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Apple CEO Tim Cook apologizes to customers for Maps in iOS 6 - Page 5

post #161 of 370
For Tim Cook the CEO apologizing then the negative feedback must be far greater than the 4-5 negative Fandroids posting here on AI. I'd venture it must be catastrophic.
post #162 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Funny how that's just not the case at all, you know? And we're supposed to sit idly by and let people actually post this drivel.

I actually disagree with that. Have you used Safari lately? It's unusable, lots of rendering issues when Javascript is involved caused by "tweaks" to increase the number of threads in WebKit, memory leaks all over the place resulting in a Webprocess that sometimes privately allocates as much as 6GB of RAM on my Mac, HTML5 local storage data that doesn't go away while Private Browsing (making Private Browsing actually LESS private than regular browsing), and this is just for Safari. The Darwin kernel has been suffering from Bluetooth induced panics since at least Lion which are yet to be fixed, reminders were completely unusable to me when Mountain Lion launch because my street name has non-ASCII characters that completely crashed the application (same thing causing issues to the search in iOS 6's Maps), Notes and most stand-alone small applications privately allocating 500MB of RAM for God knows what (which is amusing, considering that Mail which has a lot more functionality stays stable at 300MB and iTunes stays stable at 500-600).

Things may look as pretty as ever now, but Apple is becoming pretty sloppy in the quality department.
post #163 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

For Tim Cook the CEO apologizing then the negative feedback must be far greater than the 4-5 negative Fandroids posting here on AI. I'd venture it must be catastrophic.

 

We aren't used to an Apple CEO behaving like the CEO of some Android OEM or Wintel junk-box maker. 

 

Given Apple's sheer product strength, this is just a blip on their radar screen. It isn't catastrophic. But it is a little disappointing. 

post #164 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post

lol!
Just let us download the fully working version of Google Maps that we had from iOS 5....

Apple isn't the copyright holder so they can't just release it. google needs to submit an app etc. Google who should have been working on it since the day Apple didn't sign a lifetime contract, or when they started buying map tech companies

What I love is if you read between the lines. The message then it more of a 'this is brand new but if you want to be a hater just go use something else. We aren't stopping you.' which in a way is what I wish Apple would just flat say. Remind folks that new things in tech are never perfect even at Apple and they need to chill with expecting that every time. Remind them how long Google has been perfecting their maps compared to this 'from the ground up' system.

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post #165 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


I actually disagree with that. Have you used Safari lately? It's unusable,

 

LOL thanks for the anecdote. 

 

Safari performs brilliantly, actually. So there's *my* anecdote. 

post #166 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by na1ya View Post

"The more our customers use our Maps the better it will get"


I don't understand. If we keep using Maps, the image on the right will gradually become the image on the left? How is that possible?

Feedback. Not everyone who finds something off just runs to the web to gripe. Some actually 'report a problem'. Maps or otherwise.

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post #167 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyc View Post

Classy. They were really caught in a no-win situation - the needed their own maps solution in the market, but to make it world-class, it needed users, which they can't get until they launch it, but launching it means replacing an existing excellent solution. . .around and around.

Yep, rather like Siri-gate last year. They needed literally millions of voice samples and could either release it or not and hope none of the millions of actors etc they hired leaked what they were doing. And that they could find sufficient variety to be useful.

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post #168 of 370

This is not Apple's fault.  Google will never make a Map app for iOS.  Because it can not make one Map for iOS which is drastically different from the one on Android.  It will bring bad publicity to Google too.  

 

Apple's 'route' is correct.  Google is determined to make Android succeed over iOS.  Some iOS6 Map users will experience short term inconvenience.  In the long term Apple will succeed because it has tremendous resources.  This is the reason I am sticking with Apple this time.  In the Windows era I stick with Apple because MacOS is better.  Apple is having a completely different competitor than Microsoft.   

post #169 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

These are pretty big numbers

  • a "half a billion" search requests in 1+ weeks...
  • a "half a billion" search requests that returned some, valid, invalid or no map data...  
  • << "half a billion" search requests that have been follow-ons to unsatisfactory searches...  

 

Now, we know Apple is logging all these searches!  The search data,  return data and search patterns (follow-on searches) can be analyzed by computer to quickly focus on problem areas that need attention, e.g.: 

  • "Where were you when you made the search?"
  • "Why was no Address found?"
  • "Why did you make an additional search with slightly modified search terms?"
  • "Why did you make a right turn followed by a U-tern when I told you to make a left turn?"
  • "What problems were reported?"

 

By having access to all of the data, Apple now has the ability and opportunity to refine the maps experience.

 

Apple never had that the ability and opportunity with Google and iOS5 maps.

 

Shunting, those 2 billion searches (per month) back to Google would defeat the opportunity for Apple to build a superior maps experience.

 

 

So they are not tracking me? Or they are tracking me? Which is it?

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post #170 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Tim, sir, really no need for an apology. I believe the customers who are happy with the new Map(p)s vastly outnumber the people who are discontent. Who, by the way, can get around any shortcomings, like you point out yourself.

But the unhappy ones are the vocal ones. So this letter, which rather half ass apologizes, is an attempt to shut them up.

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post #171 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

 

I'm stupid?  Your grammar is ridiculous.

 

1. My point is that Google Maps DOES work in iOS 6.  Via the browser.  It looks identical to the Maps app from before.

2. If you think this is a pissing match only, and it's all about ego - then you're the stupid one.  Follow the $$.  When in doubt, always follow the $$.  

3. Apple hasn't "stolen" engineers.  Apple is hiring FORMER Google Map engineers.  FORMER. That means they once worked for Google but no longer do, in case you're confused.

4. Larry Page hasn't comment on this, to my knowledge. I think you mean Eric Schmidt, when he commented about Apple parting ways and they "were shocked."  

5. Those so-called "terms of use" you're referring to are Google branding, Google controlling the user experience, and Google harvesting the users data.  None of which benefits YOU or more importantly, Apple.

 

Bottom line, Apple learned its lesson from the 90s.  Don't let another company control your destiny.

By the way, Allenbf. here is your first sentence: "How can he get the Google app available now?"  

Is this grammatically correct English?

 

Everybody is a "former" employee after they leave firm "A" to go work for firm "B". 

Most users want a simple application which takes the to what they want to do.

If using Safari gets you Google Maps, then Apple should create a simple automation app which does that function in one step and call it Google Maps or something. 


Does using your browser limit what Google can do with branding or data harvesting?

Does this allow Apple to control its destiny?

 

No matter what you or anybody tell me, Apple should not have released their mapping program without fixing all these image issues. It was not ready for public use. 

In light of that video I saw I don't think Steve Jobs would have released the Apple Maps app in its current poor state.

The situation is also affecting the stock price. I know of several people who have put off upgrading to the new phone in spite of the Safari solution you mentioned. 

post #172 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Notice that while Tim Cook signed his name to his letter, the Retail VP John Browett has yet to put his name on any public statement regarding his decisions affecting Apple Retail Stores.

Which decisions concern you?

post #173 of 370

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 1/21/13 at 3:13pm
post #174 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

LOL thanks for the anecdote. 

Safari performs brilliantly, actually. So there's *my* anecdote. 

That only tells me you haven't used it, otherwise you would know, because the experiences that I report are common to everyone using it. Do you want me to provide you with a very common use case where Safari fails so you can verify it for yourself and stop calling an anecdote or will you admit you're lying and not reply to my post out of shame?
post #175 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's my view. I STILL haven't seen any evidence that it's any worse than the other solutions out there. A few anecdotal reports (including those fabricated by Google) are not valid evidence.

It is worse than some of those 15 year old offerings. But that's the key. Those boys have been working on this longer. As Tim says 'from the ground up'. Like Final Cut X etc, when you go back to ground it is insane to expect perfection the moment something is released. Tim left out the 'insane expections that this would be perfect from the start compared to stuff from companies that had more time to be perfect' part of his letter. Likely because he's not the CEO of Samsung so he doesn't insult users by calling them stupid to expect so much from the start. Wise move on the one hand, mistake on the other. Cause Apple needs the world to reset their expectations about perfection in products overall. Perhaps with a reminder that it was the same when Steve was around. And no one is making them buy Apple, so the haters can shut it.

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post #176 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Steve only wrote letters when he wanted to push the human race forward. When something Apple would never do was happening or when something that didn't directly affect users was happening.

Tim doing the same would have resulted in a letter while Google was still the mapping service. In it, he would have made public the reason Apple made their own maps (Google refusing to provide turn by turn, as an example of something we still don't know), as well as their plan for the future thereof. 

Doing THAT preemptively would have removed most of the legitimate complaints with the service at launch and all of the illegitimate ones. I wish he would have done that.

I absolutely hate playing the WWSD game. Jobs flip flopped numerous times on his positions at Apple, and for anyone to second guess what he would do in any situation is absolutely impossible.

But I wholeheartedly agree with you that this is a far more likely response from Apple if Steve had been at the helm, based on previous actions, and would have been a far more effective response than this lame milquetoast reaction from Cook. In fact, it's so soft, I wonder what Cook is trying to do, or what ties bind him ... Maybe he thinks nobody could get away with Steve's antics besides Steve. Either way, totally agree this is the tactic Apple should have taken,
post #177 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

Well, I should report that iOS 6's maps can finally return a result when I search for my street, which has been charted on the map since day 1 in the beta, BUT only if I type its name with a cedilla and a circumflex to match the exact spelling (this street is named after a city in Mozambique; my entire neighborhood's streets are named after cities in Africa, meaning lots of non-ASCII characters in street names), and EVEN THEN it still points to a location like 3 kilometers away from where I live (and 3 kilometers away from the place where the street is charted on the map, demonstrating lack of parity between the map and the database). Forget about abbreviations, incorrect spelling, or missing accentuation marks; any of those will still cause the search to fail. The fact that an app is pushed to production in this state is a demonstration of pure incompetence, I wouldn't even accept this from a newbie developer.

EDIT: Added trivia about my 'hood's street names.

 

Don't you think that would have been useful information to have included in all your posts complaining about iOS 6 maps?  You seem to regard yourself as a perfectionist and hold everyone to your standard -- how could you have overlooked this obvious potential problem or failed to mention it?

 

Would we be correct to assume that you reported the problem and solution to Apple?


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/28/12 at 9:59am
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post #178 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphyjazz View Post

It's about time. Apple maps just plain sucks. I've been an apple fan for a long time and enjoy using their desktop os and laptops, but their mobile offerings are just not comparable to android powered devices. Worst part is that they choose to be shitty because they're pissed at Google.

You are welcome to not like the iPhone etc and go buy what you want.

But stop with the armchair CEO games. You have no idea why Apple does what it does. So just don't.

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post #179 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

I think he did... someone dumped 666,000 shares of AAPL at open... now @Arthur123 will have lots of time to bitch and moan about Apple!I 

I wish I had 25 percent of 666,000 shares of AAPL. No I am a small time investor with only several thousand shares.

I have no plans to jump ship. However, is one of those problems that did not have to happen in the first place.

Apple got a little sloppy and it might burn us for a while.  

The Q4 numbers might be a disappointment. Well see.............. 

post #180 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


That only tells me you haven't used it, otherwise you would know, because the experiences that I report are common to everyone using it. Do you want me to provide you with a very common use case where Safari fails so you can verify it for yourself and stop calling an anecdote or will you admit you're lying and not reply to my post out of shame?

 

 The websites *I* visit work just fine.  So I won't be encountering your problems.   *shrugs*

post #181 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

LOL thanks for the anecdote. 

 

Safari performs brilliantly, actually. So there's *my* anecdote. 


Yeah, not sure what version of Safari he's running, but it works great for me.

post #182 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

I have not had a single problem on several trips from 5 minutes to 1 hour in and around Philadelphia.

 

The new maps are beautiful and will get better and better.

 

Google is off my iPhone. That's almost as beautiful.

 

Thanks, Tim.

 

 

 

 

 

How did it handle the "crossovers" in turn-by-turn?

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post #183 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

We aren't used to an Apple CEO behaving like the CEO of some Android OEM or Wintel junk-box maker. 

Given Apple's sheer product strength, this is just a blip on their radar screen. It isn't catastrophic. But it is a little disappointing. 

Blips don't require a CEO full page apology.
This is more like a fail of epic proportions or "epic fail" if you'd prefer. .
Edited by iSheldon - 9/28/12 at 10:14am
post #184 of 370
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post
That only tells me you haven't used it, otherwise you would know, because the experiences that I report are common to everyone using it. Do you want me to provide you with a very common use case where Safari fails so you can verify it for yourself and stop calling an anecdote or will you admit you're lying and not reply to my post out of shame?

 

Just stop. You're already so deep into that hole you dug before; why not just head back there and keep digging instead of starting a new one? 


Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post
Blips don't require a CEO full page apology.
 

And trolls don't need have arguments based in logic or fact to use the word "require" as though they know anything. lol.gif

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post #185 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Quite surprised and impressed that Cook offered such a full apology, and even recommended rival products.

 

I guess Apple has to look at the issue pragmatically. They had to release Maps at some point to cut their dependency on Google, but the product could never improve until it was released and corrections were crowdsourced. Hence, release it and collect data from those persevering, whilst acknowledging that some may not be satisfied and pointing them humbly to competing products. Makes sense.

 

Best post to date in all these map threads!  Clear and concise!

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post #186 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

For what? Google has few options.

 

They can charge for their app and pay Apple 30%, they can make it free, they can decide to not make an app.

 

In any case, Google lost a huge chunk from their mobile ad revenue. It's up to them to loose dozens of millions of iOS users and their position or to lose all of them. Apple played very well.

That's why their stock is at an all time high while Apple's can't break $700. Apple is arrogant they think they are the best and can do better than the rest..despite all their billions they cannot in maps like in the OS where the other company  dominates simply because they have a better product....

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post #187 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

[Don't you think that would have been useful information to have included in all your posts complaining about iOS 6 maps?  You seem to regard yourself as a perfectionist and hold everyone to your standard -- how could you have overlooked this obvious potential problem or failed to mention it?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but copy-pasting the address directly from a dropped pin didn't work before (now it does, though it drops another pin in a completely wrong place, so I assume they just added the street to the database without knowing its exact location despite it being on their own map).
post #188 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post

By the way, Allenbf. here is your first sentence: "How can he get the Google app available now?"  

Is this grammatically correct English?

 

Everybody is a "former" employee after they leave firm "A" to go work for firm "B". 

Most users want a simple application which takes the to what they want to do.

If using Safari gets you Google Maps, then Apple should create a simple automation app which does that function in one step and call it Google Maps or something. 


Does using your browser limit what Google can do with branding or data harvesting?

Does this allow Apple to control its destiny?

 

No matter what you or anybody tell me, Apple should not have released their mapping program without fixing all these image issues. It was not ready for public use. 

In light of that video I saw I don't think Steve Jobs would have released the Apple Maps app in its current poor state.

The situation is also affecting the stock price. I know of several people who have put off upgrading to the new phone in spite of the Safari solution you mentioned. 

 

Fine, fine.  If you don't want it, don't use it.  Sell your phone, tell your friends to buy Android, or at least tell them not to upgrade to iOS 6 (the iPhone 5 upgrade isn't even relevant, since it's the iOS that contains Maps, NOT the phone).  

 

You may know a few ppl who put off uprading.  That's their choice.  5 million + haven't.  And the Apple store still says "Shipping in 3-4 weeks"

 

Last, my grammar was correct, I only missed the "".  Because you said "Tim should make the map available now" and I replied "How can he get it available now?"  It should have read How can he "get it available now?"  So you get 1/2 point for that.

post #189 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar View Post

why?... the maps are not that bad... please just let this be a pr stunt...
so the "map" data (not the Satellite data/pictures) is so bad that Apple has to Apologize?...

If you go back and read it closely you'll notice he never appologizes for Maps being bad. Only for falling short of expectations. Not the same. Especially when those expectations were that iOS Maps would be on par with services that are at least 12 years old (and were ot perfect in the first public release either). To point this out would be read as insulting customers for having stupid expectations. And Samsung is the company that insults folks, not Apple.

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post #190 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post

Apple got a little sloppy and it might burn us for a while.  

The Q4 numbers might be a disappointment. Well see.............. 

Mostly it is temporary sensationalism. You know, like the other so called Android talking points.

 

Don't buy an iPhone. It has a walled garden. 

Don't buy an iPhone. It has a small screen.

Don't buy an iPhone it doesn't have a memory card slot.

Don't buy an iPhone. It doesn't have a USB port.

etc, etc.

 

All completely useless arguments which had no effect on iPhone sales.

So just add another talking point. Don't buy an iPhone. The Maps app will get you lost.

 

With Christmas season coming, the Map-gate issue will fade into irrelevance for common users. Only the hard core fanatics on both sides will continue to debate but the sales numbers will likely be through the roof anyway.

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post #191 of 370
Speak for yourself, apologist! This is the BIGGEST mistake Apple has made since the release of the iPhone. They put their hated of Google AHEAD of its userbase. An apology was VERY appropriate in this situation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Tim, sir, really no need for an apology. I believe the customers who are happy with the new Map(p)s vastly outnumber the people who are discontent. Who, by the way, can get around any shortcomings, like you point out yourself.
post #192 of 370
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post
This is the BIGGEST mistake Apple has made since the release of the iPhone. They put their hated of Google AHEAD of its userbase.

 

Uh… huh… 

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post #193 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Just stop. You're already so deep into that hole you dug before; why not just head back there and keep digging instead of starting a new one? 

I must have missed something. What hole are we talking about? And why would you claim I'm deep in whatever it is rather than waiting until I recognize it myself? Unlike you I don't have a problem admitting that I'm wrong when I actually AM wrong and it is fully demonstrated to me, though I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
post #194 of 370
haha wow. Still defending maps, huh? After the CEO himself admitted it was a failure? LOL. You apologists crack me up! You live in your own weird little bubble.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

I suppose that is a tad shorter than an earlier draft...

 

 

 

post #195 of 370

The courtesy of an apology is a good touch given that some people got upset. For myself, I suppose I find Steetview more useful than Turn by Turn, but that said, I am totally on board with Apples new product. I prefer the look of it already, have noticed the speed, added functions, etc and look forward to regular improvements and updates. It was really an untenable situation for them. This had to be done and some crowd sourced improvements is a major way that this stuff gets better and better.

 

Would Apple ever launch their own street view initiative? .... curious about that, and it IS quite useful and at times, entertaining. Big job though.

post #196 of 370
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post
I must have missed something. What hole are we talking about? And why would you claim I'm deep in whatever it is rather than waiting until I recognize it myself? Unlike you I don't have a problem admitting that I'm wrong when I actually AM wrong and it is fully demonstrated to me, though I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

 

What you're saying about Safari has as much significance as you as a single user do. Nothing more. Safari is not bad because you have problems with it. 

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post #197 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post

Speak for yourself, apologist! This is the BIGGEST mistake Apple has made since the release of the iPhone. They put their hated of Google AHEAD of its userbase. An apology was VERY appropriate in this situation.

 

 

 

So...you're saying this is about hatred, not about $$ and user experience, then?  It's not about controlling your own product, your own destiny?

 

Alrighty, then.  

post #198 of 370
That's all you got? It's common knowledge that Apple had a year left on its contract with Google. Er go, they could have (SHOULD HAVE) worked on Maps for another year. The fact that they put it out early shows that iOS6 was more about Apple than its users. If I'm wrong, then enlighten us as to why. It's not like I'm the only one that thinks this...

http://www.imore.com/yes-ios-6-more-about-apple-new-user-features-thats-okay

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Uh… huh… 

post #199 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What you're saying about Safari has as much significance as you as a single user do. Nothing more. Safari is not bad because you have problems with it. 

I didn't say I was the only one with problems, quite the opposite, I even offered to demonstrate how common those problems are to the people who don't regularly use Safari.
post #200 of 370
Originally Posted by Waverunnr View Post
Er go, they could have (SHOULD HAVE) worked on Maps for another year.

 

Uh… huh… 

 

The fact that they put it out early…

 

Stop. Proof?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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