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Lightning connector viewed as long-term investment, may not be replaced for 10 years - Page 2

post #41 of 53
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Slower than current technology allows (USB 2 vs USB 3)

 

REALLY?! So we can buy Dock Connector to USB 3 cables and get USB 3 speeds on them? Oh, what's that? No? Huh. Then why would you say that, I wonder? And when Lightning is looking very much like it could support not only 3 but Thunderbolt in the future, while Dock Connector will not, ever, I wonder what was the point of calling this out at all.

 

And an "expensive adapter"… how trite. I guess Dock Connector adapters going for the same amount at launch doesn't count, right? Right, of course. 

 

More attractive than Google Maps

 

Ah… that reminds me of something. Hang on a tick… oh, yes, Google Maps at launch. Which was more attractive than any other mapping system to date. But also had tens of thousands of problems, was missing entire cities, roads, had bad satellite data, and gave incorrect directions.

 

Sound familiar? Of course not. Because Apple "can do no wrong". So they should be flogged for being the first company in history to ever put out bad map data.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #42 of 53
lol seriously? that's all you got?

well, of course it is. because my main point stands, which is that both of these technologies were a step BACKWARDS and not FORWARDS. With this and their recent screw ups in the retail space, Apple is really frakking up recently. Dvorak predicted this would happen without SJ at the helm. Looks like he was right.

Try to process this now... people are pissed off at Apple not because of bad mapping data, but because they allowed their grievances with Google to overshadow their good judgment and release a product before it was ready. Do you get that??

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

REALLY?! So we can buy Dock Connector to USB 3 cables and get USB 3 speeds on them? Oh, what's that? No? Huh. Then why would you say that, I wonder? And when Lightning is looking very much like it could support not only 3 but Thunderbolt in the future, while Dock Connector will not, ever, I wonder what was the point of calling this out at all.

 

And an "expensive adapter"… how trite. I guess Dock Connector adapters going for the same amount at launch doesn't count, right? Right, of course. 

 

 

Ah… that reminds me of something. Hang on a tick… oh, yes, Google Maps at launch. Which was more attractive than any other mapping system to date. But also had tens of thousands of problems, was missing entire cities, roads, had bad satellite data, and gave incorrect directions.

 

Sound familiar? Of course not. Because Apple "can do no wrong". So they should be flogged for being the first company in history to ever put out bad map data.

post #43 of 53
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post
lol seriously? that's all you got?


well, of course it is. because my main point stands…

 

So rebutting your fallacious and/or frivolous points and… this is what you say. 

 

I guess that's one way to 'win'; never acknowledge any side but your own.

 

I get that YOU don't get what the actual reason for Maps is.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

My opinion is quite informed… to which I shall now demonstrate since you're clearly 12 years old and don't know any better…


If you're going to disrupt a clearly established ecosystem by changing a piece of hardware, that change should come with enough benefits that outweigh the negative aspects:


PROS:
Smaller
Digital


CONS:
Incompatible with billions of accessories
Expensive adaptor
Slower than current technology allows (USB 2 vs USB 3)
Removes features like audio and video out, features that I used.

As any reasonable person can see, this is a step backwards, not a step forwards.

I love the appeal to ignorance. So your saying that any reasonable person would agree with you is supposed to magically make it true?

Furthermore, you left off some of the key benefits:
more reliable
capability to connect remote devices
faster

You also included some cons that aren't relevant. For example, the existing cable is also slower than current technology allows, so it's not a con for Lightning when compared to the current 30 pin adapter.

Obviously, some people think it's a good idea. Personally, I like it - the 30 pin cable is large and clumsy.

But, if you really want to live in the past, try this:
http://scoopertino.com/apple-cancels-iphone-5-orders-rethinks-new-connector/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

And speaking of taking multiple steps backwards... let's talk about the new maps...

PROS:
More attractive than Google Maps
FlyOver
Turn-by-turn directions

CONS
Severely lacking in POIs
Localized maps severely lacking (Penn State campus, for example, totally barren now)
Turn-by-turn directions inferior to TomTom
Street View is gone
3D maps only in a few major cities
Biking paths are gone
Public Transportation is gone

Now what do these two examples have in common? They both took a SUPERIOR product and REPLACED them with an INFERIOR product.

There's really no way you can spin this, although watching you try will be very amusing to say the least.

And, again, you leave off Pros and add fake Cons (many of the things you cite are available for free from third parties, for example).

In the end, though, if Apple had a choice of offering nothing because of the loss of contract with Google vs the Apple Maps, then this solution is vastly superior. The fact is that you don't have any idea why Apple made the change or what their options were.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #45 of 53

I just gave you a clear and concise argument as to the reasons why the new maps suck and the new connector sucks. And instead of replying to the argument directly, you use smoke and mirrors, deflections, and a complete disregard for facts that are staring you right in the face.

 

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
So rebutting your fallacious and/or frivolous points and… this is what you say. 

 

I guess that's one way to 'win'; never acknowledge any side but your own.

 

I get that YOU don't get what the actual reason for Maps is.

post #46 of 53
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post
And instead of replying to the argument directly, you use smoke and mirrors, deflections, and a complete disregard for facts that are staring you right in the face.

 

I replied directly. Please explain how what I said was not a direct reply.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #47 of 53
LOL another worthless apologist. probably a shareholder. fake cons? that's all you got?

leave your bubble for about five seconds and look at the rest of the internet. everyone, even the apple faithful, is pissed off about the new maps.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/09/21/the-most-hilarious-fails-of-apple-maps/
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/20/tech/mobile/apple-maps-complaints/index.html

even David Pogue said the new connector is bullshit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/technology/personaltech/apples-iphone-5-scores-well-with-a-quibble-review.html

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I love the appeal to ignorance. So your saying that any reasonable person would agree with you is supposed to magically make it true?
Furthermore, you left off some of the key benefits:
more reliable
capability to connect remote devices
faster
You also included some cons that aren't relevant. For example, the existing cable is also slower than current technology allows, so it's not a con for Lightning when compared to the current 30 pin adapter.
Obviously, some people think it's a good idea. Personally, I like it - the 30 pin cable is large and clumsy.
But, if you really want to live in the past, try this:
http://scoopertino.com/apple-cancels-iphone-5-orders-rethinks-new-connector/
And, again, you leave off Pros and add fake Cons (many of the things you cite are available for free from third parties, for example).
In the end, though, if Apple had a choice of offering nothing because of the loss of contract with Google vs the Apple Maps, then this solution is vastly superior. The fact is that you don't have any idea why Apple made the change or what their options were.
post #48 of 53
Calling jragosta and ragging on Dick Applebaum ain't going to get you very far around here. But of course you're being paid to stop any discussions in their tracks by tossing out worthless arguments.

Another shill for Microsoft/Google/Samsung, take your pick or all of the above. You said a week ago you were going totally over to Windows. What are you doing here? Did you change your mind?
post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxhunter101 View Post

I understand the 'march to thinness' but I won't be getting an iP5 and one of the reasons will be the new connector. I have 3 speaker/payback units (1 clock radio

Let eBay be your friend. Apple will be producing products with the old 30 pin connectors for at least two more years, so there is a huge market still being fed new Apple/old connector products. I would guess it may be four years or more before accessories with the old connector will begin to lose their demand.... That's halfway through the projected life-span of the new connector.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #50 of 53
There is a technology called Flipper USB which allows for a USB to be inserted either way, to match the new pin connector I would have liked to see Apple adopt this at the USB end:

http://gizmodo.com/5587058/flipper-usb-works-any-way-you-plug-it


That too would have solved another problem.
post #51 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

[...] people are pissed off at Apple not because of bad mapping data, but because they allowed their grievances with Google to overshadow their good judgment and release a product before it was ready.

 

 

Bingo.  I'm glad Apple is developing their own mapping technology.  I especially like the use of vector graphics instead of bitmaps which should, theoretically, make screen redraws a lot faster.  I just wish they'd finished cooking it before serving.

 

I understand that Apple wants to part ways with Google, but taking away my steak and serving me a raw hamburger patty doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy towards Apple.  Sure, the Google steak was no tenderloin and the Apple burger promises to be gourmet yummy, but the fact is the burger isn't done.  It should not have been served YET.  Soon, sure, but not yet.  And in the meantime they could have continued to offer the admittedly flawed but at least mature and complete Google system.

 

THAT'S why people are choked.

post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

I just gave you a clear and concise argument as to the reasons why the new maps suck and the new connector sucks. And instead of replying to the argument directly, you use smoke and mirrors, deflections, and a complete disregard for facts that are staring you right in the face.

 

 

I've found that Tallest and I seem to have different approaches when it comes to making assessments and drawing conclusions.  We look at identical data and come away with very different views.  You may find the same is true for you.

post #53 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Let eBay be your friend. Apple will be producing products with the old 30 pin connectors for at least two more years, so there is a huge market still being fed new Apple/old connector products. I would guess it may be four years or more before accessories with the old connector will begin to lose their demand.... That's halfway through the projected life-span of the new connector.
I'm not sure I agree with this.

Next years new release of the iPhone and iPad will presumably knock the 4 off as the low-end phone and likewise with the iPad 2, leaving only the 4S and New iPad as low-end models. The Nano and Touch just got a refresh with the new dock connector, leaving just the shuffle and Classic. Chances are the Shuffle and Classic will get updates next year as well, or discontinued, and either way the Classic is the only one affected.

That leaves just two legacy devices being produced -- Apple likes to make things uniform, so depending on what it takes to convert a device to the new connector, I would not be surprised to see the New iPad and 4S updated to use the new connector. Why would Apple support two connection standards any longer than they have to? Depending on the engineering to change out the connector, wouldn't it save Apple substantially to build only one connector than to keep buying the 30-pin part in substantially lesser quantities and instead buy more of the 9-pin part in substantially greater quantities? Plus I have a personal desire to continue to see them offer the 4S form factor as an alternative size to the 5, which extended length I don't care for, in which case perhaps they will continue to update the internals of the 4S as well since it is otherwise essentially the same phone.

Either way, I don't really see Apple or third party manufacturers offering 30-pin accessories much past the release of the next iPhone. Even if Apple retains the 30-pin connector on the 4S and New iPad after next years updates, I would not expect them to continue selling many of the accessories, except what they ship with it -- the USB cable. They might keep the adapters around for another year, depending on what third parties decide to offer, but otherwise, let the third parties cater to the lega y devices.

But third parties are not likely to keep pumping out many new accessories for the 30-pin docking connector only for more than a year for what is otherwise a dying format. Most people who have 30-pin devices already have all the docks they need. If anything, I could see a 9-pin to 30-pin connector adapter developed by third parties to use with new docks for legacy devices. It would be a much more elegant solution to design a dock to convert the new tiny connector to a larger one, than vice-versa. So far Apple's adapters appear uni-directional. But as manufacturers drop the old connector, I would think reverse adapters would be in order (if not bi-directional), to use older devices with newer docks. Granted there is a huge installed base of devices that use 30-pin connectors, but if you have to license two connectors from Apple, I have to image manufacturers would choose the new one and let the legacy devices fall into the same category as all other smart phones have for years -- analogue 1/8" audio plug connection (if you don't want to purchase the adapter). Perhaps some of the high end docks will offer both connectors, but that makes for a clumsy dock.

What's interesting about this is how ubiquitous the old dock is. From gyms, to hotels. Higher end destinations will most likely replace the equipment with the newer connector after about a year, this dumping huge numbers of used equipment onto the market to supply the demand from legacy users, something new manufacturers must take into consideration. It's unlikely those businesses which cannot afford to upgrade their equipment would offer expensive adapters which could be easily stolen, this leaving that to the iDevice owner. But nevertheless, they won't be buying any more legacy docks. To the extent a third party company continues to manufacture new 30-pin only docks after next year, you can bet the number of offerings will be greatly reduced and the price greatly increased.
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