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Apple granted patent for iPhone 4 'antennagate' antenna design - Page 2

post #41 of 53
This is a thread where I think I am stupid not to shoot a video when I got iPhone 4 for my wife. It could be fun when this old myth surfaced again. The first thing I do is sqeezing it real hard the way I saw people do in YouTube. Nothing happned. The best I got after several tries was one bar dropped. So much for the mighty death grip. Funny I got dropped calls all the time with bumper on because my carrier is shit.
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

How NOT to design an antenna. My iP4 has the shittiest reception and most sensitive design of any phone. Touch it and it drops a call. Without a bumper, it's pretty bad.

 

I think what you are looking at is the "improvement" on that initial problematic design. It mentions a "tuning" of the field to accommodate external changes like hands moving over the antennae.

 

It seems simple at first, but it's all about making an adaptive field antenna work in real world conditions.

post #43 of 53
1. with or without a bumper, my 4 does drop calls, on occasion. But does it? The phone simply drops the call, makes the lock sound and when I 'remove it from my ear' and look at it the display goes from blank (black) to it's default 'slide to unlock'. Did it then drop the call, or did it something else, a software screw up or somesuch happened just there?

2. does anyone know what can be read from a Field Test (dial *3001#12345#*)? It displays various info, amongst others it displays -80 or -96 or whatever where the signal bars usually are.

post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Because both the 4S and 5 have a different antenna arrangement from the GSM 4. The 4S uses two separate GSM antennas, which mitigates the issue. The 5 presumably has some other solution entirely.

What do you mean by "some other solution entirely"? It's the exact same set up with an external antenna the two previous generations of iPhone.
Quote:
It's not a conceptual flaw with an external antenna - it was an implementation issue.

Read the original complaints about "antennagate." All the complaints were about Apple thinking they are better than every other cellphone vendor in the industry by creating an external antenna that also acts as the frame of the device. Even the cellular vendors were chiming int that "fact". I bet if you walk into a Verizon store you'll hear some CSR echo it today.
Quote:
Because a total recall would have cost loads of money, as well as generating horrific PR. You don't do a total recall unless the product is either dangerous or essentially unusable. It was easier to assuage the relatively small proportion of buyers who complained to Apple with a bumper.

From when this foolishness started to even today, in this very thread, the complaints are that they can't hold a call or even recieve data when the phone is held. How is that not "essentially unusable." To me that seems like a knock out exempli gratia. As I said 2.25 years ago, if you have a device that is having issues return it for your money or a new device. Not everything works exactly the same simply because they come from the same factory. i've certainly shown I'm willing to do that on more than one occasion with my Apple kit.
Quote:
Why is it 'whining' to complain if you buy a phone which loses signal when you hold it the 'wrong' way? Do you seriously think that all the people who reported this issue were just making it up because they wanted media attention or just liked moaning?

I still remember many, many years ago a guy calling up tech support pissed that his machine wasn't working (again). Turns out he left a non-bootable floppy disc in the A: drive. Looking at his ticket history all his issues were ID10T errors. So, yes, I do think people like to blame others and/or blame something as matter of fact without considering other reasons that the issue could arise.
Quote:
I don't see how you can possibly refute the countless videos of the phone losing reception which have been posted on the internet, through any strategy other than wilful ignorance.

You mean countless videos of many phones from many vendors attenuating the signal when fingers block a signal? Yep, seen them. Have you not read how the iPhone 4 was able to make and hold a call at a much lower dB than any other phone tested by AT so even when the bars were null it would still work just fine?

Apple's problem with the iPhone 4 was not adjusting what the bars represent in dB. They kept the model that worked for less advanced,plastic phones with internal antennas. They aren't as sensitive to signal because they are inside, which has both pros and cons (see previous paragraph).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The number of bars does seem to be significant for me. Anything less than three and I can't expect to get any data through on EDGE or 3G, in any locale. A little bit of data comes through, but it's unreliable and it takes minutes to give up. At 3 bars, it's usually fine.

With AT&T I can have full bars — which is what I usually have — and still not have any data. I haven't experienced this with my Verizon iPad but I also never check that. My biggest complaint with it is how un-Apple-like it is to have to toggle Personal Hotspot on/off to get my Mac to see it again in WiFI, but that's likely an iOS issue.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You mean countless videos of many phones from many vendors attenuating the signal when fingers block a signal? Yep, seen them. Have you not read how the iPhone 4 was able to make and hold a call at a much lower dB than any other phone tested by AT so even when the bars were null it would still work just fine?
Apple's problem with the iPhone 4 was not adjusting what the bars represent in dB. They kept the model that worked for less advanced,plastic phones with internal antennas. They aren't as sensitive to signal because they are inside, which has both pros and cons (see previous paragraph).

 

Blocking and detuning are two different issues, with a similar end result. People understand blocking an antenna much easier than a "pinky"-detuning. That's where I think the problem lies and users get a perception that the product is inferior due to the fact that just placing a single finger in the wrong place, causes signal degradation, whereas in a "death grip", you have to cusp the whole antenna assembly in an unnatural manner (often with your whole palm) to get the same effect.

 

So even if the iP4 holds a call at lower real dBm (not necessarily the display shown by test mode on the devices themselves) than a competing Android phone, the user perception is worse since you seldom have two different phones to compare when the call drops. Basically in other phones, the call drops in the same location regardless of how you hold the phone (assuming a natural hold). With the affected iP4s, the call drops in a location depending on how you hold the phone. The consumer will not test "will my iP4 held wrong make a call in the same location that the other phone fails?" That's where the perception problem comes in. With the competition, the perception easily becomes "crappy network", with the affected iP4s, the experience becomes "bad design" if the user notices the effect of the pinky finger (which most probably won't).

 

When Apple published the death grip pictures, which clearly showed a different issue (Attenuation via blocking the radio path vs. detuning an antenna by a simple finger touch), many people cried foul - rightfully so, because there were two different issues at play. Apple could instead have done the measurements and shown a video that a detuned iP4 holds a call and data rate when the competitors phone doesn't without the death grip. Problem solved ->Superior design, because even holding it wrong gives better results. Instead they showed two different things that result in the same effect assuming that the public would be fooled and not understand the difference. Seems it worked for the majority so a PR success?

post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.

Where does that 99.6% "not affected"-figure people here quote come from? The fact that only 0.4% complained or returned directly to Apple? If so, that wouldn't account to people who a) just keep going and continue being annoyed b) people who complain that the network is the cause, c) people who go and buy a case to solve the problem d) people that just return the phone and state just general dissatisfaction. I just have a hard time believing a sub 1% figure from experience with friends and colleagues. In my circles that figure is in double digits and all have bought cases and reported - no problems anymore. That said, a case gives many other benefits in addition to the fix it provides for this problem so I really don't experience the issue anymore and I just enjoy the device just like my friends and colleagues do.


Edited by jahonen - 9/18/12 at 11:07pm
post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Where does that 99.6% "not affected"-figure people here quote come from?

 

It's most likely a made up number, a lie. Let's see how long it takes him to provide reasonably credible proof.

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #48 of 53
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
It's most likely a made up number, a lie. Let's see how long it takes him to provide reasonably credible proof.

 

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 

Thanks for that. That video didn't say anything about the 0.4% rate (0,55% and 1.7%). Also if you think about my examples, they are quite plausible reasons why the real numbers are likely higher. Also remember that AppleCare doesn't apply to the iPhone in many countries. So it seems clear, that the real number is probably not big, but significantly bigger than your original assertion of 0.4%. 

post #50 of 53

Steve Jobs has got to be the most deceitful person in corporate history. Who can trust anything he says?

 

Insults customers by telling them "Just don't hold it that way".

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #51 of 53
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Steve Jobs has got to be the most deceitful person in corporate history. Who can trust anything he says?

 

We have a character limit in posts here, otherwise I'd go ahead and list the multiple thousands of people in history more deceitful than Steve. If you cared at all about factual accuracy, you'd know that you're lying and would have easily been able to find worse businesspeople, but it's quite apparent that you don't.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Steve Jobs has got to be the most deceitful person in corporate history. Who can trust anything he says?
...

Most of your examples are totally tangential to the story, so no bueno. I left in the ONE example that applies to this story. And that wasn't an example of a lie, so it didn't actually back up your point.

The one remark I didn't like is something like "we put that mark there to tell people not to touch that spot". I'm thinking, really? I found no such documentation that said that.
Edited by JeffDM - 9/20/12 at 11:34am
post #53 of 53
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post
I left in the ONE example that applies to this story.

 

Even if it was an error that Huddler ate his post, I like that it appears you left no examples in. lol.gif

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
Reply

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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