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NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple - Page 8

post #281 of 444

Off topic:

 

Man I have been working on my new MBP going on two days and still not done. I can tell you one thing that Migration Assistant does not understand how to work with CS5.5 applications. About 80% fail rate. I ended up having to delete everything and run the clean up utility then start from scratch to reinstall all the applications from my account at Adobe. Of course it gave me the opportunity to switch to CS6 which I already paid for but had not used. Migration assistant inexplicably ignored Maya altogether. To reinstall I needed to get a dmg onto a flash drive which took half the day. I only upgrade every few of years but it is not exactly a walk in the park.

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post #282 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 

I agree!

 

 

That is a very difficult idea to present... We want you to keep using Maps, but here are some specific alternatives that may help you the get over the bumps.

 

Odd that he didn't mention Navigon, TomTom  or even Street Viewer... but that quickly becomes more information (alternatives) than Apple wants to provide.

 

It may have been wordsmithed a bit too much.  I think I would have liked a more direct approach -- Something like:

 

"We hope that you will continue to use Maps and help us to improve it!  For those times when you need added capability, there are alternatives on our app store...."

 

It's a toughy!

 

Tim feinted, he deked, he sold the dummy. The furious ones now have an apology and a series of recommended replacements to the completely unserviceable Maps application, which should act as baby soothers for the terminally whiners. And Apple has six months or so to work up Version 1.1, with all the major problems fitted with continuing solutions and notable differentiations from the major Google product.

 

Cheers

post #283 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

So far using Maps in my area seems to be ok when I looked for things. It pinned them correctly. But we'll see I suppose the more I use to see how it performs. It can only go up from here with future updates. 

i use it in phoenix and the surrounding area, so far, no problems!

post #284 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

SOT...

 

Well, this is the last day of FQ2012 and FY2012... And the iPhone 5 has been on sale for 9 days...

 

Any SWAG estimates for number sold?

 

I take 11.5 Million!

9.5M

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post #285 of 444
iOS 6 Maps Navigation go me to climbing gym in warehouse district 9 miles from my house today, and I didn't have to take my eyes off the road. This is the easist fix for Apple, bring back Google maps and leave the new map, 2 mapping apps isn't overkill, they each have they're own strengths
post #286 of 444
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
For instance, why didn't they change their Maps icon to show their new spaceship location instead of 1 Infinite Loop?

 

Doesn't exist yet. 


If there's one thing we can take away from the first few weeks of Apple Maps, it's that it refuses to show a location that doesn't exist. lol.gif


Originally Posted by rain View Post
Your so delusional that you almost sound like Tallest.

 

My only delusion in recent memory was not thinking MUCH EARLIER to check if you had multiple accounts here.

 

Funny how the world works when you have to FOLLOW OUR RULES, isn't it? Can't 

Now crawl back into your damp, mossy hole and hope for a sou'wester. 

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post #287 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

@jragosta: to summarize, IMHO, Cook's letter was not well-crafted. (even the provided instructions seem terse and out of place or rushed).

And what are your qualifications to make anyone care about your opinion?

I have extensive CEO experience. Tim Cook doesn't have as many years as me, but a significantly larger company. He also has access to some of the best advisors in the business.

So why is your opinion more valid than his or my statements?
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post #288 of 444

So far, for me anyway, Apple's Maps have worked as well as Google's. I have found that while Google's maps are good, they haven't always been perfect. While the flyover feature is pretty impressive, I honestly don't find it overly useful. Street view on the other hand has been useful.

 

I am prepared to give Apple some time to get the kinks worked out. Apple gets lots of press these days and that's a double-edged sword for them. It's great free publicity when things go well and plenty of negative publicity when things aren't perfect. I for one know that Apple isn't perfect, and I don't expect them to be.

 
post #289 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by phasornc View Post

iOS 6 Maps Navigation go me to climbing gym in warehouse district 9 miles from my house today, and I didn't have to take my eyes off the road. This is the easist fix for Apple, bring back Google maps and leave the new map, 2 mapping apps isn't overkill, they each have they're own strengths

 

I most certainly don't need Google Maps.  Let the door hit their butts on the way out. LOL

 

Apple Maps rock.  Vector based, Turn-by-turn, Fly-Over, Siri, Point of interest info/pictures/yelp.

 

Looking forward to third party layers for Subway, Bus, Train, Bike, Walk, boat, submarine, demographics, crime, financial etc...

post #290 of 444

I think the audaciousness of what Apple has done is going under-recognized. They have launched a brand new maps service which replaces an extremely mature service to their entire customer base (hundreds of millions of installed units in hundreds of countries) at a stroke. To keep the switch hidden as long as possible from Google there was no public beta played out over months or years to gather feedback. The service was scaled at launch to handle the entire request volume already being sent to Google. It's a hugely complex undertaking requiring integration with dozens or perhaps hundreds of data providers worldwide. I can't think of many companies which could have pulled off such a feat. I live in Tokyo and am inconvenienced by some of the teething problems, but I already benefit from some of the new features such as map labels which rotate to my direction of travel. The gap is tuning and tweaks, not technical fundamentals.

 

To that side by side map comparison in the article - granted that Apple's maps don't have buildings at any zoom level for this location, but the two shots are at different zoom levels which affects the level of detail shown. C'mon AI, reports of same view comparisons really need to be the exact same view.

 

Also the interesting point about recommending customers try other maps in the App Store underscores how good Apple's free maps are already. Try a few and you quickly realize it's a clever message. AT&T Navigator is only available to subscribers. MapQuest had awful blurry bitmapped map images for Tokyo. Telenav showed an empty screen for Tokyo. Bing installed a Bing app home screen with a search box but no obvious entry to a map of my current location. I wasn't prepared to pay $40 or so to trial a paid service. Apple Maps are free, globally available, and high resolution. Seems like the only real free alternative is Google maps, and they are close to surpassing them.

post #291 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I wholeheartedly disagree with that. The iPhone 4 required a press release because it's a HW product and it needed a lot of explaining and comparison. That is also where they actually make money. Maps isn't just one app it's not even the app itself that is lacking.
All this is most comparable to the email Apple sent out to customers about the MobileMe debacle (now that was a debacle!). That was a service just as Apple Maps is a service.
Here is a list of Oops! from Apple. I had forgotten about most of these...

 

 

I don't think a press event was needed. I, however, don't think Jobs would have handled the issue the same as Tim Cook. He may have called Maps a beta, like when Siri was introduced. Had that been done, there wouldn't be much to complain about. After all a beta is a beta. 

 

If the press was still up in arms, this situation should have been treated more akin to how Jobs handled Apple spurning Flash. He wrote a letter outlining Apple's position. He never apologized. He also didn't apologize when Apple quickly dropped the price of iPhones and early adopters got mad, or over the antenna gate controversy. 

post #292 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Doesn't exist yet. 

If there's one thing we can take away from the first few weeks of Apple Maps, it's that it refuses to show a location that doesn't exist. lol.gif

Didn't know what to expect from my post but I was hoping for a nice retort. You win the thread.

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post #293 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueDogRandy View Post

You are mistaken on just about every comment you made. Sure Apple is not above criticism, but to suggest that hat they deserve "substantial" criticism starts to wreak of typical iHater rhetoric. Just how many of the 5 million ip[hones last week were scratched? forbes reported a few dozen... It was a small isolated instance that I am sure was addressed and rectified promptly. QC at Apple is not lacking, they are the top of consumer satisfaction surveys and will continue to hold that position for a long time to come. Cook and Clan? what the hell is that supposed to mean? You sound like a troll, and an iHater, or maybe just a typical droid dork by the tone of your post. 

Apple are doomed to mediocrity huh? Is that what their sales numbers and satisfaction surveys say? Guess again, iThink you need to step back and take a deep breathe before you post such ridiculous ill-informed comments again.

 

By the way, Apple is shining like never before and it keeps getting brighter. We all wish Steve Jobs was still here to enjoy the wonderful devices and products Apple are introducing, If he were here I am sure he would be smiling knowing that Apple are diminishing  goofles presence on their awesome iDevices.

To say that that the scratches are isolated to a few dozen, and therefore should be discounted, flies in the face of Shiller's comments that aluminum is supposed to scratch and that is normal. Please, get a clue. In the law, we call that an admission against interest. You clearly suffer from the belief that factless arguments have persuasive value -- I suppose you and your like-"minded" cohorts believe that, but those of us with functioning neurons certainly don't buy it. 

 

Many a company or product has gone under or lost prior significance when past success is paraded instead of facing the reality of current failure. Name some? HP, Dec, RIM, Nokia, GM, American Motors, Chrysler, Univac, Burroughs, Datacraft, WordPerfect, Novell, Palm, Borland, Xerox, Kodak, Polaroid, Sybase, Sun, Motorola, Fiat, Msft?, IBM, Borders, Computerland, Best Buy?, Powerbuilder, Flash, Compaq, Dell, Sony Ericcson, Sears, JC Penney, Saab, Sony Walkman, Sega, Commodore, ? I'm sure I could think of many more with a little more time. 

 

Apple's prior successes is due to real innovation, and Job's motto (or it is Apple's) that "the good is enemy of the best". Apple has been producing the "best" for the last 10 years. Apologists like you are Apple's worst enemies. 

post #294 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2an View Post

I think the audaciousness of what Apple has done is going under-recognized. They have launched a brand new maps service which replaces an extremely mature service to their entire customer base (hundreds of millions of installed units in hundreds of countries) at a stroke. To keep the switch hidden as long as possible from Google there was no public beta played out over months or years to gather feedback. The service was scaled at launch to handle the entire request volume already being sent to Google. It's a hugely complex undertaking requiring integration with dozens or perhaps hundreds of data providers worldwide. I can't think of many companies which could have pulled off such a feat. I live in Tokyo and am inconvenienced by some of the teething problems, but I already benefit from some of the new features such as map labels which rotate to my direction of travel. The gap is tuning and tweaks, not technical fundamentals.

 

To that side by side map comparison in the article - granted that Apple's maps don't have buildings at any zoom level for this location, but the two shots are at different zoom levels which affects the level of detail shown. C'mon AI, reports of same view comparisons really need to be the exact same view.

 

Also the interesting point about recommending customers try other maps in the App Store underscores how good Apple's free maps are already. Try a few and you quickly realize it's a clever message. AT&T Navigator is only available to subscribers. MapQuest had awful blurry bitmapped map images for Tokyo. Telenav showed an empty screen for Tokyo. Bing installed a Bing app home screen with a search box but no obvious entry to a map of my current location. I wasn't prepared to pay $40 or so to trial a paid service. Apple Maps are free, globally available, and high resolution. Seems like the only real free alternative is Google maps, and they are close to surpassing them.

 

Quote:
The service was scaled at launch to handle the entire request volume already being sent to Google. It's a hugely complex undertaking requiring integration with dozens or perhaps hundreds of data providers worldwide. I can't think of many companies which could have pulled off such a feat.

 

 

Duh... Slaps forehead... You hit on something that everyone missed -- at least I have not heard any complaints of poor performance of Apple maps.  Just the opposite, many comments of improved performance over Google maps.  

 

Couple that with all the extraordinary Apple map requests to:

  • just checkout the new app
  • see what all the fuss is about
  • visit places with errors touted by the press
  • refine and re-search for requests that returned invalid results
  • look for more errors vis a vis Google maps
  • play with 3D
  • play with TBT

 

We've had the iOS 6 beta on 4 iPads and 3 iPhones (2 iP4 and 1 iP4S) for months,  We got another iP4S on the 21st and 2 iP5s on the 26th and 28th.  In all this time, we've been experimenting with the Apple maps app, and it performed well -- as expected...  We  do most of our map requests on iPads over WiFi -- bigger maps, more data returned, more zooming, more 3D... more bandwidth.

 

Then comes the 1st week of iPhone 5 and iOS 6 availability and 1/2 Billion new map requests to Apple Servers -- and there was no degradation in performance.

 

This is a much larger ramp up than the server request volume that brought MobleMe, then Siri performance to its knees.

 

 

This is the great, untold success story of Apple maps... Apple can handle the requests volume...  Service competitors, take note!


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/29/12 at 8:02pm
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post #295 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

IMHO it was a mistake for Cook to mention competitors by name in his letter and to provide user instructions, rather than referring customers to a helpful website. For instance, many iPhone users may have no idea what is meant when he suggests making web app icons. In the opening paragraph he also states the company is doing everything it can to make Maps "better" instead of the best. It's easy to make something better, especially if you're conceding it's not so great to begin with. Just make it a tiny bit better. Now, making something the best is a goal worthy of talking about. Making something only "better" suggests a lack of inspiration and commitment. I know, I know, in the last paragraph he writes about making Maps the best in the world, but the opening paragraph really sets the tone.

The mention of other competitors is minor. What is not minor is the inference that it will be quite a while before Apple corrects the problems with its own solution, and offers services at least comparable to its competitors. That, alone, is telling. It seems honest, by that inference.

post #296 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2an View Post

I think the audaciousness of what Apple has done is going under-recognized. They have launched a brand new maps service which replaces an extremely mature service to their entire customer base (hundreds of millions of installed units in hundreds of countries) at a stroke. To keep the switch hidden as long as possible from Google there was no public beta played out over months or years to gather feedback. The service was scaled at launch to handle the entire request volume already being sent to Google. It's a hugely complex undertaking requiring integration with dozens or perhaps hundreds of data providers worldwide. I can't think of many companies which could have pulled off such a feat. I live in Tokyo and am inconvenienced by some of the teething problems, but I already benefit from some of the new features such as map labels which rotate to my direction of travel. The gap is tuning and tweaks, not technical fundamentals.

Thanks for bringing up that excellent point. Very few (if any) other companies could have pulled that off - and it was a massive win for Apple overall (at least after the noise settles).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


I don't think a press event was needed. I, however, don't think Jobs would have handled the issue the same as Tim Cook. He may have called Maps a beta, like when Siri was introduced. Had that been done, there wouldn't be much to complain about. After all a beta is a beta. 

If the press was still up in arms, this situation should have been treated more akin to how Jobs handled Apple spurning Flash. He wrote a letter outlining Apple's position. He never apologized. He also didn't apologize when Apple quickly dropped the price of iPhones and early adopters got mad, or over the antenna gate controversy. 

Cook is not Jobs. Maybe you've forgotten how often Jobs was criticized for his attitude. Cook accomplished the same thing, but without the attitude.

And they couldn't have called it a beta. If they had done so, then the criticisms for removing Google Maps would have been justified. Furthermore, by most reports (once you get past the hysteria), it's not a beta. It's a very powerful mapping solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Doesn't exist yet. 


If there's one thing we can take away from the first few weeks of Apple Maps, it's that it refuses to show a location that doesn't exist. lol.gif

Well played.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

The mention of other competitors is minor. What is not minor is the inference that it will be quite a while before Apple corrects the problems with its own solution, and offers services at least comparable to its competitors. That, alone, is telling. It seems honest, by that inference.

I don't think that's the way most people will take it. They'll use Maps knowing that there's a backup if there's ever a problem. I really doubt if many people will ignore that big 'Maps' icon on their home screen.

Everyone seems to be missing the point of Cook's letter. It was not targeted at Apple's mass audience. 99% of those people will never see it. It was targeted at the tiny percentage of geeks and media who is trying to make an issue out of it. Basically, he took the wind out of their sails - but without harming their reputation since only a tiny number of people will ever see the letter.
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post #297 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

To say that that the scratches are isolated to a few dozen, and therefore should be discounted, flies in the face of Shiller's comments that aluminum is supposed to scratch and that is normal. Please, get a clue. In the law, we call that an admission against interest. You clearly suffer from the belief that factless arguments have persuasive value -- I suppose you and your like-"minded" cohorts believe that, but those of us with functioning neurons certainly don't buy it. 

 

Many a company or product has gone under or lost prior significance when past success is paraded instead of facing the reality of current failure. Name some? HP, Dec, RIM, Nokia, GM, American Motors, Chrysler, Univac, Burroughs, Datacraft, WordPerfect, Novell, Palm, Borland, Xerox, Kodak, Polaroid, Sybase, Sun, Motorola, Fiat, Msft?, IBM, Borders, Computerland, Best Buy?, Powerbuilder, Flash, Compaq, Dell, Sony Ericcson, Sears, JC Penney, Saab, Sony Walkman, Sega, Commodore, ? I'm sure I could think of many more with a little more time. 

 

Apple's prior successes is due to real innovation, and Job's motto (or it is Apple's) that "the good is enemy of the best". Apple has been producing the "best" for the last 10 years. Apologists like you are Apple's worst enemies. 

 

No, it doesn't fly in the face of anything. Schiller's comments were in response to the hyperventilating hysteria that YES METAL CAN SCRATCH! There's no indication this is any type of flaw- I haven't seen a single scratch on a single iPhone 5 display model I've inspected, either in BB, Walmarts, of Apple Stores, which are handled by THOUSANDS of people. He's responding to the sensational, click-whore videos like the iFix it one, where she makes her 2 year old smash keys as hard as she can on the back of the iPhone, then rub them all over, again, and again, and again- and when it manages to show some visible scratching, that exposes the FLAW in the device. It's unbelievable. Nothing about your post makes a lick of sense, least of which is that list of companies. Why did you waste your time? You clearly don't own an iPhone 5 nor have experience with it scratching, yet you're so confident that the internet noise machine is somehow indicative of reality, where 5+ million phones have already been sold. On the internet, 50 people with blogs can make enough noise to make it seem like a 'majority', and people like you with no perspective fall for it. 

 

As for your definition of "innovation", read this Gizmodo review, and although I'm not a fan of of the site, this is honest impressions from someone who has owned and used the phone for a week. He's insanely impressed with the build quality of the phone, as are millions of others, and I put more stock in that than your clear, frothing at the mouth Apple-hating post which contains no facts but alot of vitriol. 

 

http://gizmodo.com/5946599/a-week-with-the-iphone-5

post #298 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2an View Post

I think the audaciousness of what Apple has done is going under-recognized. They have launched a brand new maps service which replaces an extremely mature service to their entire customer base (hundreds of millions of installed units in hundreds of countries) at a stroke. To keep the switch hidden as long as possible from Google there was no public beta played out over months or years to gather feedback. The service was scaled at launch to handle the entire request volume already being sent to Google. It's a hugely complex undertaking requiring integration with dozens or perhaps hundreds of data providers worldwide. I can't think of many companies which could have pulled off such a feat. I live in Tokyo and am inconvenienced by some of the teething problems, but I already benefit from some of the new features such as map labels which rotate to my direction of travel. The gap is tuning and tweaks, not technical fundamentals.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Duh... Slaps forehead... You hit on something that everyone missed -- at least I have not heard any complaints of poor performance of Apple maps.  Just the opposite, many comments of improved performance over Google maps.  

 

Couple that with all the extraordinary Apple map requests to:

  • just checkout the new app
  • see what all the fuss is about
  • visit places with errors touted by the press
  • refine and re-search for requests that returned invalid results
  • look for more errors vis a vis Google maps
  • play with 3D
  • play with TBT

 

We've had the iOS 6 beta on 4 iPads and 3 iPhones (2 iP4 and 1 iP4S) for months,  We got another iP4S on the 21st and 2 iP5s on the 26th and 28th.  In all this time, we've been experimenting with the Apple maps app, and it performed well -- as expected...  We  do most of our map requests on iPads over WiFi -- bigger maps, more data returned, more zooming, more 3D... more bandwidth.

 

Then comes the 1st week of iPhone 5 and iOS 6 availability and 1/2 Billion new map requests to Apple Servers -- and there was no degradation in performance.

 

This is a much larger ramp up than the server request volume that brought MobleMe, then Siri performance to its knees.

 

 

This is the great, untold success story of Apple maps... Apple can handle the requests volume...  Service competitors, take note!

 

 
Given the iOS installed base, 1/2 bn requests is actually quite low.
 
 

I am reminded of a story that circulated around IBM headquarters in the late 1970s.  The story goes that IBM had commissioned a study to determine what would happen if a million requests were concurrently made to a maimframe database. 

 

The company doing the study looked around for a "real life" equivalent with which to model the situation.

 

The best analog they could find was:  "What is the likelihood that all the urinals in NYC flushed at the same time?"

 

Supposedly, the results returned to IBM were:  "Don't worry about it (the million hits) -- you'll be knee-deep in piss before that happens!"

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post #299 of 444
I am surprised at some of the great comments here. They are clear, concise and clearly show that the NYT, like many papers have become hit pieces.
Maybe its the editors and owners. 20 years ago, everything was written and they had time to review stuff. Now its all electronic, even the printed stuff and they have just lost control.

Then again, maybe they have just given up.

Good comments people. PS, just handled the new iPhone 5. Nice phone. I am using a 4 and will stick with it for a few more months. My plan needs to refresh and the 4 is a pretty good phone as it is.

OH one thought for all those people that want bigger screens. I use an appletv at the house and anytime I want big (32 inch in office and 50 inch in living room), its just a click away. Cool enough.

Just a thought.
post #300 of 444
Quote:

 Apple can handle the requests volume... 

If you think it's apple technology handling the volume, you have no clue.

post #301 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

No, it doesn't fly in the face of anything. Schiller's comments were in response to the hyperventilating hysteria that YES METAL CAN SCRATCH! There's no indication this is any type of flaw- I haven't seen a single scratch on a single iPhone 5 display model I've inspected, either in BB, Walmarts, of Apple Stores, which are handled by THOUSANDS of people. He's responding to the sensational, click-whore videos like the iFix it one, where she makes her 2 year old smash keys as hard as she can on the back of the iPhone, then rub them all over, again, and again, and again- and when it manages to show some visible scratching, that exposes the FLAW in the device. It's unbelievable. Nothing about your post makes a lick of sense, least of which is that list of companies. Why did you waste your time? You clearly don't own an iPhone 5 nor have experience with it scratching, yet you're so confident that the internet noise machine is somehow indicative of reality, where 5+ million phones have already been sold. On the internet, 50 people with blogs can make enough noise to make it seem like a 'majority', and people like you with no perspective fall for it. 

 

As for your definition of "innovation", read this Gizmodo review, and although I'm not a fan of of the site, this is honest impressions from someone who has owned and used the phone for a week. He's insanely impressed with the build quality of the phone, as are millions of others, and I put more stock in that than your clear, frothing at the mouth Apple-hating post which contains no facts but alot of vitriol. 

 

http://gizmodo.com/5946599/a-week-with-the-iphone-5

Schiller's response could not have been in response to hyperventilating hysteria because Schiller went too far in the admission if it were to be addressing only hysteria, or a few bad iPhone 5's or iPhone 5s that had been significantly mishandled by owners. I do expect aluminum to scratch and have other flaws when, say, hit with a hammer or the actions of 2 year olds you describe. But, Schiller's comments did not address that the iPhone 5 was not ruggedized and was not built to be abused. Schiller was too general in his comments. You're clueless if you think I or anyone else has to own or use an iPhone 5 to understand whether certain activities can and should cause damage. 

 

You're simply lying, and for that I have nothing but enmity. Let me quote what the original comments were:

 

Alex: "I love my Black & Slate iPhone 5, but I've been seeing some scuffs, scratches and marks throughout the band around the phone along with many others. What should we all do? Any plans to fix this?"

Phil Schiller: "Any aluminum product may scratch or chip with use, exposing its natural silver color. That is normal."

 

The above statements constitute the entirety of the exchange, and nowhere is abuse-by-child mentioned, nor is Alex hysterical or hyperventilating. 

 

Slurpy. YOU'RE A LIAR. 

post #302 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by davida View Post

Quote:

 Apple can handle the requests volume... 

If you think it's apple technology handling the volume, you have no clue.

 

Please enlighten me...

 

I never said whose technology is involved -- just that Apple, its infrastructure (including backend partners) can handle the requests volume,,,

 

Here's a little secret for you: iTunes and iCloud don't run on Apple servers.

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post #303 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

No, it doesn't fly in the face of anything. Schiller's comments were in response to the hyperventilating hysteria that YES METAL CAN SCRATCH! There's no indication this is any type of flaw- I haven't seen a single scratch on a single iPhone 5 display model I've inspected, either in BB, Walmarts, of Apple Stores, which are handled by THOUSANDS of people. He's responding to the sensational, click-whore videos like the iFix it one, where she makes her 2 year old smash keys as hard as she can on the back of the iPhone, then rub them all over, again, and again, and again- and when it manages to show some visible scratching, that exposes the FLAW in the device. It's unbelievable. Nothing about your post makes a lick of sense, least of which is that list of companies. Why did you waste your time? You clearly don't own an iPhone 5 nor have experience with it scratching, yet you're so confident that the internet noise machine is somehow indicative of reality, where 5+ million phones have already been sold. On the internet, 50 people with blogs can make enough noise to make it seem like a 'majority', and people like you with no perspective fall for it. 

 

As for your definition of "innovation", read this Gizmodo review, and although I'm not a fan of of the site, this is honest impressions from someone who has owned and used the phone for a week. He's insanely impressed with the build quality of the phone, as are millions of others, and I put more stock in that than your clear, frothing at the mouth Apple-hating post which contains no facts but alot of vitriol. 

 

http://gizmodo.com/5946599/a-week-with-the-iphone-5

Schiller's response could not have been in response to hyperventilating hysteria because Schiller went too far in the admission if it were to be addressing only hysteria, or a few bad iPhone 5's or iPhone 5s that had been significantly mishandled by owners. I do expect aluminum to scratch and have other flaws when, say, hit with a hammer or the actions of 2 year olds you describe. But, Schiller's comments did not address that the iPhone 5 was not ruggedized and was not built to be abused. Schiller was too general in his comments. You're clueless if you think I or anyone else has to own or use an iPhone 5 to understand whether certain activities can and should cause damage. 

 

You're simply lying, and for that I have nothing but enmity. Let me quote what the original comments were:

 

Alex: "I love my Black & Slate iPhone 5, but I've been seeing some scuffs, scratches and marks throughout the band around the phone along with many others. What should we all do? Any plans to fix this?"

Phil Schiller: "Any aluminum product may scratch or chip with use, exposing its natural silver color. That is normal."

 

The above statements constitute the entirety of the exchange, and nowhere is abuse-by-child mentioned, nor is Alex hysterical or hyperventilating. 

 

Slurpy. YOU'RE A LIAR. 

 

And you @waldobushman are an apple-hating troll!

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post #304 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And what are your qualifications to make anyone care about your opinion?
I have extensive CEO experience. Tim Cook doesn't have as many years as me, but a significantly larger company. He also has access to some of the best advisors in the business.
So why is your opinion more valid than his or my statements?

I believe I've adequately justified my opinion. And I could care less if you are or ever have been a CEO.

post #305 of 444

Glad I'm chillin to RP and not engaging in this disaster of a discussion. You guys are stressing out for nothing. Get a life. 

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post #306 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Glad I'm chillin to RP and not engaging in this disaster of a discussion. You guys are stressing out for nothing. Get a life. 

That's funny. One guy on a forum telling another guy on the same forum to get a life.
post #307 of 444

I went to best buy today and bought a nice Griffin clear back iPhone 5 case and then I found the head phones I was looking for. I got the AKG active noise cancellation on ear model which I love after testing them for a few hours now. Thanks for the recommendations of other sets @jragosta but I decided on these and I 'm very happy with them.

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post #308 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Glad I'm chillin to RP and not engaging in this disaster of a discussion. You guys are stressing out for nothing. Get a life. 

That's funny. One guy on a forum telling another guy on the same forum to get a life.

You need to tune in to radio paradise then it might make sense

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post #309 of 444
All apple had to do was slap a "beta" tag in mdps like they did with siri.

Instead of complaints about something advertised as finished, they'd have received praise about something advertised as incomplete.
post #310 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

 
Given the iOS installed base, 1/2 bn requests is actually quite low.
 

 

 

You have no way of knowing that because we have no idea what the normal range was prior to iOS 6. Further,  it is only the installed base of iOS 6 that counts. Apple recently said the installed base of iOS 6 is about a hundred million. Divide that by the number of half billion Map searches and if my math is correct you have approximately 5 searches per user. To me that seems high. I mean honestly, you only use maps when you are lost. 

post #311 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

All apple had to do was slap a "beta" tag in mdps like they did with siri.

Instead of complaints about something advertised as finished, they'd have received praise about something advertised as incomplete.

You are correct!

However, in the long run, I think that bad publicity turned around into good publicity, will leave Apple ahead for the whole episode
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post #312 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


You have no way of knowing that because we have no idea what the normal range was prior to iOS 6. Further,  it is only the installed base of iOS 6 that counts. Apple recently said the installed base of iOS 6 is about a hundred million. Divide that by the number of half billion Map searches and if my math is correct you have approximately 5 searches per user. To me that seems high. I mean honestly, you only use maps when you are lost. 

I agree with your installed base assessment but I think his half-billion statement was based on the number of iOS-based iDevices sold, not the number of total requests performed thus far.

At any rate, what should be calculated is the threshold the Apple Maps servers and/or their 3rd-parties can handle at any one time. Like with Siri, there was nothing preventing the iPhone 4 from querying the servers but it made no sense to include those devices when they couldn't handle the load from just the iPhone 4S sold that first weekend.


PS: This might be why Apple has kept Apple Maps off Macs/PCs from the start. They want the servers to be functional for at least one platform before expanding. If so, that is better than it all collapsing but I still contend the best scenario would to come out feature rich and steamroll Google Maps from day one. It'll be an uphill battle now to convince certain people that Apple Maps will ever be viable. First impressions are important in most things.

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post #313 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Thanks for bringing up that excellent point. Very few (if any) other companies could have pulled that off - and it was a massive win for Apple overall (at least after the noise settles).
Cook is not Jobs. Maybe you've forgotten how often Jobs was criticized for his attitude. Cook accomplished the same thing, but without the attitude.
And they couldn't have called it a beta. If they had done so, then the criticisms for removing Google Maps would have been justified. Furthermore, by most reports (once you get past the hysteria), it's not a beta. It's a very powerful mapping solution.
Well played.
I don't think that's the way most people will take it. They'll use Maps knowing that there's a backup if there's ever a problem. I really doubt if many people will ignore that big 'Maps' icon on their home screen.
Everyone seems to be missing the point of Cook's letter. It was not targeted at Apple's mass audience. 99% of those people will never see it. It was targeted at the tiny percentage of geeks and media who is trying to make an issue out of it. Basically, he took the wind out of their sails - but without harming their reputation since only a tiny number of people will ever see the letter.

 

 

I don't expect Cook to be Jobs, but Cook's handling of the matter will always be judged in comparison to Jobs. Further, Jobs Flash letter and antennae gate press conference honestly would only be seen by the press and geeks too, but Jobs didn't back down and apologize. No apology was needed. I guarantee the only reason Apple apologized was David Pogue's New York Times article slamming the product the day before, but his article was weak and based on one error discovered while he tried the product. Cook should have laid out why Apple made the switch, accentuated the positive (features and many people happily using the app), acknowledged some shortcomings,  assure people the issues would be fixed quickly, explain it appreciated people using the Maps because it helped improve the product, and point the way to other products if users felt Maps wasn't usable for them. 

 

I also disagree about the beta. Calling it a beta sets expectations. Google has called some of its flagship products betas for years. Nobody is bulking there. Siri was the major selling point of the 4S, yet it is billed a beta. 

post #314 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I agree with your installed base assessment but I think his half-billion statement was based on the number of iOS-based iDevices sold, not the number of total requests performed thus far.
At any rate, what should be calculated is the threshold the Apple Maps servers and/or their 3rd-parties can handle at any one time. Like with Siri, there was nothing preventing the iPhone 4 from querying the servers but it made no sense to include those devices when they couldn't handle the load from just the iPhone 4S sold that first weekend.
PS: This might be why Apple has kept Apple Maps off Macs/PCs from the start. They want the servers to be functional for at least one platform before expanding. If so, that is better than it all collapsing but I still contend the best scenario would to come out feature rich and steamroll Google Maps from day one. It'll be an uphill battle now to convince certain people that Apple Maps will ever be viable. First impressions are important in most things.

 

 

 

I took it to mean Apple's servers were hit with a half billion map search requests, which could only come from iOS 6 equipped devices. If so, that averages out to about 5 search per device. Whether that is low or high I don't know.

 

I agree with the rest of what you said. 

post #315 of 444
Here's a question...

If the major mapping location and POI issues get resolved in weeks instead of months. If the street view and transportation issues are made non-issues by quickly-available 3rd-party offerings. If, by Christmas 2012, Apple maps is the superior mobile maps app.

The question... Have we been played like a fine Stradivarius?

A little off the wall... Maybe... Maybe no!
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post #316 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Hey New York Times,

WHO OWN'S THE LARGEST ONLINE MUSIC STORE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?

Bunch of f**king bozo's.

And the largest online App Store for both iOS and now OS X.
post #317 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickUK View Post

So, NYT...




...did you also check Google Maps? It's no better. The monument is in the middle of the street and the bus stop in the green.




But who cares? Everybody navigation to this location using Google Maps or Apple's Maps will find it.

There is a difference between having your map data put you in a sub division of houses, and another the takes you to the entrance of the Washington Monument park. That is why Google pinned it there, and because car mode was selected over traneit or walking. Last time I checked, they didn't have a drive through monument. Nice try though sparky.
Maps for ios6 is a joke. A pathetic attempt to copy Google. I do love all the buildings melting in LA, when in 3d flyover. I also love that my position was only half a mile off, compared to my S3 which shows my position with a few feet. Looking on Google maps I can watch myself moving through my house.
post #318 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'd say Apple will have the best mapping service in many regards within a year.

I absolutely agree! I also think Apple is just now learning how much people care about their maps. Which is good actually in the long run.
post #319 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Hey New York Times,

 

WHO OWN'S THE LARGEST ONLINE MUSIC STORE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?

 

Bunch of f**king bozo's.

What on earth has this got to do with this thread???  Is just me or is it every time Apple makes a stuff up (and in this case admits it) there are people out there that lack objectivity and fall back on stupid irrelevant statements like this.  Maybe hill60 you may not realize it but GM was once THE WORLDS LARGEST AUTO PRODUCER..... now they are 7th, ask yourself why and you'll probably realize that Apple are wise to admit their mistakes and move on quickly before the share prices fall and further.  

post #320 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And what are your qualifications to make anyone care about your opinion?
I have extensive CEO experience. Tim Cook doesn't have as many years as me, but a significantly larger company. He also has access to some of the best advisors in the business.
So why is your opinion more valid than his or my statements?

Is everyone CEO nowadays?
I don't think mentioning that has any value.
but by not being a CEO myself I invalidate my statement?
I could ask you to prove your a CEO ...

J.
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