NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple - Page 5

 

No - I wasn't trying to imply that you had ignored it - I was suggesting that the debate is relevant without Google's take on it.

Take a course in critical thinking. Nothing in Cook's letter says that they made a mistake, nor does it say that it's not as good as Google's app.

You might want to start by reading the letter for comprehension instead of simply pretending that it says what you want it to say.


That's what I don't get. Google has clearly been lying about this matter. First, they claim that they were blindsided and had no warning, and then it becomes clear that they've been working on alternatives for months (see their introduction of new features, for example. Those don't happen overnight).

So it's OK for Google to flat out lie, but if someone finds a single error in an Apple map, it's the end of the world (even though there are errors in Google's maps, too)?


That's a perfectly legitimate argument - and one that I've never disagreed with. If you need street view, then Apple's Maps is inferior to Google's Maps. (personally, I don't see the value - if you know how to read a map, just what good does Streetview or Flyover do?) If that's your criterion for choosing a map, though, Google Maps is the way to go. No question about it.

But that's not what this entire maps-gate issue is about. Groups like the NYT are screaming that Apple's Maps are unreliable - without a shred of evidence to back it up.


So 1 million people repeating the same unfounded assertion makes it true?

Let's see:
jobs is god 285,000,000 hits

google sucks 98,800,800 hits

rich is a moron 5,880,000 hits

Since all of those got more hits than 'apple maps wrong', they must be more true, right?

Apple owns the maps on there ios so google can move on..bye bye.

 

So the troll on AI doesn't understand that the difference doesn't matter in the slightest? 

 

Your points are moot unless you get a clue. 

Edited by Tallest Skil - 9/29/12 at 9:57am

 

One of the difficulties in comparing the 2 apps is the "level of detail" displayed by each.  Google Maps tends to display "All the detail, all the time -- regardless of zoom level".  Apple maps try to "focus detail appropriate to the zoom level -- by showing major roads and neighborhoods at outer zoom, then adding street detail when appropriate".

 

Some (not all) "examples" we have seen that show Apple maps as inferior, are just the difference in how data is displayed at a given zoom level -- you find that you get the appropriate detail when you zoom in or out.

 

I think that the Apple approach is more efficient and a superior user experience:  vector maps overlaid with detail appropriate to the zoom level -- as opposed to detail bit-map tiles at every zoom level.

 

I understand that Android Google maps is using vector maps instead/in addition to bit-mapped tiles...  but I have never seen or used this so I have no way to compare...

I suppose that would be one solution. I personally have only used Street View a half dozen times on iOS although I do use it often on the desktop. There are third party viewers for iOS already available in the App store people can use those in the interim. I think the map location and geography errors are a more pressing issue at the moment. Once those are fixed Apple maps will be adequate for core mapping and there is always the Google mobile and regular web apps if you need more features that Apple maps does not offer. Personally I hope they improve the aerial imagery soon as it really is subpar in my opinion and that is something that is unrelated to mapping data. That is just a matter of spending the money on good high res images.

Only a child would paint such a childish picture.

The adults on this forum understand that when Google decided to turn on its former partner by competing against them, Apple had to find another source for mapping data. The only story here is that the data is less accurate in some cases. And don't pretend Google is perfect: I've had Google Maps route me into a dead end street twice while trying to navigate to business addresses, but NYT didn't write a scandal piece on that.

Where did Google say they were "blind-sided"? What exactly did they say they were "blind-sided" by? What specifically did they lie about?

 

As for "working on alternatives" they've been regularly rolling out new features for Google Maps, and particularly Google Maps for Android, for years. That all those new features or improvements didn't make it to iOS users isn't up to just Google.

I haven't really used Maps in iOS6 but I hope it improves over 5 dramatically.

Since Apple switched its database for shops and local items away from Google the maps and local search function was nothin less than completely infuriating. It was completely useless in the UK. I ended up having to use Google Maps on the browser.

I am no fan of Google but Apple's database in the UK is embarrassing.

Perspective seems to of gone out of the window with most people on this Maps Vs G Maps. Appls product is young and will mature. It's bound to have some issues.

Disappointingly the areas I have checked in the UK do not look promising for it...

Actually it was Steve Jobs who got blindsided. He partnered with Google in a number of areas regarding IPhone. He even allowed Schmidt on the BOD, knowing full well that Google was working with Android. For him not to have realized that iPhone and Android were eventually going to be in competition with one another was perfect example of someone living in denial because of a longstanding partnership. This current break up is rather like a divorce. Both parties are going to feel some pain but from Apple's perspective it amounted to irreconcilable differences.

I hope I'm wrong, but I worry this could be apple's "47 percent" moment.

 

Kind of hard to use a political analogy when the consequences of it haven't even been decided yet.

That makes a big assumption that Steve Jobs and others at Apple weren't cognizant that Android could become problematic and a competitor at some future point. I'm of the opinion Apple knew exactly who they were getting in bed with and were using Google to Apple's benefit as long as they could, but realized at some point they'd need to go. That point perhaps just came a lot faster than Apple may have projected.

 

Maybe Mr. Jobs even felt he could better control or at the least strongly influence Google's plans by partnering with them, making it more beneficial to play along for the moment than compete. I personally believe Steve Jobs was fully aware of Android's potential but hoped to slow things down by making it worth Google's while to do as he asked. The insult came when they did not do as he said. That made it time to start breaking the partnership.

 

Personally I give Mr Jobs and Apple's executive team a lot more credit for reading the market and identifying tech and wouldn't for even a moment suggest they were so clueless and ignorant as to not know what Google was working on or it's potential. IMO if they were blindsided by anything it was the speed of Android's uptake, not that Android became a competitor.

Edited by Gatorguy - 9/29/12 at 10:26am

 

No, the real issue is bowing down and making some embarrassing apology for issues a few users out of millions are whining about.  Leadership. That is the difference between Cook and Jobs.  After reading his biography, I came away with the distinct opinion that Jobs was an a#$hole to work with, but at least he had stones.  I would rather hear "You're holding it wrong" than hear him go blathering on about how sorry he was and point people to buy other phones until "we get it fixed".  This issue has been blown out of proportion, just like the antenna issue, and it is just silly.  "Oh no, my transit directions are gone?  How will I get to work now?  Where are my bike paths?  How will I ever find them now that they're not on my iPhone?"  If there is an inaccuracy, report it an move on.  If you would like a feature included, ask and move on, but don't cry like a baby on every blog or forum about it.

 

With Apple, since the Apple ][ it has always been the "software" that sets Apple "hardware" apart from the others.

 

In earlier machines or peripherals *  much of the "software" was in the ROMS, PROMS and EPROMS.  This has evolved to where most of the "software" is in the OS and apps.  

 

* the Integrated Woz Machine on the Apple Disk ][ and the Mac

 

 

As "services" become more-integrated into the OS, they and their supporting "software", essentially, become part of the "hardware".

 

"It just works" would not be possible without the software to make it happen!

Cut to WWDC 2013 with Schmidt (a la Bill Gates) on the gigantic screen greeting Cook ( who in return will welcome him with open arms) and iFans. Google will be back with their new Map App with both Street and Resident View. And all will be right in the world.

Apple has fabulous on line stores for music, apps, and their hardware. The rest of their online services have been adequate at best. The constant rebranding and shuffling speaks to this. Apple has plenty of cash. Yahoo would make a nice fit, creating an online division separate from hardware.

 

Whatever you're smoking, go find your dealer and ask him not to cross his psilocybins with his opiates.

Okay, but why?

 

To me, "It just works" is never the biggest selling point. The biggest selling point to me is the Apps, Apps that can't be found in other platforms that enable me to do extra stuffs. iDevices still get frozen, still get wifi issues, GPS issues etc just like other devices, maybe less frequently but still frequent enough for me to not think they 'just works'. 

Same for me. I only noticed one totally wrong thing in my neighborhood with a shop pinned to the wrong side of the street. Everything else was things like one pin location for everything in a mini mall, pinning the south side parking lot not the north side actual building. Annoying but not tragic.

The real trouble is the hyping up of stuff like that park in Ireland being labeled an Airport because it is called Airpark Park. But really, use some sense. If someone is flying a plane and doesn't know where the airports are the real reason is how they got a license in the first place. That is the kind of thing a pilot should know before they take off. Not wait until they need it and then they are dumb enough to grab a neophyte consumer mapping service for guidance. I hope no pilot is that dumb

 

Yep!  Sometimes we like our angels with a little dirt on their wings or their halos a bit askew.

Liar. It's Apple. It is supposed to be perfect all the time.

And we all know people are buying this phone for the Maps and no other reason. Just like they all got the 4sfor Siri. Apple should give us all our money back and free phones. This is an outrage

(did that sound about right?)

You better return that phone now because Street View is protected IP of Google and thus will never be 'built in' as they don't license it to those using other map data.

What is the legal address for the Monument. That is likely how the pin was assigned. Not the gps of the Monument.

The bus stop? Who knows on that one?

The first test I did with maps was my home adres in the Netherlands: bingo, correct street name and very up to date aerial photo's.
But Google maps has a completely outdated photo that's 5 years old and an incorrect (and annoying) street name.
So, from this mini statistics I can conclude that Apple maps is 100% all the time while Google maps is 0% right and 100% crap.
But seriously if you read through the posts you will find several examples of mistakes in Google maps. And I can assure you, lots and lots of other mistakes nobody knows right now will be found in Google maps.

J.

Not true. Garmin's iOS navigation and mapping app is offering Google's Streetview right alongside Navteq/Nokia licensed maps.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-57520066-233/garmin-adds-street-view-public-transit-to-its-other-ios-apps/

The more I explore Apple Maps, the more I like it.  This first 1.0 release already beats Google Maps even with it's flaws.

 

1.  Vector based maps.

2.  FlyOver

3.  Turn-by-turn direction.

4.  Point of interest Info, Reviews, Photos

5.  Siri integration.

 

If you honestly explore these things on the new iPad or the new iPhone the superiority is so obvious.

 

I can wait for Bus, Train, Subway, Bike, Walking, Boat, Underwater/Submarine routes to be integrated world wide.

No single company can provide all this information for the entire world so many 3rd parties will do the job.

 

Not to mention information like demographic, political, financial, crime etc that will be provided by third party.

It a whole new gold rush folks.  Apple has reinvented portable mapping...

 

If Google is smart, they will embrace and extend Apple Maps by developing 3rd party layers for Apple Maps that will make use of Google Backend Data because the Apple architecture is much better.  You will soon see a booming Apple Maps add-on layer market from 3rd parties all over the world.  Does Google wants to stand by and let others take that market on Apple Maps when it already has valuable data?

 

Check out this demo of PolicyMaps, which is based on PlaceBase; a company that Apple purchased years ago to integrate in Apple Maps.

http://www.policymap.com/demo.html

 

Time will tell.

Edited by AppleSauce007 - 9/29/12 at 11:22am

Problem is it doesn't always "just work". Maps is case in point. iTunes Match and iCloud don't always "just work".

Apple will make it better as Tim promised.

Then "Jump the Shark" for those with no foresight.

 

 

Apple could have explained the problem with something like:  

 

"We wanted to bring the best and most up-to-date mapping services to our iOS customers.  Unfortunately, we were unable to negotiate an agreement with Google to provide those services... so we decided to built a new mapping service from the ground up.  We are late to the game, but we will work to provide the best solution to our customers!"

 

 

This is a statement of fact -- not a blame game or pissing contest.  However, the observer can "read between the lines", do a little research, surmise what happened, and assign any blame as they see fit.

 

Had they done it this way, likely, half of the bloggers/journalists would have taken Apple's side and made Tim's apology unnecessary.

 

 

Finally, All this bad publicity and Tim's apology -- is still publicity.

 

Apple has accepted the challenge in the public forum -- now, all they need do is "perform" and fix the problems.   Once they do that, they will have a net gain from the publicity...  one step back, then a leap forward for Apple.

If people need street view that bad there is an app for it. I just used it the other day. No it's not integrated the way street view was in the previous maps app but its there. I find t hard to believe lack of integrated street view renders the iPhone useless.

Yeah cause Steve wasn't behind Mobile Me, the iPhone 4 antenna design flaw, Siri, Final Cut X.

Seriously you are the one that needs to get a clue about how tech releases work in reality.

 

Kind of hard to use that analogy, which is the same intent with different words, when the consequences of this action haven't been shown yet.

]
iCloud.com works just fine on a PC
Edited by charlituna - 9/29/12 at 11:18am

 

Yes, but Google, currently, provides the backend for the iCloud website.

Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/29/12 at 12:19pm

I haven't had any problems with Apple Maps. Though one time it did suggest a U-Turn instead of a left turn then another left turn, either way would have worked, but the U-Turn should have been the second choice.

I'm quite certain that Apple Maps is far better than any other Mapping service was in their first week. It's certainly better written and has far more data then any other mapping service did in it's infancy. I suppose that there may be less than 0.1% errors (a significant amount) in the data, but it's so likely that this will all be fixed quickly.

 

Isn't it strange?  One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications.  One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").

My experience so far has been that Apple's maps are quite a bit more accurate than Google's. I went through my history (thanks Apple for keeping that on the new app, BTW!), and all the places I had trouble with Google were spot on with Apple. Yes, I do miss Streetview, but that's not an issue either as there is still the standalone StreetViewer app.

Like some others have posted, the claims of Apple's lack of detail seem to primarily be lies of omission. They conveniently neglect to mention that detail increases as you zoom in.