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Apple reports 97% of 800K supply chain laborers do not work excessive hours

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
In a brief update to its Supplier Responsibility webpage, Apple quietly announced it is now tracking over 800,000 workers at supply chain factories in China, and noted 97 percent of those employees have 60-hour work weeks as mandated by that country's laws.

The 800,000 number, first spotted by The Next Web, is a substantial increase from the 500,000 tracked workers reported in January, and while the percentage of those working excessive hours has decreased over the intervening months, there has been no change in compliance since July.

Work Hour Tracking
Source: Apple


In January, over 70,000 supply chain employees were working over 60 hours a week, though the number dropped precipitously since then, possibly as a result Apple's partnership with the Fair Labor Association in February. By extrapolating the latest data, as of August there were still over 24,000 Chinese laborers working what Apple considers excessive hours, however compliance with labor rules appears to be slowly rising.

Apple's Chinese manufacturing partners, more specifically Foxconn, became the target of a mass media firestorm (1, 2) regarding labor abuse allegations sparked by a story from monologuist Mike Daisey which aired on NPR. The tale was found to be a fabrication and Daisey was forced to apologize, prompting high-profile publications to issue retractions.

Despite the exaggerated claims, Apple and Foxconn pushed hard to raise working standards, a process that continues to yield positive results.

Most recently, Foxconn was in the news again as a 2,000-person riot shut down the company's Taiyuan factory, the plant reportedly responsible for processing the iPhone 5's backplates.
post #2 of 50
Spin this Apple haters. Not to mention where the Android crap is made ... what are they doing about labor standards?
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #3 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Spin this Apple haters. Not to mention where the Android crap is made ... what are they doing about labor standards?

Okay, I'll take shot.

The authors of this study are on the take from Apple just like the judge and jury were on the take in the Samsung trial. Apple is the most evil corporation in the history of the world but they pay everybody off so they look good.

How's that for some hater spin?
post #4 of 50

I have a simple question for all of the haters, liars and propagandists who like to use words like "slave labor" in their posts.

 

Hey ignorant asshats, where do you think that your devices are made?

post #5 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post


Okay, I'll take shot.
The authors of this study are on the take from Apple just like the judge and jury were on the take in the Samsung trial. Apple is the most evil corporation in the history of the world but they pay everybody off so they look good.
How's that for some hater spin?

 

 

Edit:

 

Apologies to lkrupp. I missed the obvious sarcasm here.  


Edited by Quadra 610 - 9/28/12 at 7:18pm
post #6 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

You just sound crazy.

 

Your sarcasm detection meter needs a bit of tweaking. That's no Fandroid, he's imitating one, and if it sounds crazy, that's because Fandroids are batshit crazy.

post #7 of 50

Sure. Make it 120 hours a week by law and 100% will comply easily.

 

Mandated? Here comes communism twisted into "capitalism".

 

I was born and lived in such country few decades ago... so before pissing me off by talking about something you do not have clue, but you are Apple pundit think twice. Many of us has more life experience than most eloquent English speakers on the subject.

 

We called this demagogy. Try this if you do not know this word coming from Greek:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demagogy

post #8 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

Your sarcasm detection meter needs a bit of tweaking. That's no Fandroid, he's imitating one, and if it sounds crazy, that's because Fandroids are batshit crazy.

 

 

Yeah, you're right. I'm confusing lkrupp with a "lilo777" or whatever.  Geez . . .   smh

 

I'll edit my post, with apologies to lkrupp.   

post #9 of 50
Wow, those 3% must be really feisty!
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If I could put a bug in Steve Jobs' office, I would be able to get some sleep!
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post #10 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Not to mention where the Android crap is made ... what are they doing about labor standards?

The beauty of it is, we really have no clue. Since most people appear not to care.

 

It speaks to the utter shallowness and hypocrisy of these lowlifes: all they want is to sell more newspapers and magazines/get more clicks/get more ads using Apple as the foil and/or spend time spewing hate-filled crap about the company while simultaneously cynically disregarding the consequences of their own consumption behaviors.

post #11 of 50
I don't care what the laws are... 60 hours a week is excessive, even if the law said 90 hours a week was required. just because something is a "law" doesn't mean its right.
post #12 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

I don't care what the laws are... 60 hours a week is excessive, even if the law said 90 hours a week was required. just because something is a "law" doesn't mean its right.

Wow. 

 

Do you live in France?

post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

I don't care what the laws are... 60 hours a week is excessive, even if the law said 90 hours a week was required. just because something is a "law" doesn't mean its right.

60hrs a week is excessive? Tell that to my US company and the countless of other US companies that my friends / family work at. That's the norm here!
post #14 of 50
And that 3% does does work excessive hours is responsible for 65% of production! 1smile.gif
post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I have a simple question for all of the haters, liars and propagandists who like to use words like "slave labor" in their posts.

Hey ignorant asshats, where do you think that your devices are made?

Obviously, in slave labor camps!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Obviously, in slave labor camps!

 

A 60 hour per week slave labor camp? lol.gif

post #17 of 50
Dude most workers on the Apple lines main complaints are about hours. That is not being allowed to work enough of them. There is no need to force anybody to work long hours there are plenty of volunteers.

PS most American retailers require their managers to work a minimum of 60 hrs a week and of course they pay them for 40.
post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

I don't care what the laws are... 60 hours a week is excessive, even if the law said 90 hours a week was required. just because something is a "law" doesn't mean its right.

The Foxconn workers were really upset when the management cut them back to 60 hours. They wanted to work 80-90 so they could make more money and go back to their village sooner. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I have a simple question for all of the haters, liars and propagandists who like to use words like "slave labor" in their posts.

 

Hey ignorant asshats, where do you think that your devices are made?

 

Samsung has been reported as letting their vendors do about anything they want as far as OT, child labor, etc.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

60hrs a week is excessive? Tell that to my US company and the countless of other US companies that my friends / family work at. That's the norm here!


OK. It's just not healthy. The US and China (etc.) need to do something about this work/life balance thing. Across the European Union there has been, for many years, a 'working time directive' (part of health and safety criminal law) that requires all employees to work no more than 48 hours per week (on average over a 17 week rolling period) and employers are committing a criminal act to breach this. Unless the company forbids employees (by policy) from exempting themselves, the 'working time directive' does allow an employee to exempt themselves as a personal choice from this 48 hour limit but most do not unless they work for some companies that have a 'remarkable ability' to acquire such sign off of their rights.

Ultimately, will your family (or your employer!) thank you for being so committed that you gave so much of your life to your employer? Life is short and can be shorter than you think it is going to be; make the most of it. And I speak as someone who has been very committed to work but who has never exceeded the 48 hour limit (even with bursts of late working).
post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbow View Post


OK. It's just not healthy. The US and China (etc.) need to do something about this work/life balance thing. Across the European Union there has been, for many years, a 'working time directive' (part of health and safety criminal law) that requires all employees to work no more than 48 hours per week (on average over a 17 week rolling period) and employers are committing a criminal act to breach this. Unless the company forbids employees (by policy) from exempting themselves, the 'working time directive' does allow an employee to exempt themselves as a personal choice from this 48 hour limit but most do not unless they work for some companies that have a 'remarkable ability' to acquire such sign off of their rights.
Ultimately, will your family (or your employer!) thank you for being so committed that you gave so much of your life to your employer? Life is short and can be shorter than you think it is going to be; make the most of it. And I speak as someone who has been very committed to work but who has never exceeded the 48 hour limit (even with bursts of late working).


Sure, in an ideal world.  It's not an ideal world.  There are too many variables to iron out.  In the US where unemployment is rampant, many people do work their backsides off simply because they know how ugly it is to get another job, or they know if they don't "put out", their are plenty of other applicants that would gladly take that job.  It sucks, but that's how it is.

I lived in Germany for about 5 years and I loved how businesses essentially shut down at 5-6pm.  It's all personal, and family time afterwards.  That was great. That kind of relaxed schedule plus all the stronger labor laws did come at a price thought ihmo regarding socialism and stuff, but that's for another thread.

post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Okay, I'll take shot.
The authors of this study are on the take from Apple just like the judge and jury were on the take in the Samsung trial. Apple is the most evil corporation in the history of the world but they pay everybody off so they look good.
How's that for some hater spin?

How about this:

Headline: 24,000 Apple supply chain workers work over legally restricted 60 hours per week.

Of course, if I were a real troll, it would be much larger and probably lots of bright colors, but you get the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbow View Post

OK. It's just not healthy. The US and China (etc.) need to do something about this work/life balance thing. Across the European Union there has been, for many years, a 'working time directive' (part of health and safety criminal law) that requires all employees to work no more than 48 hours per week (on average over a 17 week rolling period) and employers are committing a criminal act to breach this. Unless the company forbids employees (by policy) from exempting themselves, the 'working time directive' does allow an employee to exempt themselves as a personal choice from this 48 hour limit but most do not unless they work for some companies that have a 'remarkable ability' to acquire such sign off of their rights.
Ultimately, will your family (or your employer!) thank you for being so committed that you gave so much of your life to your employer? Life is short and can be shorter than you think it is going to be; make the most of it. And I speak as someone who has been very committed to work but who has never exceeded the 48 hour limit (even with bursts of late working).

If you have never exceeded the 48 hour limit, you're not really in a position to discuss it, are you?

For many executive and managerial positions, it would be absolutely impossible to get the job done if putting in less than 48 hours per week. Between travel time, dinners with customers, and so on, I've often exceeded 60 hours per week - and my family life has not suffered. Work/life balance is important, but basing that on an arbitrary number doesn't address the issue, either.
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post #23 of 50
Originally Posted by Macasaurus View Post
Wow, those 3% must be really feisty!

 

Without doing a study of my own in any respect, and just going on my past experience (and where my memory fails me, the latent physical feeling I have) on this matter, I would venture that "3%" is also a pretty good guess as to the amount of "Apple users" who whine about every single thing the company does and blow out of proportion every meaningless little whatever.

Originally Posted by helia

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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #24 of 50
Good job Apple! I have faith that you guys can help right the wrongs that are so prevelant in the computer and electronics industry.
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post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

60hrs a week is excessive? Tell that to my US company and the countless of other US companies that my friends / family work at. That's the norm here!

So you and yours work 10-12 hour days, 5-6 days every single week? I hope you're making a pretty good living because you're making your employer wealthy.
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post #26 of 50
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
So you and yours work 10-12 hour days, 5-6 days every single week? I hope you're making a pretty good living because you're making your employer wealthy.

 

It's called being an inner city middle school special ed teacher.

 

No, they aren't compensated for that amount of work, despite it being overtime.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

So you and yours work 10-12 hour days, 5-6 days every single week? I hope you're making a pretty good living because you're making your employer wealthy.

Probably not. Most studies I've seen say that after about 45 hours per week, employee productivity starts to drop off. (it's slightly different for someone like an executive who probably has a good deal of 'down' time on airplanes and hotel lobbies included in his 60-70 hours per week).

The argument for companies using overtime is that they have to pay time and a half, but the cost of benefits does not increase as it would for adding another employer. But that cost of benefits is lower than the overtime once you get much over 60 hours per week. So if his company really is working everyone over 60 hours per week all the time, they're probably losing money at it. The excessive overtime costs, decreased productivity, greater employee turnover, and increased risk of errors would make up for the savings from not hiring additional employees.

There are only two times that it makes sense to work the entire company that many hours:
1. A rush order or immediate customer service need that requires 'all hands on deck' for a temporary project
2. The very unusual situation where you absolutely can't find people qualified to do the work. This is far less common than some people will say.
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post #28 of 50

Glad my employer is really big on work-life balance, and really try to make sure the employees do not work over 40 hours a week... some people need to find better jobs.  Occasionally I've had to work more... even over 60, but thats very rare, most weeks just about 40.  I do not get paid by the hour though, or get overtime, so I really don't want to work more than 40 unless I need to.  No one requires it of me, but if I don't meet deadlines, I'll start having performance review problems... luckily management listens when if we are overworked.

 

When I finally am able to make my own company be my full time job, I'll be spending a long time just because I'd love to... but I won't be pushing my employees to dedicate their lives to the job. making people work 10 hours a day 6 days a week is absurd.

post #29 of 50
Agreed 60 hours is hard work in a factory. 6 ten hour shifts per week. I did a 12 hour shift 6 days a week in a milk factory in the UK when I was fresh out of college. It was hard basically working all the time.

However we must look at what Apple is achieving here. In the past few years they have increased wages, cut down on the hours worked per week and generally improved conditions. You do not hear of Dell, HP or Acer doing anything like this.

In the next few years I bet the hours worked go down to 50 and the total compensation will remain the same or go up.
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

A 60 hour per week slave labor camp? lol.gif

 

Camp Toil and Tears. It has a nice cafeteria, a gym, and swimming pool. Mike Daisey is OUTRAGED about it.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

I don't care what the laws are... 60 hours a week is excessive, even if the law said 90 hours a week was required. just because something is a "law" doesn't mean its right.

 

Well..it depends.    The summer I graduated high school, I worked 75 hours a week + I had 15 hours of traveling time for a total of 90 hours per week (6 days per week).   When I was an executive at a database publishing company, I worked a minimum of 60 hours a week (8am to 8pm each day) when I wasn't traveling and (obviously) more than that when I did.    And many students who are in school full time work another 20 hours per week outside of the classroom.    

 

Now I wasn't working in a factory and standing in front of a fast assembly line all day, so maybe the comparison isn't fair, but I still worked those hours and many other people do as well.    It wasn't that many decades ago that most workers in the U.S. worked those kinds of hours and after dipping to as little as 35 hours per week, especially for union members, the number of hours worked by most people in the U.S., especially if they're not hourly workers, has drastically risen over the past two decades.   Personally, I don't know anyone who works only 40 hours a week.   At the tech company I work for now, few people leave before 7pm and they frequently schedule meetings well before 9am, so we can conference in India before they go home.   And anyone who has to care for children is working 60 hours a week.  We tend to ignore that and not count it as work. 

 

You can't compare labor conditions in China and other third world countries to where we are today - you have to compare them to where we were earlier in our development.    And for someone relatively young, I don't think it's impossible to work 60 hours a week.   That's not to say that I wouldn't like to see the Chinese workers get better working conditions (like being able to sit on a stool at the assembly line, for one thing), but you know there was also a big backlash by those workers when their hours got cut because many (most?) get paid by the hour and they didn't want to lose those hours.    

post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I have a simple question for all of the haters, liars and propagandists who like to use words like "slave labor" in their posts.

 

Hey ignorant asshats, where do you think that your devices are made?

Mine is made in Korea. How about yours?

post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

I don't care what the laws are... 60 hours a week is excessive, even if the law said 90 hours a week was required. just because something is a "law" doesn't mean its right.

 

Why is 60 hours / week excessive?  I'm all for child-labor / 60 hr work week (as long as it's voluntary). 

post #34 of 50
Not to be a fucking idiot or anything but how many hours do that 3% work per week on average?

 

 


Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees

 

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Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees

 

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post #35 of 50
My understanding is most want to work MORE overtime to make more money. At least a while ago. Maybe apple kicking in some rumored money lessened the need. Want is probably still there. I worked 12 hours a day for two years with seven days off. No time to spend the money. Eight hours on Sunday only.
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Spin this Apple haters. Not to mention where the Android crap is made ... what are they doing about labor standards?

 

Well there were underage workers found making Samsung phones in China, nothing has been heard at all about their factories in Vietnam.

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post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Mine is made in Korea. How about yours?

 

Strange all the Samsung phones we sell in Australia are made in Vietnam, including the S III, you won't find it on the box or inside the packaging, you have to take the back of the phone off and it's on the label under the battery.

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post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Mine is made in Korea. How about yours?

If you think Samsung makes everything in Korea, then think again. Samsung uses vendors throughout all of Asia. Most of which are totally unregulated by Samsung or anyone else.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges View Post

Not to be a fucking idiot or anything but how many hours do that 3% work per week on average?

They are probably undocumented. They may work on a piece-meal basis so their time involved is not documented. For example, children that are given a quota. If they don't make quota they are sent to the bordillo to work. Always incentivise your workers.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #40 of 50

I'm a senior manager at a medium sized company.  I typically work 60 to 70 hours per week.  I enjoy my job, and the cash that comes with it, so it is my choice.

 

From what I can gather, many Foxconn workers WANT to work more than 60 hours so that they can collect more overtime.

 

I'm not arguing that these manufacturers aren't exploiting labour, I'm saying that the problem isn't as clear and one sided as the press makes it out to be.

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