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Apple's new Maps in iOS 6 draw ire from users around the world - Page 9

post #321 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

An old bit of savvy advice from my days at IBM (when they had 97% marketshare of maimframe computers).

 

"When you do something, do it really well... or screw it up really bad -- They won't remember what you did... but they'll recognize your name!"

 

A year from now this will be a non-issue... and we'll all recognize the name Apple.

 

I'd like nothing more than for this to be true!  :)

post #322 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

It's this kind of thing that demonstrates how Apple will release a product that doesn't totally "delight" it's customers. It's not like Apple didn't know about all the problems their new map app had. The intentionally released a product that wasn't everything the their customers had come to expect, and even promoted it at the iOS 6 presentation months ago, which in retrospect was little more than lipstick on a pig.
Apple should have never made this move. They should have gone out of their way to work with Google to renew their contract with Google, all the while developing their own map app in secret (much as Google did to Apple with Android). Instead, Apple in a supreme act of arrogance has hurt its customer base substantially, and given new customers pause to consider buying the iPhone 5, and instead buying an Android phone, especially where map functionality is of primary importance to them. At least with Mobile Me customers had nothing to compare that debacle to, sadly, we have Google's maps and this just makes Apple look like hacks, covering their mistakes with flashy 3D flyovers that don't really add anything of substance.

Considering your analogy which compares Apple iOS to Android, perhaps Google should never have released Android since they are still trying to catch up.
post #323 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


… What's this? Things can change… over TIME? You mean problems can be fixed? 

Nobody is arguing that things can't change over time, but this is the equivalent of replacing your starting all-star NBA forward with a high school senior.

And iOS 6 Maps ain't no Kobe or Lebron 1wink.gif

 

I am a LLF (Long-time Laker Fan... since 1948 when they were in Minneapolis -- then moved to LA when we did.   I followed Kobe''s entry into the team and the league!

 

Kobe usually has a very high free throw percentage -- 84.5% last year (thank you Siri).

 

I clearly remember a game at the beginning of Kobe's pro career where he was taking a free-throw... Kobe missed the basket entirely... about 3 feet short -- he was lucky to his the ground.

 

 iOS 6 maps hit the ground, yesterday... and maybe touched a bit of the rim on the way down.... I can hardly wait to see iOS 6 maps reach its potential.

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post #324 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Considering your analogy which compares Apple iOS to Android, perhaps Google should never have released Android since they are still trying to catch up.

Had Google not released Android we would not be having this discussion about Apple maps.

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post #325 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Apple should have never made this move. They should have gone out of their way to work with Google to renew their contract with Google, all the while developing their own map app in secret (much as Google did to Apple with Android). Instead, Apple in a supreme act of arrogance has hurt its customer base substantially, and given new customers pause to consider buying the iPhone 5, and instead buying an Android phone, especially where map functionality is of primary importance to them. At least with Mobile Me customers had nothing to compare that debacle to, sadly, we have Google's maps and this just makes Apple look like hacks, covering their mistakes with flashy 3D flyovers that don't really add anything of substance.

I think it would have made sense to try to continue it, but without real insider info, we may never know. I recall Apple bought a navigation company and a satellite mapping company a couple years ago. I don't know if it's legal or possible to keep such purchases secret. Anyone with an ounce of sense could have deduced from those purchases that Apple was probably working on their own mapping back end.

Google's purchase of Android was publicly announced about two years before Apple announced their phone. Despite this alleged industrial espionage, I doubt because it still took Google a year and a half to offer a counterpoint, and it was a half-assed one at that.

Exactly when it dawned on them that Schmidt might be a liability, I don't know, but it seemed like he should have been asked to leave a year or more earlier. Up until his resignation, the official Apple line was that he was fine where he was.
post #326 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Good thing Google Maps are perfect! Oh, wait!








So it's time for 'google sucked so apple can suck too'?

Let's analyze those image :

- first one shows a route that takes less time to take than a shorter. Ever heard of traffic jams?

- second to fifth, yes it sucks, but where is that? maybe that's even fixed right now

- Sixth to last : you really had to look for google maps from 4 years ago? Also the two images showing oceans are precisely Google easter eggs, see the "swimm across the Atlantic"?

 

Your level of argumentation is close to zero.

 

edit: And for everyone's fun, there's a tumblr that shows all the maps disasters.


Edited by ClemyNX - 9/20/12 at 12:17pm
post #327 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


It's the closest analogy I could think of lol.gif

But it's still not perfect. In the case of Google Maps, it doesn't deterioriate with age like an NBA player. It would only get better, stronger as it collects more data. Apple Maps is starting off years late and still has to compete with a juggernaut that is gobbling data and processing it like a madman. Apple will always have that usability gap since Google is so far ahead in the game and has its search engine to keep feeding data into Google Maps.

I see. So no one should ever release a new product in a market where someone else is already established?

Let's see. There were dozens of portable music players before Apple released the iPod. The first iPod had some deficiencies and there was no way for Apple to ever catch up.

There were tons of phones out there before Apple released the iPhone. The first iPhone had some deficiencies and even some significant problems. So Apple will always be behind.

You're ignoring the very real possibility that Apple can solve the data problems cited in this article. With their attitude and mentality, it is unlikely that Google will ever solve their UI and personal data whore problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

It's this kind of thing that demonstrates how Apple will release a product that doesn't totally "delight" it's customers. It's not like Apple didn't know about all the problems their new map app had. The intentionally released a product that wasn't everything the their customers had come to expect, and even promoted it at the iOS 6 presentation months ago, which in retrospect was little more than lipstick on a pig.

Or maybe there's an alternative explanation:
Apple had no choice - their agreement with Google was ending. They released a very good Maps app which, albeit imperfect, offers a perfectly functional and useful application for 99.5% of users. The remaining 0.5%, instead of working with Apple to fix the problem by reporting data errors and/or bug reports, has a massive hissy fit because of unrealistic explanations.

Somehow, I think my explanation is closer to the truth.
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post #328 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Had Google not released Android we would not be having this discussion about Apple maps.

That's quite an assumption. Seeing a pile of revenue and profits you could keep all to yourself has often been a reason to kill a partnership. IMHO it was inevitable that Apple and Google would eventually part ways over something. I think Android just moved up the timeline.

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post #329 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


If I remember correctly, Apple makes the map.app, it just plugs into Google's back end. I don't have my iPhone 4 with me to verify, but try roomstogo without spaces. If you get the same results, then its just a issue of not recognizing search recommendations.

I've tried both and get nothing with both. Everytime it just says "No results found" - this, as I said in another post, is far from the only search problem I've had with the google maps app.  I don't know who's the blame for the disparity between the android maps app and the iPhone but the fact that they aren't performing the same adds even more fuel to the idea that iMaps really doesn't have any more problems than the Google Maps iPhone app.

post #330 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

So it's time for 'google sucked so apple can suck too'?
Let's analyze those image :
- first one shows a route that takes less time to take than a shorter. Ever heard of traffic jams?
- second to fifth, yes it sucks, but where is that? maybe that's even fixed right now
- Sixth to last : you really had to look for google maps from 4 years ago? Also the two images showing oceans are precisely Google easter eggs, see the "swimm across the Atlantic"?

Your level of argumentation is close to zero.

edit: And for everyone's fun, there's a tumblr that shows all the maps disasters.

You don't understand the point but I don't expect you too. Logic is clearly beyond your grasp.
post #331 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Had Google not released Android we would not be having this discussion about Apple maps.

That's quite an assumption. Seeing a pile of revenue and profits you could keep all to yourself has often been a reason to kill a partnership. IMHO it was inevitable that Apple and Google would eventually part ways over something. I think Android just moved up the timeline.

Perhaps but where is the pile of revenue and who wants to keep it. Apple did not let Google advertise in Maps and Apple certainly isn't advertising in their Maps either. The Maps app was core functionality that was a hugely popular user convenience. I think everyone was benefitting from the previous Maps app. Now almost no one is except a few Google haters who are giddy with excitement. They would have supported removing Google Maps even if there was no replacement at all.

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post #332 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I see. So no one should ever release a new product in a market where someone else is already established?
Let's see. There were dozens of portable music players before Apple released the iPod. The first iPod had some deficiencies and there was no way for Apple to ever catch up.
There were tons of phones out there before Apple released the iPhone. The first iPhone had some deficiencies and even some significant problems. So Apple will always be behind.
You're ignoring the very real possibility that Apple can solve the data problems cited in this article. With their attitude and mentality, it is unlikely that Google will ever solve their UI and personal data whore problems.
 

 

And you're ignoring that fact that while the iPod and the iPhone (and iPad) were somewhat deficient in specific areas and weren't the first entries, they were revolutionary products that SIGNIFICANTLY advanced their respective genres in more ways the one from DAY 1. They were so good that you could simply overlook any deficits as if they didn't even matter. 

 

Apple Maps is not revolutionary in anyway, and it's lacking in features/accuracy.

post #333 of 472

Just for fun:

 

iOS 5 Maps Max Zoom Out

 

 

 

iOS 6 Maps Max Zoom Out

 

 

 

iOS 6 Maps -- Yes Virginia, You Can Spin The Globe

 

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post #334 of 472
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Google will sue Apple for the use of a globe in a mapping application. Google Earth had it first.

 

Anyone see the new Motorola lawsuit? I submitted it to AI, so we should be seeing a story on it soon. The last cry of a dying empire… 

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post #335 of 472
If you want to know why Apple released their Maps app in such an inaccurate state, this may help to explain why:

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/09/19/rafer-maps
post #336 of 472
Baloney.

Give me your search criteria.

I tried NYC, Austin, Manila (Philippines). Worked perfectly.

WS shysters at work.
post #337 of 472
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Umm...because Google Maps hasn't ever mistaken a search query?
Sheeh, chill folks.

One? Sure. EVERY one? No.

 

Maps hasn't succeeded in a single query I've thrown at it. Either it can't find it, sends me across the world, or puts the marker in the wrong place.

 

The exact same queries in OpenStreetMaps worked 100% of the time. They are supposed to be the same data, so this is a pretty serious screwup.

post #338 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

I'll have to agree with this. 

 

Yes, I can *see* some of the great directions in which iOS Maps will go, but I feel as if we're forced to wait for something that we already had.

 

The problem is, that iOS users came to rely on a particular Google App on iOS.    ;)

And I don't think Apple really appreciated the degree to which this was a reality. 

because they want Google out of Apple like they want Samsung out big mistakes..Google Maps is the best and Samsung components are the best and once you get this out you will only have problems..they shoot themselves in the foot and all their billions cannot fix this. 

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post #339 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post

Ouch.  Glad I decided to hold off on upgrading.  Hopefully they can get it up to snuff soon!  Was looking forward to the built-in navigation...

Apple does not care about their users they just care about doing stuff their way and screw everyone in between...I wonder when users will finally see how arrogant Apple is

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post #340 of 472
Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post
Apple does not care about their users they just care about doing stuff their way and screw everyone in between...I wonder when users will finally see how arrogant Apple is

 

Why do we let you stay here?

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post #341 of 472
I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.

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post #342 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22 View Post

Apple does not care about their users they just care about doing stuff their way and screw everyone in between...I wonder when users will finally see how arrogant Apple is

 

This is complete bullshit. A complaint coming from *me* is one thing. As a concerned Apple user, I can also appreciate *everything else* I'm getting. This is ONE app - yes, an important one, but the iOS ecosystem is mature and deep. Outside of this ONE app, Apple SPOILS their users. the consumer satisfaction ratings are really all you need to look at to make this abundantly clear. All their major products are #1 year after year, often by a wide margin. Apple sets the bar in this industry. One app does not a tragedy make. 

 

But *fake concern*, as a vehicle for trolling, is something trolls like *you* do. At the very least, come off sounding halfway smart. You don't even sound informed, never mind authoritative in the least. 

post #343 of 472
I was really looking forward to apple developed vector maps with navigation but it's rendering in jittery even on third gen iPad in simple vector maps mode compared to google. Finding address yield incorrect location more than 50% of search even in San Francisco. Severely limited mapping solution and at best equivalent to $0.99 app which I would delete after a day or maybe just use it for turn by turn navigation.
post #344 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.

Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.

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post #345 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

One? Sure. EVERY one? No.

Maps hasn't succeeded in a single query I've thrown at it. Either it can't find it, sends me across the world, or puts the marker in the wrong place.

The exact same queries in OpenStreetMaps worked 100% of the time. They are supposed to be the same data, so this is a pretty serious screwup.

Then I'd be looking for some other cause. Lots of people are finding that it works - at least much of the time. Apple undoubtedly tested it and found that it worked at least much of the time. If you've tried repeated searches and it messes up every single query, I'd be looking for the problem. Maybe reinstall the OS. Or maybe it's a hardware problem? In any event, your experience is clearly not typical, so there's probably something else going on.
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post #346 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by am8449 View Post

If you want to know why Apple released their Maps app in such an inaccurate state, this may help to explain why:

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/09/19/rafer-maps

However it does not explain why they decided to remove Google Maps. They could have easily coexisted and they would not have upset the user base in such an abrupt manner.  That would have made the majority of users happy. There is something else going on behind the scenes which caused this fiasco. Apple knew full well this was going to be a rough transition but it was clearly a calculated decision.

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post #347 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHead75 View Post

What a bunch of cry babies! This is Apple's first maps app, so why do you expect it to be on par with Google's whose been doing it for years? Trust that Apple will get things right over the the course of a few months to a year.

I think you're bang on.  However the relevant point i think is that they should have waited another year to release it then.  It's like Siri.  Siri is ready for market NOW, which is when it should have been released.  Not a year ago in Beta.  I have no doubt Apple's Maps will eventually be the best (I have already seen Tom Tom camera cars driving around in my smaller sized city, so street view is definitely coming soon), but they should have waited until it was at least comparable.

post #348 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.

I have a crazy idea. Let's allow consumers to decide.

Anyone with more than three brain cells can guess why Apple Insider suddenly has an influx of new users. I suspect this is part of a campaign by Android-based smartphone OEMs to manufacture more issues with Apple. This occurs with every single release of the iPhone. Does no one wonder where Google spends all their advertising dollars?

Most users will not be impacted by the same five issues that are being repeated over and over again in this thread. Period.

I am willing to bet USD $1,000 that this supposed debacle will have no material effect on Apple long term.

Anyone? No, I didn't think so.
post #349 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.

Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.

Dick, How does putting the app in the users' hands improve the satellite imagery? The images for my city in Central America which were perhaps 5 years old in the previous Map app are now ancient grayscale military aerial photos from the 50's. I have since narrowed it down to some time between when the hotel burned down in 1970 to when the high school built a gymnasium in 1974.


Edited by mstone - 9/20/12 at 3:55pm

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post #350 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by am8449 View Post

If you want to know why Apple released their Maps app in such an inaccurate state, this may help to explain why:

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/09/19/rafer-maps

However it does not explain why they decided to remove Google Maps. They could have easily coexisted and they would not have upset the user base in such an abrupt manner.  That would have made the majority of users happy. There is something else going on behind the scenes which caused this fiasco. Apple knew full well this was going to be a rough transition but it was clearly a calculated decision.

 

If I were to guess, knowing the parties involved:

  1. the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
  2. Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
  3. Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
  4. Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
  5. neither party would yield

 

I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.

 

Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.

 

At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.

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post #351 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Is anyone really surprised Apple maps 1.0 is not equal to Google Maps 6.0?

 

Give it a few months.. maybe even a year.  With user feedback and resources focused on the Apple maps.. they will eventually catch up.  I have no doubt a company with a $100 Billion in the bank.. can make a great map app.

 

I completely agree with you... but...

 

To me, as a customer, I read this whole Maps debacle as: Apple's grudge against Google > Apple's users 

 

Apple should have come out of the gates MUCH MUCH stronger. Let's face it: our iPhones are modern swiss army knives and so many of us rely heavily on GMaps.

 

Even if it meant holding off Maps until iOS7... For a company so rich, there are few excuses. They KNOW this isn't up to snuff but they release it anyway. 

post #352 of 472

Does anyone know how, we the users, can help to improve iOS maps?

I realize that we can't help with satellite imagery, but are there other deliberate ways we can help?...is there a type of help/feedback system?

Or does Apple just mine some of the data "automatically" from our daily usage?

 

Millions of iOS users are probably open to helping improve the maps, so what could we do to expedite?

 

And if there are deliberate methods to improve it, maybe the iOS community (or Apple) should shout those methods out via whatever media possible?
 

post #353 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

If I were to guess, knowing the parties involved:

  1. the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
  2. Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
  3. Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
  4. Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
  5. neither party would yield

 

I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.

 

Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.

 

At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.

Apple must have decided to go cheap on the imagery and the data because there is much better of both on nearly every other map source. Sad because they easily could have purchased the very best of both if they had wanted to.

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post #354 of 472
redacted

Edited by Maury Markowitz - 9/21/12 at 3:49am
post #355 of 472
Originally Posted by allmypeople View Post

Even if it meant holding off Maps until iOS7...

 

So having NO maps in iOS 6 would have been better than this? Really?


This has nothing to do with money. This has nothing to do with one person's subjective snuff.

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post #356 of 472
I have just started trying out this app. It pulls data from the iOS map app right now, which means Apple maps if you're on iOS 6, but they have an update submitted with apple which should be available about October 3rd and will pull in map data from google.

Just something to keep you going while Apple gets its house in order:


http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/streetviewer/id491629584?mt=8
post #357 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So having NO maps in iOS 6 would have been better than this? Really?


This has nothing to do with money. This has nothing to do with one person's subjective snuff.

Yep.

post #358 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

 

Google did not write the Map app on iOS, Apple did. The only thing Google did was provide the mapping data. That's it. It's up to Apple to update (or now replace) the app.

 

 

Someone in my office pointed me to this. 

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/

 

Mapgate 2012.


What are you talking?  Apple write another Map app to replace the one it created? 

post #359 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've been predicting this since I started using iOS 6b1. I seem to recall getting blasted on this forum for saying that Apple's Maps was considerably below what Google offers in functionality. I seem to recall MacBook Pro was the most vocal in that regard. Now, many betas later and after it's release to the world I still wish Apple would have kept this under lock and key for another year so they could get it closer to what it needs to be.

Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.

Dick, How does putting the app in the users' hands improve the satellite imagery? The images for my city in Central America which were perhaps 5 years old in the previous Map app are now ancient grayscale military aerial photos from the 50's.

 

I meant improving basic surface maps and search data.

 

I do not have an answer for satellite imagery.  Except, I doubt that Google has its own satellites -- it must be relying on someone else to supply the images. 

 

I expect that Apple can obtain satellite images from the same or other sources.

 

I suspect that iOS 6 Maps uses a different software mechanism than iOS 5 maps to store, generate and present its satellite images -- thus the difference in speed.

 

If the above is true, then it is only a matter of time and priorities to convert and update the imagery in iOS 6 Maps.

 

 

BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.

 

P.S.  Lake Michigan is a clean... Lake Titicaca is a dirty..

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #360 of 472

September 20, 2013. 

 

Save the date. We'll all come back here and see who was right about Apple's maps.

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply
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