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Apple CEO Tim Cook apologizes to customers for Maps in iOS 6 - Page 8

post #281 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

 

Fine, fine.  If you don't want it, don't use it.  Sell your phone, tell your friends to buy Android, or at least tell them not to upgrade to iOS 6 (the iPhone 5 upgrade isn't even relevant, since it's the iOS that contains Maps, NOT the phone).  

 

You may know a few ppl who put off upgrading.  That's their choice.  5 million + haven't.  And the Apple store still says "Shipping in 3-4 weeks"

 

Last, my grammar was correct, I only missed the "".  Because you said "Tim should make the map available now" and I replied "How can he get it available now?"  It should have read How can he "get it available now?"  So you get 1/2 point for that.

Thanks for the 1/2 point.


No I want people to buy the iPhone 5 by the bucket load. I'm an Apple shareholder and I want Apple to have tremendous success with this new phone.

However, I'm sure most of the 5 million early buyers did not know how crappy Apple's mapping app was. How could they? The industry reviews came in after the first weekend sales. 

I am sure it will impact some people's choice to upgrade or buy this new phone. Like I said I know several people who said they were going to hold off now. 

I hope your right and the 3-4 week wait has to do with demand and not component supply issues. 

The point of my original comment was that this was a issue that Apple created all by itself which could have been completely avoided. Now instead they gave Samsung and others new TV commercial material.

Did you view that Steve Jobs video that was posted on this forum? I think Steve said it best when he said some some companies at good at one thing and others at other things.

He mentioned that Microsoft was good at search which I think is kind of a stretch. I mean Google is the search king. But Steve's point was that Apple was good at created an overall tightly integrated package. 

Conversely, this crappy mapping app is the complete opposite of what we expect from Apple. In fact Apple should be embarrassed by this app. Ironically I think it would not make it out of their app review process.  

post #282 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

When stopped at a light , when lost. Yes???
How would you use Flyover view while driving your car? Lol

That's an absurd argument. How would you use Streetview while driving your car?

I still can't figure out what the heck good Streetview is. If you have streetview, you also have a little dot on the map that shows you where you are. Unless you're hopelessly incompetent at reading a map, Streetview doesn't add anything (and I feel the same way about Flyover).
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Viable or not, iOS 5 Maps was light-years ahead of what Apple came up with.  Sure no Turn-By-Turn...Boo-fricken'-Hoo.  Sure not Flyover...Streetview was better.  Everything (except for the whole vector graphics bit) was better in iOS 5.1.1 maps.  iOS 6 Maps is no better than some crappy Store-bought GPS device from TomTom or Garmin.  Google Maps was not just maps, but so much more.

I notice that your evidence is missing.

So where's the statistical evidence that Apple Maps has more errors than Google Maps? Where's the evidence that Streetview is better than Flyover (and why did Google bother implementing their own version of Flyover if Street View was so much better)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post

By the way, just to stop this already derailed train of thought, let me remind you that all analogies are flawed in nature due to being inferences from the particular to the particular; they can only be used when all the parties in a debate agree with them, and since I do not agree that Google Maps replaced anything else the same way Apple Maps is replacing Google Maps on iOS, you can not use or defend that analogy.

You misspelled "Waaaaahhhh. I was wrong and gave a stupid analogy and you proved me to be wrong, so please stop."
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post #283 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Did you miss the word "partner"?

 

Google has demonstrated that it is not a viable "partner" for Apple's future mapping needs!

 

Maybe they were once "good partnerships", but things change!   Like maps, "partnership agreements" need to be updated to reflect current conditions.  

 

Apple could not get what they wanted from Google, so they changed "partners".

Viable or not, iOS 5 Maps was light-years ahead of what Apple came up with.  Sure no Turn-By-Turn...Boo-fricken'-Hoo.  Sure not Flyover...Streetview was better.  Everything (except for the whole vector graphics bit) was better in iOS 5.1.1 maps.  iOS 6 Maps is no better than some crappy Store-bought GPS device from TomTom or Garmin.  Google Maps was not just maps, but so much more.

 

Do you understand the meaning of  "not viable"?  It means that it wasn't capable of working!

 

So, why pursue a solution that is incapable of working?  

 

You must find an alternative (hopefully the best alternative), and that's what Apple did!

 

viable |ˈvīəbəl|adjectivecapable of working successfully; feasible: the proposed investment was economically viable.• Botany (of a seed or spore) able to germinate.• Biology (of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or livingsuccessfully, esp. under particular environmental conditions.• Medicine (of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth.DERIVATIVESviability |ˌvīəˈbilətē|noun,viably |-blē|adverbORIGIN early 19th cent.: from French, from vie life, from Latin vita .

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post #284 of 370

Then get decent working product before removing Google. 

post #285 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Did you miss the word "partner"?

 

Google has demonstrated that it is not a viable "partner" for Apple's future mapping needs!

 

Maybe they were once "good partnerships", but things change!   Like maps, "partnership agreements" need to be updated to reflect current conditions.  

 

Apple could not get what they wanted from Google, so they changed "partners".

Most people have no problem with dropping Google. But first get a good product to market before dropping them. Thus Apple Map app is not ready for general use!

post #286 of 370

A superb deconstruction of Cook v. Jobs apologies styles: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-28/a-close-reading-of-two-apologies

 

Well worth a read!

post #287 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post

Then get decent working product before removing Google. 

 

As others have posted, it was, likely, not possible.  The maps app is deeply integrated into the iOS operating system, and needs to provide APIs to third-party applications.

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post #288 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Once you sell all your Apple stuff, stop reading any site that mentions Apple etc it will be.

Your solution to any one who does not agree with this Apple Mapping program in OS 6 is that they sell their Apple stock. 

Your an idiot. If consumers don't speak up after they spend their hard earned dollars on a product how are they folks making what they bought know if they are happy or unhappy with that product?

You guy's that think its just find that they included this crappy app in place of Google must have your head in the sand.

As opposed to you and others, Tim Cook must have thought the complaints were significant enough to issue a written response. 

post #289 of 370
I haven't really experienced any major issues with the new Maps. I can say that the building data isn't as good as Google Maps, but that is pretty minor in my mind. I've used it to get me to a some different places and it has worked flawlessly for me thus far.
post #290 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post

lol!
Just let us download the fully working version of Google Maps that we had from iOS 5....

The new maps is a fully working version, I just used it on a trip half way down the east coast and it did exactly as expected without a bunch of extraneous information being displayed. Further it was snappy. Just because it isn't what you are use to doesn't mean it isn't viable or an improvement over the old!
post #291 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post

Your solution to any one who does not agree with this Apple Mapping program in OS 6 is that they sell their Apple stock. 

Your an idiot. If consumers don't speak up after they spend their hard earned dollars on a product how are they folks making what they bought know if they are happy or unhappy with that product?

You guy's that think its just find that they included this crappy app in place of Google must have your head in the sand.

As opposed to you and others, Tim Cook must have thought the complaints were significant enough to issue a written response. 


But you still have access to Google Maps!! I don't understand what the issue is. Maps.google.com, add to home screen Voila!! problem solved. Same features you had in the app. Street view, satellite images, traffic...

 

More and more, every day I am convinced that people just like to complain.

post #292 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post

Then get decent working product before removing Google. 

Works great for me! You people whine over Google and their cluttered maps not being what you want to see but you fail to realize the new Maps offer a lot more. The turn by turn does work, is accurate and fast. Heck it caught me leaving the expressway, for a rest stop, before I was barely on the off ramp.
post #293 of 370
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post
Then get decent working product before removing Google. 

 

They already have… 

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post #294 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp View Post


Rough edges don't play well with Apple's attuned geometry. Straight forward humility and purity of intentions do. Leave aggressiveness to the naughty 'coming-from-behind' ones.
Apple ought to behave in a way consistent with the nobility perspiring from the absolutely magnificent iPhone 5. And so they do.

 

I don't think Steve Jobs had any rough edges in his handling of the so called "antennagate" non-issue. That should be the way these things are handled.

post #295 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They already have… 

Not only is it decent it is actually a significant improvement over the old maps for people that actually use it. The turn by turn navigation works very well and doesn't need constant viewing of the screen to be useful. The app is noticeably fast at loading maps which also means that t is using less bandwidth. Frankly I suspect most of the complaints registering here come from idiots that haven't actually used the new Maps. It works great for what I need out of a Maps type app.
post #296 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshonhall View Post

I just don't get the whole Maps hoopla.
It works fantastic for me! I use it every single day, usually several times in a day! Every time I'm in the car, I just ask Siri to take me to where I need to go, and off we go.
I understand there are some glitches in Maps. But...

 

It's a coordinated PR campaign by Google -- fraudulent ads using its "hatchet man" subsidiary Motorola, astroturfing, media shepherding -- and picked up on by Apple haters as a club to bash with. This happens with one issue on every iPhone release. It should be no surprise that Google picked Maps this time since that's the biggest threat to them.

post #297 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker View Post

 

Apple maps is worst than satan

 

To be fair, Satan is pretty cool.

post #298 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Not only is it decent it is actually a significant improvement over the old maps for people that actually use it. The turn by turn navigation works very well and doesn't need constant viewing of the screen to be useful. The app is noticeably fast at loading maps which also means that t is using less bandwidth. Frankly I suspect most of the complaints registering here come from idiots that haven't actually used the new Maps. It works great for what I need out of a Maps type app.

My experience as well. Faster by a significant margin and with voice turn by turn.

 

Big improvement. Pedestrian and public transport directions will be nice when they are delivered but that's a tiny portion of my usage at any rate.

post #299 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So where's the statistical evidence that Apple Maps has more errors than Google Maps?

For starter, check this one http://www.mtonic.com/applemaps/ but too bad he does not make comparison to google maps
post #300 of 370

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Using the phrase "Apple fanboys" here is like walking into a gay bar and calling the other patrons "fags". It's hate speech that doesn't add anything to the discussion, and is the sign of a demented mind venting over its own frustrations in life.

 

That you pretend these "Apple fanboys" are "extremists", acting like they are some sort of Taliban, and pretending there's some sort of moral equivalency there, tells me you've got some issues yourself.

 

Here's the bottom line. Apple makes great products. Some of us like that. Some people apparently are bothered by it. Some of us expect that when Apple isn't 100% perfect, they know it and intend to fix the problems as soon as they can, even when the extent of them are overblown. Some people like to label the appreciation of general excellence in this case a "cult", while they hypocritically "worship at other alters," usually because they have some sort of irrational dislike of Apple or have got the idea in their heads that anything with the label "open" attached to it has to be the best.

 

Some of us are tired of listening to the tirades of trolls, shills, astroturfers and haters. So, stop pretending that anyone who defends Apple is the Taliban, and stop using language that makes that equivalence. Some of us just happen to think they have the best products, threaten our privacy less than the alternatives, and would like to see them succeed as long as they maintain their commitment to general excellence.

 

From this very thread:

Quote:

"Somebody should virtually beat the living shit out of these psychopaths, in my humble opinion."

 

...

 

"From now on, I will not engage Fandroids and obvious Apple haters in any rational discussion, I will aggressively attack, while destroying and eliminating them. They're like cockroaches, and nobody wants a cockroach infestation. What do you do with cockroaches? You kill them and get rid of them."

 

As a new member I find this quite appalling that this sort of conduct is not subject of moderation.

I wouldn't even call someone making such statements an "Apple fanboy", just out of touch with reality.

Oh well, enough attention given - time to find the ignore functionality in this board.

 

I don't really appreciate you making it appear that I wrote the bit in your second quote, intentional or not.

 

There are certainly troubled people on both sides. (I would argue that anyone coming here to bash Apple on their own time, not getting paid for it, is troubled. If you're getting paid, well ...)

post #301 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

It's a coordinated PR campaign by Google -- fraudulent ads using its "hatchet man" subsidiary Motorola, astroturfing, media shepherding -- and picked up on by Apple haters as a club to bash with. This happens with one issue on every iPhone release. It should be no surprise that Google picked Maps this time since that's the biggest threat to them.

Funny thing is that those on the Apple side are the ones labeled as sheep, cult followers, kool-aid drinkers... Seems to me there is a tirade of cronies populating all the forums with this "Give me back my Google" and all that, when it's there for them, along with MANY other options if they so choose. AND by using the web-app they have the freedom from apple that they ask for since it's not an Apple controlled app.

post #302 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by iang1234 View Post


For starter, check this one http://www.mtonic.com/applemaps/ but too bad he does not make comparison to google maps


C'mon. I tested the very first one (error code 8??) And it pulled up on my 4S on iOS 6. Figured I didn't want to waste any more time.

post #303 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by twosee View Post

Funny thing is that those on the Apple side are the ones labeled as sheep, cult followers, kool-aid drinkers... Seems to me there is a tirade of cronies populating all the forums with this "Give me back my Google" and all that, when it's there for them, along with MANY other options if they so choose. AND by using the web-app they have the freedom from apple that they ask for since it's not an Apple controlled app.

You'd think so, but apparently, some people get their jollies out of complaining even when there's nothing really to complain about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

There are certainly troubled people on both sides. (I would argue that anyone coming here to bash Apple on their own time, not getting paid for it, is troubled. If you're getting paid, well ...)

I believe that it's a personality disorder. You can understand someone going to a site to talk about a product that they use and like and maybe to pick up some rumors about the next versions. But to go to a site about a product you hate and insist that you'd never use just to berate the people who use that product strikes me as very closely related to narcissistic personality disorder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iang1234 View Post

For starter, check this one http://www.mtonic.com/applemaps/ but too bad he does not make comparison to google maps

I'm not going to check it, but the poster before me said that the first one he tried came up even though that author said it didn't. Also, we don't know how he selected those cities. For all we know, he might have intentionally searched for cities that weren't on Apple's maps. Furthermore, without a comparison to Google's Maps, it's a useless piece of data. So, once again, where is the evidence that Apple's maps is significantly worse than Google's?
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post #304 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

"Everything we do at Apple is aimed at making our products the best in the world"
It could be argued that this was about making the most money.

 

...or about making the best product, seeing as how Google maps on Android is better than on iOS.

 

Good riddance to Google leaching of iOS users.

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post #305 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur123 View Post

So Jeff what are you saying. Tim Cook wants the Apple iphone users to be the beta testers for this not ready for prime time mapping program?

If that is the case they should have included it as a bonus program as part of OS6 and still given users full access to Google maps.

As an Apple stock holder his apology means nothing. Its offering me a drink with an empty glass.

If he truly wants people to move forward he needs to bring back the Google App period end of story.

 

Wrong, he needs to sever the relationship with Google who was giving iOS users a subpar experience, if you want the best Google maps experience go buy an Android handset.

 

Maybe Tim Cook should have been less apologetic and more forthright in getting this message across.

 

Cut Google off from the source of their business e.g. user data.

 

Apple has to break that link at sometime, that time is now.

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post #306 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes View Post

On topic though, I'm a former iPhone person but now use WP and Android...

 

As a former iPhone person, how do you know what the new maps are like?

 

As a "former iPhone person", you could not possibly have used the new maps.

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post #307 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I notice that your evidence is missing.
So where's the statistical evidence that Apple Maps has more errors than Google Maps? Where's the evidence that Streetview is better than Flyover (and why did Google bother implementing their own version of Flyover if Street View was so much better)?
 

Google did not implement 45 degree view to counter flyover...get out from under the rock man.  Google has had 45 degree view for a while now.  It was actually implemented to counter Bing Map's "Bird's Eye View".

post #308 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Do you understand the meaning of  "not viable"?  It means that it wasn't capable of working!

 

So, why pursue a solution that is incapable of working?  

 

You must find an alternative (hopefully the best alternative), and that's what Apple did!

 

viable |ˈvīəbəl|adjectivecapable of working successfully; feasible: the proposed investment was economically viable.• Botany (of a seed or spore) able to germinate.• Biology (of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or livingsuccessfully, esp. under particular environmental conditions.• Medicine (of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth.DERIVATIVESviability |ˌvīəˈbilətē|noun,viably |-blē|adverbORIGIN early 19th cent.: from French, from vie life, from Latin vita .

Google was a viable partner IMO.  And in all reality, NONE of us on this thread should claim to know in TRUTH about the switch to iOS Maps.  To me, the previous Google+Apple Maps App was better...MANY agree.

post #309 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by na1ya View Post

"The more our customers use our Maps the better it will get"


I don't understand. If we keep using Maps, the image on the right will gradually become the image on the left? How is that possible?

You misunderstood. Tim Cook is quoted as saying, "The more our customers use our Maps the better it will get..."

Better not worse. Better.
post #310 of 370

Just heard a news story on the radio and I quote "Tim Cook head of Apple has admitted the new maps are rubbish and wants people to use something else".

 

He never should have been so apologetic, the media distills things down to 5 or 10 second soundbites that immediately capture an audience's attention.

 

I think Steve Jobs understood this, he deflected attacks to discussion of his personality traits, rather than opening the company to direct attacks like the above.

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post #311 of 370

Here's an interesting read:

Quote:

Search, Discover, Decide

What then is the bigger picture task or job that we will be asking a map application to do for us, both now and in the future? Maps is an interesting application in this regard, because it is fundamentally different than a web search. When using a map application, I am desiring something relative to a location. How do I get somewhere from where I currently am? What is around me of interest? Have my friends said or done anything interesting relative to my current location? Are any establishments near me offering any special deals? What are others saying about an establishment near me? I want Dim Sum for lunch, what are the best places around me and what have others said or recommend? The list goes on.

 

http://techpinions.com/the-future-of-apples-maps/10775

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post #312 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Google was a viable partner IMO.  And in all reality, NONE of us on this thread should claim to know in TRUTH about the switch to iOS Maps.  To me, the previous Google+Apple Maps App was better...MANY agree.


Actually, MANY disagree also. I personally like the new maps better. At least where I live. And IMO, Google may have been a viable partner at one point, but I for one am not happy that they have been holding back features to us (according to recent reports) leaving us a step behind. It was going to be like that from here moving forward. So to me Google was no longer a viable partner.
They became direct competitors now so in essence, Apple needed to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. 

post #313 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by twosee View Post


But you still have access to Google Maps!! I don't understand what the issue is. Maps.google.com, add to home screen Voila!! problem solved. Same features you had in the app. Street view, satellite images, traffic...

More and more, every day I am convinced that people just like to complain.

Just like more and more I am convinced people offering up google.maps are completely disingenuous.
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post #314 of 370

Y so serious? lol.gif

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post #315 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

No, turning location off in settings will not disable Apple tracking thru maps. There is currently no option to completely disable it AFAIK. By necessity Apple will log your travels and current/past locations via Apple Maps. How else to get statistics for traffic flow, road geometry errors and the like?

 

How do you provide map data to a device if you don't know where it is?

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post #316 of 370

This will all be forgotten in a year - just like Antennagate.

post #317 of 370
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post
This will all be forgotten in a month - just like Antennagate.

 

Fixed, and yep.

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post #318 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wholeheartedly disagree with Apple putting the old Maps back in iOS. Even if they let you switch between Google and Apple Maps for the duration of the contract it's a bad idea.
Just in case you don't recall I've pointed out issues with Apple Maps since the first iOS 6 beta. I've been attacked and ridiculed for month on this issue by saying this will be a problem for Apple if they don't get it worked out (mostly by MacBook Pro). Not only has David Pogue and other Apple loving tech writers spoken out about Apple Maps issues but now we have Tim Cook making note of it and apologizing.
I've been saying that Apple needed another year to build up the app properly but one thing I didn't know was the now rumoured expiration date on their contract with Google. That is being presented as June 2013. Since iOS releases have moved to an Autumn release cycle that becomes an issue for Apple. You either have to release the new Apps mid-iOS 6, renegotiate a contract you only want for 3-4 months, or jump ship and learn to swim fast. Looking at how complete Apple Maps is on launch the 3rd option is really the best of a bad set of options and I, for one, commend Cook for making this decision as it's the one I would have made based on this rumoured Google Maps contract expiration date.
That's part of the problem. Apple's keynote at WWDC of Maps didn't allow for any indication that it was still going to take time to make it great. All they had to do was say that need us to help make Apple Maps the best mapping software in the world. I think we would have supported them. I surely would have tested it more for errors and then submitted updates for months now, but there was absolutely no indication that Apple saw this as an issue. For that I can't commend Cook.

Please provide a quote wherein I "ridiculed" you.
post #319 of 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


Just like more and more I am convinced people offering up google.maps are completely disingenuous.


NO, just seems to be the brand of service the ones with the mapping issues are missing the most, so it's the one I offer. My point is why are they complaining about something that is still accessible to them?

post #320 of 370

According to Business Insider, Apple officially has a fix now shown on their web site. All you Apple Map defenders with egg on your faces please say sorry. lol.gif

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/category/apple

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