or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › You can thank unions that this no longer happens in the US
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

You can thank unions that this no longer happens in the US

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/karachi-factory-fire-pakistan-health-safety?newsfeed=true

 

 

 

Quote:
The death toll from the fire that ripped through a Karachi garment factorythis week currently stands at 289, making it the largest number of casualties in a single industrial incident in Pakistan's history. Later, a fire at an illegal shoe factory in Lahore killed 25, bringing the total of Pakistani deaths in industrial incidents that day to more than 300. As the country mourns the enormous loss of life, attention is turning to lax labour laws and the culture of corruption that allows the scant regulations that do exist to be flouted.

 

Why does this sound so familiar?  Oh yeah...the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire in New York in 1911.  

 

 

 

Quote:
Because the managers had locked the doors to the stairwells and exits – a common practice at the time to prevent pilferage and unauthorized breaks[5] – many of the workers who could not escape the burning building jumped from the eighth, ninth, and tenth floors to the streets below. The fire led to legislation requiring improved factory safety standards and helped spur the growth of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union, which fought for better working conditions for sweatshop workers.

 

 

This is why we have regulations.  This is why we have labor unions.  It would be nice if people all got along and obeyed the golden rule.  If we did, we wouldn't need these regulations.  The problem is, left to their own devices, too many people are greedy fucks who put profit above all else, far ahead of the human lives they destroy to achieve it.

 

May this event serve as a reminder that deregulation and anti-union attitudes is a path we have already traveled down with tragic results.  Let's not go down that road again.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2 of 7

This is the historic labor practice that Democrats endorsed.

 

 

That industry was highly regulated. Regulation said these people could not be left to their own devices. It said the centralized power knew best for them. Take this as a reminder of what Democrats supported and continue to support. The mob, the tribe, the herd must always bow down and listen to what the ubermensch knows is best.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #3 of 7
But without slavery, who would pick all the cotton?

Without government, who would build the roads?

Without unions, who would prevent factories from burning?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #4 of 7

Interesting that the statement in your thread title isn't supported by what actually happened. The article you referred to even tells us:

 

The fire led to legislation requiring improved factory safety standards and helped spur the growth of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union, which fought for better working conditions for sweatshop workers.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This is why we have regulations.  This is why we have labor unions.

 

Partly, yes.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It would be nice if people all got along and obeyed the golden rule.  If we did, we wouldn't need these regulations.

 

Non sequitur.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The problem is, left to their own devices, too many people are greedy fucks who put profit above all else, far ahead of the human lives they destroy to achieve it.

 

So, naturally, we should gave some people more power over other people because the people with the power are never "greedy fucks who put profit (or whatever they want) above all else, far ahead of the human lives they destroy to achieve it."

 

Don't you ever get tired of trying internal contradictions of your worldview in balance? It must be terribly exhausting.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

May this event serve as a reminder that deregulation and anti-union attitudes is a path we have already traveled down with tragic results.

 

Non sequitur.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This is why we have regulations.  This is why we have labor unions.  

You don't need a union for this, you just need a law. And even if a union pushes the cation of such a law, unless they are going to have a person in evey building every day checking every door on a non stop rotation, this kind of thing can still happen.
post #6 of 7

I belong to a union.

It's a requirement for my profession... I don't have a choice (other than doing something else for a living.)

 

It SUCKS!

The union causes me to be less productive than I could be.

I spend more time doing less work than I would if the union were not involved. (I could either do more work for more money during the same time... or I could do the same amount of work and have more days off!.. preferably choice 2.)

 

The people involved in the union use that position to garner more time off, money and ancillary benefits that the workers they supposedly represent do NOT get.  And it is paid for by the dues of their constituency.

 

My experience with unions is that the people who "volunteer" for that type of work are typical corrupt politicians.  They do it for personal gain at the expense of the other workers... NOT to make life better for the workers and company.

From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #7 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

I belong to a union.

It's a requirement for my profession... I don't have a choice (other than doing something else for a living.)

 

It SUCKS!

The union causes me to be less productive than I could be.

I spend more time doing less work than I would if the union were not involved. (I could either do more work for more money during the same time... or I could do the same amount of work and have more days off!.. preferably choice 2.)

 

The people involved in the union use that position to garner more time off, money and ancillary benefits that the workers they supposedly represent do NOT get.  And it is paid for by the dues of their constituency.

 

My experience with unions is that the people who "volunteer" for that type of work are typical corrupt politicians.  They do it for personal gain at the expense of the other workers... NOT to make life better for the workers and company.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/karachi-factory-fire-pakistan-health-safety?newsfeed=true

 

 

 

 

Why does this sound so familiar?  Oh yeah...the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire in New York in 1911.  

 

 

 

 

 

This is why we have regulations.  This is why we have labor unions.  It would be nice if people all got along and obeyed the golden rule.  If we did, we wouldn't need these regulations.  The problem is, left to their own devices, too many people are greedy fucks who put profit above all else, far ahead of the human lives they destroy to achieve it.

 

May this event serve as a reminder that deregulation and anti-union attitudes is a path we have already traveled down with tragic results.  Let's not go down that road again.

 

BR, back in 1911, unions were entirely necessary.  Workers were being flat-out abused.  From the mid 1800s to the early 1900s, industrial laborers had no real protections in terms of wages, workplace safety, etc.  As you may know, some rail workers weren't even paid with U.S. currency, but with railroad tokens that could only be spent in the company-run store.   Unionization helped put an end to these kinds of practices, to child labor, etc.

 

But this is not 1911.  Unions no longer are helpful to workers, nor the companies for whom they work.  They are sucking corporations and governments dry.  They are corrupt to the core.  And they are working in their own interests, not the interests of their members.  As you may also know, I'm in a union myself as PA is closed shop, so to speak.  Our system provides some protections, but it also gives me no incentive to work harder and be better at my job.  All of that comes strictly from my own internal motivation.   I can never make more than someone with more experience in my district, even though I put in many more hours and get better results with my students in many cases.   

 

The point?  Unions had their time and place.  But times have changed.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › You can thank unions that this no longer happens in the US