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Google's "iLost" Motorola ad faked an address to "lose" iOS 6 Maps - Page 3

post #81 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Of course they were influenced by the media.
And "I have asked around" is not valid evidence. When you ask people in your fandroid club, what do you think they're going to say?
As I said, there is absolutely no valid evidence that you're any more or less likely to get an error with Apple's Maps than with Google's Maps or anyone else's maps. Maybe Apple Maps does have a big problem, but you can't tell that from the volume of whining on forums like this.

 

I have no idea where you get off thinking I'm in some "frandroid" club. Everyone in "my club" threw out there Android phones and NO one wants to go back...so strike one.  

 

As I said, I don't have a major problem with iOS maps, nor do I have a problem with people that do.  Obviously, you take it personally if people don't like things about iOS maps.  There are real problems though.  People telling me and showing me problems is evidence to me.  It doesn't have to be evidence for you.  You can have whatever standard you want.

 

But I won't stop trying to help my friends.  They come to me for help with computers and gadgets.  I tend to find it more friend-like to actually assist people as opposed to insulting their intelligence and telling them their problems are all made up and lack "evidence".  I'll continue to help people get more out of iOS maps, and you can continue to insult them.

post #82 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by venimdenim View Post

you can't be serious?  You think that all of the media/blog/personal coverage has been a sinister ploy spearheaded by Google to disparage Maps?  Take off yr fanboy blinders, little man

The bulk of that coverage is talking about the distortion in flyover. Not particularly important to anyone.
post #83 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

There's only no evidence if you ignore that fact that many people don't like it, and I have asked around.  Are they being influenced by the media?  Probably.

I've had my own issues when doing tests, though nothing I am terribly upset about it.  I was just testing it based on problems others had told me about and I had read about.  I did similar searches and experienced similar problems.  For me, it's no big deal.  But I don't like to dismiss what other people think as irrelevant or "noise".  I don't believe Apple will either.

There are alternatives, and like you said, nothing is perfect.  So I do think the media is blowing it WAY out of proportion.  



I think Motorola and other handset makers will make a play to the (real or imagined) dissatisfaction people have towards iOS maps in the hopes they can lure a few people to Android.  It sort of makes sense.  Android still has Google Maps and iOS does not.  If you trick yourself into thinking Google Maps was the only reason people had an iPhone, then you may convince yourself it's a good play.  I am sure they won't find much success. I gave up my Android for iPhone knowing full well I'd have to find a 3rd party to provide turn-by-turn navigation.  Navigation is a bonus for me and an anyone with an iPhone.  If its your reason for having a smartphone, you probably have an Android phone already.

The thing I see as desperate is other handset makers grasping at any straw they can find to try and chip away at the Apple juggernaut.  I honestly doubt there is much fear or desperation over iOS maps...yet. I am confident Apple will find away to take maps and navigation to a whole new place, and I am excited about that.  But that day hasn't arrived.  

I think Google is very desperate. They are losing a massive chunk of their mobile revenue. We don't know the specifics of their contract or if Apple still has to pay them for the next year, but whenever the money stops, Google loses a lot of mobile revenue.
post #84 of 268
If every other map app shows the location where such an address would be and the NYC building authority or whatever lists it as a potential address...and it is displayed in an ad...how exactly is that underhanded and deceptive?
post #85 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Another great, detailed article Daniel. Thank you
I've lost any remaining trust in Google. I've switched all my default search to Bing. It's actually pretty darned good. I recommend everyone giving it try

Done.
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post #86 of 268
also, since Apple maps can find the place if you use the zip code how is it a fake address?
post #87 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Bing Maps can find it.

[image]

Nokia Maps can find it.

[image[

We all know Google Maps can find it.

And somehow this doesn't expose a deficiency with Apple's Maps at all? Why can't Apple's mapping solution find it if its competitors can?

And if Google Maps gives you directions to Peter Pan's Neverland by telling you travel through the gumdrop forest on the yellow brick road does before stepping though the looking glass does that it a real place?

You must also think this is the best route to get from Point A to B because Google Maps says so.




For **** sake! There are plenty of legitimate things to compare Google Maps to Apple Maps where Google outright wins but to force an argument that maps that have false addresses are better simply because they include them is fucking unreal.

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post #88 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

If every other map app shows the location where such an address would be and the NYC building authority or whatever lists it as a potential address...and it is displayed in an ad...how exactly is that underhanded and deceptive?


Because it's using a non existent address giving off a false perception that the Apple maps is inferior, when in reality, using that same example, it's the MOTO device with Google Maps that is inferior. It's sending you to a non existent address.
Imagine you fat finger an address, or someone mistakenly gives you a wrong address (or you simply wrote it down wrong). lets say you are going to 1315 e 15th, or 315 e 115th... wouldn't you want your mapping software to correct you BEFORE you venture off so you can confirm the address, or just set you off driving to find yourself in front of a park?

post #89 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

also, since Apple maps can find the place if you use the zip code how is it a fake address?

Because without the zip code Apple maps is taking you to the most likely place you would want to be going. With the zip code, it is giving you the closest place it can find within the constraints you provided. I am not sure this is as hard to understand as you are pretending it is...
post #90 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And here's the REALLY funny part. I just typed "315 E 15th in Manhattan" (which is exactly the way they describe it in the ad) into my iPhone 4S with iOS 6 

 

The funny part is that if you actually LOOK at the ad it says "315 e 15th st ny"  

 

Not "315 E 15th in Manhattan"

 

if we're gonna be technical.

post #91 of 268
so if I'm understanding you all correctly...everyone else is wrong...Apple is right?

I guess it's possible...though unlikely.
post #92 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Of course they were influenced by the media.
And "I have asked around" is not valid evidence. When you ask people in your fandroid club, what do you think they're going to say?
As I said, there is absolutely no valid evidence that you're any more or less likely to get an error with Apple's Maps than with Google's Maps or anyone else's maps. Maybe Apple Maps does have a big problem, but you can't tell that from the volume of whining on forums like this.

 

What evidence?  How about the blank cities around the world?  How about the POI database that's only a fraction of the size of Google's?  With regards to the amount of data Google stores for maps I can't find a number more recent than early 2006, but at that time they had 70 TB of data.  I can only imagine that it has ballooned to petabytes by now.  Nothing you say will make me believe that any of the companies whose data Apple is borrowing have such a vast database.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

No.

 

I think they spent months pouring over the iOS beta releases, having signed up for the developer program under false pretenses, to find any "discrepancies" they could. That's pretty obvious from the fact that on the day of its release, they were ready with as many "discrepancies" as they could find, and this ad is the result of one of those "discrepancies". And by 'they', I mean Google. And by 'discrepancies' I mean misrepresentations when that's all they could come up with.

 

You really think that Google paid someone for months just to look through a database to find missing entries?  First of all, that takes minutes if not seconds as long you're leveraging the power of the computer that stores the database instead of doing it manually.  Second, no company in their right mind would do that simply to make an internet-based ad.

post #93 of 268
 
I've moved on from this MapCrapGate pissing contest... There are more important issues that need to be addressed:
 
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post #94 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

If every other map app shows the location where such an address would be and the NYC building authority or whatever lists it as a potential address...and it is displayed in an ad...how exactly is that underhanded and deceptive?

Because it is not an address? Because they claim you will be lost with the iPhone when the iPhone is the only device in the ad that is taking you where you wanted to go?
post #95 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

If every other map app shows the location where such an address would be and the NYC building authority or whatever lists it as a potential address...and it is displayed in an ad...how exactly is that underhanded and deceptive?

 

It's deceptive because according to the USPS it is not a valid address. You cannot mail anything there. No one owns that address. Maybe at one point someone did but not now. This means it would be extremely unlikely that anyone would ever need to put that address into their phone to find that exact address.

post #96 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

What evidence?  How about the blank cities around the world?  How about the POI database that's only a fraction of the size of Google's?  With regards to the amount of data Google stores for maps I can't find a number more recent than early 2006, but at that time they had 70 TB of data.  I can only imagine that it has ballooned to petabytes by now.  Nothing you say will make me believe that any of the companies whose data Apple is borrowing have such a vast database.


You really think that Google paid someone for months just to look through a database to find missing entries?  First of all, that takes minutes if not seconds as long you're leveraging the power of the computer that stores the database instead of doing it manually.  Second, no company in their right mind would do that simply to make an internet-based ad.

Lol, you think they didn't. Answer this then. How did they happen upon address no one would have searched for naturally?
post #97 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

so if I'm understanding you all correctly...everyone else is wrong...Apple is right?
I guess it's possible...though unlikely.

In this one case it is true. If you made that search from Manhattan, you are most likely trying to get to Brooklyn. Is it your contention that you are most likely trying to get someplace that does not exist?
post #98 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And if Google Maps gives you directions to Peter Pan's Neverland by telling you travel through the gumdrop forest on the yellow brick road does before stepping though the looking glass does that it a real place?
You must also think this is the best route to get from Point A to B because Google Maps says so.

For **** sake! There are plenty of legitimate things to compare Google Maps to Apple Maps where Google outright wins but to force an argument that maps that have false addresses are better simply because they include them is fucking unreal.

Calm down with the profanity! I know some people get passionate about this tech stuff but it isn't worth blowing a fuse over. 1smile.gif

For the record (in my experience), Nokia/Navteq have provided the best mapping solutions I've ever used and the services Nokia offer beat anything Google does on Android any day (Nokia Maps is a massive draw to me and my next phone will most likely be a Lumia 920 because of that).

Google maps gets things wrong. Its far from perfect and has issues just as Apple have been lately.
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post #99 of 268
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Ba ha ha ha ha! That's just so artfully done… lol.gif

post #100 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

Losing Google's YouTube App on iOS:
No biggie...we don't have to watch Gangnam Style

Losing Google Maps on iOS:
Millions of users in the Apple community disoriented...Apple, this is a monumental and fundamental part of what makes the iPhone or any smartphone a fledging Internet communications device. We have become so dependant on this in our daily lives and we take google maps as a feature that we pay for on iPhone having paid 1000's of dollars on products.

When the first iPhone came out, google maps was a primary feature and since then it always has been for millions of us. Now... Suddenly this smartphone is not so smart after all is it?

All we as customers want is some official statement regarding the situation so we can make calculated decisions in our own lives. The majority of users don't care about your beef with Google... We just want to know what's going to be done about this fiasco of epic proportions.

 

What kind of "official statement" do you want? They've already made it. Apple is obviously aware of the situation, improving it, and spending a ton of resources doing so. Are you naive enough to believe they will reverse course and re-instate Google maps after all resources they poured into this and their reasons for doing so? Or do you want someone from Apple to come to your house and bake you an apology cake? What exactly do you imagine will be done about this 'fiasco of epic proportions" (lol). It will improve over time, and eventually the whining will peter out and and stop. Meanwhile, people will move on with their lives and this will become a non-issue (like it is for 99.9% of people using the new maps). I'm not sure what kind of statement you want, or what exactly you think it going to happen apart from the obvious. Mapping the planet is..complex. There's no magic bullet. The online noise machine is having a blast eviscerating Apple about this and sensationalizing it as much as possible for obvious reasons, but out in the real world the majority of people are using it just fine. Most of the people behind the bitching are people who will never use Apple maps anyway, despise Apple with a passion, and now have a new hobby. Most of us have some perspective and realize the massively difficult task of what Apple is doing, and that it will take time. 


Edited by Slurpy - 9/27/12 at 2:30pm
post #101 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


Lol, you think they didn't. Answer this then. How did they happen upon address no one would have searched for naturally?

By using their computers to search for discrepancies between the databases, which along with an address would store the coordinates, and then choosing one of the discrepancies that was located in a highly populated area like NYC in order to make a meaningful (even if misleading) impression on the greatest number of people.

post #102 of 268
I plan to give up Google, already have Flash, I won't buy from Amazon. Anything else?
post #103 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

In this one case it is true. If you made that search from Manhattan, you are most likely trying to get to Brooklyn. Is it your contention that you are most likely trying to get someplace that does not exist?

everyone I know who is attempting to get to any borough from another borough enters the borough...if I entered that address while in Manhattan I'm attempting to get the some place in Manhattan...

Truthbetold it was deceptive only that it's an unlikely search...but all this BS about making up an address and underhanded and other BS FUD everyone loves to spread is ridiculous.

And based on a few posters here it seems Apple have already fixed this "nonexistent" problem.
post #104 of 268
What Google did wasn't dishonest and it wasn't an act of desperation. Apple Maps should have known the address was fake and not try to go looking for it. Google Maps wouldn't have been fooled by the same trick because their map database is several orders of magnitude more detailed than Apple's is. Google was simply driving that point home. Of course, the fanboys won't see it that way, because in their mind Apple can do no wrong.
post #105 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

I think Google is very desperate. They are losing a massive chunk of their mobile revenue. We don't know the specifics of their contract or if Apple still has to pay them for the next year, but whenever the money stops, Google loses a lot of mobile revenue.

This assumes Google made a lot off iOS maps. It is possible but not known.

I will admit that pulling something like this certainly makes you seem desperate. I am just not convinces they have a reason to be...yet.
post #106 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

This assumes Google made a lot off iOS maps. It is possible but not known.
I will admit that pulling something like this certainly makes you seem desperate. I am just not convinces they have a reason to be...yet.

In 2011 Google claimed that made 4 times the revenue from iOS as they made from Android. The assumption would be that some significant portion of that comes from the youtube and maps apps. If it is all from ads, wow, Android is in more trouble than we thought.
post #107 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I entered the same address on my iPad without any city, and the very first suggestion that pops up is the correct city.

Whoa, it is ESP.

post #108 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

What Google did wasn't dishonest and it wasn't an act of desperation. Apple Maps should have known the address was fake and not try to go looking for it. Google Maps wouldn't have been fooled by the same trick because their map database is several orders of magnitude more detailed than Apple's is. Google was simply driving that point home. Of course, the fanboys won't see it that way, because in their mind Apple can do no wrong.

Apple Maps found an address reasonably close by (like less than 20 miles away).
post #109 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

everyone I know who is attempting to get to any borough from another borough enters the borough...if I entered that address while in Manhattan I'm attempting to get the some place in Manhattan...
Truthbetold it was deceptive only that it's an unlikely search...but all this BS about making up an address and underhanded and other BS FUD everyone loves to spread is ridiculous.
And based on a few posters here it seems Apple have already fixed this "nonexistent" problem.

So again. Please tell me why you would ever be searching for that address if you did not want to go to Brooklyn? What possible reason would you have?
post #110 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

while i'm not championing the ad, and i do believe it is sleazy and misleading, perhaps they used that address because the address really is "an address" in the sense that if anything is ever built there there will already be an address assigned. it happens with vacant lots all the time, even if there is no structure.
even the new york city map website says it's an address. as opposed to an address that genuinely doesn't exist (take 681 E 38th St for example, which would be smack dab in the middle of the east river.)
edit: forgot to add that it is not lost on me that the nyc map site might rely on google maps, but on its face that does not appear to be the case.

Is it the address for the vacant lot? Just because it falls in the range for the lot doesn't mean it's the lot's address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smags View Post

Sorry, not a troll.


Both Apple Maps and Google Maps are try to search in your area unless you specify another locale. Nationwide, I would expect there would be a lot of West 15th Streets. You need to narrow it down by being in the general area or specify a city or state.
post #111 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And here's the REALLY funny part. I just typed "315 E 15th in Manhattan" (which is exactly the way they describe it in the ad) into my iPhone 4S with iOS 6 and it gave me the location of the NYC park at the corner of 2nd Ave and 15th St. So the address that Google was complaining about gives the same location that Google gives.
So now, when people enter that address into their iPhone to see what's going on, they can immediately see that Google is lying.
Um, I'm pretty sure Apple fixed this as soon as that ad appeared.

However, it is funny that Google would actually spend the ad dollars on something that they should have known Apple would correct the instant they became aware of the ad, thus making Google look like they were lying, whether they were or not.

What a bunch of Droids.
post #112 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur View Post

 

I agree. Try "coney island, brooklyn" with or without the comma. Gives you a bizarre location in Brooklyn, miles from Coney Island.

 

I don't know why Google/Motorola was stupid enough to use a fake address. There are plenty of real ones that don't work.

 


Yeah, like inputting "Columbia, SC" and getting Santiago de Cali in the country of Columbia.

 

 

Try searching for "Columbia, SC" in iOS 6 maps today... It returns the correct location... See how easy that was [for Apple] to fix?

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post #113 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 

Try searching for "Columbia, SC" in iOS 6 maps today... It returns the correct location... See how easy that was [for Apple] to fix?

1 down, 7,589,532 to go.  ;)  I kid, I kid.

post #114 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

What Google did wasn't dishonest and it wasn't an act of desperation. Apple Maps should have known the address was fake and not try to go looking for it. Google Maps wouldn't have been fooled by the same trick because their map database is several orders of magnitude more detailed than Apple's is. Google was simply driving that point home. Of course, the fanboys won't see it that way, because in their mind Apple can do no wrong.


maybe I am missing your point, but you are saying that Apple maps should have known this address was fake and not go looking for it, yet initially Apple maps didn't find it.  However, the other mapping engines did go looking for and find this "fake" address.  This sounds very backward.

post #115 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


And if Google Maps gives you directions to Peter Pan's Neverland by telling you travel through the gumdrop forest on the yellow brick road does before stepping though the looking glass does that it a real place?
You must also think this is the best route to get from Point A to B because Google Maps says so.

For **** sake! There are plenty of legitimate things to compare Google Maps to Apple Maps where Google outright wins but to force an argument that maps that have false addresses are better simply because they include them is fucking unreal.

 

Good job showing the walking route, which is cut by 6 hours if you go by ferries as shown here.

Now, before you start whining about Google Maps patronizing you, there is a "walking only"-route option too if you don't want to pay for the ferries.

 

And yes, I just registered here to highlight your spin-doctoring stupidity.

post #116 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Chen View Post

Isn't it better to take a non-existent address to somewhere that's close. If I was local, maybe I haven't been to the particular area but I would guess the general area of that address to be there like Google Maps shows. At least that's how I would give directions if a stranger comes up to me and asks for an address like that.

 

Close to what? Is Manhattan closer to NY than Brooklyn is? The point is that there's more than one "E 15th St" in "NY" 

post #117 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by smags View Post

I beg to differ but I'm in Manhattan and searching for "318 e 15st" gives me something near state college PA.  "318 e 15 st" gives me "no results found".

 

For me searching apple maps in NYC does not work.

 

I agree. Try "coney island, brooklyn" with or without the comma. Gives you a bizarre location in Brooklyn, miles from Coney Island.

 

I don't know why Google/Motorola was stupid enough to use a fake address. There are plenty of real ones that don't work.

 

 

That "bizarre location" is Coney Island Ave in Brooklyn, NY!

 

I live in the SF East bay area and tried "Coney Island" -- it found a valid  "Coney Island" located about 50 miles from where I live.

 

If you enter "Coney Island, NY" it will find the correct location...

 

So it appears that iOS 6 maps has a different search algorithm than iOS 5 maps... not better or worse -- just different!

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post #118 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

If the USPS doesn't list it as an address, it's not an address.  No matter what some Scandinavian company thinks.
And I guarantee if you send a letter to the Stuyvesant Square's address as given by Apple's Map app, it will be returned to you as undeliverable as well. The USPS is in the business of delivering mail, not collecting property taxes. I owned several lots joined together, each with its own address as far as the city was concerned, however, there was a single house on the lot with only one address the USPS acknowledged (I know because I rented out a guest house and tried to use the corresponding property address). Not only that, but the USPS requires a proper mail receptacle for delivery of the mail. You fail to provide one, or do not comply with regulations and your mail will be returned as undeliverable as well. Just because the USPS does not acknowledge an address doesn't mean it's not real.

https://tools.usps.com/go/ZipLookupResultsAction!input.action?resultMode=0&companyName=&address1=297+2nd+ave&address2=&city=&state=Select&urbanCode=&postalCode=&zip=10003

In fact, I used it to my advantage that Google provides property lot data to provide address at one residence where I lived on a corner lot and the main entrance was not on the property's official address. So I could give people the Google map location of the side street so they would park on the correct street and find the entrance easily. For those using my mailing address, they often got confused and had to walk out of their way.

As far as Stuyvesant Square is concerned, the NYC park service doesn't even assign it an address, so why would Apple? Google Maps doesn't assign it an address either.

So really, it's a matter of whether you prefer to have your addresses listed by property records, or by the USPS. I prefer the former as my own experiences have necessitated it. But I suppose if all you want to find are mailing addresses, then the latter way is preferred.
Edited by Mac_128 - 9/27/12 at 3:28pm
post #119 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

What Google did wasn't dishonest and it wasn't an act of desperation. Apple Maps should have known the address was fake and not try to go looking for it. Google Maps wouldn't have been fooled by the same trick because their map database is several orders of magnitude more detailed than Apple's is. Google was simply driving that point home..

 

"Several orders of magnitude more detailed", my arse.  Google maps was fooled into estimating where they though 315 should be on E 15th Street.

 

Newsflash:  If the USPS says it's not a valid address, it's not a valid address.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Of course, the Fandroids won't see it that way, because in their mind Apple can do no right.

 

Fixed.

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post #120 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 
I've moved on from this MapCrapGate pissing contest... There are more important issues that need to be addressed:
 
I've decided to offer special training for the new iPhone 5 EarPods -- the proper methods and procedures of reinstalling the EarPods into their specially molded holder and case.


[image]

Based on anecdotal experience and observation, there is a compelling need for this training...




I anticipate that it will be well received -- possibly equalling the enormously popular "Bidet For Dummies".

But it looks nice all wrapped up. I just through that casing out as I never again will attempt to use it. There might be a useful solution but that's not it.

As an aside, this is the first time Apple has shipped the plastic casing you get with headphones (at least with their in-ear phones) with the iPhone. It does look nicer but it's also extra waste in the packaging so if Apple did away with it for the 7th gen iPhone I'd prefer that.

I'd also like them to finally get rid of the wall charger because they are interchangeable and many other vendors are now using the USB-A EPS concept Apple has used for over 8 years now so I think people typically have plenty of these. It's not costly, but it does add waste, which is what the EU mandate was suppose to be reducing with their interchangeable EPS usage.


PS: I think this is the first iPhone that had extra printed material describing the features. I wonder if it's because some of them, like Passbook, are still a bit unusual for many to grasp.
Edited by SolipsismX - 9/27/12 at 3:22pm

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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Google's "iLost" Motorola ad faked an address to "lose" iOS 6 Maps