or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › US ITC to investigate Apple's products in response to Motorola complaint
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

US ITC to investigate Apple's products in response to Motorola complaint

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
The U.S. International Trade Commission announced on Tuesday that it has voted to investigate Apple's lineup of products, including the iPhone, iPad and Macs, in response to a complaint lodged by Google-owned Motorola Mobility.

Motorola has alleged that Apple's products violate section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930. The handset maker hopes the ITC will block the importation of Apple's devices that Motorola believes infringe upon its patented inventions.

The ITC's decision to investigate is not an indication of a future ruling for or against Apple. The commission frequently elects to investigate patent infringement complaints filed by major corporations.

The ITC said Tuesday that its determination will come at the "earliest practicable time." A target date for completion will be set within 45 days after the investigation begins.

Motorola filed its latest lawsuit against Apple with the ITC last month. The suit accuses Apple of infringing upon seven Motorola Mobility patents related to features such as location reminders, e-mail notifications, and video playback functionality.

"We would like to settle these patent matters, but Apple?s unwillingness to work out a license leaves us little choice but to defend ourselves and our engineers? innovations," Motorola said in a statement issued in August.

As patent infringement claims continue to grow in the mobile phone market, the ITC has been very busy with complaints relating to Apple and its rivals. Just last week, an ITC judge ruled that Apple did not infringe upon patents owned by Samsung.
post #2 of 37
Yeah, a import block just screams 'We want to work out an agreement'
post #3 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The U.S. International Trade Commission announced on Tuesday that it has voted to investigate Apple's lineup of products, including the iPhone, iPad and Macs, in response to a complaint lodged by Google-owned Motorola Mobility...

 

... the official litigation subsidiary of Google. In an effort to avoid having its own name associated with lawsuits filed by it, Google recently acquired Motorola Mobility for $12.5 Billion to use a front for legal actions.

post #4 of 37
Let's see if Google got its money's worth out of Motorola Patent War Division...

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #5 of 37

It's tit for tat.  How often does Apple offer to work out agreements with competitors?

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #6 of 37
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
It's tit for tat.

 

It's not in the slightest.


How often does Apple offer to work out agreements with competitors?

 

Very, if not always. Even Samsung got offers before lawsuits.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #7 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

It's tit for tat.  How often does Apple offer to work out agreements with competitors?

It's not, and they do often. Actually Apple and Moto have an agreement in Germany.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
Reply
I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
Reply
post #8 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

It's not, and they do often. Actually Apple and Moto have an agreement in Germany.

Was that not after the German courts had ruled against Apple for the push email?

post #9 of 37
I am so sick of all these lawsuits and want to boycott any company involved. Problem is that I would need a very long cord for my land line.
post #10 of 37
Originally Posted by mugsz View Post
I am so sick of all these lawsuits and want to boycott any company involved. Problem is that I would need a very long cord for my land line.

 

I am so sick of people who know nothing about what is going on and think their "boycotts" mean anything beyond self-shorting.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #11 of 37
Hello Moto This is terrifying news for consumers of the best products. Courts must not allow Apple products to be banned under any circumstances. I cannot believe they are even allowing this investigation. I'm outraged.
post #12 of 37
``"We would like to settle these patent matters, but Apple’s unwillingness to work out a license leaves us little choice but to defend ourselves and our engineers’ innovations," Motorola said in a statement issued in August.''

Sorry Google. It will never happen.
post #13 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

... the official litigation subsidiary of Google. In an effort to avoid having its own name associated with lawsuits filed by it, Google recently acquired Motorola Mobility for $12.5 Billion to use a front for legal actions.

 

It's just that Motorola owns the patents AND is a manufacturer.  Without Motorola, Google would have no leverage.  Purchasing up an OEM was the only possible route they had when it came to 'defending' Android.

post #14 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Motorola filed its latest lawsuit against Apple with the ITC last month. The suit accuses Apple of infringing upon seven Motorola Mobility patents related to features such as location reminders, e-mail notifications, and video playback functionality..

And how many of those are FRAND?

And of the FRAND patents, how many have you actually offered fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms?

And how many of the patents are already exhausted due to component suppliers paying you royalties?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

...

 

Very, if not always. Even Samsung got offers before lawsuits.

I think these "offers" are disingenuous both ways. Google may propose something that Apple will never accept. Apple may propose something that Samsung will never accept (and couldn't even counter because it would acknowledge guilt). Means nothing, but sounds nice in a later court action.

Cubist
Reply
Cubist
Reply
post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

I think these "offers" are disingenuous both ways. Google may propose something that Apple will never accept. Apple may propose something that Samsung will never accept (and couldn't even counter because it would acknowledge guilt). Means nothing, but sounds nice in a later court action.

Then how do you explain that Apple's proposed licensing agreement was OK with Microsoft if it was so unfair and never meant to be accepted?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

It's tit for tat.  How often does Apple offer to work out agreements with competitors?

 

When laws require them to. Often, more often than not in fact, the items being infringed are not SEP and therefore are not under FRAND rules so Apple doesn't have to license them. And they don't. But they will sue if the other side uses it. When it is the case that it is something owned by the other side, they will license it from that side under the legally allowed terms if they are using or want to use the legally specified tech. But they will not allow themselves to be bent over with games such as charging insanely high prices because "Apple can afford it" when it is legally prohibited, double dipping etc. 

 

In the end this means nothing. The ITC is avoiding claims of bias by announcing they will investigate. They will do it and discover that Apple isn't using Moto's patents to achieve the same idea (which isn't protected under IP law) and dismiss the complaint. Or that it is a FRAND issue, there is patent exhaustion, etc and dismiss the complaint. All by the book. Happens probably a dozen times a week but the other 11 times don't get press because the companies aren't the guaranteed fodder for hit whoring blogs etc

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #18 of 37
Motorola may have a case, but Apple may also have a plausible defense, as something unexpected came to light recently about patent law in the US that can invalidate many of these patents because they patent the result rather than the method. If there's a company with enough muscle to cause a reform to the patent system, Apple would be that company. The only question is: is that in their interest?
post #19 of 37

Well we've clearly seen that Apple seems to be pretty good at getting patents for things they use. Motorola's patents may be similar to the techniques but I'm sure Apple has their own patents for whatever isn't FRAND.

post #20 of 37

K.

 

Another attempt by Google to convince themselves and everyone else that this $12 billion white elephant was actually worth it. 

 

So, in essence, $12 billion for a complaint against Apple. 

 

Smooth, Google. Very smooth. 

post #21 of 37
I don't know if this is fitting here or not, but just watched the video on the BBC of the new Motorola RAZR with an Intel chip.

Doesn't look half bad really... and could chop away at Google's OEMs products i.e. HTC 1 and SIII.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
post #22 of 37

Do you have a patent law degree? Didn't think so. Therefore, your opinion caries no more validity than anyone else's on here. Try to process that before you post.


Now....


I believe that the entire system is terribly broken. And I'm not the only one that believes this.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack


Apple is turning into the Big Brother figure they rebelled against in their own 1984 commercial.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I am so sick of people who know nothing about what is going on and think their "boycotts" mean anything beyond self-shorting.

post #23 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I am so sick of people who know nothing about what is going on and think their "boycotts" mean anything beyond self-shorting.

haha. agreed 100%.

post #24 of 37

This is Google ....

 

DO they have no shame.

post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Do you have a patent law degree? Didn't think so. Therefore, your opinion caries no more validity than anyone else's on here. Try to process that before you post.

Now....

I believe that the entire system is terribly broken. And I'm not the only one that believes this.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack

Apple is turning into the Big Brother figure they rebelled against in their own 1984 commercial.

Yeah, how dare they innovate and then want to protect their innovations from copycat competitors like Samsung?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #26 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Do you have a patent law degree? Didn't think so. Therefore, your opinion caries no more validity than anyone else's on here.

 

 

You also don't need an astrophysics degree to know that sun comes up once a day...

Many of the people who comment on here perhaps don't have law degrees, but they sure are not stupid. They know the technologies, and the companies involved well enough to have an informed opinion.

Infact I would question the ability of many a judge to make the right decision due to the technical complexities involved. Would Posner have a degree in the technologies he presides over? I doubt it. Does he need to? In my opinion, yes.

I personally do not have a single degree in anything, but then nor did Steve Jobs.


Edited by monstrosity - 9/18/12 at 2:17pm
post #27 of 37
Did either of you two listen to the podcast link I gave?

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack

Of course not. Because just like the republicans say, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And we're not going to let fact checking get in the way."

"You also don't need an astrophysics degree to know that sun comes up once a day..." is a worthless clichéd analogy. Obviously patent law is more complicated than knowing the sun rises in the east and settles in the west.

Like I said, the patent system is broken and Apple is taking advantage of that fact to try and kill their only worthy competitor. You know who else engaged in this type of behavior back in the 90s? That's right, Microsoft. Now Apple is the monopolistic bully trying to stifle competition. It's one reason why I'm ditching my iPhone for Windows Phone. Can't stand the behavior or lack of innovation.
post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

...

Like I said, the patent system is broken and Apple is taking advantage of that fact to try and kill their only worthy competitor. You know who else engaged in this type of behavior back in the 90s? That's right, Microsoft. Now Apple is the monopolistic bully trying to stifle competition. It's one reason why I'm ditching my iPhone for Windows Phone. Can't stand the behavior or lack of innovation.

Based on your comment Samsung is Apple's only worthy competitor so you are going to ditch your iPhone and buy a Windows Phone. Somehow you buying a phone from a lesser competitor is supposed to teach Apple a lesson? Your logic is very flawed and your leaving Apple won't be noticed or missed.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Like I said, the patent system is broken and Apple is taking advantage of that fact to try and kill their only worthy competitor. You know who else engaged in this type of behavior back in the 90s? That's right, Microsoft. Now Apple is the monopolistic bully trying to stifle competition. It's one reason why I'm ditching my iPhone for Windows Phone. Can't stand the behavior or lack of innovation.

 

This sentence alone suggests you know little about Apple or the patent system. Apple are not 'bullying', nor stifling competition, they are merely trying to stop copycat devices. 

Microsoft has shown that you can create a device which is not a carbon copy of Apples IP, and the IP they do use they license (and vice versa). Google/Motorola do not, they blatantly copy, this is as clear to anyone with half a brain, as clear as the sun rising.

 

By the way, I may not have a law 'degree' but I have read 2 inch thick books on Copyright, Patents and Business Law along with 30 years IT experience and various inventions of my own.

 

The patent system may not be perfect, but don't believe the Google propaganda. A world without IP protection stifles innovation. No reward = no innovation.


Edited by monstrosity - 9/18/12 at 5:48pm
post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And how many of those are FRAND?
And of the FRAND patents, how many have you actually offered fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms?
And how many of the patents are already exhausted due to component suppliers paying you royalties?

And if you actually bothered to read, it has been stated that none are FRAND or SEP so no Motorola has the right to sue and did offer as they have stated to license.  Apple is not known for their generosity when it comes to licensing patents and their "fair and reasonable" offer to Samsung was received as unfair and unreasonable.

 

Perhaps the USPTO should pull their collective heads out of their arses and actually do something about the screwed up process, then we would see real innovation and real inventions get patented rather than some graphical effect.  I say this to all patent holders not Apple, not Samsung, but every lame software related patent holder.

post #31 of 37
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post
Do you have a patent law degree? Didn't think so. Therefore, your opinion caries no more validity than anyone else's on here. Try to process that before you post.
 

 

So you're saying that no one should listen to you because your opinion is meaningless.

 

Now....


I believe that the entire system is terribly broken. And I'm not the only one that believes this.

 

You're certainly not the only one to copy and paste this useless waste of bytes, that's for sure.

 

 

Apple is turning into the Big Brother figure they rebelled against in their own 1984 commercial.

 

Thanks, you just gave me #45! Only a few more to fill out the spots I've set aside!


Originally Posted by RaptorOO7 View Post
And if you actually bothered to read, it has been stated that none are FRAND or SEP so no Motorola has the right to sue and did offer as they have stated to license.  Apple is not known for their generosity when it comes to licensing patents and their "fair and reasonable" offer to Samsung was received as unfair and unreasonable.

 

None of Apple's patents were declared to be FRAND. Nothing had to be fair or reasonable. If Samsung wants to use the technologies behind them, since the patents are not standards, Samsung either pays what Apple wants or doesn't get to legally use them.

 

They chose the latter. And paid for it.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #32 of 37

How sad that Motorla and google are afraid of competition that they have to sue apple. If they could just innovate their own stuff then they wouldn't have to resort to this sillyness. Google really has become big brother, I will never buy an android device or support google or motorla in anyway because they cannot compete in the industry without suing their competition.

 

Pretty pathetic of google.

post #33 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Did either of you two listen to the podcast link I gave?

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack


Of course not. Because just like the republicans say, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And we're not going to let fact checking get in the way."


"You also don't need an astrophysics degree to know that sun comes up once a day..." is a worthless clichéd analogy. Obviously patent law is more complicated than knowing the sun rises in the east and settles in the west.


Like I said, the patent system is broken and Apple is taking advantage of that fact to try and kill their only worthy competitor. You know who else engaged in this type of behavior back in the 90s? That's right, Microsoft. Now Apple is the monopolistic bully trying to stifle competition. It's one reason why I'm ditching my iPhone for Windows Phone. Can't stand the behavior or lack of innovation.

This guy doesn't have a clue. I have been in manufacturing for 25 years and I have seen what has happened to companies believing that low labor costs would increase profits. So, they setup manufacturing in China and within a year a Chinese company copies the product and process without shame. They then become their competitor, robbing them of their IP and profits.
This is the exact same thing!!!!! You can buy iPhone, iPod and iPad knockoffs throughout Asia for a fraction of the price. Don't kid yourself this was a complete ripoff from the start. Look at their packaging it's pathetic that they can't even come up with that!

This has happened to countless American companies, so you may believe that just because I am boycotting the Korean company Samsung that it won't have an effect, I think you are wrong! My family no longer buys Samsung, my friends don't buy Samsung and I hope to convince everyone that I do business with to stop buying Samsung.
post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post


Of course not. Because just like the republicans say, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And we're not going to let fact checking get in the way."

 

Really?   I'm surprised, usually there's also a Fox News reference in there somewhere as well.  Please keep your political views, however misguided they may be, to yourself.

post #35 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Like I said, the patent system is broken and Apple is taking advantage of the patent laws in place that fact to try and kill their only worthy competitor stop the worst major patent copier. You know who else engaged in this type of behavior back in the 90s? That's right, Microsoft. Now Apple is the innovator monopolistic bully trying to stifle competition copying . It's one reason why I'm ditching my iPhone for Windows Phone. Can't stand the Samscum behavior or and lack of innovation.

 

Uhh... dude, I fixed that for you. In addition, you need to know that Microsoft didn't use the patent system to build their market dominance, in fact Microsoft used a toolbox full of illegal and unethical methods instead. So is THAT why you want to go out and buy a Windows phone??

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrix View Post


This guy doesn't have a clue. I have been in manufacturing for 25 years and I have seen what has happened to companies believing that low labor costs would increase profits. So, they setup manufacturing in China and within a year a Chinese company copies the product and process without shame. They then become their competitor, robbing them of their IP and profits.
This is the exact same thing!!!!! You can buy iPhone, iPod and iPad knockoffs throughout Asia for a fraction of the price. Don't kid yourself this was a complete ripoff from the start. Look at their packaging it's pathetic that they can't even come up with that!
This has happened to countless American companies, so you may believe that just because I am boycotting the Korean company Samsung that it won't have an effect, I think you are wrong! My family no longer buys Samsung, my friends don't buy Samsung and I hope to convince everyone that I do business with to stop buying Samsung.

 

You might be in manufacturing, but if you were in marketing you would have attended a few trade shows in the USA and seen the Asians with their digital cameras snapping photos of every innovative thing they see. It's not necessary for an USA company to take their product manufacturing to Asia when Asia comes to the USA to steal the IP.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #37 of 37
Or else what, exactly? Going to outsource my job?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

 

Really?   I'm surprised, usually there's also a Fox News reference in there somewhere as well.  Please keep your political views, however misguided they may be, to yourself.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › US ITC to investigate Apple's products in response to Motorola complaint