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Apple hiring developers to work on widely-criticized iOS 6 Maps - Page 2

post #41 of 175
"which is used by countless applications"

They are not countless, you just didn't bother to count them. - Lt. Kiff Kroker
post #42 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleFanPro View Post

I trust that Apple will improve their product. The only thing I care about at the moment is that turn by turn directions are accurate. I don't understand the logic that the simple act of more people using maps will magically improve it.

OK, turn-by-turn, specifically:

Assume the maps app is logging your location, what it tells you to do and your reactions.

It tells you to turn left, but you don't -- no street, one-way, no left turn...

Ideally you'd report the problem but it is pretty inconvenient to do so when you're trying to figure out what you supposed to do while driving in an unfamiliar area.

So you do something different than what you were told to do.

After taking corrective action, you re-engage the map application with your new location.

Since this is all logged, this unexpected action can be flagged by the app.

By analyzing the logs, Apple can determine when unexpected actions occur. By determining the number of unexpected actions that occur at a given location, Apple an
Can zero in on a potential problem area and possibly fix it.

Some things are pretty easy to pinpoint… If people are told to make a left turn -- but they go through the intersection, make a U-turn and then make a right turn... you can be pretty sure that it's a no left turn or a one-way street.

If they make a right turn and then a U-turn -- It's probably a no left turn.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/21/12 at 5:14am
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post #43 of 175

Let's get a bit of perspective here.

 

Google maps year 1

 

 

Apple maps year 1

 

 

Let's be honest, year for year we already have a winner and that's before you add satellite imagery, turn by turn navigation and all this 3D stuff.

 

Apple maps V1 was never going to compete with Google maps V7 as Google have had 8 years head start but I bet it doesn't take Apple more than a year to catch up.

post #44 of 175
In the past apple took time to make a product that was ready for market. This is far from it. With 150 billion in the bank, don't you think they could've put a bit more into this app? I use maps several times a day.. and so far, I miss google maps. Apple better step it up and not get comfortable or cocky. Even the greatest can stumble and fall from the top.
post #45 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Let's get a bit of perspective here.

Google maps year 1



Apple maps year 1



Let's be honest, year for year we already have a winner and that's before you add satellite imagery, turn by turn navigation and all this 3D stuff.

Apple maps V1 was never going to compete with Google maps V7 as Google have had 8 years head start but I bet it doesn't take Apple more than a year to catch up.

To be fair, you should compare the maps at different zoom levels.

IOS 6 maps attempts to remove unnecessary clutter, so you get a clearer view at the zoom level... E.g. Showing neighborhoods instead of a spiderweb of tiny streets.

As you zoom in, streets, street names and building outlines appear -- where they would only be a distraction at an outer zoom level.

Makes the app more responsive, too!
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #46 of 175

Also getting sick of people saying they miss Google maps. It's not missing, it's still there, it's just not 1 lazy button press away.

Open Safari and go to maps.google.com and away you go. From there you can save the bookmark as a main page icon and you have Google maps back again.

 

I like to have the option instead of being stuck with just Google maps. Remember, competition is good.

Also remember that Google only released their 3D maps because Apple announced theirs and so far, Apple 3D maps are better than Google's.

post #47 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Forstall is doing a great job, he probably didn't have a choice since 'someone' above him decided to stop using google maps, and had little time to develop the maps app. They needed more time. Apple put itself at risk with that decision. By next year the maps will be much better and almost everybody will have forgotten this, hopefully.

 

I agree. Apple also need a few more jets flying around the world mapping. Once you have experienced the areas with 3D the 2D areas seems horrible. Even simple maintain terrain is great to see like this. The SAAB system was designed to allow height and distance measurements too, I'd love to be able to play around with that feature. I'd also love to see an option to change the height factor as in Google Earth.

I also wonder if the agreement with Google was terminated and if so at which end, I cannot imagine Google would kill off the 90 percent of mobile web traffic themselves so I assume it was Apple. If this has all been covered my bad, I missed it.

It seems a shame Apple couldn't have kept Google for a while and run their own system in beta rather than this all or nothing approach. Shades of FCPro 7? Lol.

Of course we can all make a home screen icon of the Google Maps web site easily enough.

One small note, am I the only one that finds rotating 3D in each axis pretty difficult on an iPad? Every time I lower the viewing angle then try to rotate around I seem to raise the viewing angle again!
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post #48 of 175
google are run by two humble genuises
post #49 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

no you are wrong. get back on that treadmill you mouse.

I had to get off to count my profits to date from my AAPL. /wink
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post #50 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post


no you are wrong. get back on that treadmill you mouse.

 

tekstud? Is that you?

post #51 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

google are run by two humble genuises

Google is plural? Meanwhile Eric Schmidt has neither attribute.
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post #52 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post


Dick you dont know my qualifications, trust me Scott Forstall must be sacked. His reputation is shot and he is the laughing stock of the industry.

 

Fortunately, this is not going to happen.

 

The problem with something like this is that you cannot assemble a test team big enough to cover every scenario. As many have said, Google had problems from day one, and still has them now. And this time next year, the Apple service will still have problems, though a lot less than it has now. Right now, Apple is doing the two most important things it can in this situation:

 

  1. Attempting to fix what is obviously a big problem (though no one is sure how big) for many of its users.
  2. Not listening to the multitude of anonymous armchair CEOs bleating on the internet.
post #53 of 175
Hey, I have also been making a useful gain holding apple stock. they are making me more wealthy on the back of fanboys who just keep buying and buying and buying. So when people call me a hater of apple it is really funny.

I just like experimenting once in awhile with these lab mice - using basic psychology techniques, pointing out obvious failings of apple and seeing how these mice react when put in a situation where their blind loyalties conflicts against their logic, if they have any.

At the end of the day Apple makes me financially better off and the mice keep hoping they will reach some peace by just going a little further on that treadmill.......
post #54 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You have no management experience, correct?
You have no specific knowledge of the decision-making process that led to the maps situation, correct?
You are making recommendations for changes in Apple management based, on assumptions, no experience, and no specific knowledge, correct?
Why should anyone listen to you?


Dick you dont know my qualifications, trust me Scott Forstall must be sacked. His reputation is shot and he is the laughing stock of the industry.

So, an anonymous poster on AI decides who should manage what at Apple... I'll take that under consideration at the next shareholders meeting.

What if Tim made the decision, and Scott was faced with "do the best you can"?

It really bothers me when someone makes knee-jerk reactions without considering the possibilities/facts and weighing the alternatives.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #55 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

Hey, I have also been making a useful gain holding apple stock. they are making me more wealthy on the back of fanboys who just keep buying and buying and buying. So when people call me a hater of apple it is really funny.
I just like experimenting once in awhile with these lab mice - using basic psychology techniques, pointing out obvious failings of apple and seeing how these mice react when put in a situation where their blind loyalties conflicts against their logic, if they have any.
At the end of the day Apple makes me financially better off and the mice keep hoping they will reach some peace by just going a little further on that treadmill.......

 

You do know that no one believes you, right?

 

:-)

post #56 of 175

As an Apple shareholder, I'm disappointed the company left itself open to this sort of criticism.

 

I was running beta iOS 6 from the beginning and am a) disappointed by Maps itself, and b) disappointed that - seemingly - the only change to Maps during beta was the addition of more "flyover"cities ... a cool feature but, let's be honest, kind of a gimmick.  

 

Reduce the dividend $0.50 and use the saved money to "Manhattan Project" the hell out of "Apple Maps".  Come on, team.

post #57 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

So, an anonymous poster on AI decides who should manage what at Apple... I'll take that under consideration at the next shareholders meeting.
What if Tim made the decision, and Scott was faced with "do the best you can"?
It really bothers me when someone makes knee-jerk reactions without considering the possibilities/facts and weighing the alternatives.

Dick, you and I are shareholders of Apple. Given what has happened, would you like management to address this issue? i doubt it is going to have a profound impact but it does undermine the brand name when this fiasco gets splashed across the media. If Forestall is not held responsible then who should be - some lower employee(s) within Apple? Maybe they are responsible - if so they should also be sacked along with the leader that manages them.
post #58 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

You do know that no one believes you, right?

:-)


I am a substantial shareholder, but if it makes you feel better and less uncertain, believe what you want. Just realise in doing so that you are highlighting exactly that you are a lab mouse, with the fears, anxieties and hopes of what will happen on that treadmill.....
post #59 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

Hey, I have also been making a useful gain holding apple stock. they are making me more wealthy on the back of fanboys who just keep buying and buying and buying. So when people call me a hater of apple it is really funny.

I just like experimenting once in awhile with these lab mice - using basic psychology techniques, pointing out obvious failings of apple and seeing how these mice react when put in a situation where their blind loyalties conflicts against their logic, if they have any.

At the end of the day Apple makes me financially better off and the mice keep hoping they will reach some peace by just going a little further on that treadmill.......

You do know that no one believes you, right?

:-)

From the tenor of his posts, I guess that he's been fired by Scott Forstall.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #60 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

From the tenor of his posts, I guess that he's been fired by Scott Forstall.

The ignore list is out friend ...
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post #61 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

I am a substantial shareholder, but if it makes you feel better and less uncertain, believe what you want. Just realise in doing so that you are highlighting exactly that you are a lab mouse, with the fears, anxieties and hopes of what will happen on that treadmill.....

Courtesy to fellow posters is a common thing on AI, perhaps you should try it. Some of us also have psychology degrees and have been with Apple a long time that doesn't make us speak to fellow posters as if we are 10 years old.
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post #62 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

From the tenor of his posts, I guess that he's been fired by Scott Forstall.

nice one Dick, a bit of humour
post #63 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


To be fair, you should compare the maps at different zoom levels.
IOS 6 maps attempts to remove unnecessary clutter, so you get a clearer view at the zoom level... E.g. Showing neighborhoods instead of a spiderweb of tiny streets.
As you zoom in, streets, street names and building outlines appear -- where they would only be a distraction at an outer zoom level.
Makes the app more responsive, too!

 

The Google maps 2005 screen shot was what I found online, it's not mine so I can only compare what I could find.

post #64 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Courtesy to fellow posters is a common thing on AI, perhaps you should try it. Some of us also have psychology degrees and have been with Apple a long time that doesn't make us speak to fellow posters as if we are 10 years old.

I apologize if I mentally agitated you. Good luck and keep strong ( I really am a substantial shareholder and I dont like the ribbish those South Koreans aredishing up). Long live Apple but not fanboys with blind loyalty.
post #65 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo View Post

 I miss google maps.

 

post #66 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post


I am a substantial shareholder, but if it makes you feel better and less uncertain, believe what you want. Just realise in doing so that you are highlighting exactly that you are a lab mouse, with the fears, anxieties and hopes of what will happen on that treadmill.....


You've got a little something foaming out the side of your mouth there ....

post #67 of 175
Maps is as important as the web, so Apple cannot let Google or Microsoft dominate that.
So it's logical that Apple puts its weight into it. In a few years time nobody will remember the startup problems, in a way it's similar to the introduction of Final Cut Pro X.
In the meanwhile navigation via the new maps app worked flawlessly for me today.

J.
post #68 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Let's get a bit of perspective here.

Google maps year 1



Apple maps year 1



Let's be honest, year for year we already have a winner and that's before you add satellite imagery, turn by turn navigation and all this 3D stuff.

Apple maps V1 was never going to compete with Google maps V7 as Google have had 8 years head start but I bet it doesn't take Apple more than a year to catch up.

Frankly, Apple Maps compares favorably to the current version of Google Maps. Apple Maps already has numerous advantages to Google Maps in iOS 5.
post #69 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

... I just like experimenting once in awhile with these lab mice - using basic psychology techniques, pointing out obvious failings of apple and seeing how these mice react when put in a situation where their blind loyalties conflicts against their logic, if they have any. ...

 

So, you are confessing to being a troll? That wasn't really necessary, we already knew that.

post #70 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Maps is as important as the web, so Apple cannot let Google or Microsoft dominate that.
So it's logical that Apple puts its weight into it. In a few years time nobody will remember the startup problems, in a way it's similar to the introduction of Final Cut Pro X.
In the meanwhile navigation via the new maps app worked flawlessly for me today.
J.

 

I think it's also worth bearing in mind the changes in software development practice over the past couple of years.

Twenty years ago, Apple would have kept Maps hidden, developing it, polishing it and then releasing it ... only to find that time had moved on and it was not what users wanted any more.

 

Your point about Final Cut Pro X is a good one, but it's been going on a lot longer than that: the initial releases of  MacOSX were awful (oh come on! they were!), but Apple learned a lot by getting it out there and finding out what users thought, before they went too far down the wrong path.

 

Maps is the same. The real problem (I feel) is that Apple did not make it clear enough from the outset that this is an ongoing project. Folk were expecting something polished final from day one (and to be honest, most of the problems seem to relate to the maps and not the software itself), and unless they're told then they have a right to expect that.

 

And when I say 'folk' I'm talking about Apple's bread and butter customer base: people who don't spend all day hanging around Apple forums. Anyone else should really know better.

post #71 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Let's get a bit of perspective here.

Google maps year 1



Apple maps year 1



Let's be honest, year for year we already have a winner and that's before you add satellite imagery, turn by turn navigation and all this 3D stuff.

Apple maps V1 was never going to compete with Google maps V7 as Google have had 8 years head start but I bet it doesn't take Apple more than a year to catch up.

Couldn't agree more.

J.
post #72 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

I think it's also worth bearing in mind the changes in software development practice over the past couple of years.
Twenty years ago, Apple would have kept Maps hidden, developing it, polishing it and then releasing it ... only to find that time had moved on and it was not what users wanted any more.

Your point about Final Cut Pro X is a good one, but it's been going on a lot longer than that: the initial releases of  MacOSX were awful (oh come on! they were!), but Apple learned a lot by getting it out there and finding out what users thought, before they went too far down the wrong path.

Maps is the same. The real problem (I feel) is that Apple did not make it clear enough from the outset that this is an ongoing project. Folk were expecting something polished final from day one (and to be honest, most of the problems seem to relate to the maps and not the software itself), and unless they're told then they have a right to expect that.

And when I say 'folk' I'm talking about Apple's bread and butter customer base: people who don't spend all day hanging around Apple forums. Anyone else should really know better.

Apple simply didn't realize that Google's advertising budget is 160% of Apple's advertising budget.

Paying all these people to spam every forum and blog with rubbish is quite expensive.
post #73 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

I think it's also worth bearing in mind the changes in software development practice over the past couple of years.
Twenty years ago, Apple would have kept Maps hidden, developing it, polishing it and then releasing it ... only to find that time had moved on and it was not what users wanted any more.

Your point about Final Cut Pro X is a good one, but it's been going on a lot longer than that: the initial releases of  MacOSX were awful (oh come on! they were!), but Apple learned a lot by getting it out there and finding out what users thought, before they went too far down the wrong path.

Maps is the same. The real problem (I feel) is that Apple did not make it clear enough from the outset that this is an ongoing project. Folk were expecting something polished final from day one (and to be honest, most of the problems seem to relate to the maps and not the software itself), and unless they're told then they have a right to expect that.

Your right that introducing Mac OS X was a similar shock to users, especially OS 9 users, because NeXT users (like me) did like it a lot from the start. But I wouldn't call it awful because the OS wasn't crashing all the time and did contain a lot of the innovation that is currently used by OS X and iOS. Similarly the new maps app contains a lot of innovation Apple can build on in the years to come.
For some, I fear, it's the shock of new instead of the delight of it.

J.
post #74 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Apple simply didn't realize that Google's advertising budget is 160% of Apple's advertising budget.
Paying all these people to spam every forum and blog with rubbish is quite expensive.

 

You are delusional.

Forgot to block you.

post #75 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

Dick you dont know my qualifications, trust me Scott Forstall must be sacked. His reputation is shot and he is the laughing stock of the industry.

Insulting The poster by not using his full name, is ASSUMING that it is his real name... You know what they say about "assume"... You make an "Ass" of yourself...

one, stop. and I dont need to know your qualifications because you have none with respect to this web site... Dick Applebaum does, and plenty (this posts are always on point and Informative) thus in a "pissing" match, Ray Bart, you lose.

two, did you know The Late Steve Jobs as well as Scott Forstall?...

three, Did you work directly for Steve Jobs?...

becase unless you have, that you have no right Disparaging Scott Forstall. (actually, nobody should be disparaging him... that is his right to do.)

and Scott fostall's experience could get him almost any job in his selected field ( except CEO lol sorry) ...

the apple maps fixes the big problem with google maps, in that you can zoom in to far, and not get a picture... (as if those layers are not being shown)

and I do like the higher resolution of the black and white (original data)...
(yes, false coloring is nice but expensive...)

seach for "Panama Canal" in apple maps and you get 5 hits that aren't the Panama Canal, Panama (near costa rica, between north and south america... )
whereas in google maps, you get the "real" panama canal...
not sure how you would get the location of of those 5 "other" panama canal's in google maps...

finally, Apple with their new map app, has just increased the need for more Cartographers... so the future may be looking bright for some Cartographers...
post #76 of 175

AllThingsD is reporting that the Apple map team is in lockdown trying to fix it. If true then Apple certainly isn't ignoring some of the early feedback.

 

http://allthingsd.com/20120920/apple-maps-app-takes-reality-distortion-to-a-whole-new-level/

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post #77 of 175
There could be a vacuum for Maps developers. Judging by the dates of these job postings and Apple having the Maps dev team on lockdown, they are probably taking all the help they can get. This was a HUGE initiative in a short amount of time. It will work out in the end, but in the meantime need to take this stuff with the grain of salt.

Personally I'm sticking with 5.1 for a bit on my phone, but going to iOS 6 on my iPad immediately.

 

 

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post #78 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

There could be a vacuum for Maps developers. Judging by the dates of these job postings and Apple having the Maps dev team on lockdown, they are probably taking all the help they can get. This was a HUGE initiative in a short amount of time. It will work out in the end, but in the meantime need to take this stuff with the grain of salt.
Personally I'm sticking with 5.1 for a bit on my phone, but going to iOS 6 on my iPad immediately.

 

Sounds like a reasonable option.

post #79 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So where's the evidence that Apple's maps is significantly worse than Google's? 

There are several distinct functions within the maps app which can't all be generalized together as better or worse than Google. People use the app for different purposes. I use it for two main features. One, transit directions and schedules which we all know is missing. Two, for aerial views as I'm searching for land to buy. This feature is one that I find most disappointing because it has nothing to do with hiring more developers or getting data sorted. It is just plain and simple a matter of dollars. Apple did not spend the money on licensing high quality current imagery. No amount of work will fix this, only money, and they have plenty. They just decided to not buy the good stuff and instead patched together images form different sources and did some fake colorizing and blending. In my opinion it was a wasted effort.

 

The anomalies in the 3D rendering are indicative of the overall approach they have taken. They tried to program their way out of having to spend money. You cannot duplicate thousands of camera vehicles on the road for several years with a few thousand lines lines of code. You cannot replace thousands of hours of aircraft photography with some 3D generated models. Their bet did not pan out. This entire line of thinking needs to be rethought. They don't need more engineers they need boots on the ground and planes in the air.

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post #80 of 175

So I finally cleared some space on the iPhone 4 and upgraded to iOS 6.  I wanted to play with it before my 5 arrives in a week or so, and compare the hardware with the same OS (informally) . 

 

In any case, I've had a different experience than many international users, and even many domestic users (U.S.).  In my limited experience playing around with it:  

 

Pros:  

 

  • Faster, more responsive than Google map app.  
  • Better map display, clearer road signs, etc.  
  • Better satellite resolution..by far.  
  • More recent sat images (I live in a newer neighborhood, so this is obvious right away)
  • Better turn-by-turn display 

 

Cons:  

 

  • Traffic appears to only display incidents...not much beyond that.  
  • Location accuracy is a bit jumpy and broad, especially with Wi-Fi off.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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