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Apple granted patent for iPhone 4 'antennagate' antenna design

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on Tuesday granted Apple a patent for a bezel gap antenna that appears to have been used in the iPhone 4, a design which ultimately sparked the notorious "antennagate" debacle in 2010.

Antenna Patent
Source: USPTO


Apple's U.S. Patent No. 8,270,914 for "Bezel gap antennas" describes antenna assemblies that can function as part of a wireless device's bezel to reduce the overall size of the product. The patent was first filed for in December, 2009, a little over six months prior to the unveiling of Apple's iPhone 4.

As seen in the invention's background, the "bezel gap" solution was an attempt to bring down device size while maintaining or improving on wireless operating performance:

To satisfy consumer demand for small form factor wireless devices, manufacturers are continually striving to implement wireless communications circuitry such as antenna components using compact structures. At the same time, it may be desirable to include conductive structures in an electronic device such as metal device housing components. Because conductive components can affect radio-frequency performance, care must be taken when incorporating antennas into an electronic device that includes conductive structures.


In order to make the iPhone 4 thin and light, Apple implemented a metal band around the device which was used for both structural rigidity as well as antennas for both Wi-Fi and cellular communication. The patent notes the conductive nature of such bezel elements can be detrimental to radio frequency performance and suggests the introduction of gaps between loop antennas.

Antenna Structure


From the patent's description:

These conductive structures tend to block radio-frequency signals. It may therefore be desirable to form some or all of the rear planar surface of device from a dielectric material such as plastic.


To be clear, the gap can be any dielectric material, including air, however Apple chose to use plastic to ensure the bezel was "aesthetically pleasing."

Going further, the antenna can be tuned to reduce the electric field concentration near the gap, thus avoiding unwanted attenuation from fingers or other body parts.

Antenna Tuning


In one embodiment, the bezel gap structure can separate two loop antennas, one located at the top of a device to handle Wi-FI, GPS and Bluetooth, and another at the bottom for "voice and data communications in one or more cellular telephone bands." This is the exact configuration of the iPhone 4's antennas.

Shortly after the iPhone 4 launched in 2010, customers began to complain of cellular signal loss seemingly associated with how they held the device. The signal loss was later attributed to attenuation with users' hands, prompting Apple to offer free iPhone bumper cases to those affected.

In February, Apple issued a statement regarding the settlement of a class-action lawsuit over what is now known as the "antennagate" controversy, saying the company paid out $15 to a "small number" of people.
post #2 of 53
How NOT to design an antenna. My iP4 has the shittiest reception and most sensitive design of any phone. Touch it and it drops a call. Without a bumper, it's pretty bad.
post #3 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

How NOT to design an antenna. My iP4 has the shittiest reception and most sensitive design of any phone. Touch it and it drops a call. Without a bumper, it's pretty bad.
I've never had any issues with my 4S.
post #4 of 53

LOL!

 

Just don't copy it that way, okay?

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post #5 of 53

Finally, it's a patent worthy of carrying Apple's name on it.  

 

 

 

post #6 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

How NOT to design an antenna. My iP4 has the shittiest reception and most sensitive design of any phone. Touch it and it drops a call. Without a bumper, it's pretty bad.

Yes, that's what all the whiners and media whores say.

Independent tests found otherwise.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #7 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

How NOT to design an antenna. My iP4 has the shittiest reception and most sensitive design of any phone. Touch it and it drops a call. Without a bumper, it's pretty bad.

 

My one is fine, never had a problem in over two years, the strange thing is when I touch the gap the bars go up, I'll be passing it on to my wife, when I get my iPhone 5 as America sleeps.

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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #8 of 53
I, for one, have a protective case with my iPhone4, and the only times I've had bad reception was when I was indoors in a bad cell zone. Which will happen regardless of which phone I use. Other than that I've had no problems with cell reception.

Heck, back many years ago I used to have bad cell reception with my Startac phone and no one bitched and complained like people do.

I've had SIII owners tell me they have worse reception than iPhone users in the same spot with the same carrier. Either way, I think with the 4G/LTE chipset and the new antenna design with the iPhone 5, I'm sure that cell reception will be more up to being in a good cell zone and if not, don't blame the phone, blame the carrier.
post #9 of 53

I was living in Australia when the iPhone 4 was released, and promptly bought one. I was frequently traveling throughout Asia, the Middle East, Europe, and even parts of Africa. I absolutely never had a problem with reception or dropped calls during all of those travels ... until I traveled back to the USA and roamed onto AT&T's network. Then I experienced exactly what had been reported about the iPhone 4.

 

My view is that the iPhone 4's antenna design did show off attenuation issues (and worse than other manufacturer models at the time) if you were in a bad cell reception location - basically in an edge situation. For normal cell networks, there was no problem. The problem was as much the network as it was the device.

 

When the CDMA version was released, the slight changes to the antenna design fixed the attenuation problem. And that antenna design was again used in the 4S.

post #10 of 53

Cool, that's really a brilliant engineering.

 

It's just they didn't test out well without a case.

 

Remember? When an apple engineer lost it or got stolen at a bar. The one who finds it said it have a casing to make it look like an iPhone 3G/3GS?


Edited by makingdots - 9/18/12 at 6:04am
post #11 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Yes, that's what all the whiners and media whores say.
Independent tests found otherwise.
 
 
From a post I made a few weeks ago:
 

 

  

 

 My wife's iPhone 4, open palm vs my wife's iPhone 4 with death grip (signal drops)

 

 

   

 

My iPhone 4s with open palm vs my iPhone 4S with death grip (no changes in signal)

post #12 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

How NOT to design an antenna. My iP4 has the shittiest reception and most sensitive design of any phone. Touch it and it drops a call. Without a bumper, it's pretty bad.

They've sold, what, at least 60 M of these units. You think they all have cases on them? I used Bumpers at first to protect it but the Bumper wears out and I hated the bulk. Haven't had any case on it for about 1.5 years of the 2.25 years I've been using it. Dropped it plenty of times and it didn't break. Have made countless calls and didn't have to pinch the glass to keep the call from dropping.

Don't confuse a single being attenuated with a dropped call. Also don't confuse the dB rating as represented by bars as meaning a single isn't usable. Three bars doesn't mean you get a better call over 4 bars as it doesn't represent call quality or data throughput. As AnandTech clearly showed the bars representing the dB were way off, they hadn't been adjusted for this revolutionary new external design that is still on the iPhone 3 generations later despite some saying they will all be recalled, Apple will put the antenna back inside the device, and Apple was foolish to try something new in an industry they know nothing about. None of those things happened. AT showed that the iPhone 4 could not only hold a call but also make a call in areas that all other devices had no signal because the antenna was more sensitive to a lower dB because of the clever antenna design. Why ignore this part of their article?

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post #13 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They've sold, what, at least 60 M of these units. You think they all have cases on them? I used Bumpers at first to protect it but the Bumper wears out and I hated the bulk. Haven't had any case on it for about 1.5 years of the 2.25 years I've been using it. Dropped it plenty of times and it didn't break. Have made countless calls and didn't have to pinch the glass to keep the call from dropping.
Don't confuse a single being attenuated with a dropped call. Also don't confuse the dB rating as represented by bars as meaning a single isn't usable. Three bars doesn't mean you get a better call over 4 bars as it doesn't represent call quality or data throughput. As AnandTech clearly showed the bars representing the dB were way off, they hadn't been adjusted for this revolutionary new external design that is still on the iPhone 3 generations later despite some saying they will all be recalled, Apple will put the antenna back inside the device, and Apple was foolish to try something new in an industry they know nothing about. None of those things happened. AT showed that the iPhone 4 could not only hold a call but also make a call in areas that all other devices had no signal because the antenna was more sensitive to a lower dB because of the clever antenna design. Why ignore this part of their article?

In my wife's case, if she holds it in her palm for a minute or so, she eventually gets a "no signal" reading. Before it gets to that point, 3G speeds (when not connected to WiFi) slow to a crawl.

She uses a case full time with it and that solves the problem.
post #14 of 53
My phone definitely had problems. Independent tests are one thing, personal experience is another. Other 4s may have been less sensitive but the issue was real, although. It necessarily an issue with every phone.

I don't need a death grip to drop calls. Just about any touching the side caused issues. My home is also a weak area and the bars jump all over. Don't insult me to telling you my experience. I'm as pro-apple as it gets. I got their bumper and the issues were greatly reduced. Took it off and they come right back.

After 27 months, I'm ready for my iPhone 5.
post #15 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

In my wife's case, if she holds it in her palm for a minute or so, she eventually gets a "no signal" reading. Before it gets to that point, 3G speeds (when not connected to WiFi) slow to a crawl.
She uses a case full time with it and that solves the problem.

So if she holds her phone in a normal way her calls will drop because that is what no signal is, not a graphical element display as zero to four bars.

As I stated I've had the same iPhone 4 for 2.25 years without this issue. I didn't have a Bumper from the start because they weren't out yet. I got one ASAP to protect my device but after three wearing out and looking pretty gross after just a couple months I gave that up. My only issues with the iPhone 4 are my Home Button, a problem that appears to be much more widespread than any dramatized antenna problems, and that only seems to happen after a couple years of use, which I estimate to be in the millions of clicks, at least for me, on the Home Button.

If it's a conceptual flaw with the antenna being on the outside then why are the iPhone 4S and 5 both on the outside? Why didn't they recall them all instead of continuing to sell them? Note that the iPhone 4 is still being produced and sold as Apple's entry-level device. I'd have absolutely no problem telling someone to get an iPhone 4 if they were hell bent on not spending at least $99 up front for an iPhone (although the latest model always makes the most sense).

Are these dozens upon dozen of millions of users not being able to make any calls for over two years now? That surely doesn't sound reasonable to me.

I returned my iPhone 4S and went back to my iPhone 4 after 3 days last year because the baseband firmware issues that were draining the battery and Siri not being accessible with just a few million users was something I didn't want to deal with. Does that sound reasonable if my iPhone 4 couldn't make or hold any calls for the past year and my data would slow to a crawl just by holding my iPhone? I certainly don't think so.

I'm not saying your wife et al. didn't have issues with your CE — this is a part of all CE — but don't claim that the device was inherently flawed simply because some had an issue. I certainly think my iPhone 4S battery drain issues were the same for everyone. I contemplated replacing it but decided to just wait for a baseband update that finally came way too late for me to want to switch.

We like to think that these devices are all the same but that is far from the truth. Note the recent iPhone 5 video showing 725 tiny pieces of glass inlays that have micron differences being used for the back plate.

I can honestly say I've never been happier or used a phone for as long as I've used my iPhone 4.
Edited by SolipsismX - 9/18/12 at 6:55am

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post #16 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So if she holds her phone in a normal way her calls will drop because that is what no signal is, not a graphical element display as zero to four bars.
As I stated I've had the same iPhone 4 for 2.25 years without this issue. I didn't have a Bumper from the start because they weren't out yet. I got one ASAP to protect my device but after three wearing out and looking pretty gross after just a couple months I gave that up. My only issues with the iPhone 4 are my Home Button, a problem that appears to be much more widespread than any dramatized antenna problems, and that only seems to happen after a couple years of use, which I estimate to be in the millions of clicks, at least for me, on the Home Button.
If it's a conceptual flaw with the antenna being on the outside then why are the iPhone 4S and 5 both on the outside? Why didn't they recall them all instead of continuing to sell them? Note that the iPhone 4 is still being produced and sold as Apple's entry-level device. I'd have absolutely no problem telling someone to get an iPhone 4 if they were hell bent on not spending at least $99 up front for an iPhone (although the latest model always makes the most sense).
Are these dozens upon dozen of millions of users not being able to make any calls for over two years now? That surely doesn't sound reasonable to me.
I returned my iPhone 4S and went back to my iPhone 4 after 3 days last year because the baseband firmware issues that were draining the battery and Siri not being accessible with just a few million users was something I didn't want to deal with. Does that sound reasonable if my iPhone 4 couldn't make or hold any calls for the past year and my data would slow to a crawl just by holding my iPhone? I certainly don't think so.

 

I had the phone for a year before giving it to her when I got my iPhone 4S. YES, I would drop calls quite frequently when holding it without a case -- that was the reason why I bought a bumper case for it in the first place. However, I would more frequently have problems when holding it in my palm when browsing the web/using apps because the way I naturally hold the phone causes the signal to drop... eventually going down to "No Signal".

 

My wife would prefer to use her phone without a case, but once I gave her my iPhone 4, she had the same problems I did, and ended up using a bumper case as well.

 

You know, it's OK to admit that SOME people have legitimate problems.

post #17 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I had the phone for a year before giving it to her when I got my iPhone 4S. YES, I would drop calls quite frequently when holding it without a case -- that was the reason why I bought a bumper case for it in the first place.

I assume you realize that a dropped call can happen between your device, the connecting tower, all the interchange between networks and carriers, the receiver's tower and the receiver's device. Having made a career in networking you can't just say it's the first thing that comes to mind because it was in the paper and claim that is the culprit. In your case, it very well could be, but it's certainly not inherent to using an externally placed antenna for the reasons noted above.

Where is your evidence to say it's not any of the other things in the chain every time a call was dropped? I seem to recall AT&T being the most likely carrier for dropped calls well before the iPhone 4 was ever demoed but it's all the iPhone 4's fault? How that is objective or critical thinking?
Quote:
You know, it's OK to admit that SOME people have legitimate problems.

I covered that quite thoroughly.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I assume you realize that a dropped call can happen between your device, the connecting tower, all the interchange between networks and carriers, the receiver's tower and the receiver's device. Having made a career in networking you can't just say it's the first thing that comes to mind because it was in the paper and claim that is the culprit. In your case, it very well could be, but it's certainly not inherent to using an externally placed antenna for the reasons noted above.
Where is your evidence to say it's not any of the other things in the chain every time a call was dropped? I seem to recall AT&T being the most likely carrier for dropped calls well before the iPhone 4 was ever demoed but it's all the iPhone 4's fault? How that is objective or critical thinking?
I covered that quite thoroughly.

Goodness gracious, I feel like I'm arguing with a wall. I said that I had problems with dropped calls without using a case. After using a case, they were a rarity.

 

I also said that I had the MOST problems simply holding the phone in my palm one-handed when browsing the web. That has nothing to do with dropped calls, and simply with the position of my palm with relation to the antennas. Open palm, strong signal 3G works perfectly. Grip the phone like I normally would to secure the phone, and internet speeds slow to a crawl and then eventually get "No Signal". Go back to an open palm and all is well again.

 

If I use a case, I have no problems in any situation.

 

I don't know how else to explain it to you. 

post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I assume you realize that a dropped call can happen between your device, the connecting tower, all the interchange between networks and carriers, the receiver's tower and the receiver's device. Having made a career in networking you can't just say it's the first thing that comes to mind because it was in the paper and claim that is the culprit. In your case, it very well could be, but it's certainly not inherent to using an externally placed antenna for the reasons noted above.
Where is your evidence to say it's not any of the other things in the chain every time a call was dropped? I seem to recall AT&T being the most likely carrier for dropped calls well before the iPhone 4 was ever demoed but it's all the iPhone 4's fault? How that is objective or critical thinking?
I covered that quite thoroughly.

 

Hmm. Talking as a network engineer here: The most common case for dropping a call in a decently designed network is: Handover from tower or controller to another failing for one reason or another (one reason being a quickly degrading signal). What causes a handover? A signal strength degradation below certain thresholds. So yes, signal degradation is the most common reason for a dropped call. To imply that the reason for a dropped call can often be something else than signal quality degradation, while true,  is not very likely. Especially in (W)CDMA based networks, where the availability of codes or timeslots (in GSM) is not really an issue.

 

Of course if you are very unlucky and happen to live at an edge between two different switches, then problems with switches could be a problem, but would not explain why a certain phone model experiences more drops than another.

 

Personally I'm using a 4 and did buy a case for added protection and grip (no slippery glass in the back), but it also did reduce my dropped call rate to virtually nil. Same with my brother-in-law. So should I claim that since I and my brother-in-law experienced problems, the problem is evident with everyone? It's the same as some people claiming: "I didn't experience any problems -> There can be no problems". I'd say it is clear, that the antenna can get detuned, which causes signal attenuation. Then it's more a matter of where you are. If the network is good enough, no problem, bad network->problem. This doesn't mean that the antennae is not sensitive.. It could be the most sensitive antenna in the market and still give a bad user experience, when a user notices that "holding it wrong" causes a call drop, which might have been dropped earlier had the design been different.

post #20 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So if she holds her phone in a normal way her calls will drop because that is what no signal is, not a graphical element display as zero to four bars.
As I stated I've had the same iPhone 4 for 2.25 years without this issue. I didn't have a Bumper from the start because they weren't out yet. I got one ASAP to protect my device but after three wearing out and looking pretty gross after just a couple months I gave that up. My only issues with the iPhone 4 are my Home Button, a problem that appears to be much more widespread than any dramatized antenna problems, and that only seems to happen after a couple years of use, which I estimate to be in the millions of clicks, at least for me, on the Home Button.
If it's a conceptual flaw with the antenna being on the outside then why are the iPhone 4S and 5 both on the outside? Why didn't they recall them all instead of continuing to sell them? Note that the iPhone 4 is still being produced and sold as Apple's entry-level device. I'd have absolutely no problem telling someone to get an iPhone 4 if they were hell bent on not spending at least $99 up front for an iPhone (although the latest model always makes the most sense).
Are these dozens upon dozen of millions of users not being able to make any calls for over two years now? That surely doesn't sound reasonable to me.
I returned my iPhone 4S and went back to my iPhone 4 after 3 days last year because the baseband firmware issues that were draining the battery and Siri not being accessible with just a few million users was something I didn't want to deal with. Does that sound reasonable if my iPhone 4 couldn't make or hold any calls for the past year and my data would slow to a crawl just by holding my iPhone? I certainly don't think so.
I'm not saying your wife et al. didn't have issues with your CE — this is a part of all CE — but don't claim that the device was inherently flawed simply because some had an issue. I certainly think my iPhone 4S battery drain issues were the same for everyone. I contemplated replacing it but decided to just wait for a baseband update that finally came way too late for me to want to switch.
We like to think that these devices are all the same but that is far from the truth. Note the recent iPhone 5 video showing 725 tiny pieces of glass inlays that have micron differences being used for the back plate.
I can honestly say I've never been happier or used a phone for as long as I've used my iPhone 4.


I've had my 4 as long as you have and I can echo pretty much everything you said. Especially about the home button which seems to either not register a press or register multiple presses depending on the mood it's in

post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

 

Personally I'm using a 4 and did buy a case for added protection and grip (no slippery glass in the back), but it also did reduce my dropped call rate to virtually nil. Same with my brother-in-law. So should I claim that since I and my brother-in-law experienced problems, the problem is evident with everyone? It's the same as some people claiming: "I didn't experience any problems -> There can be no problems". I'd say it is clear, that the antenna can get detuned, which causes signal attenuation. Then it's more a matter of where you are. If the network is good enough, no problem, bad network->problem. This doesn't mean that the antennae is not sensitive.. It could be the most sensitive antenna in the market and still give a bad user experience, when a user notices that "holding it wrong" causes a call drop, which might have been dropped earlier had the design been different.

 

And that's all I'm saying. Can he not even entertain the possibility that not everyone's experiences are exactly the same?

 

I'm not saying that everyone is having a problem, or that everyone is having a perfect life with iPhone 4 reception. We've just found in our case that there is a clear problem. It just infuriates me when people try to talk down to you and make you seem like you're crazy because "I don't have a problem so THERE IS NO PROBLEM" or "I'm an expert; I'm right, YOU'RE WRONG."

 

Now whereas as my wife's iPhone 4 is hit or miss without a case, my iPhone 4S gets excellent reception without a case in any condition and rarely ever drops a call. And I can cup the device in my hand when surfing the web without 3G performance taking a nosedive.

post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I assume you realize that a dropped call can happen between your device, the connecting tower, all the interchange between networks and carriers, the receiver's tower and the receiver's device. Having made a career in networking you can't just say it's the first thing that comes to mind because it was in the paper and claim that is the culprit. In your case, it very well could be, but it's certainly not inherent to using an externally placed antenna for the reasons noted above.
Where is your evidence to say it's not any of the other things in the chain every time a call was dropped? I seem to recall AT&T being the most likely carrier for dropped calls well before the iPhone 4 was ever demoed but it's all the iPhone 4's fault? How that is objective or critical thinking?

 

It's pretty simple. Finger on iPhone 4, it cuts out. Take finger off, you can call again.

 

Finger on, 3G slows or stalls. Finger off, 3G transmits as normal again.

 

Repeat ad nauseam.

 

I do doubt that my finger was causing disruption to the interchange between networks and carriers.

 

Not just my model. Not just my carrier. Every one of them in my local Apple Store did the same. Connected to all the UK carriers: Orange, O2, T-Mobile, Vodafone, Three. I went along the line touching them, and watched the bars fall.

 

iPhone 4 - the worst Apple product I've ever owned (and I've had many, I'm a die-hard fan).

 

iPhone 4S - the best so far. They fixed it.

post #23 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If it's a conceptual flaw with the antenna being on the outside then why are the iPhone 4S and 5 both on the outside? 

 

Because both the 4S and 5 have a different antenna arrangement from the GSM 4. The 4S uses two separate GSM antennas, which mitigates the issue. The 5 presumably has some other solution entirely.

 

It's not a conceptual flaw with an external antenna - it was an implementation issue.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why didn't they recall them all instead of continuing to sell them? 
 

Because a total recall would have cost loads of money, as well as generating horrific PR. You don't do a total recall unless the product is either dangerous or essentially unusable. It was easier to assuage the relatively small proportion of buyers who complained to Apple with a bumper.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yes, that's what all the whiners and media whores say.

 

Why is it 'whining' to complain if you buy a phone which loses signal when you hold it the 'wrong' way? Do you seriously think that all the people who reported this issue were just making it up because they wanted media attention or just liked moaning?

 

I don't see how you can possibly refute the countless videos of the phone losing reception which have been posted on the internet, through any strategy other than wilful ignorance.

post #24 of 53

Thanks for that title, AI. That was really necessary to bring up that blatant lie all over again for absolutely no reason.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #25 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

 

... wilful ignorance.

Bingo.

(see post directly above)

post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They've sold, what, at least 60 M of these units. You think they all have cases on them? I used Bumpers at first to protect it but the Bumper wears out and I hated the bulk. Haven't had any case on it for about 1.5 years of the 2.25 years I've been using it. Dropped it plenty of times and it didn't break. Have made countless calls and didn't have to pinch the glass to keep the call from dropping.
Don't confuse a single being attenuated with a dropped call. Also don't confuse the dB rating as represented by bars as meaning a single isn't usable. Three bars doesn't mean you get a better call over 4 bars as it doesn't represent call quality or data throughput. As AnandTech clearly showed the bars representing the dB were way off, they hadn't been adjusted for this revolutionary new external design that is still on the iPhone 3 generations later despite some saying they will all be recalled, Apple will put the antenna back inside the device, and Apple was foolish to try something new in an industry they know nothing about. None of those things happened. AT showed that the iPhone 4 could not only hold a call but also make a call in areas that all other devices had no signal because the antenna was more sensitive to a lower dB because of the clever antenna design. Why ignore this part of their article?

The number of bars does seem to be significant for me. Anything less than three and I can't expect to get any data through on EDGE or 3G, in any locale. A little bit of data comes through, but it's unreliable and it takes minutes to give up. At 3 bars, it's usually fine.
post #27 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

 

It's pretty simple. Finger on iPhone 4, it cuts out. Take finger off, you can call again.

 

Finger on, 3G slows or stalls. Finger off, 3G transmits as normal again.

 

Repeat ad nauseam.

 

I do doubt that my finger was causing disruption to the interchange between networks and carriers.

 

Not just my model. Not just my carrier. Every one of them in my local Apple Store did the same. Connected to all the UK carriers: Orange, O2, T-Mobile, Vodafone, Three. I went along the line touching them, and watched the bars fall.

 

iPhone 4 - the worst Apple product I've ever owned (and I've had many, I'm a die-hard fan).

 

iPhone 4S - the best so far. They fixed it.

Yup, just did another test with my wife's iPhone 4.

 

 

WiFi off, 3G on, sitting in an open palm

 

 

 

 

 

WiFi off, 3G on, me holding it in my hand (it wouldn't even finish the test, and after about 30 seconds went from "Searching" to "No Signal")

 

 

post #28 of 53
Originally Posted by Habanero View Post
Bingo.

(see post directly above)

 

lol, yeah, it was a real problem. Consumer Reports even said so!

😒

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #29 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

 

  

 

 My wife's iPhone 4, open palm vs my wife's iPhone 4 with death grip (signal drops)

 

 

   

 

My iPhone 4s with open palm vs my iPhone 4S with death grip (no changes in signal)

Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing. In the iPhone4 photo you have your thumb on the opposing side of where you fingers are and the fingers show me that you are squeezing it rather hard, from the looks of it, but in the iPhone 4s photo your thumb is at the top and your top finger looks to be elevated off of the phone completely. I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?

See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #30 of 53
Originally Posted by new bee View Post
…so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing.

 

Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing. In the iPhone4 photo you have your thumb on the opposing side of where you fingers are and the fingers show me that you are squeezing it rather hard, from the looks of it, but in the iPhone 4s photo your thumb is at the top and your top finger looks to be elevated off of the phone completely. I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?

 

WOW, LET ME DO THIS AGAIN... I'll make sure that every single thing lines up and that the hairs on arms are in alignment lol.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And why would I have an agenda? I seriously don't get this need to demonize posters. WTF? 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Imagine that.

 

Seriously? Really?

post #32 of 53
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Seriously? Really?

 

When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.

 

I honestly just don't know how to respond to this. 

 

Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.

 

I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.

post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

 

And that's all I'm saying. Can he not even entertain the possibility that not everyone's experiences are exactly the same?

 

I'm not saying that everyone is having a problem, or that everyone is having a perfect life with iPhone 4 reception. We've just found in our case that there is a clear problem. It just infuriates me when people try to talk down to you and make you seem like you're crazy because "I don't have a problem so THERE IS NO PROBLEM" or "I'm an expert; I'm right, YOU'RE WRONG."

 

Now whereas as my wife's iPhone 4 is hit or miss without a case, my iPhone 4S gets excellent reception without a case in any condition and rarely ever drops a call. And I can cup the device in my hand when surfing the web without 3G performance taking a nosedive.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars.... I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?

 

In his previous post he said his iphone4s gets excellent reception.  What agenda can he possibly have except for reporting balanced & truthful information?

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

 

I honestly just don't know how to respond to this. 

 

Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.

 

I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.

 

It's dumbfounding, isn't it?

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I honestly just don't know how to respond to this. 

Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.

I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.

And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.

ANY phone can suffer signal degradation under some circumstances such as cupping the phone in your hand. The iPhone is not dramatically different than the rest of the industry. Part of the problem is that the iPhone is more sensitive and was able to make phone calls in marginal areas where other phones might not have connected in the first place (see Anand's review of the issue).

In the end, the behavior happens with all phones to a greater or lesser degree. In the case of the iPhone, if you happen to be one of the ones affected, a simple bumper largely fixes the problem. And Apple even gave users a free bumper at the time the problem was happening. If, OTOH, you are using a different phone, a bumper doesn't fix it.

So it's largely a non-issue for Apple.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.

 

 

If it's not a problem with the phone, then why did Steve Jobs say "Just don't hold it that way"?

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
 

 

How many other phones can lose phone capability with just a pinkie touch?

 

 

 

Mazda 3s, can you show us what a pinkie can do to your phones? Thanks.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
ANY phone can suffer signal degradation under some circumstances such as cupping the phone in your hand. The iPhone is not dramatically different than the rest of the industry. Part of the problem is that the iPhone is more sensitive and was able to make phone calls in marginal areas where other phones might not have connected in the first place (see Anand's review of the issue).
In the end, the behavior happens with all phones to a greater or lesser degree. In the case of the iPhone, if you happen to be one of the ones affected, a simple bumper largely fixes the problem. And Apple even gave users a free bumper at the time the problem was happening. If, OTOH, you are using a different phone, a bumper doesn't fix it.
So it's largely a non-issue for Apple.

 

But I'm not talking about other phones. I'm talking about the only smartphones I've ever used: iPhones.

 

I've had an iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and iPhone 4S (and soon to be iPhone 5). The iPhone 4 was the only one to have problems with dropped calls, or signal degradation to the point of losing 3G internet connectivity when holding it in my hand.

 

Again, as I said. I'm not really upset, nor does it really bother me in the end. My wife has a bumper case that alleviates the problem. I just get a little annoyed when people dismiss the underlying issue outright.

post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

 

Mazda 3s, can you show us what a pinkie can do to your phones? Thanks.

 

Gotta feed the baby, but here's my wife's phone with a pinky:

 

 

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