LCD iMac enough to guarantee success?

Primarily, everyone wants an LCD iMac for the simple reason that it would mean an increase in the screen size of the iMac.

The current iMac visible screen size is only 13.8". This has become too small in the current market and make the iMac considerably less attractive from a usability, value standpoint.

An LCD iMac will supposedly have a 15" LCD. That's a big improvement in screen size, image quality and makes the unit value competitive once again.

If the iMac LCD quality is anywhere near as good as the current Apple LCD displays, then the iMac will be an amazing value and a great desktop unit.

Plus, people just like new, different things to look at.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]</p>

i'm sure apple has a couple tricks up it's sleeve....

i'm also sure we'll be plenty stunned when we first see it......it always does (ie cube, ipod)

I'm sure it will have at least one awesome feature that we won't know about until it glides out across stage and Steve talks about it.

The current iMacs sell fairly decently in their current (admittedly) boring form factor. Adding a fresh new form factor w/LCD would, in and of itself, significantly impact iMac sales.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: zaustin ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Tarbash:
<strong>I'm sure it will have at least one awesome feature that we won't know about until it glides out across stage and Steve talks about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Tarbash, I love your attitude!! I just had to say that!!

As for what gimmicks are needed?? I am not sure any. Because it may be an LCD screen, however what put the iMac on the market was its design. I think that is what is going to kick the iMac into the next millenium. Also, I think there is going to be a big surprise about this iMac. Do I know?? No more than you do. i just think it is going to be cool.

The answer to your question, though, is that it will be the design that will sell the iMac2.

[quote]Originally posted by zaustin:
<strong>The current iMacs sell fairly decently in their current (admittedly) boring form factor. Adding a fresh new form factor w/LCD would, in and of itself, significantly impact iMac sales.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: zaustin ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

no they don't. they are selling hundreds of thousands less than they did in 99 and 2000.

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

no they don't. they are selling hundreds of thousands less than they did in 99 and 2000.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I sell them. Sure they sell less than in the glory days, but this is still a significant number (percentage wise) of the macs that go out the door.

[quote]Originally posted by zaustin:
<strong>

I sell them. Sure they sell less than in the glory days, but this is still a significant number (percentage wise) of the macs that go out the door.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Who actually buys them? Newbies? People just updrading from an older Mac? I don't get why anyone would actually buy one.

I personally would rather see the iMac get a nice beefy fast G4 and some expansion (not to mention upgradeable graphics).

I don't really care for an LCD, it's nice, but there's a problem:

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>Primarily, everyone wants an LCD iMac for the simple reason that it would mean an increase in the screen size of the iMac.

The current iMac visible screen size is only 13.8". This has become too small in the current market and make the iMac considerably less attractive from a usability, value standpoint.

An LCD iMac will supposedly have a 15" LCD. That's a big improvement in screen size, image quality and makes the unit value competitive once again.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

See, I think undoubtedly, the 15 inch LCD will have a 1024 x 768 resolution. Which is the same as the current CRT screen. You just gained 0% extra desktop space on the monitor. For me, the LCD would not be a step up wrt screen resolution.

Second problem is the scaling to 800 x 600 when playing games. Not that LCD's are really that bad, but a nice CRT scales a lot better.

I like LCD's a lot, but they're not always an improvement.

I most of all fear that Apple will use that fact of an LCD iMac to hike the price upwards. If Apple is sensible enough, they won't up the price. If they do thta, they can keep the LCD, as far as i'm concerned.

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

no they don't. they are selling hundreds of thousands less than they did in 99 and 2000.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed, applenut (WTF...did I just agree with you?) Anyway, iMac sales peaked at around 700,000 for the holiday quarter in 99.....they are around 200,000 now......yeah, there selling
great.

NeoMac writes:

[quote]An LCD iMac will supposedly have a 15" LCD. That's a big improvement in screen size, image quality and makes the unit value competitive once again. <hr></blockquote>

Screen Size---yep. But, I just got an indigo 500MHZ CD-RW iMac at work yesterday. Compared to my pismo the image is so much brighter it makes my pismo look like its faded...aqua is beautiful on a CRT, IMO. I can't believe the difference.....I am starting to wonder about buying an Apple LCD when I buy my pro machine next year.....any other thoguhts on this?? I mean, the difference was ridiculous. the sharpness wasn't quite there, but damn, the difference was, IMJ (in my judgement) like 50% in terms of brightness. Damn.

What do you guys think? I want the LCD iMac but i'm not sure anymore about an external LCD.

Don't completly rule out a 17" short-neck CRT w/a new form factor as a possible surprise
.
Revolution iMAC $799
17" Short neck CRT
700MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
20 GB Hard Drive, 24xCD-ROM
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

$999
17" Short neck CRT
800MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
30 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

$1099
17" Short neck CRT
800MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
40 GB Hard Drive, CD/RW
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

These machines would scream.

The LCD iMAC would then be positioned as the cube's replacement and priced $1,299, $1,399 and $1,599

LCD iMAC $1,299
17" LCD Display
800 MHz 7450 G4
133 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC133 SDRAM
40 GB Hard Drive, CD-ROM
Two USB Ports, two 800 Firewire
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
Built in Airport

LCD iMAC $1,399
17" LCD Display
867 MHz 7450 G4
133 MHz system bus, 256 MB PC133 SRAM
60 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM
Two USB Ports, two 800 Firewire
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
Built in Airport

LCD iMAC $1,599
15" LCD Display
933 MHz 7450 G4
133 MHz system bus, 256 MB PC133 SDRAM
80 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM/CD-RW
Two USB Ports, two 800 Firewire
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView and 64MB of SDRAM
Built in Airport

[quote]Originally posted by sarasotabob:
<strong>Don't completly rule out a 17" short-neck CRT w/a new form factor as a possible surprise
.
Revolution iMAC $799
17" Short neck CRT
700MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
20 GB Hard Drive, 24xCD-ROM
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

$999
17" Short neck CRT
800MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
30 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

$1099
17" Short neck CRT
800MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
40 GB Hard Drive, CD/RW
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

These machines would scream.

The LCD iMAC would then be positioned as the cube's replacement and priced $1,299, $1,399 and $1,599

LCD iMAC $1,299
17" LCD Display
800 MHz 7450 G4
133 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC133 SDRAM
40 GB Hard Drive, CD-ROM
Two USB Ports, two 800 Firewire
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
Built in Airport

LCD iMAC $1,399
17" LCD Display
867 MHz 7450 G4
133 MHz system bus, 256 MB PC133 SRAM
60 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM
Two USB Ports, two 800 Firewire
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
Built in Airport

LCD iMAC $1,599
15" LCD Display
933 MHz 7450 G4
133 MHz system bus, 256 MB PC133 SDRAM
80 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM/CD-RW
Two USB Ports, two 800 Firewire
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView and 64MB of SDRAM
Built in Airport</strong><hr></blockquote>

1) I don't think a 17" short neck is likely...though possible I concede.

2) What is up with your hard drive sizes? they are 20, 40 and 60 right now.

3) Built in AirPort for 799? BWWWHHAAAAAHAHAHA

4) 400MHZ Bus on a 799 iMac? 133MHZ in the G4 model? ROTFL.

There is more, but I'll stop there.

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[quote]Originally posted by sarasotabob:
<strong>Don't completly rule out a 17" short-neck CRT w/a new form factor as a possible surprise
.
Revolution iMAC $799
17" Short neck CRT
700MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
20 GB Hard Drive, 24xCD-ROM
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

$999
17" Short neck CRT
800MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
30 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

$1099
17" Short neck CRT
800MHz Sahara G3
400 MHz system bus, 128 MB PC266 DDR-SRAM
40 GB Hard Drive, CD/RW
NVIDA GeForce 2MX w/32MB of SDRAM
2 USB & 1 FireWire 800 Port
Built in Airport

These machines would scream.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wouldn't at least 1 of those iMacs come with 256MB RAM?

[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>Who actually buys them? Newbies? People just updrading from an older Mac? I don't get why anyone would actually buy one.</strong><hr></blockquote>You buy them if you want a desktop Mac but don't want to pay $2000 or more.

I bet there really is a lot of pent-up demand for a new iMac at a good price. They need to have an iBook-like success with this new machine.

[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>But, I just got an indigo 500MHZ CD-RW iMac at work yesterday. Compared to my pismo the image is so much brighter it makes my pismo look like its faded...aqua is beautiful on a CRT, IMO. </strong><hr></blockquote>I agree with you and The Belgian Waffle. I have an iMac at home and a 17" flat panel at work, and there is no comparison in quality - the CRT is much, much nicer.

I think Apple will use the LCD because of the style. I think that's unfortunate, because they could have a much nicer quality monitor, at a much better price, if they use a CRT in the iMac.

Perhaps they'll keep a version of the CRT iMac around for a while.

Although the screen resolution on the iMac will remain the same, a 15" LCD sounds better from a marketing perspective.

Comparing the Pismo LCD to a CRT is a poor comparison.

I used to love my Pismo, but there are a whole bunch of issues with the screen now. It has turned pink in one corner and its brightness has faded. It has speckled and scratched. I've very unhappy. A $3000 laptop is now worth $1300 in less than 2 yrs. I'm not too happy about this - at all!

But, I'm willing to concede that since the Pismo was made, LCD technology has improved considerably. The Apple displays I've seen are just stunning and I'm sure the iMac will use the same type displays.

I find OS X better looking on LCDs. I don't like how the pinstripes and everything looks on CRTs, especially the iMac's screen which I think is pretty bad.

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>Although the screen resolution on the iMac will remain the same, a 15" LCD sounds better from a marketing perspective.

Comparing the Pismo LCD to a CRT is a poor comparison.

I used to love my Pismo, but there are a whole bunch of issues with the screen now. It has turned pink in one corner and its brightness has faded. It has speckled and scratched. I've very unhappy. A $3000 laptop is now worth $1300 in less than 2 yrs. I'm not too happy about this - at all!

But, I'm willing to concede that since the Pismo was made, LCD technology has improved considerably. The Apple displays I've seen are just stunning and I'm sure the iMac will use the same type displays.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I don't know what you did there, but my screen is OK. No dead pixels, just some dark edges near the bottom corners which wear there from the beginning.

And as for you not being happy with how it has help up in terms of value....well, DUH. No computer is going to hold its value....what did you think? I think $1300 is pretty good actually.....

Better get ready to be pissed because with the problems you are describing it's not worth shit!

Yeah, the Pismo's LCD isn't as high quality as the newer LCDs. I think any LCD that's used for the iMac will be very nice, and if it's the same quality as the LCDs used in ASDs, then we have nothing to worry about.

I use iMacs at work, and the CRTs in them are horrible. There are blurry spots on the screen, mostly on the edges but some towards the center. Contrast isn't very good, and of course resolution goes plently high only because the display is so tiny.

As for resolution mattering more than screen size, I disagree. While it's true that if the LCD iMac uses the same resolution as the current CRT, that the actual amount of space would be the same, this isn't the whole story. At 1024x768 I find the current iMac's image quality too low to be able to easily read text. Plus, for gaming a larger screen is more immersive, regardless of the resolution. I think this is true for any graphics work. Even if the resolution is the same, a larger display enhances one's experience because objects are larger and thus it's easier to see small details and work without squinting.

But perhaps part of this is that my eyesight isn't so great...but this also represents many potential iMac buyers.

What I'd really like to see in addition to the LCD display--what would really floor me--is if the new iMac used the Apollo G4 and was clocked at 1 GHz. Make all of the models 1 GHz and call it the Apollo imac or whatever. It would be a bitchin machine and like I keep saying, Altivec in such a large user base as that of iMacs would be a solid kick in the ass for developer's to work harder at optimizing their apps for altivec, when it's practical. And with OS X optimized for atlivec, it's even more crucial that Apple bestow a G4 upon the iMac.

Ugh, I've got one of those hangovers where I still feel drunk...hope this made sense..;lgafg;ogsd'

[quote]Originally posted by zaustin:
<strong>The current iMacs sell fairly decently in their current (admittedly) boring form factor. Adding a fresh new form factor w/LCD would, in and of itself, significantly impact iMac sales.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: zaustin ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


It does not.. Read the latest AAPL K10 filling
<a href="http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000091205701528148/a2056203z10-q.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000091205701528148/a2056203z10-q.htm</a>

The imac sales are down by ~30 % compared to lat year. And I dont think Apple is able to turn the trend in AAPL Fiscal Q1-2002. The iMac is old news, the G3 is old news. Something new is needed.

All I want in a new iMac is a bigger screen (doesn't have to be LCD), AT LEAST GeForce 2MX, and 256MB RAM. Apple is pathetic when it comes to RAM. Nowaday, even 256 isn't that much and Apple ships "pro" systems with 128 WTF?

[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>All I want in a new iMac is a bigger screen (doesn't have to be LCD), AT LEAST GeForce 2MX, and 256MB RAM. Apple is pathetic when it comes to RAM. Nowaday, even 256 isn't that much and Apple ships "pro" systems with 128 WTF?</strong><hr></blockquote>

At least it seems like Apple's learning at least a little by shiping the TiBooks with 256MB in the 550 and 512 in the 667.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: EmAn ]</p>

LCD iMac enough to guarantee success? No.

It's time for a revolution, and Apple's ready. I have faith.

Comparing a laptop LCD to a desktop monitor is unfair. You need to compare a desktop LCD to a desktop monitor. Laptop LCDs are dimmer, have smaller viewing angles and are generally inferior to their desktop counterparts for one reason: power. A bright LCD on a powerbook would kill the battery.

If Apple uses a decent LCD display, like they do with their other product lines, I think there will be few complaints. (Well, someone will start bitching that they should use a 17" LCD instead of that 15 incher, but whatever....)

Something to keep in mind when comparing a Pismo to an iMac

[quote]Originally posted by zaustin:
<strong>

I sell them. Sure they sell less than in the glory days, but this is still a significant number (percentage wise) of the macs that go out the door.</strong><hr></blockquote>

the iBook used to sell hundreds of thousands less than the iMac.

the iBook now outsells the iMac by large numbers

case closed

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

the iBook used to sell hundreds of thousands less than the iMac.

the iBook now outsells the iMac by large numbers

case closed</strong><hr></blockquote>

That all happened after the iBook had a huge makeover and got better specs. The same thing will happen with the iMac. The only thing is the iMac is long overdue.

two words,

superdrive

oh wait thats one word isn't it, anyway if apple could figure out a way to sell an afordable imac with a G4 and a superdrive they will own the consumer market. Not to mention every dvd manufacturer will want to have steve's babies. Putting dvd creation within reach of the average consumer would be a coup and is exactly what I have come to expect from apple.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Mike D ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Mike D:
<strong>two words,

superdrive

oh wait thats one word isn't it, anyway if apple could figure out a way to sell an afordable imac with a G4 and a superdrive they will own the consumer market. Not to mention every dvd manufacturer will want to have steve's babies. Putting dvd creation within reach of the average consumer would be a coup and is exactly what I have come to expect from apple.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: Mike D ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course it would own the Consumer market. Now let's just hope Apple could do it without pricing it too high.

hmmm...

About those LCD's. I've used two Pismos. An undergrad prof had them in his lab (with some other goodies) that I used from time to time. The screen is good for a laptop, but it isn't great. The screens of both iBooks (toilet seat & chicklet) were much brighter and higher contrast. I have no problem saying that the current iBook screen is much better than the iMac CRT. Even at that small size it is easier on the eyes. All of Apple's current LCD's have great color, brightness, and contrast, that easily outdo that pathetic, blurry, curved affair on the iMac.

If the new iMac is not going to be a performance leader, it **must** have something to distinguish it from PC alternatives. An LCD and beautiful aesthetics may be enough, but it had better be orgasmically beautiful. I think at least one model ought to get a superdrive. Thats' the only thing I could think of Apple offering that would compel many consumers to try a new platform, and to do so with a model that they consider slower and of limited expansion. iDVD + iMovie + OSX + 'superdrive iMac' would sell A LOT of machines to schools, hobbiests, curious people... anyone with creative/hollywood aspirations. Every Spielberg wannabe (and there are a lot of them) would order one the day of the web cast.

Which brings us to another question. Has a web cast been announced? I heard that Apple might stop doing web casts because of the time/money factor. But if a web cast is announced before MWSF, you can bet they have a knock-out package to debut. If not... well... oh well... maybe next time. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

apple will of course webcast it. only costs them bandwidth..

they don't announce it till a week or even days before the show usually.

[quote]1)Touch screen LCD<hr></blockquote>No, No, No! A thousand times no!! A touchscreen would be the dumbest possible addition to a desktop computer. Precision is a joke with touchscreens. What could someone use it for on a Mac? Clicking an item on a 64x64 sized Dock tile?

[quote]4) Tiny built-in camera/video capture<hr></blockquote>That's the only thing that remotely sounds Apple-esque enough for the new iMac.

I'm honestly up in the air about this issue. I think that there are a lot more bad ideas than good... hopefully Apple has taken a lot of care and market research into developing this new product (assming there is a new iMac at MWSF).

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>apple will of course webcast it. only costs them bandwidth..</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is correct. IIRC, Apple owns a big chunk of Akamai. :cool:

A LCD will help to sell iMacs. I knew a couple of elder people incl my own parents wanting a small, easy usable comp with LCD screen and nothing else. LCD is better, if your eyes aren't the best ones anymore.
There are some Wintels out there, which are small, with a LCD, but easy to use? No, not at all. And those people don't care about 100$ less or more, the machine got to fit their needs and wishes. If Apple will announce an iMac with LCD, there's a chance of 95% my parents will buy one. If he includes a G4 and VPC (for some astronomical progs), the chance is 99,99%.

And a iMac with a G4 and LCD will be a superb office machine, ask your admin.

[quote]Originally posted by the Belgian waffle:
<strong>I

Second problem is the scaling to 800 x 600 when playing games. Not that LCD's are really that bad, but a nice CRT scales a lot better.

.</strong><hr></blockquote>
With a good video card like the radeon there is no need to play at 800*600 . I expect that the next I mac will have a decent video card

As Apple have ordered large quantites of the new iMac it is expecting them to sell very well. How well? As well first the iMac, which sold because it was so revolutionary.

A LCD iMac although nice is not special, not revolutionary, not 'diiferent''.

Apple has produce the next iMac to have as much impact as the last one or it may as well not bother.

Expect something very special.

IMHO, Apple has proved it's commitment to DV and is making strides and gaining a strong reputation for this. It is logical that Apple has focused on DV with the new iMac's design.

[quote]Originally posted by naderby:
<strong>A LCD iMac although nice is not special, not revolutionary, not 'diiferent''.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

your spelling is though

I work in education and sit on a purchasing committee for computers. Apple is having difficulties making sales. PC's are taking over the market. The only thing holding back their extinction is the
1) The graphic/video capabilities of the G4's (and stubborn teachers like me who disregard district policy and purchase Macs anyway. Yes there are policies in most districts around me stating that PC's are the only computers to be purchased. Only if we argue hard enough do they capitulate. Threats also work)
2) The cheap price of the iMacs.

For education the iMacs have to be as cheap as possible. A $100 raise in price to accommodate an LCD (I would be shocked if it was ONLY $100) could decimate their educational sales.

I do think the LCD is inevitable and I do believe it will increase their consumer sales.

I can't see them abandoning the CRT completely.

The LCD could come in at exactly the same price points as the current models... for the most part. Bare panels were reported to cost manufacturers (who then put their own enclosures on them) about $180. That was a few months ago. certainly possible for the 999 model. I do, however, think they should spec an ultra cheap 'classic' version Something with a small HDD and a CD-rom only. Just one color too. 599US. Dell and gateway, and a number of local builders here in Toronto, can sell a 999US PC with a 15" TFT included. So can Apple.

The features needed to make iMacs fly of the shelves (in a good way)

1. G4
2. bigger, clearer, higher resolution screen
3. bluetooth keyboard and mouse
4. superdrive
5. geforce 3 (the can use the Ti200 for $75ish)