Apple CEO Tim Cook apologizes to customers for Maps in iOS 6 - Page 4

Sure it did. Mapquest. Paper maps.

Furthermore, Apple's Maps doesn't replace anything, either. You still have access to dozens of different ways to find directions.

It's not idiocy at all and it doesn't make a bigger issue out of it. As has been explained before, ignoring the issue simply cause the iHaters to be even louder.

Besides, I suspect that Cook has access to better PR advisors than you.


Then you just wasted a lot of electrons. I don't think there's ANYONE who has said that there's nothing wrong with iOS. There are quite a few (like me) who say that it does have problem, but that no one has established that it's any worse than Google Maps. There are others who say that it has problems, but that's to be expected in a v 1.0 product and it will get better. But I haven't seen a single person who says that it's perfect.

So please crawl back into your hole and take your ridiculous formatting with you.

That's nice. So why should anyone care?

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that Apple Maps has any more errors than Google Maps. So far, you haven't provided a shred of evidence to back that assertion. I'm also waiting for you to provide the minutes of the meetings between Apple and Google since you repeatedly made claims about who was at fault that could only have been made if you were present at the meetings.


If they wait very long, they might as well not bother. Apple Maps is already very good and the rate of things being fixed will improve over time. Furthermore, the noise about this issue will die down pretty quickly.

Even today, the majority of people don't have any problem with Apple Maps. When Google releases their own app, it will be a 1.0 product, as well, so they may have some of the same startup problems. At that point, the only people who are likely to use the Google App are the rabid Apple-haters -- and most of them are already buying Android phones.

 

What's your point? They're doing just what he said there: OSM is their backend. 

Times change. At the time, Google was pretty good at Maps for iOS. Since then, Google has shown their unwillingness to support iOS, so there's no point in sticking with them. The moment that you think you can do better than your partner, it's time to make a change. And with Google's blatant disregard for iOS users, that moment has come.

 

Things change.

 

Google played hard ball and wanted terms Apple couldn't agree with.  They wanted to further integrate the iPhone into the Google ecosystem.  They left Apple the choice: give Google more control or start over.

 

What Steve Jobs said about iTunes is probably more relevant.  When necessary, Apple will take the steps to move things forward, even when it isn't easy.  If anyone has the leverage and money needed to replicate and improve on the Google ecosystem, it is Apple.

 

 

Yes, except the new Apple Maps App looks beautiful. It is point of interest data that has issues. People stacking the apps up to in store are going to prefer Apple Maps. 

Will using maps really help improve it? I am a little skeptical of that. So far I have only used it a few times and it steered me correctly. But hypothetically if it was clearly taking me to the wrong address I would just switch to Mapquest or Waze to get where I needed to go. I can't imagine remembering later to go back to Apple maps and report an error. Furthermore, I would be in a car at the time very likely or busy and wouldn't be able to report it at the time it happened. Do any of you really think user reported errors will really help improve it dramatically or quickly? I think people are far too lazy, forgetful, or busy to really report many errors without some sort of incentive like app store credit for example. For every 10 errors reported for example you get $1 of store credit to buy an app. Now that might actually work although there would need to be a verification process for malicious reports. 

 

Here is another suggestion for Apple. Since they use Yelp which has a far smaller database than Google, there needs to be a simple and easy way to add waypoints to Maps from your phone or computer. Tying that in also with adding reviews to the business would also be beneficial. Waypoints like restaurants, gas stations, stores, etc.. are probably almost as important as directions on a Map app especially in an unfamiliar city so they can't ignore that defect either.

That's not a replacement, those solutions continued to exist with all their feature thus giving you choice in the cases where Google Maps failed.


Yes it does, it replaces Google Maps as the core Maps app on iOS, meaning no more integration with Contacts, Reminders, Calendars, Siri, etc., and as such, deserves to be compared to Google Maps.

Well its obvious to everybody the Apple Maps app was not ready for public use. If Apple did not want to use Google Maps app they should have found a better third party solution while they worked on their own inadequate program. 

 

Adding to Tbell...

 

It also assumes a major motivator for people are buying phones is to replace their stand alone GPS.  People have been buying iPhones for years WITHOUT turn-by-turn navigation!  

In my experience(which is limited)- I always had issues with the google source of maps... addresses were wrong for alot for little shops etc. Lost a lot of time due to these errors.

 

For the Apple maps... haven't used it much but it isnt anymore quirky than any other mapping program. If I have an address is in my contacts - I tell Siri route to home etc... and it routes to home etc. Cool! Do miss streat view though.

 

IMO - just to bring up the ghost of Apple past... IMO Steve J would not have apologized so quickly if at all. And if he said anything, would have said the vast majority of iOS users have no issues (which I bet is true... many because most dont use maps). And would have never said use a competitors application. Yes the blogs would call him 'names', but he is looking out for Apple.  Apologizing and telling someone to use alternative apps does make people(who probably never heard of this map issue) 'want' to go to Apple. They think... hey Apple admitted they screwed up and put our a crap product(whether they did or not) why should I buy Apple products?

 

Never say your sorry regarding a products expectations.... kiss of death.

 

 

Do people really think Jobs didn't know Apple was doing Maps? He was there when they bought three mapping related companies? Moreover, Apple has partnered with 3rd parties to create its Map App. Tom Tom, Open Street Maps, and Yelp. 

He certainly didn't know the state in which te app would be released to the public, and would have stepped in to stop it if he was there, because the app sucks.

So this crowd sourced info is automatic? Is Apple keeping track of what parts of the world I am searching and where I am located all the time? Or is your description of crowd sourced the fact that there is a report a problem button. I would draw a distinction between simply using the Maps app and actively contributing to updating the data. If they are tracking me then that is going to be a security issue. I think they really need to define what they mean by "It gets better the more people use it".

Actually, it happens quite a bit. If you pay attention, you'll see quite a few stories where people report that problems have been fixed after they complained.

Just as you still have alternatives for Apple's Maps if it fails. So there's absolutely no difference. When Google's Maps was the standard, you had exactly the same third party options that you have now. In fact, Apple has even more options - since Google is now a third party alternative. So you have MORE options today than you did a month ago.

Except for one problem. Google Maps did a lousy job of integrating with the iOS ecosystem while Apple Maps does a better job. So Apple Maps is actually better in that regard.

Oh, you mean that Apple Maps won't drag you kicking and screaming into the GOOGLE ecosystem. That's sort of the point, isn't it?



BTW, I'm still waiting for you to provide that evidence that Apple Maps is statistically worse than Google Maps. I'm also still waiting for you to provide those minutes of the Apple-Google meetings which your posts indicate that you must have access to.

I am sure if Apple wanted to get Google Maps to work with OS 6 they could have gotten that straight out before OS 6 was released. Please don't be so stupid. These CEO's have big ego's and they don't want to concede anything to each other. They complete in the marketplace and if Larry Page can make Tim Cook eat crow for a few weeks he will celebrate that victory in private. How do you think Google feels about Apple "stealing" Google mapping software engineers?

In fact a few days ago Larry Page indicated they could have resolved this before OS 6 was released, but Apple did not want to meet Google's terms of use so Apple balked. In the end its us the Apple the faithful customers who will suffer. 

 

No.  Crowd sourced in the sense that users report errors.  The only real-time data they collect, ANONYMOUSLY, is traffic information.

What is the alternative core Maps app that integrates with Contacts, Calendars, Reminders, and Siri on iOS 6? My "alternatives" are crippled, something that didn't happen with Google Maps' alternatives, hence the flaw in the analogy.

By the way, just to stop this already derailed train of thought, let me remind you that all analogies are flawed in nature due to being inferences from the particular to the particular; they can only be used when all the parties in a debate agree with them, and since I do not agree that Google Maps replaced anything else the same way Apple Maps is replacing Google Maps on iOS, you can not use or defend that analogy.

The good thing is that this is a software issue.  The iPhone5 hardware seems to have drawn no major issues, merely inconveniencing users for a short time while they soon click "update OS" and everything will be dandy.  We have advanced so far yet people do not understand the concept of "early adopters".

So it is like, the more people fix our maps the better it will become.

My problem with maps isn't so much accuracy as the lack of quality satellite data in the UK. Given that Google doesn't have satellites and they just buy this stuff from other companies, I can't see why Apple doesn't have comprehensive satellite data. Maybe they ran into problems integrating it all. In my experience, all these mapping services, including Google Maps, are inaccurate when it comes to locating addresses, but Google Maps had quality satellite data and Street View so you can figure out what the marker hovering in the middle of nowhere is really referring to by exploring the local area. This, of course, is less than ideal but it beats having to actually go there, so it's useful. For me, comprehensive, high-quality satellite imagery would solve most of Apple's maps problems.

As you know, it's not tracking you. Furthermore, even if they were tracking you, they would have no way of fixing their maps based on that data. If your home's real address is 1 Main Street, but Apple has it listed as 11 Main St and you go home, Apple simply thinks you went to 11 Main St and wouldn't have any reason to change the data. The only way that they change data is if someone reports it and they can verify it in some way.

So "it gets better the more people who use it" might be better phrased as "it gets better as people report errors", but if the percentage of people who reports errors stays constant, either statement amounts to the same thing in the end.

 

How do the contents of this video differ from what Apple is doing?

 

That's how Google Maps got better.

 

I'm stupid?  Your grammar is ridiculous.

 

1. My point is that Google Maps DOES work in iOS 6.  Via the browser.  It looks identical to the Maps app from before.

2. If you think this is a pissing match only, and it's all about ego - then you're the stupid one.  Follow the $$.  When in doubt, always follow the $$.  

3. Apple hasn't "stolen" engineers.  Apple is hiring FORMER Google Map engineers.  FORMER. That means they once worked for Google but no longer do, in case you're confused.

4. Larry Page hasn't comment on this, to my knowledge. I think you mean Eric Schmidt, when he commented about Apple parting ways and they "were shocked."  

5. Those so-called "terms of use" you're referring to are Google branding, Google controlling the user experience, and Google harvesting the users data.  None of which benefits YOU or more importantly, Apple.

 

Bottom line, Apple learned its lesson from the 90s.  Don't let another company control your destiny.

deleted

Edited by MacRulez - 1/21/13 at 3:13pm

I did forget. Thanks for the reminder! Not being sarcastic.

 

Have you never reported a Google map error?  I have.  And they fixed it.  That is all Apple is saying, they will improve as errors are reported.  Maps change frequently, businesses move, etc. Apple AND Google depend on users to report those errors.  

 

This isn't new, my friend.  NO company can do this alone, they depend on users to report issues.

 

Nobody seems to realize or remember this ^^^

 

No. Wrong. Apple must be perfect. Immediately. And on their own.

 

😒

The image on the right will become the image on the left because apple will focus on the most searched places and build directions around them.

That's like starting a new Wikipedia that sucks, forcing people to use it, and telling them it will get better if they continue to use it when everyone can consult the original Wikipedia. I don't use Wikipedia to contribute to it, I use Wikipedia to gain a general understanding of things; I don't absolutely trust Wikipedia, but I hold it to a much higher standard than I would hold a newly formed concurrent crowdsourced encyclopedia. That is the problem with Maps, I don't trust Apple Maps, so I don't want to use it and I don't care about reporting issues about it when Google Maps has a much more complete database to which it is a lot more productive to contribute because having one complete database is better than having many incomplete ones.

Apple is becoming just like MS since they are rapidly gaining marketshare. It's all about PUSH THE UNFINISHED BUGGY PRODUCT OUT and we'll deal with it later. Shame shame Apple.

The second post down is the most obvious and intuitive.

Apple had a year left to go on their license with Google Maps.
They knew their map app was not up to their usual standards.
Apple knows they have to offer competition in the App Store anyway.
They should have put Apple Maps on the Home page by default install of iOS 6 and removed Google Maps, as it did. And then make the old iOS 5 Google-based Maps app available for download via the App Store, just like they did with iBooks.
In a year, Google Maps would have gone away completely under iOS 7, or Apple could have at any time during the next year, pulled it from the App Store, and avoided this whole thing surrounding the introduction of iPhone 5.

It actually makes more sense as people would see the advantages of Apple's App with turn-by-turn directions and the better interface. Since many here are reporting Apple's Maps works perfectly for them, they would never download The Google version, and Apple would still have the growth they need. Still yet, many customers don't know the difference and haven't been following this in the media, would just use the Apple app by default, never realizing it had been switched.

For what many claim is the vocal minority, they would have been appeased by being able to download the Google App, which Google is going to make available in a couple of months anyway. Eventually, they would be dissatisfied with the limited features of that app as their friends and co-workers gloat about the superior features and turn-by-turn directions of Apples App. And lets face it, Google doesn't have a 10th the expertise of designing Apps on iOS, so their first attempt would have been lame anyway. By that time Apple's Maps would have improved substantially, and won over many of the old Google Maps users.This whole media frenzy would have been avoided, and Apple would have ultimately gotten what they wanted. Now, Google is going to bend over backwards to make sure their effort is as good as or better than Apple's. And the media has made customers who would have never been aware of the problem aware, and made the problem seem far worse than it is. cook's apology letter only feeds into it. The pooch has been thoroughly screwed.

In my mind I don't see this any differently than the Internet Explorer debacle where Microsoft tried to force their browser on their customers -- a move from which i don't think MS ever recovered. There are other Map apps on the Apple Store, and there appears to be no reason Apple couldn't have offered the old Maps app as well, except Apple wanted to stick it to Google and catch them off guard. And if Apple wants to play these kinds of corporate games, at the expense of its customers, then they get what they deserve. They gambled, but it didn't pay off this time. They are "big boys" and knew what risks they were running when they chose this course.
Edited by Mac_128 - 9/28/12 at 9:19am

 

It is understandable how that choice would be the best short-term solution for some people like yourself.  

 

Apparently, Google and Apple were unable to negotiate a "solution" acceptable to both parties to provide the services and data that Apple needs for a first-class iOS mapping feature.  

 

Given that -- it appears that Apple took the appropriate action:

1. build its own mapping solution
2. negotiate better agreements with alternate suppliers of map data and services
3. incorporate the means to flesh out Apple's data and services

 

So, for some loyal Apple customers this an inconvenience and a step backwards -- temporary, but nonetheless a step backwards.  

 

With iOS 6 maps, Apple now has under its control what it needs to offer the best mapping solution in the [reasonable] near future.

 

As Tim stated in his letter:

 

These are pretty big numbers

• a "half a billion" search requests in 1+ weeks...
• a "half a billion" search requests that returned some, valid, invalid or no map data...  
• << "half a billion" search requests that have been follow-ons to unsatisfactory searches...  

 

Now, we know Apple is logging all these searches!  The search data,  return data and search patterns (follow-on searches) can be analyzed by computer to quickly focus on problem areas that need attention, e.g.: 

• "Where were you when you made the search?"
• "Why was no Address found?"
• "Why did you make an additional search with slightly modified search terms?"
• "Why did you make a right turn followed by a U-tern when I told you to make a left turn?"
• "What problems were reported?"

 

By having access to all of the data, Apple now has the ability and opportunity to refine the maps experience.

 

Apple never had that the ability and opportunity with Google and iOS5 maps.

 

Shunting, those 2 billion searches (per month) back to Google would defeat the opportunity for Apple to build a superior maps experience.

 

 

I suspect that we are in for a bit of a bumpy ride for a while -- but in the end, we will be rewarded for our patience and inconvenience...

 

It's an investment!

Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/28/12 at 11:14am

Some five years into the past, Apple signed a contract with the devil's second-in-command, ...who happened to be sitting on Apple's Board at the time. And now the devil itself comes in to claim its dues.

A dent of  in a reputation, ...freedom as a prey.

Fair deal for everybody,  lest you were second-in-command...for you alone bear the weight of eternity...

Yesterday, I drove from Orange County to Santa Monica with iOS 6 Maps and my iPhone locked (listening to Siri for turn-by-turn directions). My iPhone 4S was fully-charged before I left and by the time I reached my destination I was down to 35% battery life. I probably spent two hours driving factoring in morning traffic.  It got me wondering how practical turn-by-turn is over 3G -- or at least with Apple's current implementation.

 

Maybe when I use turn-by-turn more often I will notice this to be an anomaly, but I did find it concerning.

Edited by Negafox - 9/28/12 at 9:23am

 

Funny how that's just not the case at all, you know? And we're supposed to sit idly by and let people actually post this drivel.

 

That actually is how it should work, at least according to the WWDC videos I saw. Install an app and the app's transit directions can appear in it's app, or when you are in the area,  the Apple maps app. Obviously this would mean the app would cost, as they can't advertise in Apple's app.  And they need to use the proper API.

Notice that while Tim Cook signed his name to his letter, the Retail VP John Browett has yet to put his name on any public statement regarding his decisions affecting Apple Retail Stores.

Well in either case the aerial imagery will not improve unless Apple leases better data. I would suggest buying Geo Eye. Current market cap GEOY 593.49M. Then TomTom with a current market cap of 1.05B. Also Yelp which recently rejected a $500 M offer from Google. If Apple bought those companies they would truly have their own data and a platform from which they could continue to grow. The current collection of third party vendors is not sustainable in my opinion. I think we will see a repeat of this same scenario a couple years from now when Apple can no longer depend on its providers.

 

I think he did... someone dumped 666,000 shares of AAPL at open... now @Arthur123 will have lots of time to bitch and moan about Apple!