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Apple's new Maps in iOS 6 draw ire from users around the world - Page 10

post #361 of 472
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.

I tried the first one. I puts the pointer about a kilometer away. OpenStreetMap and Google nails it right on. Bing maps you can't tell, there's no imagery.

 

Maps << everyone else. And as I noted earlier, this has been true for every search I've done. Sometimes only a little off, sometimes complete fail.

post #362 of 472

All the bitching will end soon, Tallest Skill lol.gif

 

 

 

Quote:
Source: Google Hopes To Have iOS Maps App In The App Store “Before Christmas”
 
 

It turns out it’s really hard to map the world. Along with their iOS 6 update, many amateur digital cartophiles were in for a rude awakening: Apple Maps, which looked so cool in Apple’s launch demo, are actually, and hilariously, a POS (Yes, I was wrong).

And, in releasing what is essentially a half-baked beta of this in its rush to be free of Google, Apple has also released a torrent of user criticism.

Digital maps are are obviously a difficult endeavor, and the data from OSM and Tom Tom leaves much to be desired here. But the failure is so glaring that even some Apple peeps are wondering when Google will release its standalone iOS Maps app, because using Google Maps on Safari is just sort of awkward. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO NAVIGATE THE EARTH? Help us Google iOS Maps team, you are our only hope.

Debunking the diabolical theory that Google will take as long as it likes to release its Maps App, in an effort to convert people to Android, I’ve got a source telling me that the Google Maps team is taking this as a crisetunity, doubling down on staff, lining up the team and resources to have a standalone iOS app in the App store “before Christmas.” 9to5Mac is reporting that Google already has an iOS 6-ready app, and it’s waiting for Apple’s review.

 

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/crap-maps/

post #363 of 472

I have read some of your comments, and I may speculate on the technology GPS vs AGPS

GPS is free we paid for the satelites orbiting, I have A garmin IQ3600 and the software

is not real time. I never paid for network access, However with Gmaps it will be updated

at regular intervals and with AGPS integrated to smart phone the triangulation of your

cell will superimpose to the free GPS satelites we have in orbit. that is why we use data.

Now Tom Tom is like garmin and if Tom Tom writes software for apple and uptades streets, buildings..etc.. at  predetermined price. Then apple will charge you for alot of data that you would have got for cheaper price. With my Garmin IQ3600 I can update my software every year for

39.49 CDN and any new locations will be udated.

 

Tom

post #364 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedney View Post

I have just started trying out this app. It pulls data from the iOS map app right now, which means Apple maps if you're on iOS 6, but they have an update submitted with apple which should be available about October 3rd and will pull in map data from google.

Just something to keep you going while Apple gets its house in order:


http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/streetviewer/id491629584?mt=8

 

I just tried it... searched for London UK and I have a street view of Trafalgar -- Lord Nelson never looked better!

 

Picasso in Chicago also looks good!

 

This is a great app -- maybe Apple should buy it!

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post #365 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post


Setting aside my kneejerk "Ugh!" attitude to your praise of crowdsourcing (and why should I be Apple's free cartographer; I just want to *use* the map!), this is not simply about missing or broken data.  For example look at the images of Bowling Green State University on that tumblr link - in the Google image, the building outlines and names are shown, as are footpaths.  One source, all the info I need (were I to ever go to BGSU, that is...).

On the Apple map, all that's shown are surrounding streets (in a vibrant white-on-off-white scheme) and a big polygon labelled Bowling Green State University - with *zero* interior information.  So if I want to go to a particular building on campus, Apple *might* get me there (if the data's right, and if I'm not using public transit), but then I'd have to open up the university's website and hunt for a map to find the building.  This does not strike me as the sort of thing that "free crowdsourcing" is going to fix; this is a conscious decision to eliminate an entire class of data.

High Jeff,

I'm totally comfortable with Siri and Maps. They're on the scale and model of human evolution. They, as we all, will prove to be quicker learners than gory algorithms and 'extraordinarily private', privacy-probing institutions.

Coarse-graininess is the tax dependency levies on enfranchisement. It comes to pass, ...on a purely democratic time-frame.

Thanks.


I have no idea what you just said.

post #366 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Gosh how did we ever get around pre 2007? Nobody's perfect, stop belly aching and go into a 7-11 and buy a map. It's not that difficult.

I used Nokia Maps
post #367 of 472
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post
I have no idea what you just said.

 

His post was an interesting read. More verbose than I've heard in a while, but refreshing to see.

 

To paraphrase, "The solutions put forth by Apple in both mapping and AI will surpass those of Google due to their inherently better design models."

 

As for the coarse-graniness bit, I've no clue. 

EDIT: Oh, I think I get that part now. But I'm not sure how it applies to the above.

post #368 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.

AS mstone states, that's don't fly. You and MacBook Pro have been defending FlyOver as being more useful than Street View in every way and yet it's not. Plain and simple. As I showed month ago you can't see writing on store fronts. You virtually go down a street. I'm sure FlyOver has its uses but they aren't not parallel to Street View.

There are nice features to iOS 6 Maps which I mentioned months ago. They are doing the right thing by making their apps, but it is not a finished product. Plain and simple.

This is not Siri, which actually does need users to become better. You can't understand cultural references, voice patterns, accents, and the innumerable things people might causally request without excessive sourcing. This is why it's in beta. Is iOS 6 Maps in beta? Not that I've seen, nor should it be because a proper product has access to lat and long, has access to business addresses and where they correlate on a map, and has the features that people use already built in.


Crowd sourcing plays no role in any of those basic features and functionality. Is my iPhone going to secretly record video when I'm walking down the sidewalk so they can splice in Street View? Where is the FlyOver in more than a few places. AT&T has more LTE coverage than Apple has FlyOver locations (OK, I just made that one up, but it could be true).

There is potential there but they should have waited another year before releasing this unfinished product. We rightfully pooh-pooh other companies for bringing to market half-baked projected so why does Apple get a pass here? This is not up to their usual level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I have a crazy idea. Let's allow consumers to decide.

I am a consumer and made a decision. I also wrote extensively as to how I came to my decision. It wasn't emotional. It wasn't flippant. It was as objective and critical as I could possibly be and I determined exactly how people would feel about their Maps app if they didn't get a bunch of things resolved. So far, the only thing they have resolved is making it faster than iOS 5 Maps on an iPhone 4.

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post #369 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

September 20, 2013. 

 

Save the date. We'll all come back here and see who was right about Apple's maps.


Who's bringing the drinks?  And I have dibs on the chair, my back hurts.

post #370 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

The now unfortunate thing about Apple - they don't like to play with others. By corraling their technology system... They essentially kill innovation. Think $100 billion would fix it? Ask the government. Resources alone doesn't make a company more innovate or able to perfect a technology.
Google pretty much owns maps. And right behind them... Is Nokia.

Your comment looks absolutely backwards to me. Apple moved to using OSM, an open standard. If they add data to OSM, they are providing it as open source. Google on the other hand has built their own mapping system and apparently is keeping it proprietary. They are in the business of collecting and controlling data, and they are doing the same thing with their maps.

 

The map app is a simply a container for the OSM initiative, with innovation built into the imaging side of things. Unfortunately, the current data is not as good as Google's but the hope of open source to marshall legions of people to work towards improving the maps could lead to quick improvement since the research will be distributed among the open source community, as opposed to having a single profit driven company control what areas get mapped. And fwiw, any resources that Apple uses to improve OSM will benefit the whole OSM initiative, not just a single company.

 

btw, while there is may be privacy concerns over the way that Google acquires and catalogs the data collected while mapping, it is also important to note that they are looking for ways to monetize that data, http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/09/google-maps-api-vs-openstreetmap/

post #371 of 472
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post
Who's bringing the drinks?  And I have dibs on the chair, my back hurts.

 

*snap* I knew we should have planned for more than one chair… 

post #372 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I meant improving basic surface maps and search data.

I do not have an answer for satellite imagery.  Except, I doubt that Google has its own satellites -- it must be relying on someone else to supply the images. 

I expect that Apple can obtain satellite images from the same or other sources.

I suspect that iOS 6 Maps uses a different software mechanism than iOS 5 maps to store, generate and present its satellite images -- thus the difference in speed.

If the above is true, then it is only a matter of time and priorities to convert and update the imagery in iOS 6 Maps.


BTW, Search for places like Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca or Nazca Lines and there isn't all that much difference between the two maps apps.

P.S.  Lake Michigan is a clean... Lake Titicaca is a dirty..

Most of Google's satellite images were taken by a airplane, the others are real satellite images they probably purchased. I remember satellite images being all over the news at the beginning of the first Gulf War taken by a government contractor.
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post #373 of 472

More on the whole computer mapping space,

 

 

"It’s safe to say that Google is going to continue to push to monetize Google Maps and bank on the substantial investment it has made to develop the service. That’s probably not going to mean higher fees for apps and services to use Google Maps; however, it’s more likely that Google will continue to tweak terms of service so users of Google Maps will increasingly have to accept advertising from Google pushed along with Google Map content. And, of course, that advertising will be location-specific to whatever mapping data is being requested. And you can bet it will be filtered through the increasingly comprehensive dossier of interests, preferences, and demographic information Google accumulates about users through its new all-encompassing privacy policy.

The fees to use Google Maps probably aren’t what’s starting to put off companies like Foursquare and Apple — it’s probably the ever-increasing reach of Google’s advertising efforts. Third parties may not be comfortable acting as windows for Google’s advertising platform, and that’s particularly true for firms that compete against Google in one way or another — whether that be offering location-based deals or a leading mobile platform.



Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/why-are-companies-defecting-from-google-maps/#ixzz2739jYFGa

post #374 of 472
As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.
post #375 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.

I can't help but think you are wearing a cardboard sign that talks about the end of the world when you wrote that.

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post #376 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Problem is... it needs to be in use by the public (actual users) to get better.

AS mstone states, that's don't fly. You and MacBook Pro have been defending FlyOver as being more useful than Street View in every way and yet it's not. Plain and simple. As I showed month ago you can't see writing on store fronts. You virtually go down a street. I'm sure FlyOver has its uses but they aren't not parallel to Street View.

There are nice features to iOS 6 Maps which I mentioned months ago. They are doing the right thing by making their apps, but it is not a finished product. Plain and simple.

This is not Siri, which actually does need users to become better. You can't understand cultural references, voice patterns, accents, and the innumerable things people might causally request without excessive sourcing. This is why it's in beta. Is iOS 6 Maps in beta? Not that I've seen, nor should it be because a proper product has access to lat and long, has access to business addresses and where they correlate on a map, and has the features that people use already built in.


Crowd sourcing plays no role in any of those basic features and functionality. Is my iPhone going to secretly record video when I'm walking down the sidewalk so they can splice in Street View? Where is the FlyOver in more than a few places. AT&T has more LTE coverage than Apple has FlyOver locations (OK, I just made that one up, but it could be true).

There is potential there but they should have waited another year before releasing this unfinished product. We rightfully pooh-pooh other companies for bringing to market half-baked projected so why does Apple get a pass here? This is not up to their usual level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I have a crazy idea. Let's allow consumers to decide.

I am a consumer and made a decision. I also wrote extensively as to how I came to my decision. It wasn't emotional. It wasn't flippant. It was as objective and critical as I could possibly be and I determined exactly how people would feel about their Maps app if they didn't get a bunch of things resolved. So far, the only thing they have resolved is making it faster than iOS 5 Maps on an iPhone 4.

 

I have never defended FlyOver as "easier to use than Street View in every way".  I have said that it is easier to use (get the lay of the land, faster to move around, zoom in/out, etc.) and it does some things that street view cannot do. However, Street View also has some uses that FlyOver cannot do.

 

I even posted an example where I traced my grandkids recent trip to Victoria BC using iOS 6 maps.  I noted they were staying at a house with a Red Roof between two Gray Roofs.  Using Street View in iOS 5 Maps, I found the house, took a screen snap and emailed it to my granddaughter with the caption "Look Familiar?".  She was so unnerved that she thought I had followed them up there.

 

I try to look at issues from all sides -- I am not a blind Apple fan boy, and resent being defined as such by you or anybody!

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post #377 of 472
-1apple maps
post #378 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.

You mean because Steve Jobs would never ...

  1. ship a phone without physical dial pad?
  2. ship a laptop without a CD/DVD/Bluray drive?
  3. ship a computer without an RS-232 port?
  4. put a useless RF-45 connector in for networking?
  5. only connect to printers through a network connector?
  6. build a graphic user interface?
  7. base all printing on post script?

 

... I think you get the idea ...

post #379 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

not at all. But folks aren't thinking about that. They expect Apple Maps 1.0 to be equal to Google Maps 7.0. If they even release that it's a new database. it's like the folks that expected Siri to be perfect for every voice not understanding that voice systems need training and that means access to millions of different voices (meaning the users). 


You raise any interesting question. Could some of this be due to the high traffic of 'everyone' updating to iOS 6 yesterday and then hitting the Maps servers in rapid and constant use. We saw app store connections go down, especially in Passbook. We saw the whole wifi verification page crashing and so on due to high traffic. Could some of the errors especially with searching have been at least partially due to overloading the system. 

I think no one would complain has Apple included both Maps apps for iOS6 and spend time developing iMaps during the next year, then (maybe) ditch Gmaps and leave iMaps only for iOS7, based on users feedback among other things. Or with iOS8.

But replacing very polished and feature-full product with beta? Too rushed out. I agree with people here, it is very un-Apple. They don't rush out.

Using browser, sure. But on my 3Gs, it feels noticeably slower than native app. I guess I cannot blame them for having 3+ years old phone, but that is my reality right now.

Can anyone tell me how is New Zealand - especially Auckland - covered in new iMaps? Since 3Gs is not getting some new features with iOS6 anyway, if new maps are unusable for NZ, I should probably stay with iOS5 and wait for new phone...
post #380 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by elehcdn View Post

You mean because Steve Jobs would never ...
  1. ship a phone without physical dial pad?
  2. ship a laptop without a CD/DVD/Bluray drive?
  3. ship a computer without an RS-232 port?
  4. put a useless RF-45 connector in for networking?
  5. only connect to printers through a network connector?
  6. build a graphic user interface?
  7. base all printing on post script?

... I think you get the idea ...

You forgot

8. ship a 7" iPad
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post #381 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


I think no one would complain has Apple included both Maps apps for iOS6 and spend time developing iMaps during the next year, then (maybe) ditch Gmaps and leave iMaps only for iOS7, based on users feedback among other things. Or with iOS8.
But replacing very polished and feature-full product with beta? Too rushed out. I agree with people here, it is very un-Apple. They don't rush out.
Using browser, sure. But on my 3Gs, it feels noticeably slower than native app. I guess I cannot blame them for having 3+ years old phone, but that is my reality right now.
Can anyone tell me how is New Zealand - especially Auckland - covered in new iMaps? Since 3Gs is not getting some new features with iOS6 anyway, if new maps are unusable for NZ, I should probably stay with iOS5 and wait for new phone...

Please read my referenced article. This is the first phone Apple released since Google changed the business strategy for Google Maps. I am not sure that Apple had a lot of choice ...

post #382 of 472

No IOS 6 for me till they fix this POS application! Come on Apple!

post #383 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

If I were to guess, knowing the parties involved:

  1. the current agreement ran out -- it does not cover iOS 6 and iPhone 5 and later iDevices
  2. Apple and Google tried to negotiate a new agreement
  3. Apple wanted to use Google Turn-By-Turn and other new map features
  4. Google wanted to include ads and wanted access to user data
  5. neither party would yield

 

I think that this negotiation process has been on-going for several years -- with each side maneuvering for position.

 

Apple, seeing the handwriting on the wall, bought some mapping companies and licensed map data from others.

 

At some point, the battle was going to be joined -- better now, than later.

Apple must have decided to go cheap on the imagery and the data because there is much better of both on nearly every other map source. Sad because they easily could have purchased the very best of both if they had wanted to.

 

Knowing Apple as many here do (Including you and me), I doubt they went cheap -- rather they went with expediency!  I expect them to spend top dollars to have the best mapping solution out there, bar none.  I'd give them a year to be competitive.  

 

The Maps app can be tweaked with minor point upgrades to iOS 6 -- I expect one in less than 2 months.  

 

The imagery and map data can be updated continuously regardless of the app or iOS version.  

 

The fact that third parties have access to some mapping APIs, indicates that enhancements like public transportation can be added anytime -- like today, for instance,

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post #384 of 472

This entire discussion reminds me of every time I've ever been involved in installing new systems anywhere. Users go crazy on day 1. "Nothing works... I can't do X... I can't do Y... The old system was so much easier... Whoever picked this system should be fired..." And so it goes for, always, at least the first few days, sometimes even weeks. The kinks get worked out. Turns out there is a better way to do X & Y, in one step, by just doing Z. (Or X & Y don't even exist any more, because the new system has a better way of doing things altogether.) After a few weeks or months, everyone thinks the new system is so much better, except a few diehards who simply can't deal with any change. The company moves on and wonders how they ever got anything done with the old system, the new one is so much better...

 

I think that's pretty much what we're going to see here with Maps.

post #385 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Just for fun:

 

 

iOS 6 Maps -- Yes Virginia, You Can Spin The Globe

 

The colors you see in the globe are obviously colored using simulations. I have studied the way those simulations work and it appears that they have done some pretty clever blending as you zoom in using terrain maps, complete with fake cirrus clouds. If there is no true color imagery they illustrate it in. It isn't until you really zoom in to like what Google would call level 9 or 10 do see actual photography in many place around the world. If that imagery is in grayscale they artificially color it. Once you are level 11+ you see the actual patchwork of the photos. I wish they had spent as much time and money to get high quality imagery in the first place rather than the smoke and mirrors they choose to use instead.

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post #386 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

As has been mentioned, you can use maps.google.com in Safari and place an icon on the home screen. I did this months ago in preparation for the new Apple maps replacement as the devs were already warning how it no longer contained transit schedules. In the mobile web version of Google maps, the directions button is the diamond shaped icon with an arrow. Once on that tab you can select walking, driving, transit etc.

I actually didn't think of that up until I saw mention of it somewhere in a discussion. I suppose I simply assumed that Google Maps wouldn't be very well optimized for mobile devices, but in retrospect that was a little silly of me. I'll be doing just this for transit directions. Hopefully Google Maps comes out in the App Store. For most things, I'm actually really liking the update. I'm in a city that appears to be well-populated. Zooming and navigation are much smoother and the app is more enjoyable to use.
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post #387 of 472

Should have worked with Google (use some of that money pile) to keep Google Maps in iOS, until iOS Maps is developed to the degree that some of the more glaring issues are worked out. Apple should have done anything and everything to avoid this PR nightmare.

 

I wonder who at Apple thought it was ok to release this app in its current state.

post #388 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Knowing Apple as many here do (Including you and me), I doubt they went cheap -- rather they went with expediency!  I expect them to spend top dollars to have the best mapping solution out there, bar none.  I'd give them a year to be competitive.  

The Maps app can be tweaked with minor point upgrades to iOS 6 -- I expect one in less than 2 months.  

The imagery and map data can be updated continuously regardless of the app or iOS version.  

The fact that third parties have access to some mapping APIs, indicates that enhancements like public transportation can be added anytime -- like today, for instance,

Whatever happened to "I love how Apple takes it's time perfecting a function before releasing something"? How many things were left out of the iPhone until Apple was sure they nailed it? This is very unApple like and people's frustrations are merited.
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post #389 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

This entire discussion reminds me of every time I've ever been involved in installing new systems anywhere. Users go crazy on day 1. "Nothing works... I can't do X... I can't do Y... The old system was so much easier... Whoever picked this system should be fired..." And so it goes for, always, at least the first few days, sometimes even weeks. The kinks get worked out. Turns out there is a better way to do X & Y, in one step, by just doing Z. (Or X & Y don't even exist any more, because the new system has a better way of doing things altogether.) After a few weeks or months, everyone thinks the new system is so much better, except a few diehards who simply can't deal with any change. The company moves on and wonders how they ever got anything done with the old system, the new one is so much better...

I think that's pretty much what we're going to see here with Maps.

That historically has not been the Apple way.
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post #390 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post

My comment here applies to many who have said "just report the problem" or "just wait, in a year or two it will be much better".  I don't want to be Apple's free cartography-checker and beta-tester.  Apple has $100 billion in the bank.  They either should have made a stellar product from the get-go, or not forced iMaps on everyone (who upgrades to iOS 6, which I apparently won't be doing soon) before it was ready.

I don't recall suggesting that people should report the problem, nor would I expect that to be a reasonable solution. But on the other hand, with a project of this scale, Apple does have to release at some stage of readiness which pales in comparison to Google while depending on users to evolve the data to the next level (presuming they actually do a decent job of following up on reported 'problems'). I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect otherwise. That said, I think I agree that this particular update should have stayed in the oven for another year. But then again, I don't know anything about what the real circumstances behind Google Maps on iOS were.
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post #391 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Is anyone really surprised Apple maps 1.0 is not equal to Google Maps 6.0?

 

Give it a few months.. maybe even a year.  With user feedback and resources focused on the Apple maps.. they will eventually catch up.  I have no doubt a company with a $100 Billion in the bank.. can make a great map app.

 

I bet it gets there quicker than the Google alternative.  It will have to.

post #392 of 472
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post
…apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co no longer use this line.

 

It's frigging Tim Cook. I'm not even going to comment on how misguided you are about the statement there.


Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
You forgot
8. ship a 7" iPad

 

Can't use an example that doesn't exist.

post #393 of 472

No, but I remember you talking shit about how apples maps were better than google a few weeks ago.  

post #394 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


That historically has not been the Apple way.

 

Historically, Apple hasn't provided these sort of services, so, historical parallels don't exist and prophesies of doom are greatly exaggerated.

 

But, I was actually suggesting that the hysteria over Maps has more to do with the users' reaction to change in general, and their tendency to declare that the sky is falling.

post #395 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

As i have said in other posts (and been criticised for by the fanboys) this is another example that apple products do NOT 'just work'. Timmy Cook and co
no longer use this line. I am telling you it is the beginning of a long and slow end for these guys without the great Steve Jobs. These guys are becoming a parody of themselves.

 

Jesus Christ. That assinine statement has become a parody of itself. Guess what? Alot of Apple products 'didn't work' when Steve Jobs was around, and there was alot of shit that was more eggregious than this. Stop using revisionist history and pretending that's just not the case, so you can troll. 

 

What Apple decided to embark on was a massive endeavor. Mapping the world is the most complex thing you can possibly do. I don't see how any rational person expected this to be in all respects ON PAR with Google maps, which has benefitted from 10+ years of being by hundreds of millions of people. If this was released next year, or the year after, the situation would have been similar- there's only so much you can do without releasing it to the public and getting feedback. You think Google maps would have stood still? Yes, there might be a while of pain for some while the gaps get filled out. But they WILL get filled up, quickly, because Apple has every reason and every motivation to do so as fast as possible. They know how important this is. And when the dust settles, I'd wager that with Apple's ambition and obsession, and with the usage and feedback of hundreds of millions of iOS users, what we'll end up with a product that is arguably BETTER than Google Maps in ALL respects. It might not be next week or next month, or even 6 months from now. But at this stage Apple maps will improve much faster than Google maps, especially since Google is going to bleed a ton of users. 

post #396 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Whatever happened to "I love how Apple takes it's time perfecting a function before releasing something"? How many things were left out of the iPhone until Apple was sure they nailed it? This is very unApple like and people's frustrations are merited.

 

The notion that maps data can be 'perfected' before release is insane and idiotic. Please, use some critical thinking. This isn't copy & paste or folders. This is mapping the world. In 3D. In vector. Millions of cities, towns, roads, hundreds of millions of POIs, complex routing algorithms, etc. Apple could have kept this in the oven another 10 years, you think it would have anywhere near perfect upon release, especially without people using it? No. 

 

Anecdotally, it has been flawless in my cities. But of course, we're seeing examples of tiny German towns where it's subpar as examples of its incompetence. 

post #397 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Historically, Apple hasn't provided these sort of services, so, historical parallels don't exist and prophesies of doom are greatly exaggerated.

But, I was actually suggesting that the hysteria over Maps has more to do with the users' reaction to change in general, and their tendency to declare that the sky is falling.

And Apple historically didn't make phones and we all know how that turned out.
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post #398 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

The notion that maps data can be 'perfected' before release is insane and idiotic. Please, use some critical thinking. This isn't copy & paste or folders. This is mapping the world. In 3D. In vector. Millions of cities, towns, roads, hundreds of millions of POIs, complex routing algorithms, etc. Apple could have kept this in the oven another 10 years, you think it would have anywhere near perfect upon release, especially without people using it? No. 

Anecdotally, it has been flawless in my cities. But of course, we're seeing examples of tiny German towns where it's subpar as examples of its incompetence. 

Then it should've been a scaled down version with fly over pics added later. Nail one thing and on and on.
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post #399 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Knowing Apple as many here do (Including you and me), I doubt they went cheap -- rather they went with expediency!  I expect them to spend top dollars to have the best mapping solution out there, bar none.  I'd give them a year to be competitive.  

The Maps app can be tweaked with minor point upgrades to iOS 6 -- I expect one in less than 2 months.  

The imagery and map data can be updated continuously regardless of the app or iOS version.  

The fact that third parties have access to some mapping APIs, indicates that enhancements like public transportation can be added anytime -- like today, for instance,

Whatever happened to "I love how Apple takes it's time perfecting a function before releasing something"? How many things were left out of the iPhone until Apple was sure they nailed it? This is very unApple like and people's frustrations are merited.

Apple may have had no choice in the timing. Google and Apple may not have been able to come to agreement with the existing app.

As I posted, much of what is needed can be added incrementally without updating the app or OS.

Part of providing a service such as mapping is gathering real world usage data that requires user input -- you can't start with a finished service (aside from buying an existing service).

I suspect that Google's market leader Map Service was not for sale.

So, if you are Apple, what do you do?
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post #400 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Apple may have had no choice in the timing. Google and Apple may not have been able to come to agreement with the existing app.
As I posted, much of what is needed can be added incrementally without updating the app or OS.
Part of providing a service such as mapping is gathering real world usage data that requires user input -- you can't start with a finished service (aside from buying an existing service).
I suspect that Google's market leader Map Service was not for sale.
So, if you are Apple, what do you do?

 

I'm sure they could've even licensed Bing Maps, or Nokia, or..but Apple's hubris won out. They had to go their own way, and their overriding hatred of Google is above the happiness of iPhone users. I think they really wanted to get rid of all traces of Google first, fix the rest with some updates later on.

 

It has a very beta feel to it, and if it wasn't one of the major announced features of iOS 6, I probably wouldn't care as much, but I was really interested in using one less device on trips to navigate around with, but I seriously doubt I could trust it ATM in very dense cities. There are other apps and my GPS, but if that's the case, why bother going their own way, and just buy/license someone's else established wares? 

 

I just couldn't see something like this flying past SJ.

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