NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple - Page 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetry 

But, ignoring disingenuous ads from Google, this is a reasonable subject to debate.

• http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152941/googles-ilost-motorola-ad-faked-an-address-to-lose-ios-6-maps/40#post_2199962

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum 


Great video of map data gathering... Now, if they could only mount that technology on a golf cart…

Or even a backpack.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/google-reveals-an-image-capturing-backpack-and-new-3d-maps/

Companies are going to exceptional lengths to define the landscape. That means there must be money in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


You introduced it when you said that one can't reasonable decide if something is better or worse if it can't be exactly quantified. I'll make sure to use your lameduck argument the next time to blindly claim Apple is ahead of some other company/ I'll likely agree with you that they are but I'll expect you to exactly quantify the unquantifiable as you try to use the Android/Windows user's argument as to why Apple's products are just hype when they can list spec sheet items that have had for years in a very poor form compared to a much better experience Apple usually gets right out of the gate.

So, you aren't able to back up your assertion about how much better Google Maps is, so you thought you'd try a little context shifting to distract from that?

If you want to argue subjective issues, that's fine, just don't pretend they are objective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

If we are going to fault Apple for anything it's for not starting their mapping service sooner, not because Google started their first or because Google is looking out for its own best interest.

When Steve returned to Apple they were in serious financial trouble, and even after he guided the company back to a financial success he was always concerned about having enough cash to prevent any crisis like that from occurring again. In the spirit of conservative expenditures they acquired Placebase and Poly9 which were rather "C" grade mapping companies when they probably should have been looking at some of the top tier companies at the time when Tele Atlas and Navateq were still available. Now there are no more companies like that available except perhaps Tom Tom, Geo Eye, and Yelp. In my opinion, they really should have spent a couple billion more at the time instead of being so conservative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?

This is probably the biggest advantage Google has over Apple in mapping. Through their web based maps, millions of people are plotting POIs, writing reviews, and adding businesses to the maps data set. Google also has all of its search data to bring to bear and integrate with their mapping solution. Those are some very powerful tools that Apple just doesn't have anything close to matching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlituna 


But even the iTunes store isn't perfect. 

None of it's going to be perfect. It's the internet. 

This flak against Apple is now reaching ridiculous extremes. Way out of proportion. Other notable players can barely get a mobile platform off the ground - or are failing completely, never mind getting to enjoy the luxury of having a maps app as the biggest mark against it. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan 


OK so Google is in the hardware business via MM acquisition. Point conceded. But does anyone really think Google purchased MM because they wanted to get into the hardware business? The Nexus 7 tablet was done in partnership with Asus and Google claims they're not making any profit off it (not sure how much Asus is).

Personally I don't think Google has much interest in the hardware side of things either, but that doesn't mean I'm correct. They could absolutely have future plans involving new hardware and products unrelated to smartphones that no one here is privy to. 

Unfortunately for Google and other competitors, maps makes up only a small part of a comprehensive mobile ecosystem.

The attempt to paint the iOS ecosystem (which is currently without peer) as somehow flawed because a map app still needs some work, is laughable. It goes to show just how far the also-rans and their shills will go to fight Apple's mindshare. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorguy 

Personally I don't think Google has much interest in the hardware side of things either, but that doesn't mean I'm correct. They could absolutely have future plans involving new hardware and products unrelated to smartphones that no one here is privy to. 

I have heard that they bought Moto mostly for the patents but I would be surprised if they quit making phones.

The NYT piece is seriously flawed. But the premise is not completely off base. Apple's recent track record is checkered - Ping and MobileMe were disasters. ITunes is effective but bloated. AppStore is also effective but messy. ICloud is working better now but there were out-of-the-gate stumbles. Even now, it is not the most intuitive software and certainly does not "just work" as advertised. And now, we have Maps. The fact of the matter is that Maps may be the biggest software project Apple has ever pulled off; the world is a rather large place after all.

Again, the NYT piece is flawed but Apple had this coming. They may need strong leadership for large scale software. I am tempted to say Forstall nor Cue may have the requisite experience. On the other hand, the products are not complete duds.
 

Perhaps the headline for this article should be: iOS Maps review another journalism blunder for NYT Technolgy staff.

Originally Posted by charlituna 
Video side has major issues with timings, quality, pricing. Metadata for everything sucks.

Hmm. That sounds like the opposite of my experience. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I've provided clear examples where Google Maps is better than the week old Apple Maps. You're choosing to put your head up your ass by ignoring the various ways that Google is ahead of Apple right now. You make Apple and fans of Apple look bad.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just asking people to either back up comments that pretend to be objective, or to stop pretending that they are.

I must be doing something wrong. Maps has been working beautifully for me. I find fewer strange directions and errors than Google Maps. It's easier to use. The display is better. Traffic info is somehow more detailed and accurate (though they must all pull from the same databases). And the integration with Siri makes it an actual useful tool. Even the 3D, sort of a gimmick but fun, looks great. Even with an occasional distortion, it's far more useful than what I had with Google. 

I'm sure there are errors, just I have found some big ones with Google Maps in the past. And I'd like some interface and settings tweaks that I can't find yet. But I really like the change. Is it just that Apple is being criticized for its own success? I can't get my Microsoft OS (bought from their own store) to view itself as a legal copy. Adobe products are getting crazier and crazier in their mad dash for a buck out of every last user. And that any of this stuff works at all is a miracle. Has Apple so pushed the computer product as dependable appliance that we grow to view it as more dependable than the refrigerator and washing machine?

NYT is not exactly an advocate of Apples even though each day they derive more and more of their income from Apples Newstand APP.

Every story I've ever read from NYT pertaining to Apple has a negative undertone. Not to mention that they are also late to the table putting out any news on Apple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac_128 


Why do you care? What's the point?
Tim Cook has already said Apple made a mistake, and tacitly admitted with a milquetoast public apology that Apple's Maps is not as Good as Google's web app by suggesting users try as a result of their dissatisfaction with Apple's own.
There is no point in spending any more time defending Apple on this matter. Tim Cook did not have the brass to stand up to the media criticism, and now everyone from the media to its competitors and their respective fanbase have all the ammunition they need.
It doesn't matter that Apple Maps is arguably the best Map App developed to date, nor that very few people are actually having major problems with it. Tim Cook has kicked the legs out from under his company's major initiative dealing it a setback that has tainted all of the hard work that went into this App by Apple's talented employees, and cast doubt on any future initiatives Apple embarks on.
Sadly, facts don't matter anymore.

Yes, I completely agree that Tim Cook messed up big time on his handling of this. Hopefully, he'll learn from his mistakes, and from how his predecessor handled similar situations in the past, and he won't make that mistake again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifij775 

Am I the only one who thinks the NYT's version of journalism consists of kicking a man when he's down. I have to roll my eyes with each new "unnamed source"

The New York Times has not consisted of Journalism in many years.

Originally Posted by iSheldon 
Karma comes biting you in the ass.

I guess it makes sense that idiots would want to put their mouths back there. At least to them.

Apple music players will never get close to Sony's.

Apple phones will never get close to RIM's.

Apple laptops will never be cheaper than PCs.

Apple desktops will never be rated higher than PCs. 

Come on.

Then it's a crying shame that a company JUST entering the latter field is a year away from making them irrelevant in that marketplace, isn't it? Funny how that works, seeing as Apple has done it multiple times in multiple industries.

"ALL ABOARD FOR THE 4:15 TROLL EXPRESS, BOUND FOR TOLJASO, APLISDUMD, AND UNFINISHED SECTION OF TRACK OVERLOOKING A CLIFF!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSheldon 

Who are we trying to fool here with all these ridiculous comments that it will catch up and surpass Goggle ? That train left the station eons ago.

Apple Maps may very well catch up and surpass the Google Maps for iOS that it replaces because that represented only a subset of the full Google Maps. As 'Soilp' pointed out earlier in the thread, Apple made the best choice among some really bad options. I agree that it will be an overwhelming challenge and they will likely never achieve complete parity with the full Google Maps for Android, desktop browsers or the Google Earth application but Apple maps will be adequate and at least they are out from under the thumb of Google in one more area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

So, exactly how big is Google's advantage? Quantify it. Globally. Otherwise, all we have are anecdotal tales about this and that. If one is going to claim that Google's maps are "so much better", I think one ought to quantify "so much". Otherwise, how do we know "so much" isn't "a little" or even "sometimes better, sometimes worse, depending on the data one looks at"?

Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.

You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:

Has a street level view: Google = 1, Apple = 0
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0

There you go: 2 to 0.


Let's reverse the scenario. Lets say that Apple has had the mapping for years and Google has recently gotten into it just last week replaced their Android Maps app using the Apple Maps back-end with their own. Now lets say that you see that when you share a link it will still open up in Apple Maps on the web because Google has no web presence for their maps. Are you going to say that you'd not call out Google for still relying on Apple and not point out that Google's mapping simple isn't a complete? Of course you would!

Interesting...  Apple does have a limited web presence for maps with Find My Phone on the iCloud site.  Both the beta iCloud and normal iCloud use Google as a backend for Find My Phone.   The Find My Phone app on iOS 6 uses TomTom as a backend.

In my experience, the iDevice (TomTom) version is better than the web (Google) version.   I didn't notice [the backend] at the time, but I tracked my granddaughter's recent trips to Vancouver BC and Chicago using iOS 6 MAps on my iPad -- it was quite good!

I did drop back to iOS 5 running on an iPad 1 to capture a few street views  :)  Though now, I'd use the Street Viewer app on iOS 6.

What this signifies to me, is that Apple has a plan to replace all its external mapping backends with what they use in iOS Maps 6.   As that matures, it should be a a relatively easy process to switch backends when the time is appropriate.  Then Apple could open up a maps.apple.com web site to the general public...  

Likely, it would be most used for:

• sharing maps with non-apple mobile devices
• a 3D alternative to Google Earth or Nokia Maps on computers or mobile devices
• to flesh out, refine and correct Apple Mapping Services