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NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple - Page 6

post #201 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree. It is all about trying to stir up more anti Apple sentiment. The article is even titled in a way to mislead and get eyeballs. It reads at first glance as if the current solution was a last minute idea. This is tabloid journalism at its worst and a trend here on AI also and frankly turning me off reading AI more and more.
It seems AI is more interested in attracting Apple haters these days. I am going to go read Mac Rumors now and I may not be back here much as I used to be.

Again,the NYT doing an anti-apple article when the stock reach near all time highs and came back a bit. Is like they are trying to fuel the selloff to buy lower.
post #202 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

Isn't it strange?  One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications.  One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").
Just like people who bitched when the iPad got ever so slightly thicker and heavier (to accommodate that brilliant retina display) and now are bitching that the iPhone 5 is too thin and light and feels like a cheap toy. It's basically heads I win tails you lose.
post #203 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

This is probably the biggest advantage Google has over Apple in mapping. Through their web based maps, millions of people are plotting POIs, writing reviews, and adding businesses to the maps data set. Google also has all of its search data to bring to bear and integrate with their mapping solution. Those are some very powerful tools that Apple just doesn't have anything close to matching.

I don't get why they are only focusing on iOS. They still use Google Maps with their Find My iPhone service in iCloud instead of their own back end or even OpenStreetMaps. Would even that had been an issue to include when they updated iCloud recently? Perhaps I'm missing something but I'd think a web presence would be pinnacle to the rapid advancement and success of Apple Maps as the de facto mapping back end.

 

 

Find My Phone on an iDevice uses a TomTom backend -- On iCloud it uses a Google backend.

 

Here is what I think Apple is doing:

  1. getting mobile mapping off of Google ASAP
  2. eventually, migrate all Apple mapping to the new backend
  3. avoid the problems when trying to change everything at once ala MobileMe

 

I think #1 is most important in that it prevents Google from tracking millions of iDevices and using billions of map requests to refine the Google backend.

 

I suspect that a statistician could plot the tipping point that results from removing billions of requests from Google and moving them to Apple.

 

Data... is Da' Man!

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post #204 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 

Apple could have explained the problem with something like:  

 

"We wanted to bring the best and most up-to-date mapping services to our iOS customers.  Unfortunately, we were unable to negotiate an agreement with Google to provide those services... so we decided to built a new mapping service from the ground up.  We are late to the game, but we will work to provide the best solution to our customers!"

 

 

This is a statement of fact -- not a blame game or pissing contest.  However, the observer can "read between the lines", do a little research, surmise what happened, and assign any blame as they see fit.

 

Had they done it this way, likely, half of the bloggers/journalists would have taken Apple's side and made Tim's apology unnecessary.

 

 

Finally, All this bad publicity and Tim's apology -- is still publicity.

 

Apple has accepted the challenge in the public forum -- now, all they need do is "perform" and fix the problems.   Once they do that, they will have a net gain from the publicity...  one step back, then a leap forward for Apple.

 

 

Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like.  The apology was unnecessary, and this all would have settled down in a few weeks just like any other "Applegate" issue has.  iOS6 has only been officially released for a week or so, so it is natural to have all eyes on it.  As people calm down and the emotion subsides I like to think that rational thought would have returned.

 

Apple did what had to be done.  It wasn't painless, but now they can look towards the future and can do it their way for their customers.  They are no longer at the mercy of Google for their mapping.  This is an admirable position to be in, not being dependent on a competitor.  Does anyone doubt that Apple will address any outstanding issues in a very short time-frame?  There are alternatives out there, but Apple looked weak in pointing them out publicly.

post #205 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

Isn't it strange?  One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications.  One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").

Count me among those that don't like things being broken up across multiple apps. I do not understand the people complaining about iTunes, having everything in one place is ALWAYS better, and iTunes as it is now is the best-of the best. It's breaking the iTunes functions up on iOS that ticks me off. I do not want to have to use 4 different apps to access the content that I have all together on one library on my Mac. It's bad UI, IMO.
post #206 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

 

Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like.  

Perhaps it was not about money. Both Google and Apple are fighting for mind share. If the deal breaker was Google branding in the Maps app or Google harvesting user data in the Maps app, there is no amount of money that can fix that.

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post #207 of 444

What a lazy, cheap report by the NYT, as expected. Also, they're pretty late to the game on piling on. Instead of doing a real analysis of the new apps, and what building a mapping solution from the ground up entails, they swelve into the 'unanamed sources say Apple sucks and don't know how do do internet stuff' bullshit. This isn't 2007. Apple is now maybe only 2nd to Google in terms of Cloud expertise, and iCloud is perhaps the best, most used, and most ambitious cloud service I've ever used. It handles a myriad of things like syncing everything, full backups, photo streaming, app syncing, etc by hundreds of millions of very active users a day, and have massive bandwidth costs and scalability. The appstore is completely cloud based, and the best in the world.  As is everything Apple has done in the last few years. No, maps doesn't have issues because Apple is incompetent in internet services. It's because its fucking complicated, can't be perfected in a lab, and anyone with an ounce of perspective should be able to aknowledge the ambitiousness of the project, as well as the impressive v.1 launch product. After search, this is Google's 2nd biggest product, which they've been investing billions of dollars in for the better part of a decade, with crowd sourced data from hundreds of millions during that time - yet maps is 'shit' because on day 1 it's not completely on par in SOME respects. NYT needs to get back at what it does best- toilet paper. It tells you something when half of the mocking screenshots out there are because of errors in the 3D- something that has no impact on useability, where the corresponding Google areas would be completely flat, and an example where Aple is being punished for being ultra-ambitious and using state of the art technology which of course will have growing pains instead of taking the much easier way out and using only high resolution shots. Yeah, seamlessly blending 3D and satelllite imagery from planes is not perfect ALL THE TIME- who would have thought??!

 

Also, I don't see how the hell deciding to do their own mapping servies is evidence of "lack of focus"? That's the very definition of "focus". 


Edited by Slurpy - 9/29/12 at 11:33am
post #208 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

My experience so far has been that Apple's maps are quite a bit more accurate than Google's. I went through my history (thanks Apple for keeping that on the new app, BTW!), and all the places I had trouble with Google were spot on with Apple. Yes, I do miss Streetview, but that's not an issue either as there is still the standalone StreetViewer app.
Like some others have posted, the claims of Apple's lack of detail seem to primarily be lies of omission. They conveniently neglect to mention that detail increases as you zoom in.
 
Probably because "they" neglected to use the app thoroughly to examine all of the features and just repeat what others have repeated from those same others.  
post #209 of 444
These mapping articles are getting seriously annoying...this site has more articles relating to this one fixable Beta stage issue than any other I've seen...mostly of the "This person said this bad thing about Apple maps...GET 'EM CULT MEMBERS." and it's annoying.

NYT is annoying...the bigger issue than it really is people are annoying.

come late 2013 or early 2014 I doubt there will be much to complain about anymore...and all will be fine...and this will be forgotten.

iOS 6 Maps isn't as good as Google Maps...on Android at least...and that's fine. I don't know why everyone (including outside of this site) cares so much.
post #210 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


Count me among those that don't like things being broken up across multiple apps. I do not understand the people complaining about iTunes, having everything in one place is ALWAYS better, and iTunes as it is now is the best-of the best. It's breaking the iTunes functions up on iOS that ticks me off. I do not want to have to use 4 different apps to access the content that I have all together on one library on my Mac. It's bad UI, IMO.

 

 

Oh, I am not judging on which is more usable.  I was just illustrating that you cannot please everyone, and never could.

post #211 of 444

Google will have to embrace and extend Apple Maps if they want to remain relevant in the long term.

 

3rd Parties will be creating World Wide Bus, Train, Subway, Bike, Walking, Boat, Underwater/Submarine routes to be integrated in Apple Maps. No single company can provide all this information for the entire world so many 3rd parties will have to do the job.  Not to mention information like demographic, political, financial, crime etc that will be provided by third parties.

 

If Google is smart, they will embrace and extend Apple Maps by developing 3rd party layers for Apple Maps that will make use of Google Backend Data.  Because the Apple architecture is much better, you will soon see a booming Apple Maps add-on layer market from 3rd parties all over the world. Does Google wants to stand by and let others take that market on Apple Maps when it already has valuable data?

 

 

Remember PolicyMaps?  http://www.policymap.com/demo.html

 

It a whole new gold rush similar to the Mobile Apps rush folks...

Apple has reinvented portable mapping...  Time will tell.


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 9/29/12 at 11:38am
post #212 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

This it the result of what happens when one decides to go all "thermonuclear"- Karma comes biting you in the ass.
Vengeance is not a righteous driving force.
Apple's mapping will never get close to Google's. Google is defined by its search and mapping engines. Who are we trying to fool here with all these ridiculous comments that it will catch up and surpass Google's ? That train left the station eons ago.

 

We'll see...  the test of a service is the number of users/requests that use it.  If millions of iOS devices (owners with great, proven demographics) substitute Siri and Apple Maps for the Google search and map offerings -- what does that do for the appeal of Google advertising?

 

And, those iOS user will uses Apple's offerings because they are integrated and more convenient:

 

Me:  "Siri: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

Siri:  "Turn left on..."

 

You were expecting "Siri:  Practice, practice, practice"?

 

 

Me: "Siri: How do I get from SFO to Cupertino?"

Siri:  

 


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/29/12 at 12:40pm
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post #213 of 444
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Me:  "Siri: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

Siri:  "Turn left on..."

 

You were expecting "Siri:  Practice, practice, practice"?

 

I think I'd actually prefer a 1 in 10 chance that she appends "and you should probably learn an instrument" to the instructions for that. lol.gif

 

Throw in little jokes like that every so often in addition to the proper info.

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post #214 of 444

With its over-the-top negativity, the NYT is expressing its anger at Apple for not releasing subscriber info.

 

Cook needn't have been quite so apologetic, but he needs to step back from the daily grind of running the business, to gain better overall perspective.

post #215 of 444

Another brilliant piece, calling for Forstall's head over maps, basically the guy wh architected iOS and is most responsible for Apple's current success after Jobs. 

 

 

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a-scott-forstall-problem/

Quote:
"There's no excuse," Garner writes. "Quality control on Apple Maps had to have been terrible to not get this right. Bluntly, Scott Forstall should be fired over this mess."

 

These arm-chair analysts, who have never done anything worthwhile in their lives, are disgusting.  Yeah, Forstall should be 'fired'. Who will take his place? The writer? What a bunch of vicious, "kick them when they're down" baboons. What an utter lack of perspective. The guy is in charge of the most successful mobile OS on the planet. Give him a shred of credit, you fuckwits. He's the closest thing to a Jobs that Apple has, or will ever have. Maybe SJ should have quit after any one of the number of "blunders" under his watch too?

post #216 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps it was not about money. Both Google and Apple are fighting for mind share. If the deal breaker was Google branding in the Maps app or Google harvesting user data in the Maps app, there is no amount of money that can fix that.

 

I agree, the sticking points of the negotiation are unknown. We hear "sources close to the situation" mention what you did above, but the devil is in the details.  Mindshare is not lacking for either company, so I don't understand why Google would be haggling over branding.  It is the back-end data that they want, so I could see that as a potential road-block.  However, the sensationalist headlines are just that Apple dumped Google Maps and Apple's maps suck, which average users read as "they don't care about the customer, look what they left us with...", not seeing the big picture.  It used to be that the only two issues that would bring rational people to blows(and not the good kind) would be politics and religion.  Add Apple to that list now.  

post #217 of 444

I think I'd actually prefer a 1 in 10 chance that she appends "and you should probably learn an instrument" to the instructions for that. lol.gif

 

Throw in little jokes like that every so often in addition to the proper info.

She is already a sassy bitch you don't need to encourage her.

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post #218 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So 1 million people repeating the same unfounded assertion makes it true?
Let's see:
jobs is god 285,000,000 hits
google sucks 98,800,800 hits
rich is a moron 5,880,000 hits
Since all of those got more hits than 'apple maps wrong', they must be more true, right?

 

How can you possibly say that an assertion that has been backed by Apple CEO Tim Cook ("At Apple, we strive to make world-class products that deliver the best experience possible to our customers. With the launch of our new Maps last week, we fell short on this commitment.") has no founding?

 

And it's all about comparing results...

 

rich is a genius: 80,700,000 hits 

 

:P

post #219 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Just like people who bitched when the iPad got ever so slightly thicker and heavier (to accommodate that brilliant retina display) and now are bitching that the iPhone 5 is too thin and light and feels like a cheap toy. It's basically heads I win tails you lose.

 

If I make small shoes, the people with big feet complain.

If I make big shoes, the people with small feet complain.

Complain complain complain. That's what these forums are all about.

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post #220 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post


Cut to WWDC 2013 with Schmidt (a la Bill Gates) on the gigantic screen greeting Cook ( who in return will welcome him with open arms) and iFans. Google will be back with their new Map App with both Street and Resident View. And all will be right in the world.

 

That imaginary scene is some kind of Fandroid pornography.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Apple is working to improve Maps.

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post #221 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

Maps will never be fixed until it gets a built-in street view. We'd been spoiled.

You better return that phone now because Street View is protected IP of Google and thus will never be 'built in' as they don't license it to those using other map data.

 

I think that the Street Viewer app for iOS uses a Google backend.  Apparently, they will also offer Google Maps for the map view in Oct.

 

http://streetviewer-en.mymapplus.com

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post #222 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here is what I think Apple is doing:

  1. getting mobile mapping off of Google ASAP
  2. eventually, migrate all Apple mapping to the new backend
  3. avoid the problems when trying to change everything at once ala MobileMe

 

I think #1 is most important in that it prevents Google from tracking millions of iDevices and using billions of map requests to refine the Google backend.

 

I suspect that a statistician could plot the tipping point that results from removing billions of requests from Google and moving them to Apple.

You make a good point, with which I would combine Gruber's suggestions:

http://daringfireball.net/2012/09/timing_of_apples_map_switch

 

Apple doesn't have infinite development resources and migration away from Google maps in iOS was highest priority. Migration away from Google maps in iCloud can take place at Apple's relative leisure over the coming year.

post #223 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

The more I explore Apple Maps, the more I like it.  This first 1.0 release already beats Google Maps even with it's flaws.

 

1.  Vector based maps.

2.  FlyOver

3.  Turn-by-turn direction.

4.  Point of interest Info, Reviews, Photos

5.  Siri integration.

 

If you honestly explore these things on the new iPad or the new iPhone the superiority is so obvious.

 

I can wait for Bus, Train, Subway, Bike, Walking, Boat, Underwater/Submarine routes to be integrated world wide.

No single company can provide all this information for the entire world so many 3rd parties will do the job.

 

Not to mention information like demographic, political, financial, crime etc that will be provided by third party.

It a whole new gold rush folks.  Apple has reinvented portable mapping...

 

If Google is smart, they will embrace and extend Apple Maps by developing 3rd party layers for Apple Maps that will make use of Google Backend Data because the Apple architecture is much better.  You will soon see a booming Apple Maps add-on layer market from 3rd parties all over the world.  Does Google wants to stand by and let others take that market on Apple Maps when it already has valuable data?

 

Check out this demo of PolicyMaps, which is based on PlaceBase; a company that Apple purchased years ago to integrate in Apple Maps.

http://www.policymap.com/demo.html

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Yes!  Thanks for that link.  I wish the old PlaceBase and PushPin (API) sites were still up... It was amazing to see the things you could do with map overlays...

 

...Coming Soon -- to your Mac and iDevices!

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post #224 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

How can you possibly say that an assertion that has been backed by Apple CEO Tim Cook ("At Apple, we strive to make world-class products that deliver the best experience possible to our customers. With the launch of our new Maps last week, we fell short on this commitment.") has no founding?

I never said any such thing.

"we fall short of making THE BEST EXPERIENCE POSSIBLE" is one thing. Everyone here is pretending that he said "our app is no good and we should never have released it" - which is an entirely different statement.

He said that it wasn't the best experience possible. Big deal. Nothing in computers is the best experience possible as long as someone can see a way to improve it. That's not an admission of failure.
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post #225 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

With Apple, since the Apple ][ it has always been the "software" that sets Apple "hardware" apart from the others.

In earlier machines or peripherals *  much of the "software" was in the ROMS, PROMS and EPROMS.  This has evolved to where most of the "software" is in the OS and apps.  

* the Integrated Woz Machine on the Apple Disk ][ and the Mac


As "services" become more-integrated into the OS, they and their supporting "software", essentially, become part of the "hardware".

"It just works" would not be possible without the software to make it happen!
Problem is it doesn't always "just work". Maps is case in point. iTunes Match and iCloud don't always "just work".

 

Without the software, it wouldn't work at all!  Get real -- Apple has never been a "Hardware only" company -- I have 34 years experience using, buying, reselling, co-developing and programming their products.   The Apple ][ had a built-in (ROM) Assembler/Debugger, Integer BASIC, Hi and Lo-res graphics, TV Typewriter...  All "software" that enabled the "hardware" to do something.  Even the maimframe and mini computers of that day could not match the Apple ][ built-in software.

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post #226 of 444
I just tried the turn by turn navigation on my iphone 4s running IOS 6 on a drive down to San Diego, and I thought it had a much better interface than my Garmin. It definitely shows a lot of potential to be the best GPS mapping app.
post #227 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 

Apple could have explained the problem with something like:  

 

"We wanted to bring the best and most up-to-date mapping services to our iOS customers.  Unfortunately, we were unable to negotiate an agreement with Google to provide those services... so we decided to built a new mapping service from the ground up.  We are late to the game, but we will work to provide the best solution to our customers!"

 

 

This is a statement of fact -- not a blame game or pissing contest.  However, the observer can "read between the lines", do a little research, surmise what happened, and assign any blame as they see fit.

 

Had they done it this way, likely, half of the bloggers/journalists would have taken Apple's side and made Tim's apology unnecessary.

 

 

Finally, All this bad publicity and Tim's apology -- is still publicity.

 

Apple has accepted the challenge in the public forum -- now, all they need do is "perform" and fix the problems.   Once they do that, they will have a net gain from the publicity...  one step back, then a leap forward for Apple.

 

 

Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like.  The apology was unnecessary, and this all would have settled down in a few weeks just like any other "Applegate" issue has.  iOS6 has only been officially released for a week or so, so it is natural to have all eyes on it.  As people calm down and the emotion subsides I like to think that rational thought would have returned.

 

Apple did what had to be done.  It wasn't painless, but now they can look towards the future and can do it their way for their customers.  They are no longer at the mercy of Google for their mapping.  This is an admirable position to be in, not being dependent on a competitor.  Does anyone doubt that Apple will address any outstanding issues in a very short time-frame?  There are alternatives out there, but Apple looked weak in pointing them out publicly.

 

I disagree with your first paragraph!  If Google were not willing to provide the services -- how does being "the richest company in the world" solve the problem.  I can't buy if you won't sell!   Or, I won't sell my farm to buy your plow.   

 

I believe that Tim handled the situation exactly right.  

 

They could not negotiate an agreement!  We can argue the reasons... but we do not know!

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post #228 of 444
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
She is already a sassy bitch you don't need to encourage her.

 

*ding ding* "I heard that." *ding ding*

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post #229 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Me:  "Siri: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

Siri:  "Turn left on..."

 

You were expecting "Siri:  Practice, practice, practice"?

 

I think I'd actually prefer a 1 in 10 chance that she appends "and you should probably learn an instrument" to the instructions for that. lol.gif

 

Throw in little jokes like that every so often in addition to the proper info.

 

Me:  "Siri: Crosstown busses run all night?"

Siri:  "Doo-Dah, Doo-Dah!"

 

Me:  "Siri: Call me an ambulance!"

Siri:  "Right... you're an ambulance"


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/29/12 at 12:58pm
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post #230 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

But no, they had to get up on the stage and proclaim it was the most powerful and most elegant mapping solution the world has ever known.

 

Wrong.

 

As with all things Apple the "proclamation" was that it was the "most powerful and most elegant mapping solution" Apple products had ever known.

 

Fastest IPHONE yet, thinnest iPhone yet, etc.

 

Apple always make announcements comparing THEIR OWN products, new against old.

 

People ALWAYS misrepresent that as saying better than ANY OTHER product.

 

Why?

 

Because it's an easy way to smear Apple.

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post #231 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Another brilliant piece, calling for Forstall's head over maps, basically the guy wh architected iOS and is most responsible for Apple's current success after Jobs. 


http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a-scott-forstall-problem/

These arm-chair analysts, who have never done anything worthwhile in their lives, are disgusting.  Yeah, Forstall should be 'fired'. Who will take his place? The writer? What a bunch of vicious, "kick them when they're down" baboons. What an utter lack of perspective. The guy is in charge of the most successful mobile OS on the planet. Give him a shred of credit, you fuckwits. He's the closest thing to a Jobs that Apple has, or will ever have. Maybe SJ should have quit after any one of the number of "blunders" under his watch too?
I agree that calling for Forstall's head is premature at this time. But I disagree that he's the closest we have to Steve. Though I don't doubt HE thinks he's a mini-Steve. But let's face it both maps and Siri are a bit of an embarrassment. Half the time Siri doesn't work for me. And most people I know who have an iPhone spent more time trying to stump Siri and once that novelty wore off they hardly use it anymore. And the biggest 'wow' we got with Siri in iOS 6 is providing sports scores? Really? That's the best Forstall and team can do?

Personally I think the hardware teams don't get enough credit. What they did with the A6 chip and getting all that amazing technology in a thinner and lighter device blows away anything the iOS team did with iOS 6 IMO.
post #232 of 444
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
Me:  "Siri: Crosstown busses run all night?"

Siri:  "Doo Dah, Doo, Dah!"

 

Me:  "Siri: Call me an ambulance!"

Siri:  "Right... you're an ambulance"

 

You: "Siri, this is serious!"

Siri: "I know. And don't call me Siri."

 

Or when you're getting directions:

 

"In 100 feet, go west. Life is peaceful there."

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #233 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think I'd actually prefer a 1 in 10 chance that she appends "and you should probably learn an instrument" to the instructions for that. lol.gif

 

Throw in little jokes like that every so often in addition to the proper info.

She is already a sassy bitch you don't need to encourage her.

 

Ahh... you need to train her...

 

Me: "Siri: Who am I?"

Siri: "You're Dick, But since we're friends, I get to call you 'Oh Omnipotent one'."

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #234 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Without the software, it wouldn't work at all!  Get real -- Apple has never been a "Hardware only" company -- I have 34 years experience using, buying, reselling, co-developing and programming their products.   The Apple ][ had a built-in (ROM) Assembler/Debugger, Integer BASIC, Hi and Lo-res graphics, TV Typewriter...  All "software" that enabled the "hardware" to do something.  Even the maimframe and mini computers of that day could not match the Apple ][ built-in software.
I never suggested they were ONLY a hardware company. I just believe if you had to weight the two I'd weight it more towards hardware right now. For me the biggest improvements with the new iPad and iPhone 5 are on the hardware side, not iOS. And same thing with the new Macabook Pro. These are amazing hardware engineering feats.
post #235 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Take a course in critical thinking. Nothing in Cook's letter says that they made a mistake, nor does it say that it's not as good as Google's app.
You might want to start by reading the letter for comprehension instead of simply pretending that it says what you want it to say.
You don't have to worry about me, though thank you for your concern.

But do you really think parsing the explicit meaning of Tom Cook's lame apology is going to make a hill-of-beans difference to all the iPhone users who buy their phones at Walmart?

No matter what you infer from Tim Cook's apology letter, and it is far from definitive, the media, and Apple's competitors and detractors, have all spun it the worst possible way.

While I appreciate your position, and would love to believe there is no other way to interpret his words, it is simply not the case. You would therefore be doing all of us who support Apple a great service by illustrating exactly how you have parsed the letter line-by-line, so that we may all benifit by your insight in our efforts to make our collective case.

Otherwise, I see the Maps arguments as finished, point Google, until Google or Apple introduce some new aspect to the discussion in a month or two for further consideration.
post #236 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Without the software, it wouldn't work at all!  Get real -- Apple has never been a "Hardware only" company -- I have 34 years experience using, buying, reselling, co-developing and programming their products.   The Apple ][ had a built-in (ROM) Assembler/Debugger, Integer BASIC, Hi and Lo-res graphics, TV Typewriter...  All "software" that enabled the "hardware" to do something.  Even the maimframe and mini computers of that day could not match the Apple ][ built-in software.
I never suggested they were ONLY a hardware company. I just believe if you had to weight the two I'd weight it more towards hardware right now. For me the biggest improvements with the new iPad and iPhone 5 are on the hardware side, not iOS. And same thing with the new Macabook Pro. These are amazing hardware engineering feats.

 

Now, you are just being stubborn.  How do you know what changes were made to iOS... say to support the 3 new, more-powerful CPU cores, a larger screen, and more RAM increased performance -- all without reducing battery life.  There are things in iOS 6 that we have yet to see.  There are people playing 2K and 4K videos on an iPad -- that requires very powerful hardware and software support.  

 

Before you downgrade the iOS changes, I suggest you become an iOS developer and see just what is contained, and what has changed in iOS.

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #237 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

How about Apple buying Nokia? Problem solved.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

If Apple decides it really has mapping problems, they should just BUY Nokia which also owns Navtaq. Nokia's total net-worth is only $10 billion and the Navteq portion of that is estimated to be $1 billion.

I'm sure Apple wants to run the failing phone maker (good tech chops/formerly good company/missed the smart phone wave) most committed to Win 8 Phones...  ...and meanwhile, Finland would declare war on California if AAPL tried to dismantle the company for its IP.......

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

You might as well be asking, why does Google try to destroy the competition in every market they enter?

 

Because, for Google to be successful, they have to eliminate alternatives to add based content and services, or such is their belief and overall business strategy for years now.

 

Because Google wants to control access to all information, so everyone has to go through them, so they know everything about everyone.

 

Because Page is a psychopathic megalomaniac mentored by the utterly devoid of all morals Schmidt.

 

It doesn't even have to be rational when the people running the company have a Pinky and the Brain mentality.

You realize many have made most of these same (and analogous) charges about many companies, most notably (in chronological order), Microsoft and Apple. Well, actually since you're a rabies victim (foaming at the mouth), you may well not, and the chronology would just be too tedious, and for the reasonable and well-versed, superfluous. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post

The New York Times?!  Nobody reads that rag anymore.

The bad news:  Unfortunately many do.

The good: Last I heard they were still bleeding money year after year....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Exactly how far behind is Windows behind Mac OS X?

Well, we're about to find out.....

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #238 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

He said that it wasn't the best experience possible. Big deal. Nothing in computers is the best experience possible as long as someone can see a way to improve it. That's not an admission of failure.
You overlook the context of the letter -- it is in response to the media reporting that Apple failed. I would say he lied then, because Maps works great for me. I don't personally know anybody who has found issue with it, something you yourself have attested to in this forum. In fact this is one of the best Map Apps I have ever used. But the way you interpret his statement, he is neither lying, as all products can be always improved, nor appologizing, since no product is ever the best. So I say again: Cook publishing this tripe actually fuels Apple's competitors, and denigrates his employees, my opinion and many of those I have read in this forum, including yours. There is nothing wrong with Maps, but now that Apple has said there is, how can anyone argue against it? "Oh, Tim didn't really mean that, he was just trying to placate his idiot customers." Yeah that's so much better.

So lets parse out the rest then.

He then said: "While we're improving Maps, you can try alternatives by downloading map apps from the App Store like Bing, MapQuest and Waze, or use Google or Nokia maps by going to their websites and creating an icon on your home screen to their web app." For all practical purposes he said to the general public and his competitors, try any of these apps which will work better than ours. It is THE premise of his opening paragraph -- "we fell short on this commitment [to deliver the best experience possible]". In this context, to suggest alternatives is to suggest they offer a better experience than Apple's own, which is most certainly not the case.

He ended the whole sorted affair by saying: "we will keep working non-stop until Maps lives up to the same incredibly high standard." By NAMING apps that may provide a better experience, he's re-affirming that Apple's world class app, which is substantially better than those others apps in many respects, is seemingly not as good as those apps and landing the final insult that the list of apps which users may find more useful includes maps.google.com which is one of the worst web app implementations I've ever seen.
post #239 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Ahh... you need to train her... him

That's the advice my wife gives her friends about husbands.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #240 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Take a course in critical thinking. Nothing in Cook's letter says that they made a mistake, nor does it say that it's not as good as Google's app.
You might want to start by reading the letter for comprehension instead of simply pretending that it says what you want it to say.
You don't have to worry about me, though thank you for your concern.

But do you really think parsing the explicit meaning of Tom Cook's lame apology is going to make a hill-of-beans difference to all the iPhone users who buy their phones at Walmart?

No matter what you infer from Tim Cook's apology letter, and it is far from definitive, the media, and Apple's competitors and detractors, have all spun it the worst possible way.

While I appreciate your position, and would love to believe there is no other way to interpret his words, it is simply not the case. You would therefore be doing all of us who support Apple a great service by illustrating exactly how you have parsed the letter line-by-line, so that we may all benifit by your insight in our efforts to make our collective case.

Otherwise, I see the Maps arguments as finished, point Google, until Google or Apple introduce some new aspect to the discussion in a month or two for further consideration.

 

I have lots of experience hearing/reading public apologies... And made a few myself as CEO of my company.   IMO, @jragosta is correct in his assessment of Tim's letter -- and you are wrong!

 

Further, I have seen nothing in any of your posts that indicate you are one of  "us who support Apple" -- other than your claims... which appear hollow when considered with the thrust of your posts.

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
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