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Disagreements over turn-by-turn directions prompted Apple to ditch Google Maps - Page 3

post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

BTW, I"m still waiting for you to provide the details of what Apple offered and what Google offered because you keep insisting that you know.

Right after you explain what the privacy problem with in-app branding is. Seems to be something minimal that for some reason Apple rejected, essentially demonstrating that they weren't up to negotiate anything.
post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


Because, as stated in the article, Apple did not offer terms of their own, they just passive-aggressively refused everything Google suggested. Essentially, Apple wanted the feature without giving anything in return.

 

Are you still at it? You, the person who claimed he only used smartphones for mapping software and that you were an iOS developer? Funny stuff.

 

Right, Apple wanted map data without offering anything in return. That's probable, isn't it? Not really. Yeesh.

post #83 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Except that was one of several suggestions, not exactly a demand. Apple, in the other hand, didn't make any suggestions of their own, they just denied everything Google suggested, in essence only accepting it if Google provided the service for free. That's not standing for your users' privacy or experience or anything at all, that's a purely political decision not made with users in mind. Google also suggested adding in-app branding. which apple refused, and strangely you didn't mention it. Why did you forget?

 

We only know what's being reported which, if accurate, would seem to be from sources inside Google.

 

We don't know that Apple didn't offer compensation for turn-by-turn directions, but it appears that it was Google that held out for location data which is something Apple isn't going to agree on.  Every time a privacy issue crops up in the press, Apple gets skewered over it, whether justified or not.  Remember the cell tower location data that Apple didn't download to their servers while Android phones did?  Google Latitude has far, far worse privacy implications to simply trust Eric Schmidt's dismissive assurances.

 

As far as in-app branding, that was never going to happen for a core iOS function.  If Intel couldn't get their "Intel Inside" stickers on Macs when Apple first switched away from the PowerPC processors, what makes you think Apple would acquiesce to having their mapping function branded by Google (of all companies)?  If branding is that important to Google, they can build their own Google Maps app, though knowing Google's modus operandi I'm certain no app will get more scrutiny than that one will.

 

They way I'm reading this (esp. in the past few hours), Google played chicken with Apple fully believing Apple didn't have any other options, and sometimes when you gamble you lose.  The amazing thing to me is the amount of hubris on Google's part to believe they could back Apple into a corner (ASUS style) and get whatever they wanted.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #84 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Turn by turn on an iOS device is not that useful. Unless you have dedicated mounting brackets in your auto so that the device is more at eye level, using turn by turn and looking down at the device sitting on the passenger seat or holding your phone while driving is a dangerous habit to get into. Personally, I have built in navigation in all my autos so I don't need it at all. I can see a case for all vehicles having built in navigation within the next 5 years or so. Perhaps this new Apple Maps service is the precursor to striking a deal with auto makers to provide built in iOS devices in the cars..

It's called using a mount. GPS devices have been using them for eons, and they've been available for smartphones and other devices for years. 

 

I have one that I mount to the windshield for my iPhone. It works just as good as any standalone GPS mount. 

 

Using the TomTom app and a mount, my iPhone 4S had no trouble navigating me from Florida to home in Pennsylvania when I flew down and drove home a car I bought. I also made a pitstop in Tennessee to visit relatives on the way. 

 

My only complaint with Apple is, I wish they'd allow iPod video out for the Maps app GPS usage with my JVC 6.1" touchscreen stereo in the car, like the MotionX GPS Drive app does. Then, I wouldn't need a mount, and the screen size is even better. 

post #85 of 89

Why should google given into apple? If you want a little you have to give a little. 

post #86 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

... The amazing thing to me is the amount of hubris on Google's part ...

 

Google is built on hubris, so no amount of it from them should ever surprise anyone.

post #87 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Right after you explain what the privacy problem with in-app branding is. Seems to be something minimal that for some reason Apple rejected, essentially demonstrating that they weren't up to negotiate anything.

Nice straw man argument. I never claimed that in-app branding was a privacy problem. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. You keep claiming that Apple didn't offer anything - but the article doesn't say that. All the article says is that Apple didn't offer anything that Google would agree to - which is an entirely different matter. Also, you keep saying that Apple is in the wrong here. Either way, you can only make those claims if you have access to the actual negotiations and can tell us what each side offered. So where is your evidence?


That said, in-app branding is not a privacy problem, per se. Where the privacy problems arise is Google's well-known efforts to track every bit of information about you and track your every movement in order to tailor advertisements to you.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #88 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


Right after you explain what the privacy problem with in-app branding is. Seems to be something minimal that for some reason Apple rejected, essentially demonstrating that they weren't up to negotiate anything.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Nice straw man argument. I never claimed that in-app branding was a privacy problem. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. You keep claiming that Apple didn't offer anything - but the article doesn't say that. All the article says is that Apple didn't offer anything that Google would agree to - which is an entirely different matter. Also, you keep saying that Apple is in the wrong here. Either way, you can only make those claims if you have access to the actual negotiations and can tell us what each side offered. So where is your evidence?
That said, in-app branding is not a privacy problem, per se. Where the privacy problems arise is Google's well-known efforts to track every bit of information about you and track your every movement in order to tailor advertisements to you.

 

 

I'd also like to add that, IMO, it was not so much the in-app branding as it was the missing features, and control over the data collection (Google Latitude) wherein lies the privacy problem. Regarding the features, i don't blame apple. Having their maps tied to Google, they could potentially ALWAYS be a step or two behind their competitors in a key feature. They probably wanted to be able to compete on a level playing field. Personally, I'm happy they did it. 

 

Regarding the second (data and privacy), sure, Apple collects data also, but by Apple collecting it and not Google, Apple knows what is happening to their customers data. With Google collecting it, Apple loses control of what happens to their customers data. It's all about controlling their users experience to how they choose.

post #89 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Yesterday I criticized Apple, but today I'm going to criticize Google, based on this new information.

 

Google basically told all Apple users to go and F*ck themselves. No, we will not provide voice guided navigation for Apple users, we want it exclusively for Fandroids. Apple users have to look at their screens while driving, and if they crash their cars and die, then too bad.

 

And remember, Google Maps app on iOS was also not vector based.

 

So then Apple told Google to go F*ck themselves, because Apple realized that they had no choice but to release their own Maps app.

 

The Apple Maps app has a very strong foundation, it's fast, it's smooth and it's vector based. As the Apple map app improves, with more and better data, then it will be quite good. Soon, 99% of all normal people, besides a few moronic Fandroids, will have forgotten all about Map-Gate, just as people have forgotten about all of the other "Gates" that came before that.

 

Apple really had NO CHOICE but to make their own Map app -- they were subject to the whims of Google and can everyone notice how Google Maps is "suddenly" getting updated? Apple has experience with this phenomenon with Microsoft, and they realized they were getting trapped in a box where they HAD to use google for maps and search.

 

Before a third party is indispensable -- it's the wise business move to make them replaceable. That doesn't mean we CAN'T use Google Maps -- it just means we don't have to.

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