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Apple's planned Internet radio service held up by talks with Sony

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
A Pandora-like streaming music service from Apple reportedly remains in limbo after talks with Sony hit what has been called a "last-minute snag."

The details come from "sources close to the situation" who spoke with the New York Post. They said that Sony/ATV, the world's largest music publisher, couldn't reach an agreement wih Apple on a per-song rights fee.

Such rights are usually a fraction of a cent per stream, but Sony/ATV was allegedly seeking a higher royalty rate from Apple.

But Apple is seeking more flexible licensing than the deals that the current dominant Internet radio service, Pandora, has inked with record labels. Apple's licenses would allow users to play a selected artist more times than Pandora, and would allow the company to point people to the iTunes Store to generate music sales.

"While Pandora serves up songs based on algorithms, Apple's talks with the labels involves an element of promotion based on what music labels are pushing in any one month, sources said," the Post reported.

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Apple's apparent Internet radio plans were first reported earlier this month by The Wall Street Journal. It was revealed that Apple is looking to create a streaming radio service to rival current offerings like Pandora.

The new radio service from Apple is expected to focus on virtual stations to play music on a Web browser or through dedicated applications on iOS devices. Advertisements from Apple's iAd platform are expected to be incorporated into the service in exchange for free user access.
post #2 of 46

Wasn't Pandora one of those big highlight apps, introduced at one of the Apple keynotes? Personally I don't think there's any such thing as a long-term Apple applications partner. I believe at some point Apple will develop their own version of any popular feature rather than depend on any "partners". It's in their DNA to control their platform as tightly as it's makes sense to do. Pandora shouldn't be surprised.

 

EDIT: I missed that the Apple service is expected to be ad-supported. Will users have to agree to be served targeted ads in the TOS? It will be interesting to see how it's accepted if that happesn. Personally I signed up for Pandora One, paying a yearly fee to avoid ads.


Edited by Gatorguy - 9/28/12 at 11:16am
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post #3 of 46
Flame on Sony!
post #4 of 46

Why can't Apple be more reasonable and reach an agreement with Sony? Why does Apple have to be so stubborn and arrogant?

 

Why do Apple users have to be such fanboys?

 

I was just about to buy an iPhone 5, but now, with no internet radio service, this is the final straw, and I'm gonna have to go with a Samsung Galaxy S III, instead.

 

And believe me, when I tell you that I am no Apple hater. I've been using Apple's products since 1971, and I have 13 Apple desktops and 9 Apple laptops at home. Steve Jobs wouldn't have let this happen. 

post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Why can't Apple be more reasonable and reach an agreement with Sony? Why does Apple have to be so stubborn and arrogant?

 

Why do Apple users have to be such fanboys?

 

I was just about to buy an iPhone 5, but now, with no internet radio service, this is the final straw, and I'm gonna have to go with a Samsung Galaxy S III, instead.

 

And believe me, when I tell you that I am no Apple hater. I've been using Apple's products since 1971, and I have 13 Apple desktops and 9 Apple laptops at home. Steve Jobs wouldn't have let this happen. 

LOL!!

 

/s  /s  /s /s

:)

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post #6 of 46

I'm sorry, but I just don't get the purpose of this. I prefer to own what I pay for, I guess. 

 

Yeah, Pandora, yeah, whatever the other one is, we already have the radio in iTunes. Hundreds upon hundreds of stations. And they're free. Why would I use this thing?

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post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm sorry, but I just don't get the purpose of this. I prefer to own what I pay for, I guess. 

 

Yeah, Pandora, yeah, whatever the other one is, we already have the radio in iTunes. Hundreds upon hundreds of stations. And they're free. Why would I use this thing?

 

Effectively being able to 'genius' any of the songs you have or listened to, and build a 'radio station' around that genius query from any song in the iTunes store (not just your library).   Think of being able to call a radio station and say "Can you play 3 hours of songs that pair well with Muddy Waters"

 

I'd pay $25 a year for that. (and from Apple's standpoint, having a 'buy now' button when a particular gem is played). 

post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

 

Effectively being able to 'genius' any of the songs you have or listened to, and build a 'radio station' around that genius query from any song in the iTunes store (not just your library).   Think of being able to call a radio station and say "Can you play 3 hours of songs that pair well with Muddy Waters"

 

I'd pay $25 a year for that. (and from Apple's standpoint, having a 'buy now' button when a particular gem is played). 

"The new radio service from Apple is expected to focus on virtual stations to play music on a Web browser or through dedicated applications on iOS devices. Advertisements from Apple's iAd platform are expected to be incorporated into the service in exchange for free user access."

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post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm sorry, but I just don't get the purpose of this. I prefer to own what I pay for, I guess. 

Yeah, Pandora, yeah, whatever the other one is, we already have the radio in iTunes. Hundreds upon hundreds of stations. And they're free. Why would I use this thing?

Because Apple would have made it better- made you see what you never thought you needed before.
But now they can't.
And you won't know what it is. Neither will I. (sad face)
post #10 of 46
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post
But now they can't.

 

Right, Apple has always been stopped by the record industry. They've never innovated anything there.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Right, Apple has always been stopped by the record industry. They've never innovated anything there.

And how exactly can you innovate streaming music without the rights to that music therefore nothing to stream?
post #12 of 46
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post
And how exactly can you innovate streaming music without the rights to that music therefore nothing to stream?

 

By leaving those that won't come to the table in the dust until they realize how much they're losing and inevitably cave, just like Apple has done in the past.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm sorry, but I just don't get the purpose of this. I prefer to own what I pay for, I guess. 

Yeah, Pandora, yeah, whatever the other one is, we already have the radio in iTunes. Hundreds upon hundreds of stations. And they're free. Why would I use this thing?

Pandora is a pretty fantastic service, quite unlike anything you've described above.
It is worth giving it a shot if only to discover why it is different.

I personally like to control my own music, but I've discovered a lot of fantastic music through Pandora.
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post #14 of 46

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 1/21/13 at 3:13pm
post #15 of 46

Ah, yes. Sony. Along with Nintendo, they need to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

Your days are numbered.

 

 
post #16 of 46
You're really just confusing things by referring to this as "Internet radio" which is already a thing, has been for years, and is not this.

Apple has never, ever done internet radio in a way in which it's actually useable by the consumer even though it's technically been a feature of iTunes for years. I would absolutely love it if they would do an Internet radio app that was actually useful as at the moment we have to rely on apps from the stations themselves which all kind of suck so far.

This sounds more like a streaming music subscription service, but "free" because it's actually loaded with ads an promotional material. That is not "Internet Radio," or anything close to it.

The closest model to this service would actually be AM radio from the early 1960's.
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Wasn't Pandora one of those big highlight apps, introduced at one of the Apple keynotes? Personally I don't think there's any such thing as a long-term Apple applications partner. I believe at some point Apple will develop their own version of any popular feature rather than depend on any "partners". It's in their DNA to control their platform as tightly as it's makes sense to do. Pandora shouldn't be surprised.

 

 

What's funny, is when this started, Steve suggested the opposite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RnkXa3eTV88

 

 

On topic, Spotify and Pandora have this pretty well covered. I'll no doubt check out Apple's offering, I'm sure it'll integrate perfectly and be easier, but it does sort of beg the question of why?

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post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post


And how exactly can you innovate streaming music without the rights to that music therefore nothing to stream?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

By leaving those that won't come to the table in the dust until they realize how much they're losing and inevitably cave, just like Apple has done in the past.


Isn't it a chuckle when trolls try spinning their iHating propaganda with complete disregard to history?

post #19 of 46
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post
Isn't it a chuckle when trolls try spinning their iHating propaganda with complete disregard to history?

 

Indeed. It's worse, though, when history starts to corroborate what they're saying, but as a failing on their part in a different way.

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #20 of 46
I'd be all for a Spotify type service with access to the whole iTunes library. I haven't bought a song on iTunes in months because of Spotify, but there are still a handful of songs/artists missing.
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

 

...  On topic, Spotify and Pandora have this pretty well covered. I'll no doubt check out Apple's offering, I'm sure it'll integrate perfectly and be easier, but it does sort of beg the question of why?

 

Why is the easiest question to answer of all.  Streaming music services are not actually as popular with consumers as those that promote them would have you believe, but there is a significant value for the music labels like Sony.  

 

Anyone who is in the media business needs to have a streaming service as part of it's offerings because streaming music services are primarily promotional tools for the labels.  That's why they exist and why Apple should probably have one as part of it's offerings.  

post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


Pandora is a pretty fantastic service, quite unlike anything you've described above.
It is worth giving it a shot if only to discover why it is different.
I personally like to control my own music, but I've discovered a lot of fantastic music through Pandora.

 

I agree that the main value for the end user is music discovery, but personally, I would rather play the Internet radio stations I already like for free and then perhaps be directed to where I can purchase the song, than pay Pandora a monthly fee for a "radio station-like" experience that's never going to be the same as the free radio stations I already listen to.  

 

For instance I only really listen to the SomaFM group of radio stations and most of that stuff rarely shows up anywhere else.  The app for SomaFM is pretty awful and while you can "bookmark" stuff, it doesn't have any direct links to a store.  I would love it if I could click on a song and have it take me to the store directly, but I'm not going to give up my radio stations and stop supporting the fine people at SomaFM just to get a lesser, paid experience on Pandora. 

 

A related problem is that a good deal of the stuff I hear on my radio station (and I'm assuming it is the same for most of them), isn't actually available in iTunes, whereas from what I've heard, everything on Pandora is.  This is because the streaming music is usually more concerned with promoting music for sale than it is letting you listen to what you want to listen to.  

 

No doubt Apple's service will be similar and contain no songs not for sale in the country you are listening to the radio in.  Either that or they will go with the tired and true practice of offering only US tunes no matter where you are.  :-/

post #23 of 46
Apple, and Apple's customers, would be better served with a Spotify competitor rather than a Pandora competitor.
post #24 of 46

The problem I have is, as I've said many times before, that Apple tries to manage way too many projects just for the sake of integration, and at the same time burn bridges with a lot of partners, even those who're not really going to threaten Apple's ecosystem like Pandora. Plus, if they want, they for sure have the money to just buyout Pandora (and even shutdown the Android version of Pandora to hurt Google), but instead they try to create their own 'Pandora-like' service, which is completely unnecessary when they could've just bought Pandora.

post #25 of 46
Before folks get in too deep with the 'terrible idea' and/or 'F Sony' rants keep one very important detail in mind

New York Post is basically a tabloid rag. When it comes to tech stuff they make Digitimes look good.

If they are the source for this the opposite is likely true.

If there is any level of truth to any of this, I still suspect it is more trying to restore some of the functions from LaLa.com which Apple bought a couple of years back. Things like the one time full play of any track, creating 'sampler playlists of similar artists, liking other users and listening to their playlists (provided of course you haven't burned your one play on a track) etc. things that should have been included Ping and might have it useful. also could improve Genius (which if it had been merged with Ping might have improved both)

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post #26 of 46
This plus iPad mini plus my truck equals something mighty fine. Do they make airplay car speakers yet?
post #27 of 46

This news might partly explain why iTunes 10.8 won't be available until October: the streaming feature has to be yanked (it also gives Apple and Sony more time to possibly come to an agreement).

post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

The problem I have is, as I've said many times before, that Apple tries to manage way too many projects just for the sake of integration...

Worst-case for Apple, merely pursuing a streaming service, even if it never reaches market, might still be viewed as disruptive to the competition, which also helps Apple.

post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


I trust that's merely in jest, no?

 

If not, these may be worth looking at:

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/iphone-gems-12-internet-radio-apps-for-iphone-ipod-touch/

I tried to give some clues, such as using Apple since 1971, so yes, it was in jest. lol.gif

 

As for your suggestion, I don't listen to any internet radio. I subscribe to iTunes Match, as I prefer to own my songs. However, I've recently been disappointed with the changes to iTunes Match that came with iOS6. It's been downgraded, and key features that were available before are no longer there. I am hoping that Apple sees the error that they made and makes it right again. I wouldn't have signed up and paid $25 for iTunes Match, if it existed such as it does today in iOS 6, so I am a little disappointed in Apple.

post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/152964/apples-planned-internet-radio-service-held-up-by-talks-with-sony#post_2200908"]Why can't Apple be more reasonable and reach an agreement with Sony? Why does Apple have to be so stubborn and arrogant?

Why do Apple users have to be such fanboys?

I was just about to buy an iPhone 5, but now, with no internet radio service, this is the final straw, and I'm gonna have to go with a Samsung Galaxy S III, instead.

And believe me, when I tell you that I am no Apple hater. I've been using Apple's products since 1971, and I have 13 Apple desktops and 9 Apple laptops at home. Steve Jobs wouldn't have let this happen. 

Ummm did someone hijack Apple ]['s account? Lol
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post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I agree that the main value for the end user is music discovery, but personally, I would rather play the Internet radio stations I already like for free and then perhaps be directed to where I can purchase the song, than pay Pandora a monthly fee for a "radio station-like" experience that's never going to be the same as the free radio stations I already listen to.

Pandora is free and ad-supported. Depending on the platform through which you are listening to Pandora, ads of some form or another will make an appearance (frequently music-related and localized). For example, on iOS there will be an advertisement at the bottom of the screen (eh) and, on relatively infrequent occasions, an audible add will play. I'm not aware of any monthly fee. You can (last time I checked) pay $36/year for 'Pandora One', which allows you to play music for a longer period of time without it cutting off (normal Pandora gives you enough time to interact with it and enjoy it, but not enough to do something like leave it unattended through a party), higher music quality (normal Pandora is fine for listening in the vast majority of cases), and elimination of ads and ad interruptions. So no financial reason why someone might hold back from evaluating the service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

For instance I only really listen to the SomaFM group of radio stations and most of that stuff rarely shows up anywhere else.  The app for SomaFM is pretty awful and while you can "bookmark" stuff, it doesn't have any direct links to a store.  I would love it if I could click on a song and have it take me to the store directly, but I'm not going to give up my radio stations and stop supporting the fine people at SomaFM just to get a lesser, paid experience on Pandora. 

I am not personally familiar with SomaFM. But Pandora does also allow you to bookmark songs (and also tracks you likes). You can then reference those songs and purchase them through iTunes (and, if I recall correctly, other services). I have run into cases where Pandora dug up a song which was not available for purchase anywhere. Pandora also occasionally plays a variation of a song which can be nearly impossible to track down. I recall one particular song where even the original artist wasn't quite sure where it came from (I wasn't the only person trying to track it down and a conversation about it spawned on last.fm).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

No doubt Apple's service will be similar and contain no songs not for sale in the country you are listening to the radio in.  Either that or they will go with the tired and true practice of offering only US tunes no matter where you are.  :-/

I'm looking forward to seeing what Apple puts together. It probably won't fully trump the likes of Pandora right out the gate. A fantastic feature of Pandora is how well it evolves stations based on what you like or dislike and the parameters involved in creating the station. Apple has some experience and data in this area with Genius though, subjectively speaking, I'm not sure Genius has done as good a job of matching content as Pandora has for me. Apple will certainly need to do something better than the Genius feature in the App Store. It would also be limited to music in the iTunes store, but that's not a huge negative. But on the other hand, I imagine it will be absolutely fantastic for most of their customers.
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post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Ummm did someone hijack Apple ]['s account? Lol

 

I was channeling a braindead Fandroid for a moment there.

post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/152964/apples-planned-internet-radio-service-held-up-by-talks-with-sony#post_2201060"]
I was channeling a braindead Fandroid for a moment there.

That was pretty good, there's hope for you yet lol
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post #34 of 46

How is this an attractive service? With iAds? With pushing whatever the labels want to sell that month? Doesn't sound better to me at all.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Why can't Apple be more reasonable and reach an agreement with Sony? Why does Apple have to be so stubborn and arrogant?

 

Why do Apple users have to be such fanboys?

 

I was just about to buy an iPhone 5, but now, with no internet radio service, this is the final straw, and I'm gonna have to go with a Samsung Galaxy S III, instead.

 

And believe me, when I tell you that I am no Apple hater. I've been using Apple's products since 1971, and I have 13 Apple desktops and 9 Apple laptops at home. Steve Jobs wouldn't have let this happen. 

 

That about covers it.

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post


Because Apple would have made it better- made you see what you never thought you needed before.
But now they can't.
And you won't know what it is. Neither will I. (sad face)

 

The hit a snag, hardly permanent.  It will happen if Apple wants it to happen.

post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I tried to give some clues, such as using Apple since 1971, so yes, it was in jest. lol.gif

 

As for your suggestion, I don't listen to any internet radio. I subscribe to iTunes Match, as I prefer to own my songs. However, I've recently been disappointed with the changes to iTunes Match that came with iOS6. It's been downgraded, and key features that were available before are no longer there. I am hoping that Apple sees the error that they made and makes it right again. I wouldn't have signed up and paid $25 for iTunes Match, if it existed such as it does today in iOS 6, so I am a little disappointed in Apple.

 

What is different with iTunes match?  Has the Mac version changed?

post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Effectively being able to 'genius' any of the songs you have or listened to, and build a 'radio station' around that genius query from any song in the iTunes store (not just your library).   Think of being able to call a radio station and say "Can you play 3 hours of songs that pair well with Muddy Waters"

LaLa.com which Apple bought.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

How is this an attractive service? With iAds? With pushing whatever the labels want to sell that month? Doesn't sound better to me at all.

 

I think it would be ok, unless you have to "listen" to the ads.  If the ads are on the interface, but you only hear music, I can deal with that.

post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

 

What is different with iTunes match?  Has the Mac version changed?

I'm not sure about the Mac version, I haven't used that in a while.

 

The Music Player on iOS 6 has been changed, and iTunes Match has definitely been changed when using iOS devices.

 

The great thing about iTunes Match was that you could have thousands of your songs stored all in the cloud and you could listen to whatever you wanted to on your Apple devices, without actually storing all of the songs on your device.

 

Before iOS 6, with the press of one button, you could download an individual song and also delete it from your device later on, if you wanted to. You can no longer do that. You have to go through a lot more steps, just to download an individual song. You have to create a playlist just to download one song!

 

And the worst part is that there is no way to erase an individual song anymore. That kind of sucks for people who are trying to organize their music collections on their iOS devices. 

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