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Apple allegedly luring ex-Google Maps engineers to work on iOS 6 Maps app - Page 2

post #41 of 88
9/23/12 at 7:55pm
$85000 is not a good salary for top talent. Must be a mistake.
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post #42 of 88
9/23/12 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

with so much users, so much talent and resources, apple will have by far the best maps app in 2 years tops. google has no chance. next step? search. i want a decent and innovative search engine.

Don't get ahead of yourself. Google has over 7000 people working on Maps alone. Apple has a LONG way to go.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #43 of 88
9/23/12 at 8:09pm
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
Don't get ahead of yourself. Google has over 7000 people working on Maps alone. Apple has a LONG way to go.

 

It'll then be all the more embarrassing when Apple surpasses them. "Apple runs like a startup," Steve said, long after they became the richest company on the planet. Maybe that's part of why it works.

 

How many employees does Apple have at corporate, something like 20,000? They're keeping 1 Infinite Loop after Apple Campus 2 is built, but I figure they'll be getting rid of all the rented stuff they have right now.

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post #44 of 88
9/23/12 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

All Apple employees in Cupertino need to leave their Ferraris at home for the next week and use the new iOS 6 Maps application to get to work by public transit.

$85,000 a year in San Francisco Bay area and you think they can afford to drive Ferrari's?

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post #45 of 88
9/23/12 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

$85,000 a year in San Francisco Bay area and you think they can afford to drive Ferrari's?

They can't afford condos. 1biggrin.gif
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post #46 of 88
9/23/12 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's been vector based on Android for quite some time now, they could very easily make a iOS version.

Apparently since Dec 2010. But why isn't it on the desktop? It seems a little bit odd to go to all that effort and not use it more widely over a year and a half later.
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post #47 of 88
9/23/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp View Post

The quintessential localized search originates from an individual's awareness of his or her own comfort zone. And there is no one more sensitive to the world around than an Apple end user. Fresh data sets will pour in from the Apple crowd in no time, ...fair-weather friends notwithstanding of course.

People keep saying crowd sourced information will propel Apple to the forefront of local search but I don't understand how that happens since they don't control thier own data. They get their data from other providers so how does an apple user requesting dry cleaning service make its way up stream to improve Apple search results?


Edited by mstone - 9/23/12 at 8:57pm

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #48 of 88
9/23/12 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

The google maps in iOS 5 were garbage compared to android, anyway. Normally I take a middle line on these issues, but I think Apple made the right move taking this in-house. Not providing native public transit was a poor strategy, and I feel like a lot of users will be put out by this, but the Google maps in iOS 5 were frequently DEAD WRONG and that is worse than no implementation at all.
The maps app in any smartphone is a key piece of the user experience, and I think Apple will close the gap in due time.
Let's not forget, though, dear fellow Apple enthusiasts, that the Google maps app that we've been stuck with was always rubbish. At least now the future might hold some promise. It's a short-term loss, (potential) long-term gain, and the fact that Apple is sniping Google software engineers is a clear sign that Apple is taking this seriously, as they should.
To draw a circle around the point, however, maps are a core component of any smartphone and in-house development is the best strategy for a company that has the resources to do it. Apple has those resources, and they made the right move.

 

I think a lot of people were upset by not being able to use the alternative while Apple maps goes through its teething problems.  However, by taking away the alternative, it forced iOS6 users to put the app through its paces, and actually brought the weaknesses of the app to the forefront to be addressed immediately, rather than people simply stop using the Apple maps and going back to their comfort zone, the Google maps.  While I wouldn't necessarily agree with this strategy from a customer standpoint, it does ensure a more rapid improvement of a core app without waiting for the yearly upgrade cycle.  While I believe some people are upset with some inaccuracies depending on where they are, I believe most people are upset at the lack of the mass-transit related navigation (from reading these comments here).  In the end, Apple maps will catch up much more quickly to where Google maps is now rather than in small increments, which would be better for iOS6 users in the long run.  However, there is always that "in the meantime..." caveat.  One thing to always keep in mind with Apple is that they always have a plan.  Their goal is to sell the hardware, and they would not have jeopardized that goal with some foolish personal vendetta with Google.  This will be resolved quickly, but they need a little time.  The operating system just came out a few days ago and just to be sure, I looked outside, and the sky has not fallen yet.  Of course we still have a few months according to those pesky Mayans.

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post #49 of 88
9/23/12 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanSolecki View Post

The google maps in iOS 5 were garbage compared to android, anyway. Normally I take a middle line on these issues, but I think Apple made the right move taking this in-house. 

The previous map app was written in-house by Apple.

 

Apple should have asked Google to write a map app.

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post #50 of 88
9/23/12 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

$85,000 a year in San Francisco Bay area and you think they can afford to drive Ferrari's?

 

You couldn't even rent, much less buy a crack house in San Fran for that kind of money.

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post #51 of 88
9/23/12 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

People keep saying crowd sourced information will propel Apple to the forefront of local search but I don't understand how that happens since they don't control thier own data. They get their data from other providers so how does an apple user requesting dry cleaning service make its way up stream to improve Apple search results?

I'm lost on that myself. We don't have access to Apple's data set, so how are we going to improve it? We can complain about an error, but someone with access would need to actually verify the report and enter it. That said, my area seems fine save for a missing new campus for a local university. Hypothetically, adding a new road might work if enough people drive the road where the app doesn't show one, but there are limits to the idea of crowd sourcing.
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post #52 of 88
9/23/12 at 9:43pm
I was testing out the turn-by-turn navigation on iOS6 outside of Chicago. The target searches are all accurate. However the directions were way off. It kept telling me to make U-Turns where I could just make left turns several streets prior. It could be that Apple's data were not as complete as Google's
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post #53 of 88
9/23/12 at 10:29pm
The New York Times just posted a particularly salient article:

http://nyti.ms/NLrpSu

We are all definitely paying for this little feud.

I just did a search for Walmart on the Westside of LA, and was shown a Walmart in a single family dwelling in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

And I just realized I lost street view which saved me a couple of times.

Oh Apple ... Why? Why didn't you just work secretly in this until it was really ready. I'm sure you'll get it right in a couple of years, but that's not really an acceptable answer when you've been selling a product that worked so well before ...
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post #54 of 88
9/23/12 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Why didn't Apple start doing this 5 years ago? Why are they playing catch up now when there are more competitive options in the smartphone space? Seems to me Steve dropped the ball on this. By the time you're ready to go live with a map app it shouldn't be beta (or worse). The map app on iOS 6 just feels like its not ready for prime time.

 

Do we know exactly when Apple "started doing this"?

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #55 of 88
9/23/12 at 11:33pm
I must give Tim Cook credit for making such a brazen decision to dump Google products like that with homegrown replacements. This was a massive undertaking at Apple, and you can't expect them to get it perfect on the first release. I'm just wondering now what will happen with the YouTube app on Apple TV when iOS 6 is released for Apple TV.
Edited by PeterAlt - 9/23/12 at 11:43pm
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post #56 of 88
9/24/12 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Do we know exactly when Apple "started doing this"?
Well if they started doing this 5 (or more) years ago and this is all they have to show for it...
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post #57 of 88
9/24/12 at 12:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post

I must give Tim Cook credit for making such a brazen decision to dump Google products like that with homegrown replacements. This was a massive undertaking at Apple, and you can't expect them to get it perfect on the first release. I'm just wondering now what will happen with the YouTube app on Apple TV when iOS 6 is released for Apple TV.
But as an end user I could care less about Apple's feud with Google. I just wan the best map app possible and going from Google maps to Apple's replacement is a downgrade.
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post #58 of 88
9/24/12 at 1:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

The New York Times just posted a particularly salient article:
http://nyti.ms/NLrpSu
We are all definitely paying for this little feud.
I just did a search for Walmart on the Westside of LA, and was shown a Walmart in a single family dwelling in the middle of a residential neighborhood.
And I just realized I lost street view which saved me a couple of times.
Oh Apple ... Why? Why didn't you just work secretly in this until it was really ready. I'm sure you'll get it right in a couple of years, but that's not really an acceptable answer when you've been selling a product that worked so well before ...

 

I find it hilarious that there are double the amount of hits to Maps from iOS users compared to Android users. As in web-browsing, Android users does not seem to actually use their smartphones as actual smartphones. And to expect Google to willingly miss out on all that usage (and exposure to ads) by NOT delivering a Google Maps app for iOS ASAP would probably be wrong.

 

They will not have the balls to leave all those users (and revenue) on the table.

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post #59 of 88
9/24/12 at 1:56am

Tim & Co, please fix it! I love Apple!



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post #60 of 88
9/24/12 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

with so much users, so much talent and resources, apple will have by far the best maps app in 2 years tops. google has no chance. next step? search. i want a decent and innovative search engine.

 

My thoughts exactly.

Apple already made search on the desktop (and iOS) workable (without the ultra slow windows indexing and horrible interface) and promotes Wolfram Alpha.

Maybe internet search is the next big thing.

 

J.

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post #61 of 88
9/24/12 at 3:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


But as an end user I could care less about Apple's feud with Google. I just wan the best map app possible and going from Google maps to Apple's replacement is a downgrade.

 

You could see it like this: Google missed out bigtime by not releasing a standalone maps app on time.

 

J.

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post #62 of 88
9/24/12 at 3:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

 

You could see it like this: Google missed out bigtime by not releasing a standalone maps app on time.

 

J.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

 

My thoughts exactly.

Apple already made search on the desktop (and iOS) workable (without the ultra slow windows indexing and horrible interface) and promotes Wolfram Alpha.

Maybe internet search is the next big thing.

 

J.

 

 

finally someone who gets it..

 

what apple did to maps is already amazing, and they sure know how to do search.

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post #63 of 88
9/24/12 at 4:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

You could see it like this: Google missed out bigtime by not releasing a standalone maps app on time.

J.
Perhaps they didn't do it because they want people to come over to the dark side? Though I'm sure there will be one out there soon enough....assuming Apple allows it in the App Store.
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post #64 of 88
9/24/12 at 5:08am
I have seen many posts complaining about the problem being entirely with Apple and that they need a way to report errors. Is it just me, or is anyone else able to see the links in the App that say Data from TomTom and others and Report Problems which take you to a partial list of sources for data and some options for reporting various types of errors, Incorrect Search Results, Problem with directions, etc.
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post #65 of 88
9/24/12 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

 

You could see it like this: Google missed out bigtime by not releasing a standalone maps app on time.

 

J.

Not really. NOT releasing one at launch was intentional. Google doesn't ultimately care about your iPhone experience. Google was getting $$$ from Apple, now they will give it away and not get paid, why should they rush? They are enjoying the bad press Apple is getting over Maps, they aren't missing out on anything. Wait for a month or two when they do release it and act the savior of your maps. Ha.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #66 of 88
9/24/12 at 6:09am
I hope this isn't the same "connection" who said Google has submitted a maps application to Apple for iOS 6.
Edited by Postulant - 9/24/12 at 6:32am
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post #67 of 88
9/24/12 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Not really. NOT releasing one at launch was intentional. Google doesn't ultimately care about your iPhone experience. Google was getting $$$ from Apple, now they will give it away and not get paid, why should they rush? They are enjoying the bad press Apple is getting over Maps, they aren't missing out on anything. Wait for a month or two when they do release it and act the savior of your maps. Ha.

 

The new Google maps app will be ad driven, so Google will leave a lot of money on the table if they do not release it for iOS

 

J.

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post #68 of 88
9/24/12 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

People keep saying crowd sourced information will propel Apple to the forefront of local search but I don't understand how that happens since they don't control thier own data. They get their data from other providers so how does an apple user requesting dry cleaning service make its way up stream to improve Apple search results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'm lost on that myself. We don't have access to Apple's data set, so how are we going to improve it? We can complain about an error, but someone with access would need to actually verify the report and enter it. That said, my area seems fine save for a missing new campus for a local university. Hypothetically, adding a new road might work if enough people drive the road where the app doesn't show one, but there are limits to the idea of crowd sourcing.

Let me move sideway first...

Siri doesn't evolve in a vacuum. It steers data sets from third parties to end users, ...with the learning process taking root in actual usage patterns on a micro scale, ...a one on one relationship end user/Siri, thereby tipping ever so slightly the macro scaling of queries on a system-deep, and system-wide basis. In other words, Siri acquires the singularity of a single user and blends it into a singularity of the whole, ...and then feeds it right back to its point of origin as socio-economics and what-not coordinates. An intra-system loop of dynamical knowledge.

What has it got to do with Maps?

Siri and Maps are parts and parcels of the same knowledge flow chart within the iOS/OSX extended platform.The Siri microcosm helps to understand the evolution of the whole Apple universe, as well as its more obscure elements, ...such as Maps. Data sets are one thing; what gregarious people do with them engages a system wide, to-and-fro learning process on a natural, on a Darwinian...albeit accelerated by knowledge awareness, ...on a path to augmented cognitive reality.

I gotta say, it warrants...if you ask me...lightening up the load on sentience within the platform core on a lasting riddance of a Google dependency.
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post #69 of 88
9/24/12 at 6:50am
My opinion has changed somewhat of maps and very excited about the new engineers coming aboard to help Apple with a product which I feel will be the Bee's Knees.
After using maps this weekend on a 150.. mile trip - I learned about many wonderful features and one in particular; maps is never sleeping even when the locked screen is dark - maps will always light up and prompt when an exit is near. Annoying feature is Lag, which can be fixed - If lag is typical, then reverse it!
3)there are many wonderful features to experience built within maps and all we can do is just wait and see - and adjust for lag, forks in the road, incorrect street names, and not to worry about all the streets showing up from 1920 maps. Maps will get you there.
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post #70 of 88
9/24/12 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Please someone explain how Apple is going to overtake Google in mapping when the entire mapping trend is toward localized search and we all know who the king of localized search is. Apple does not stand a chance in this niche market because they don't own their data to begin with and they are dependent on others to deliver questionable data to them where as Google is constantly adding, in a massive scale, to their already huge database which they own and manipulate as needed.

 

 

It is possible. The whole point of Apple ditching Google is so that it can own its own data. Apple is accumulating data all the while denying Google the same data. I have seen it reported that Google makes half its money from iOS devices. Apple is now denying Google that data.

 

Instead, Apple is gathering data from Siri searches, location services, iCloud, Safari, and now Maps. It also has tons of data in regards to where people live, their credit card numbers, and what media they downloaded. 

 

Moreover, Google is famous for stealing its data and making enemies along the way. That is why Skyhook is currently suing Google. Companies like Yelp also complain of Google taking their data without permission.

 

Apple, however,  is partnering with companies like Yelp, Facebook, and Twitter, which will also bring it data. 

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post #71 of 88
9/24/12 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zomp View Post

My opinion has changed somewhat of maps and very excited about the new engineers coming aboard to help Apple with a product which I feel will be the Bee's Knees.
After using maps this weekend on a 150.. mile trip - I learned about many wonderful features and one in particular; maps is never sleeping even when the locked screen is dark - maps will always light up and prompt when an exit is near. Annoying feature is Lag, which can be fixed - If lag is typical, then reverse it!
3)there are many wonderful features to experience built within maps and all we can do is just wait and see - and adjust for lag, forks in the road, incorrect street names, and not to worry about all the streets showing up from 1920 maps. Maps will get you there.

 

 

Lag is related to Internet speed. The phone itself can render the data quicker than any GPS unit I have seen. 

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post #72 of 88
9/24/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

 

The new Google maps app will be ad driven, so Google will leave a lot of money on the table if they do not release it for iOS

 

J.

Maybe. You have a source? Or just pure useless conjecture.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #73 of 88
9/24/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Not really. NOT releasing one at launch was intentional. Google doesn't ultimately care about your iPhone experience. Google was getting $$$ from Apple, now they will give it away and not get paid, why should they rush? They are enjoying the bad press Apple is getting over Maps, they aren't missing out on anything. Wait for a month or two when they do release it and act the savior of your maps. Ha.

 

 

It also assumes Apple will approve it. 

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post #74 of 88
9/24/12 at 8:43am
I'm concerned about last year's botched SIRI launch and now this botched Maps launch. I hope this won't cause Tom Cook to get a reputation for not micro managing, as Steve Jobs was known to do. Well, Cook is not Jobs, and micro management isn't his style, but he does listen to his customers and he makes sure they ultimately get what they want. You can be sure he's already yelled at this people responsible for the Maps app, "Get this thing fixed... Like yesterday. I'm authorizing you to do whatever it takes!"
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post #75 of 88
9/24/12 at 8:47am
Originally Posted by PeterAlt View Post
I'm concerned about last year's botched SIRI launch and now this botched Maps launch.

 

I'm concerned that you think either was "botched".

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post #76 of 88
9/24/12 at 10:20am

Have Apple blocked your ability to go to the Google website, click maps and use them?

No.

 

Have Apple given you an option to use Google Maps OR Apple Maps?

Yes.

 

Did you pay for iOS6?

No.

 

I fail to understand what people are moaning about. Are you scared of change, choice or competition?

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post #77 of 88
9/24/12 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp View Post

Let me move sideway first...
Siri doesn't evolve in a vacuum. It steers data sets from third parties to end users, ...with the learning process taking root in actual usage patterns on a micro scale, ...a one on one relationship end user/Siri, thereby tipping ever so slightly the macro scaling of queries on a system-deep, and system-wide basis. In other words, Siri acquires the singularity of a single user and blends it into a singularity of the whole, ...and then feeds it right back to its point of origin as socio-economics and what-not coordinates. An intra-system loop of dynamical knowledge.
What has it got to do with Maps?
Siri and Maps are parts and parcels of the same knowledge flow chart within the iOS/OSX extended platform.The Siri microcosm helps to understand the evolution of the whole Apple universe, as well as its more obscure elements, ...such as Maps. Data sets are one thing; what gregarious people do with them engages a system wide, to-and-fro learning process on a natural, on a Darwinian...albeit accelerated by knowledge awareness, ...on a path to augmented cognitive reality.
I gotta say, it warrants...if you ask me...lightening up the load on sentience within the platform core on a lasting riddance of a Google dependency.

How do you suggest added landmarks? Do you just say "there is a gas station here" when the map didn't show one? And hope someone else confirms it?
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post #78 of 88
9/24/12 at 10:32am
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Are you scared of change, choice or competition?

 

That's such an interesting statement. The Anti-Apple Brigade is out in full force, claiming the removal of Google Maps is anticompetitive. 

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post #79 of 88
9/24/12 at 10:53am

Is "view-from-the-drivers-seat" an option in Apple's turn-by-turn navigation (as it is in Tom-Tom)? That is absolutely crucial for me. If they can do that AND fix the train stations in the ocean stuff (lol) I'd be interested. A Street-view type function would also be welcome.

 

Needless to say Maps will be a huge undertaking even for Apple. Still, early days for them in this department and given time I'm sure they'll do it right. 

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post #80 of 88
9/24/12 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's such an interesting statement. The Anti-Apple Brigade is out in full force, claiming the removal of Google Maps is anticompetitive. 

They clearly should get together and at least get their talking points straight.
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