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NYT: iOS Maps another internet services blunder for Apple - Page 9

post #321 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post


Is everyone CEO nowadays?
I don't think mentioning that has any value.
but by not being a CEO myself I invalidate my statement?
I could ask you to prove your a CEO ...
J.

He is. 

And I agree that doesn't automatically make him more qualified to comment on Apple management than someone who is not. Heck I've been CEO for two different companies myself, and still am at one of them.lol.gif

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post #322 of 444

A few years ago, Apple asked Adobe to make Flash fit for mobile.

Adobe said, "Yeah, when we get around to it."

Apple refused to support Flash in iOS. There was wailing in the forums.

When Adobe realised that the iPad was going to be bigger than Jupiter, they scrambled like mad to fix the problem. 

They failed.

 

A few months ago, Apple asked EPEAT to approve the new Retina Macbook Pro.

EPEAT said, "No. You can't dismantle it with tools you find at home."

Apple pulled all its products from EPEAT.  There was wailing in the forums.

A few days later, all Apple products are back in EPEAT, along with the Retina Macbook Pro, which STILL can't be dismantled with tools you find in the home.

 

A few months ago, Apple asked Google to allow for turn-by-turn navigation in the iPhone/iPad

Google said, "Ah, but then Android wouldn't have a competitive advantage over the iPhone, so the answer is no."

Guess what Apple did next? Yes, they pulled Google Maps from iOS (yeah, wailing in the forums), immediately cutting 100million users from Google's ad tracking schemes with no way back.

 

The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.

post #323 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".

So you need factual difference?
Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...
post #324 of 444

If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

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post #325 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

Why do you describe that as a problem? It is a desirable feature that has not, yet, been implemented.

It should be fairly simple for Apple to do – similar to bookmarking articles in Safari for off-line reading.

That said, Apple has no way to easily do a feature request for maps at this time.

So, you should drop a pin on an appropriate map and submit a feature request through the problem report mechanism.
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post #326 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A New York Times report on Friday says Apple's new iOS Maps app and corresponding service is another casualty of the company's lack of focus in offering reliable internet-based services, and reveals the original iPhone wasn't planned to have mapping software until mere weeks before its debut.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post

What on earth has this got to do with this thread???  Is just me or is it every time Apple makes a stuff up (and in this case admits it) there are people out there that lack objectivity and fall back on stupid irrelevant statements like this.  Maybe hill60 you may not realize it but GM was once THE WORLDS LARGEST AUTO PRODUCER..... now they are 7th, ask yourself why and you'll probably realize that Apple are wise to admit their mistakes and move on quickly before the share prices fall and further.  

 

The iTunes store is an Internet-based service, is it not?

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post #327 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".

So you need factual difference?
Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...

Could you please post images that illustrate the point you're trying to make?

Using two different iPads I tried both the Google maps app and the Apple maps app for Skiathos.

As expected the satellite views were similar although Google maps showed a few more hotels.

Then I tried the booking.com app. This is a specialty app for booking hotels in various locations.

As expected, this app showed a lot more hotels but had a similar satellite view to the other apps. I could not easily determine who supplied the map and satellite data.


Okay, here's the deal…. There are about 100 million iPad in use. The iPad is an excellent vehicle for hotel booking and vacation planning – especially with apps like the booking.com, that you suggested. The iPad 3, with retina display, is especially well-suited to this type of application.

With Apples MapKit API, it is easy for a developer to write an application where pins are dropped and points of interest information is displayed ala booking.com. Apple supplies the map and the developer supplies the longitude, latitude and POI information.

Before iOS 6, all the backend map data was supplied by Google. Now all of backend map data is supplied by Apple and various third-party services.

I suspect that the map app developers will adjust their applications, as necessary, to use the new map data. And, I expect that they will be quite vocal reporting any deficiencies or map problems.

Long story, short... I expect that, within a few weeks, most of these third-party specialty map apps will be using the new Apple maps app backend... And browbeating Apple to supply 3-D flyover data for the areas that they service.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/30/12 at 5:44am
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post #328 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Could you please post images that illustrate the point you're trying to make?
Using two different iPads I tried both the Google maps app and the Apple maps app for Skiathos.
As expected the satellite views were similar although Google maps showed a few more hotels.
Then I tried the booking.com app. This is a specialty app for booking hotels in various locations.
As expected, this app showed a lot more hotels but had a similar satellite view to the other apps. I could not easily determine who supplied the map and satellite data.
Okay, here's the deal…. There are about 100 million iPad in use. The iPad is an excellent vehicle for hotel booking and vacation planning – especially with apps like the booking.com, that you suggested. The iPad 3, with retina display, is especially well-suited to this type of application.
With Apples MapKit API, it is easy for a developer to write an application where pins are dropped and points of interest information is displayed ala booking.com. Apple supplies the map and the developer supplies the longitude, latitude and POI information.
Before iOS 6, all the backend map data was supplied by Google. Now all of backend map data is supplied by Apple and various third-party services.
I suspect that the map app developers will adjust their applications, as necessary, to use the new map data. And, I expect that they will be quite vocal reporting any deficiencies or map problems.
Long story, short... I expect that, within a few weeks, most of these third-party specialty map apps will be using the new Apple maps app backend... And browbeating Apple to supply 3-D flyover data for the areas that they service.

Hi, this exact thing is what bothers me. Developers are tied to default OS mapping application. At the moment i see ipad exactly like that.
Excellent vehicle with mediocre audio system. And the problem is if i keep speaking metaphorically, i can change the audio unit but crappy speakers are built in and irreplaceable. On ipad i can have third party app for maps, but any other app that uses maps will show only apple maps inside. It is not so problematic with browser for instance, whether to use safari or chrome is my own choice, but maps are part of many other applications which are now degraded partially. I will post the pictures in question when im on PC.
post #329 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post


So you need factual difference?
Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...

 

Wow!    ok class - raise your hand if you need to estimate the environment of a hotel on the island of skiathos... I cant even write that without busting out in laughter!!! seriously dude,

Now class, raise your hand if you need to estimate the environment near the portable toilet at the community college football field before purchasing tickets to the game... 

 

sorry dsk but i couldn't resist...

 

 

Don't you all think this has gone far enough?  You people do realize that there are maybe three dozen peeps arguing this issue on an obscure (no one but hard core enthusiast give a shit) forum. The reality is that 99.999999999% (conservative estimate) of the iphone users don't give a rats ass about the the maps and all your squabbling. A not yet implemented feature of a map app is not the end of the world, not even on the list bucket list. Get over it!! Apple will add features and improve the map with diligence. No map service is perfect-NONE.

Apple made the right choice by booting goofle off their phones. It's Apples (the most successful electronic company in the world, ever) decision, and for the few here arguing the demise of apple over this, I will bet that you will find Apple continuing to stomp the shit out of all competitors in the business as they have for the past decade. 

Have a nice day, Randy 8^)

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post #330 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueDogRandy View Post

 It's Apples (the most successful electronic company in the world, ever) decision, and for the few here arguing the demise of apple over this, I will bet that you will find Apple continuing to stomp the shit out of all competitors in the business as they have for the past decade. 

 

Past performance is no guarantee of future success. 

 

iOS is still by far and away the best mobile platform on the planet at the moment but it's mess-ups like this that's allowing others to chip away at Apple's lead. Nothing lasts forever but I hope that Apple steps up its game to ensure that its time at the top lasts for as long as possible.

post #331 of 444
Spare me all this drama. It is a freaking locaton system. If you don't like it then haul a** to another mapping system. Like,um ,Goggle.
post #332 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post

What on earth has this got to do with this thread???  Is just me or is it every time Apple makes a stuff up (and in this case admits it) there are people out there that lack objectivity and fall back on stupid irrelevant statements like this.  Maybe hill60 you may not realize it but GM was once THE WORLDS LARGEST AUTO PRODUCER..... now they are 7th, ask yourself why and you'll probably realize that Apple are wise to admit their mistakes and move on quickly before the share prices fall and further.  

Let's see if we can figure this out. NYT writes an article claiming that Apple is incompetent when it comes to the internet.

OP reminds everyone that Apple has the largest online music store on the planet (and the largest app store, too). Apple has been doing the internet well for ages.

And you can't figure out why it's relevant to the thread???? *shakes head*

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Is everyone CEO nowadays?
I don't think mentioning that has any value.
but by not being a CEO myself I invalidate my statement?
I could ask you to prove your a CEO ...
J.

It establishes that you have no experience relevant to the subject at hand.

Cook made a statement. I have considerably more years of CEO experience than Cook, but much less experience in real terms because of company size as well as his years of managing divisions, yet I agree with him. You, with no experience managing a company, disagree with Cook and his staff of experts. The point is that there's absolutely no reason to believe an anonymous person with no experience unless you can give some good supporting evidence - which you have not done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post

So you need factual difference?
Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...

First, that's booking.com. Why don't we stick to the Maps apps?

Second, please look up the difference between anecdotes and data. I could pick sites where Google fails, too. That would not be proof that one is better than the other. I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of how frequently each app fails. AFAIK, Consumer Reports is the only one who even tried and they found that there was no problem with Apple's Maps in their very limited test.

So as soon as you have valid statistical data as to how the two apps compare, feel free to provide it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Since both Apple and Google have money up the wazoo, I am predicting that in a year we will have much improved mapping from both. Competition is our friend.
 

Not according to the trolls. They insist that someone competing with Apple is a good thing - no matter how crappy the competitor is. But when Apple competes with someone else, it's pure evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davida View Post

If you think it's apple technology handling the volume, you have no clue.

How does that negate what OP said? Apple has managed to get the infrastructure in place to handle the switch so that they were able to handle many many millions of requests immediately after the iOS 6 upgrade went live. Whether Mac OS X handles the servers or not is irrelevant to that subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

I believe I've adequately justified my opinion. And I could care less if you are or ever have been a CEO.

No, you haven't. You've stated an opinion - nothing more, nothing less. And when you simply state an opinion without evidence, credentials matter. You don't have any credentials that make your opinion useful. I do. More importantly, Cook has shown his ability to run the largest public company on the planet (by market cap) successfully and has a great team of advisors. It takes more than an unfounded opinion to prove his actions to be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

All apple had to do was slap a "beta" tag in mdps like they did with siri.
Instead of complaints about something advertised as finished, they'd have received praise about something advertised as incomplete.

I disagree. With Siri, they weren't replacing another iOS feature, so calling it 'beta' didn't hurt anything. With Maps, calling it beta would have created even more problems. Giving people a beta and removing the established app would be an even bigger problem than what we have. Even if the beta worked 100% flawlessly and never let anyone down, people would be complaining "How could Apple take away the existing Maps solution and only give us a beta in its place?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here's a question...
If the major mapping location and POI issues get resolved in weeks instead of months. If the street view and transportation issues are made non-issues by quickly-available 3rd-party offerings. If, by Christmas 2012, Apple maps is the superior mobile maps app.
The question... Have we been played like a fine Stradivarius?
A little off the wall... Maybe... Maybe no!

It's totally irrelevant. Just like antennagate and all the other fabricated stories, it's not going to affect Apple's sales. The number of people whining about the Maps is insignificant. The majority of people haven't heard about it or, if they did, have completely ignored it (you generally have to hear something multiple times for it to make much of an impression). It will make no difference whether it's the same as it is today or if every single flaw is fixed by Christmas. No one is bothering to do a side-by-side comparison of the maps, anyway (except CR and even they didn't do it well).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Past performance is no guarantee of future success. 

iOS is still by far and away the best mobile platform on the planet at the moment but it's mess-ups like this that's allowing others to chip away at Apple's lead. Nothing lasts forever but I hope that Apple steps up its game to ensure that its time at the top lasts for as long as possible.

Please explain exactly what 'mess-up' you are referring to. But explain it only with facts, not loud-mouthed opinions from paid Google mouthpieces. What is the percentage of people who get wrong information from Apple's Maps vs the percentage who get wrong information from Google's Maps? Unless you have a statistical comparison, how can you call it a mess-up?
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post #333 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post


So you need factual difference?
Install the booking.com app and take a look in satellite view for island of skiathos. You cant even nearly estimate the environment of the hotel you want to book. If you have ios 5 by hand, feel free to compare...

 

Apparently people don't understand the difference between anecdote and evidence.

 

Yours is an interesting story, but it may well be that, for every instance like that found on Apple Maps where it isn't entirely perfect, there's at least one similar issue on Google Maps somewhere else in the world. In other words, it only shows that one works better at that particular location, not for the globe as a whole. A lot of the anecdotes we have on this source to Google who spent months going over the Apple Maps betas to find discrepancies. We know this to be the case because they didn't just whip together their little iLost ad in a moment. They had it prepared in advance for the launch of Apple's Maps, then, pulled the trigger on that little fraud immediately. For all we know, many of the "discrepancies" uncovered by Google were wrong on their Maps too, but they fixed them before the launch of Apple's Maps so they could use those as fodder.

 

So, how much better, if at all, is Google Maps today? We don't really have an answer to that since no one has compared the actual map data to a degree that allows any advantage to be quantified. What we do have are anecdotes on both sides claiming that one or the other is better at a specific location, reports that Apple Maps is vastly superior in China, fraudulent ads from Google, a lot of astroturfing, a repeat of the media's bad reporting on the so called "antennagate" issue where they didn't bother to research the story they were being fed, and generally a lot of misinformation being pushed around.

 

Want some tests that indicate Google Maps isn't really all that great compared to Apple Maps in the Canadian Province of Ontario? Read this: http://vore.cc/post/32503374905/old-maps-vs-new-maps

 

So, it seems that Google Maps, contrary to popular belief, may suck just as bad or worse than Apple Maps, at least in some locations. Why then is everyone claiming that Google Maps is "so much" better? I think it's a few things. One, Google's strategy of always trying to return a result, even if it's useless, may give the illusion of it being more omniscient. Apple's strategy of only returning real and sane results may, in comparison, make it seem faltering. We saw exactly this with fraudulent Google iLost ad, where they exploited it to make it appear that Apple Maps couldn't find things that Google Maps could, even those things didn't exist. This is basically equivalent to asking each map system, "Where do the elves live?" Google will drop a pin somewhere and say, "They live right here, now you know." Apple will tell you, "There are no elves."

 

The other factor, related to the first, is, because everyone is used to it. People like what they are used to. People don't like change. Just their familiarity with Google Maps and it' behaviors and quirks (and it appears to still have plenty of quirks), and their unfamiliarity with the personality of Apple's Maps, their not always knowing what to expect from it, while they know what Google Maps will do most of the time, makes them feel more comfortable with it, makes them think it's better. The point is, it may not be better. Google maps may just be the devil we know.

post #334 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Could you please post images that illustrate the point you're trying to make?
Using two different iPads I tried both the Google maps app and the Apple maps app for Skiathos.
As expected the satellite views were similar although Google maps showed a few more hotels.
Then I tried the booking.com app. This is a specialty app for booking hotels in various locations.
As expected, this app showed a lot more hotels but had a similar satellite view to the other apps. I could not easily determine who supplied the map and satellite data.
Okay, here's the deal…. There are about 100 million iPad in use. The iPad is an excellent vehicle for hotel booking and vacation planning – especially with apps like the booking.com, that you suggested. The iPad 3, with retina display, is especially well-suited to this type of application.
With Apples MapKit API, it is easy for a developer to write an application where pins are dropped and points of interest information is displayed ala booking.com. Apple supplies the map and the developer supplies the longitude, latitude and POI information.
Before iOS 6, all the backend map data was supplied by Google. Now all of backend map data is supplied by Apple and various third-party services.
I suspect that the map app developers will adjust their applications, as necessary, to use the new map data. And, I expect that they will be quite vocal reporting any deficiencies or map problems.
Long story, short... I expect that, within a few weeks, most of these third-party specialty map apps will be using the new Apple maps app backend... And browbeating Apple to supply 3-D flyover data for the areas that they service.

Hi, this exact thing is what bothers me. Developers are tied to default OS mapping application. At the moment i see ipad exactly like that.
Excellent vehicle with mediocre audio system. And the problem is if i keep speaking metaphorically, i can change the audio unit but crappy speakers are built in and irreplaceable. On ipad i can have third party app for maps, but any other app that uses maps will show only apple maps inside. It is not so problematic with browser for instance, whether to use safari or chrome is my own choice, but maps are part of many other applications which are now degraded partially. I will post the pictures in question when im on PC.

Actually, I think that the booking.com app disproves your concern. It is running on an iPad 3 was iOS six and it is using third-party maps... Apparently the maps are not supplied by Google or Nokia. Another app, StreetViewer, uses Google to supply the map backend.

The architecture of the Apple maps app is superior to the architecture of the Google maps app. Apple maps provides support for overglaze… For example how Street in name details appear as you zoom in on a map -- and are replaced by more global neighborhood data when you zoom out. I suspect that Apple will open this capability third-party developers. Then, they will be able to develop custom maps showing overlays of demographic such as crime, population density, average income, political affiliation…

As to better speakers: you can plug in speakers through the earphone jack, or AirPlay to external speakers.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/30/12 at 7:00am
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post #335 of 444
Out of curiosity, I've just been doing some map surfing on Apple maps.

Try as I might, I could not get Apple maps to return any location for Dome the Rock in Jerusalem. After some frustration, I finally located it on the hybrid map. Here's the good part: I used Siri to dictate the details of the problem and it was very easy to report it.

Well… On to Dubrovnik, then Paterson New Jersey.
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post #336 of 444
Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post
What on earth has this got to do with this thread???

 

When a question can be answered by reading the title of the article, I don't think you've thought it through very well.


Originally Posted by Rayz View Post
The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.

 

Here's the best part: By the time Google actually gets around to doing it, it will already be too late. Because Apple Maps will be better than all of their competitors by then.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #337 of 444
Odd...

I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".

It returned a list of two search results.

I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.

I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.

I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.

Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.

It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.
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post #338 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post

What on earth has this got to do with this thread???

When a question can be answered by reading the title of the article, I don't think you've thought it through very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.

Here's the best part: By the time Google actually gets around to doing it, it will already be too late. Because Apple Maps will be better than all of their competitors by then.

I think the OPs' assumption is wrong. Apple has divorced itself from Google maps. There is no going back. Apple may tolerate a Google offering on the app store -- but it will be, by definition, inferior because it will not be integrated into the OS and other apps.

Apple's app has a more robust architecture, and Apple will move quickly to exploit this -- regardless of what or when Google does anything.
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post #339 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Odd...
I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".
It returned a list of two search results.
I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.
I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.
I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.
Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.
It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.

Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.

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post #340 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Odd...
I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".
It returned a list of two search results.
I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.
I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.
I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.
Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.
It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.

Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.

 

None of the errors that I reported last weekend have been fixed, but since they are actually road mapping errors in the base map (missing county roads and new intersections) I would expect it to take some time.

post #341 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Odd...
I was map surfing for the various military academies and everything worked fine until I came to "Coast Guard Academy".
It returned a list of two search results.
I selected the first result and it returned a location not found dialogue.
I re-id the search and selected the second result -- it displayed the map with the correct location.
I did the same search over but now the two results were returned in opposite order.
Now, selecting either result returns the proper location.
It was as if the application was able to determine that the two results were actually the same location.

Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.

 

None of the errors that I reported last weekend have been fixed, but since they are actually road mapping errors in the base map (missing county roads and new intersections) I would expect it to take some time.

 

I am reporting them as I find them.... maps and POIs, mainly.

 

I do check back on those I remember!

 

It would help if the maps error reporting mechanism acknowledged that your report had been sent and received...  I reported that as an error, too!


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/30/12 at 8:26am
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post #342 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

I thought map caching was one of the key needs which Maps was to deliver. I haven't the opportunity to test this yet, but it was one of the weaknesses of Google that Apple was trying to overcome in its version.

post #343 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

He is. 
And I agree that doesn't automatically make him more qualified to comment on Apple management than someone who is not. Heck I've been CEO for two different companies myself, and still am at one of them.lol.gif

So everyone is CEO it seems.
Fine by me.

J.
post #344 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I thought map caching was one of the key needs which Maps was to deliver. I haven't the opportunity to test this yet, but it was one of the weaknesses of Google that Apple was trying to overcome in its version.

The old (Google-based) Maps app had a very tiny cache for maps data -- at least 10x too small.  The new Maps app seems to have no map data cache at all.

Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #345 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Please enlighten me...

 

I never said whose technology is involved -- just that Apple, its infrastructure (including backend partners) can handle the requests volume,,,

 

Here's a little secret for you: iTunes and iCloud don't run on Apple servers.


My point is, some companies develop scalable web/cloud software (and sometimes hardware) for their own use, and/or for sale to other companies. Examples: Oracle/Sun, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, IBM etc. Apple had such a technology when it acquired  NeXT (WebObjects), and actually used it for the Apple store in the beginning. Apple stopped selling it to other companies and only used it internally, and it stopped being supported and used. Most of what Apple does in the cloud is secret, which is a detriment. There is no pride in a secret back-room function.

 

Apple's focus on consumer electronics has served them well, but they don't seem to have the mindset to be successful in the cloud. They redesign their cloud services every few years, discontinue the old service, and the new service is incompatible with the old mac. Your old mac can't run a new OS, and can't use the new could service, so customers trying to use Apple's cloud services are screwed.

post #346 of 444
Cook's letter may be cleverly written, and is able to convey different messages to different people. But it is that kind of ambiguity which is to me, deceptive, disingenuous and typical of what I expect from corporate America. Rather than make a clear statement of Apple's position, the letter wreaks of unnecessary apology whether Cook intended a duplicitous message or not.

As for the who will see the letter, all I can say is anyone who watches morning news programs got an earful the next day, if my local news programs are indicative of the rest of the country. Anything Apple does makes news therefore giving the average consumer, those who might buy their iPhone at WalMart, a chance to hear what Apple did, without necessarily giving them a chance to parse Cooks letter for themselves. What I heard reported from several local network media outlets was a story made as important as other major news stories of the day by being included with the "real" news. And Cook's letter was paraphrased by each anchor, distilled to essentially this sound bite: "Apple issued a letter appologizing for customer outrage over its new Maps App that replaced Google's on the new iPhone, suggesting users download other apps instead" That's enough to do major damage right there (not that I think it will), but its going to give a few consumers pause before their next purchase of an iPhone. This is what bothers me about Cook's approach. While we can all sit here and distill the most positive message possible from his letter, the media is doing the exact opposite, intentionally, or otherwise.

Meanwhile, Google's missteps are not garnering nearly the same kind of media attaention as Apple. While Aple's apology letter is being misinterpreted all over the media and throughout the web, not one major media outlet has picked up Motorola's "faked address" story, much less reported it on a local news broadcast. It mainly shows up on geek tech blogs and the like. suffice it to say, most iphone consumers will never see that story. And that's the difference between Apple and everybody else, and why not just the letter of what they say is important, but also the tone, and clarity of the message. Jobs knew this and that's why Apple never released a statement that wasn't absolutely crystal clear in its meaning, leaving Apple's competitors and detractors no room to misinterpret their position. Cook doesn't have to be Jobs, but his message must be clear.

This letter hits the nail on the head of the point I've been trying to make and deserves to be reposted for anyone who missed it. If Cook has issued something like this, I think the media would have had far less room to misconstrue its message for the great unwashed masses for whom such a report is all they may ever hear about this mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


The only difference is Jobs might have called a media event. He, however, would not have apologized. Jobs might have called the product a beta out of the gate, which would have solved a lot of problems. If not, he would have said something like:

"Apple's mission is to make the best products in the world for our customers. That is the whole purpose of our existence. Our new map application found in iOS 6 is no exception. We designed it with the intent of it being the best Map application on the planet.  



With that said, there has been a lot of media attention surrounding our new Map application. Most of the media stories paint our application in a bad light. The purpose of this open letter is to address these criticisms. 




Before I do this, let me explain a little bit about why we changed our Map application. There is a proverb that says if you want to make a great omelet you have to be willing to break a few eggs. This essentially means if you want to achieve something wonderful, you have to be willing to destroy what is already there. This is the approach Apple took with its new map application. Apple wished to provide customers with great new features like turn by turn directions, beautiful graphics, and voice  search. Our existing map partnership with Google, however, failed to allow us to do that. So with our new Map application we started from scratch to deliver these features.






After a week on the market I can tell you that many of our customers love the new features like turn - by -turn directions, the speed of the application, fly over, Siri integration, and the amazing graphics. Some other customers, however, are rightfully concerned that the application has work to do in terms of providing correct information in regards to finding locations as well as some rendering issues. 




In truth, we simply failed to anticipate the amount of these errors being reported by these customers. We fully intend to investigate all these concerns, and rapidly issue fixes where necessary. I apologize if these bugs have caused some of our customers trouble.  




Meanwhile, please know a map application is largely dependent on user information because maps frequently change. All large mapping companies like Google and Nokia rely on users to help correct information contained in the maps. Apple is no exception. To address some of our users concerns we rely heavily on user impute to point out mistakes. We sincerely appreciate our customers who have been using the application and reporting incorrect information. 




Despite some of the rough edges in our first release, the application has laid the foundation for the best mapping application out there. I ask you to stick with us as we do our best to make the needed changes quickly. 






Please know, if our new map application is not usable for your needs, there are a variety of excellent third party maps on our App Store. If necessary for your needs, I invite you to try them out. Thank you"
post #347 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So the troll on AI doesn't understand that the difference doesn't matter in the slightest? lol.gif

Your points are moot unless you get a clue. lol.gif

So now I'm a troll and clueless because I want StreetView back on my iPhone, something I've had for the last 3 years?
Rich.
post #348 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Are you recording the places and dates that you're finding and submitting errors to Apple? It would be interesting to check back on them once a week to see how quickly Apple is responding to this crowd sourcing data, if at all.

Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?
I don't suffer fools lightly.
post #349 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

The 'apology' is a carefully worded threat: Eric, mate; we want a Google map that is functionally on a par with the Android version. We are not going back on this, no matter how much they wail in the forums, so the longer you take to deliver this then the more people you will lose to the likes of Waze. Take your time, we'll just carry on improving our own service; it really is up to you.

 

Nope.  Google Maps is toast on iOS.  Google Maps will be replaced by other 3rd parties with data and willing to augment Apple Maps with layers.

post #350 of 444

Will Apple Maps supersede Google Maps soon? The possibility exists because of iOS users are far more voracious consumers of the web. On the other hand, Google Maps was aided immeasurably by users over the years ... on the desktop. IMO, it is simply far easier to "annotate" on the desktop than on a phone. But maybe this is immaterial because Apple has invited iOS users to sample the mapping options available beyond the default app. Some users may not go back, regardless of how much iOS Maps improves. That's a good thing for us - we use what we find most useful and what we like best. Perhaps it was limiting to have relied only on the default solution all along.

post #351 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Cook's letter may be cleverly written, and is able to convey different messages to different people. But it is that kind of ambiguity which is to me, deceptive, disingenuous and typical of what I expect from corporate America. Rather than make a clear statement of Apple's position, the letter wreaks of unnecessary apology whether Cook intended a duplicitous message or not.

That's because you've already made up your mind that Apple is guilty and Cook is a moron.

In reality, t was a well-written, honest, clear letter.

1. We always strive to make the best possible applications.
2. We fell short this time.
3. We are fixing it.
4. We are sorry for any inconvenience this caused you.
5. If you're not happy with our app, we'll even give you the names of some alternatives you can use while we're improving ours.

How in the world is that duplicitous, disingenuous, deceptive, or ambiguous?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #352 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

 

I think this will come in time.

post #353 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?
I don't suffer fools lightly.

I sure hope you never look in a mirror.

Do you think that errors in Google's maps magically fixed themselves over the past years? Of course not. They got fixed by people reporting problems. That's how every mapping system gets better over time.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #354 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post


Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?
I don't suffer fools lightly.


Who's we? Do you actually believe Google Maps has never benefited from crowdsourcing?

 

Who is the fool here?

post #355 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

If I could get Apple to fix only one problem in Maps, it would be the lack of map data caching.  Many people need to rely on maps when they either have no Internet connection or when the only possible Internet connection involved expensive data roaming.  It's important to be able to load a route in advance, when one has a Wifi connection, and have Maps cache all the relevant map data.

I agree that caching would be a useful feature. However, I'm not sure I'd call it 'fixing a problem'. It's actually a new feature request and should be submitted as such. If you submit it as a bug, you'll get a message back that it's working as designed - and it is.
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post #356 of 444
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post
So now I'm a troll and clueless because I want StreetView back on my iPhone, something I've had for the last 3 years?
Rich.
 

Stick to the argument at hand, maybe? 

 

Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post
Why do Apple's work when we never had to for Google?

 

Probably because you don't, just as you don't have to help Google at all. Things just get done faster if you help. That's kind of how all aspects of society work.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #357 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

A few years ago, Apple asked Adobe to make Flash fit for mobile.

Adobe said, "Yeah, when we get around to it."

Actually, Adobe put a lot of work into Flash for iOS after the iPhone was introduced.

 

Apple refused to support Flash in iOS.

Apple engineers worked directly with Adobe for at least two years. This isn't Apple refusing to support it.

When Adobe realised that the iPad was going to be bigger than Jupiter, they scrambled like mad to fix the problem

Apple gave up hope that Adobe could do anything right as the first iPad was released.

They didn't do much after that except blame Apple for not supporting Flash for iOS (even though Adobe could not get to to work to anyone's satisfaction) and then Adobe finally decided that Flash for all mobile devices was much to work and gave it up.

post #358 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

So everyone is CEO it seems.
Fine by me.
J.

There's a lot of talented people here. Some own their own companies, some have doctorates, some are probably considered experts in their field. There's members who were dabbling in computer science since before Apple even existed, perhaps even contributing to today's innovations. Most AI members are secure enough with who they are and what they do that they don't need to seek outside validation by telling everyone else how accomplished they are, followed by how much more worthy that makes them than you. 

melior diabolus quem scies
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post #359 of 444
So do we say, "Mikey likes it," oh, "Mikey DOESN'T like it." Mikey, while I like your history, and your inside corporate perspectives, you got the long view wrong. Google maps for apple has been a hampered product for a long time anyway. It never kept pace with Android's Google maps. When you're giving your customer data to a competitor that throws you a "second-rate bone" to keep you happy, it's time to go to work on something better. Apple has struggled with partners forever. Samsung stealing ideas isn't new. We saw Microsoft freely borrow, and we saw Microsoft provide a weak sister version of MS Office to Apple. It's time for Apple to develop, if for no other reason than to push the competition by providing a parallel universe. They may not get it right at first, but they need to get in and go to work. re MS Office and iWork, I have both, and DON'T like Pages, but I've got friends who love it, and as iCloud pushes my documents around to all my devices, I'm starting to like it more. Apple will get it's Maps app right in time. And in the meantime, I'll go on using my 3rd party paid app that I've always used. Google maps gone from Apple a loss??? Mehhhh, not so much.
post #360 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post


So now I'm a troll and clueless because I want StreetView back on my iPhone, something I've had for the last 3 years?
Rich.

Use FlyOver if your city is covered.

You can actually zoom to street levels.  It's more consistent than street view.

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