact.

post #236 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Because my dear MJ just like someone else here we all know and love when you don't have valid arguments anymore ( and you know it ) you post insults or the childish mimic of what the other party has said. At least I posted something that illustrated my frustration but you just go " Nya, nya, nya". Childish.

 

Let me see if I have this right:

 

1. You claim I'm being childish by making the same claim about you as you made about me.

2. You attempt to "refute" the exposure of this obvious irony and hypocrisy by saying I "don't have valid arguments anymore".

 

 

You see no irony or hypocrisy in your response?

 
This is really quite priceless.
 
But, then, look at me...I'm trying to use logic with someone who is clearly irrational.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Because my dear MJ just like someone else here we all know and love when you don't have valid arguments anymore ( and you know it ) you post insults or the childish mimic of what the other party has said. At least I posted something that illustrated my frustration but you just go " Nya, nya, nya". Childish.

 

Let me see if I have this right:

 

1. You claim I'm being childish by making the same claim about you as you made about me.

2. You attempt to "refute" the exposure of this obvious irony and hypocrisy by saying I "don't have valid arguments anymore".

 

 

You see no irony or hypocrisy in your response?

 
This is really quite priceless.
 
But, then, look at me...I'm trying to use logic with someone who is clearly irrational.
 

 I was only answering with something you might understand.1wink.gif

 

Who started first answering in childish mirrors of what I've said MJ? Showing a picture was a visual aid ( and you even attempted to do the mirror thing with that ) to show my frustration with you. Your response was nothing of the kind. You don't offer logic after a certain point. Like some other people here you find different ways to call someone stupid when they don't agree with you. That's usually when you run out of arguments.1wink.gif You don't want to communicate with people you just want to win or be " Right ".


Edited by jimmac - 1/10/13 at 12:59pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #237 of 242

This just keeps getting better.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #238 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This just keeps getting better.

Like I've said communication is low on your priorities. You're too busy being full of yourself.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #239 of 242
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

FUD.1wink.gif http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have the latest tech it's too bad we don't have the best system.

 

Tell me...what is "the system?"

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I can't believe people can still say with a straight face that the US has the best medical system in the world. At least without adding the qualifier "for the rich" at the end of the sentence.

 

I don't think I'd say that...maybe "for those who have insurance and/or for those who can afford it."  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh, and insurance being the problem? I agree, but the system as it stands REQUIRES insurance. So what's the practical difference? None.

 

Access is another debate, but the care provided is the best in the world.  

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Until there is an option other than insurance -- like affordable costs to begin with, or, more urgently, a PUBLIC OPTION -- insurance being the problem is a systematic problem, plain and simple.

 

But tonton, you oppose making costs affordable because you oppose the solutions to make that happen.  A public option is perhaps the worst of all worlds...it will vastly increase demand and thereby cost. 

 

 

 

Quote:

 

It is the American medical system that is a failure, no matter what way you want to twist your words around in denial of that fact.

 

 

 

I'm not twisting anything.  It's just a difference in terminology.  Insurance is the problem.  But I think you really fail to see the root of the problem.  It goes back, ironically, to government actions causing our current problems.  

 

The notion that one's insurance is tied to his job goes back to employer reaction to FDR's wage controls.  They started offering medical insurance as a fringe benefit to get around these restrictions.   Since that time, benefits have been used as a carrot to attract workers.  Over the years, insurance started getting more comprehensive.  Usage went up.  Rates went up.  Doctors fees went up as companies tried to control costs.  Pretty soon patients paying for service became impossible without insurance.  And now, insurance covers everything.  It's as if your car insurance covered oil changes, gas, tires and car washes.   Costs for employers providing coverage are now astronomical.  The entire thing is a vicious cycle of exploding costs.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #240 of 242
You obviously have absolutely no clue about how the system works in other countries. And you have no clue about how WELL the system works in other countries.
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