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EU judge recommends review of Apple's advertised warranties

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
The chief justice of the European Union has said that Apple's advertised AppleCare product warranties should be examined to determine whether they comply with the law.

EU Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding wrote a letter to the 27 countries that are members of the EU that was obtained by Bloomberg. The letter called Apple's marketing practices "unacceptable."

"Apple prominently advertised that its products come with a one-year manufacturer warranty but failed to indicate the consumers' automatic and free-of-cost entitlement to a minimum two-year guarantee under EU law," Reding wrote.

AppleCare Italy


The letter comes after the Italian government fined Apple $1.2 million earlier this year for not providing customers with accurate information regarding mandated product guarantees and warranty stipulations. Apple was investigated for "unfair commercial practices," and was found to have pushed its paid two-year AppleCare warranty on customers, despite the fact that EU laws require companies to offer the same protections without charge.

In response, Apple featured a "communication to protect consumers" in Italy in January. In complying with the court order, Apple began informing customers at its online store about the legally mandated two-year warranty.

While Apple's warranty trouble has been primarily in Italy to date, the letter from Reding suggests that those issues could spread to other countries in the EU. Each country in the union has different sanctions for violations of consumer protection law, but the EU cannot investigate a company itself for misleading advertising.
post #2 of 40
Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.
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post #3 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

Except if people don't ask for it, they will be charged for the repairs. Apple are charging for AppleCare which advertises that it offers more than call-centre support, which it does not.

It is Apple's responsibility to ensure they are following the laws of the countries they sell in, and do not misrepresent a customer's rights. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to inform the customer of their rights, but just that they do not deliberately and with foresight mislead them.
post #4 of 40

This just in, Apple to stop selling all products and services in the EU. 

 

This just in minutes later, citizens of the EU have impeached those responsible for this inquiry.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #5 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

According to a couple of news stories a few months ago there are concerns Apple uses the advertised one-year warranty as a marketing tool to help sell AppleCare, which the Italian government took issue with. IMO that's probably at least one of the concerns for the EU Chief.

melior diabolus quem scies
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post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

That assumes that everyone knows their rights and is willing and able to enforce those rights.

I don't know EU law so I can't evaluate the validity of the claims. However, if it is true that Apple has to offer a two year warranty, then their packaging and advertising should reflect that.
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post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

I understand your point, but still, Apple needs to inform people of their rights

 

-

In France, Apple store doesn't tell it to customers unless you ask (I tested it, the apple employees was very informative and polite, he explained me than yes, Apple does not communicate that, it's to customers to ASK, then he told me EVERYTHING about the european law )

post #8 of 40
Did you just read the same article that I did? Apple is being accused of used car sales style gimmicks that kill brand loyalty and cheat customers. The right thing to do here is refund all apple care sales for the year required by law. The smart thing to do would be to extend 2 year warranties to all of your customers and negotiate a discount on any replacements required from your suppliers. Apple is a premium brand that earns more than any other in the world. Giving world class service is a big part of that brand.

The most important thing to do right now is fix the incentives that are causing any employee or reseller to use these sales tactics.

Customers never forget this kind of treatment. They may forgive but they never forget.
If I ever get a chance to get even for this kind of treatment I never hesitate to do so.
post #9 of 40
@everyone above (except Macnewsjunkie): yes, people should know their rights, and voice this. But hey, people do this, no? People that don't are most likely missing out on a lot more in life that a 2 year warrant.

@Gatorguy: LOL. If they 'EU chief' is going to request Apple not to sell AppleCare, we ,might just get into a recession as less money changes hands. Wait -
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post #10 of 40

Apple getting called on dirty tactics, selling people things that they're entitled to by law.  Good.

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post #11 of 40

Do other companies, such as Dell, display this information prominently on their Italian website? Or are Apple being targeted for being the industry leader?

post #12 of 40
I think that Vivian doesn't really know what she's talking about.
Looks more as she's paid by someone to fight against Apple.
In the second year of common guarantee you must prove that the product already had a problem when you bought it.
With Apple Care you just explain your problem.
And if they can't fix it by phone you'll get a new one.
Just try it with a Samsung or any other product or company.

Apple Care is much much more than the standard guarantee.
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Do other companies, such as Dell, display this information prominently on their Italian website? Or are Apple being targeted for being the industry leader?

Been looking around the Dell Italy website and it seems it doesn't.

 

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/emea/topics/footer/terms?c=it&l=it&s=gen

 

(Google translated)

Dell warrants that the Products are: (i) conform to the description of the Product, (ii) be free from material defects for a period of one year from the date of delivery (Base Warranty Service), and (iii) the parts Dell are free of any defects for a period of ninety calendar days from the date of delivery or for the remaining warranty period, whichever is longer, the Services or required by law. The Customer is also available, among other things, a range of services, including but not limited to, warranties of repair or replacement, which extend for a period longer than that provided for in the Base Warranty Service. Dell will repair and replace the Product in accordance with the description of the service that the customer buys and the applicable law to protect the consumer.

 

Also, when buying a Laptop, this is displayed:

 

 

Roughly Google translated:

 

Services Help Me Choose

1 year on-site hardware support within one business day
 
If Apple has to do it, so should all manufacturers.
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post #14 of 40

The second year of required warranty is not the same as the first in most EU countries and certainly doesn't match the coverage of AppleCare.  The second year only covers deficiencies that were present at the time of sale.  So, a weak battery in the 2nd year would not be covered. RAM or a hard drive that fails in the second year would not be covered.  The Czech Republic, Hungary and Italy are the only countries I'm aware of that require full warranty coverage for a minimum of two years.

post #15 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

You have to obey the laws and norms of where you do business. Otherwise, stay at home.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This just in, Apple to stop selling all products and services in the EU. 

There's only one slight problem. Apple gets 23% of its revenue and 27% of operating income from Europe.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
However, if it is true that Apple has to offer a two year warranty, then their packaging and advertising should reflect that.

Agreed.

post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

Just realised recently that's also how to do it in Australia.

Not tried it myself yet though because I've only been back for a year. Anyone?

Gawd Bless The 1st World (ex America)... (Just kidding!)
post #17 of 40
Bought an iPhone in Germany from O2 that started to crash every day after 14 months of use. O2 did not pay for the repair because according to the 2 year EU warranty, it is up to the user to prove that the product was faulty. So, it cost me 200 Euros to have my iPhone replaced. For that much money, I could have gotten a new Android phone!

It's not Apple that needs to restate its warranty. It is the EU that needs to drop that stupid 2 year warranty where the user needs to prove any faulty parts after 6 months.

Actually, my iPhone had problems with crashing frequently during my 1 year warranty period. But I figured it is just software... after 14 months it got worse, where it crashed and a reboot did not fix it. Had to do a complete restore. This happened twice, and then I figured I need to do something. But I could not prove that the iPhone was crashing often during the first year, so the EU *law* did not help me in any way. Actually, the EU law is very misleading to the consumer.
post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post

Except if people don't ask for it, they will be charged for the repairs. Apple are charging for AppleCare which advertises that it offers more than call-centre support, which it does not.
It is Apple's responsibility to ensure they are following the laws of the countries they sell in, and do not misrepresent a customer's rights. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to inform the customer of their rights, but just that they do not deliberately and with foresight mislead them.

Yeah this is a nagging issue recently here in Australia as well. The habit of selling extended warranties still goes on but is now frowned upon by the govr'ment (supposedly, ACCC jumping up and down apparently).
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

The second year of required warranty is not the same as the first in most EU countries and certainly doesn't match the coverage of AppleCare.  The second year only covers deficiencies that were present at the time of sale.  So, a weak battery in the 2nd year would not be covered. RAM or a hard drive that fails in the second year would not be covered.  The Czech Republic, Hungary and Italy are the only countries I'm aware of that require full warranty coverage for a minimum of two years.

AppleCare does not cover weak batteries. Only batteries that were deemed defective at the time in first went into your computer. RAM failure should be covered by statutory warranties, weird how the EU doesn't cover that. HDD understandable.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

AppleCare does not cover weak batteries. Only batteries that were deemed defective at the time in first went into your computer. RAM failure should be covered by statutory warranties, weird how the EU doesn't cover that. HDD understandable.

I've never owned a Mac yet, but I've had my iPhone 4S replaced in July because the battery was lasting less than 50% the advertised length. That's their stated policy.
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

Those laws only cover defects at time of purchase from the seller. And in many countries after the first 6-8 months the customer is the one that has to prove it was there.

Whereas Apple covers anything at any time during the period no matter here you bought it so long as it was a legit authorized dealer (or a private party that bought it from an authorized source) and it isn't from obvious damage.

Apple is only at fault if they refused someone with a legit claim that bought from them and there have been few to no claims of such being refused.

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post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

AppleCare does not cover weak batteries. Only batteries that were deemed defective at the time in first went into your computer. RAM failure should be covered by statutory warranties, weird how the EU doesn't cover that. HDD understandable.

You are wrong. Applecare does cover weak batteries.

http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html
"During the plan’s coverage period, Apple will replace the battery if it drops below 50% of its original capacity."

However, this covers only iPhones, iPads, and iPods. It does not cover notebooks.
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post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post

Except if people don't ask for it, they will be charged for the repairs. Apple are charging for AppleCare which advertises that it offers more than call-centre support, which it does not.

Yes it does. Unlike these laws it covers all non damage, no matter when it happened nd no where who you bought it from

These laws aren't warranties so much as extended lemon laws. They only cover defects present at purchase. And outside of maybe two or three countries the customer has to prove it to get any relief.

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post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Apple getting called on dirty tactics, selling people things that they're entitled to by law.  Good.

You need to check the laws because no they are not. They are selling something above and beyond what the law requires.

As a consumer it is up to you to know your rights. No company, not even the all holy Apple has to teach you those laws. And in any cases it is up to you to invoke them, not for them to offer and if you don't because you didn't educate yourself then that's not their issue. After all these laws don't require the to cover all damage, just what they directly sold you damaged at the time they sold it to you. If you bought your iPhone from Dixons, for example, you can't invoke the laws at an Apple store, you have to go back to Dixons. And you have to say it was that way when you bought it and depending on the timing and UK law you might have to prove it or get nothing. But with AppleCare you can go in at 20 months with that non working phone that you bought at Dixons and so long as they can't prove you damaged it they will replace it. THAT is what you are buying and no law gives you that in the UK for sure as well as most of the EU (I believe Poland, Romania and the Czech Rep are the exceptions on the proof issue but you still go to the seller)

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post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

You need to check the laws because no they are not. They are selling something above and beyond what the law requires.

Yes and no.

While it is true that AppleCare is for something above and beyond what the law requires (you don't need to prove the product was defective and AppleCare also covers things and services that are not covered by the warranty), there is a good argument that Apple's sales practices are illegal. For example, there were claims that Apple's sales people were giving false information about what the warranty covered and/or the length of the warranty in order to sell more AppleCare contracts (at least in Italy). If that's the case, Apple needs to be forced to change their policies. There's no justification for lying to consumers.
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post #26 of 40
I believe this
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Dell will repair and replace the Product in accordance with the description of the service that the customer buys and the applicable law to protect the consumer.

is their statement of 'compliance'

But what I want to know is if they spell it out the way that everyone is demanding Apple must, does Dell offer a paid extended service etc. are they selling 'what you get under the law' like folks are accusing Apple. And if they are why is it getting no notice from these groups.

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post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

Those laws only cover defects at time of purchase from the seller. And in many countries after the first 6-8 months the customer is the one that has to prove it was there.

Whereas Apple covers anything at any time during the period no matter here you bought it so long as it was a legit authorized dealer (or a private party that bought it from an authorized source) and it isn't from obvious damage.

Apple is only at fault if they refused someone with a legit claim that bought from them and there have been few to no claims of such being refused.

That certainly is a valid point. People, take note of this reply
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post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Yes it does. Unlike these laws it covers all non damage, no matter when it happened nd no where who you bought it from
These laws aren't warranties so much as extended lemon laws. They only cover defects present at purchase. And outside of maybe two or three countries the customer has to prove it to get any relief.

Cheers for clearing this up. So it is normally provided by the retailer/carrier.

I think I may be confused though. How can a device suffer a hardware failure if it wasn't either (a) present at time of purchase or (b) damage (not covered by either)? How can a customer prove this if there was no sign of failure before the hardware... well, failed?

Thanks for your input.
post #29 of 40

To my understanding we are talking about three different warranties here:

     1) the legally required EU two-year warranty, which is of very limited scope and requires certain conditions to be met

     2) the standard Apple one-year warranty, which includes provisions not required by law

     3) Applecare extended two-year warranty, which provides the same coverage as the standard Apple warranty just for a longer time period

The confusion is that people think that because Apple offers a value-added one-year warranty, that Apple have to provide two-years of this same warranty to satisfy EU requirements.  This is not the case, Apple only has to provide the required coverage for the two-year period, not the added features of an Apple warranty.  In other words, when you buy an Apple product in the EU, you are getting two warranties on your Apple product - the EU required coverage and the Apple standard warranty.  Applecare is just an extension of the standard warranty, so the people who buy it are actually getting added value.

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post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

To my understanding we are talking about three different warranties here:
     1) the legally required EU two-year warranty, which is of very limited scope and requires certain conditions to be met
     2) the standard Apple one-year warranty, which includes provisions not required by law
     3) Applecare extended two-year warranty, which provides the same coverage as the standard Apple warranty just for a longer time period

...  Applecare is just an extension of the standard warranty, so the people who buy it are actually getting added value.

So, just to be clear, can we outline what AppleCare offers that the EU standard warranty does not (apart from phone support)?
post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post


So, just to be clear, can we outline what AppleCare offers that the EU standard warranty does not (apart from phone support)?

That would be tedious, but luckily Apple has done that for us.  Also I would assume -perhaps wrongly - that the EU coverage would not include software issues.

http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

 

Summary of EU Statutory Warranty, the Apple One-Year Limited Warranty and the AppleCare Protection Plan

  EU Consumer Law Apple One-Year Limited Warranty AppleCare Protection Plan
Repair or replacement coverage for Defects present when customer takes delivery1 Defects arising after customer takes delivery Defects arising after customer takes delivery
Claim period 2 years (minimum) from date of delivery2 1 year from date of purchase 3 years from date of purchase for Mac or Apple display
2 years from date of purchase for Apple TV, iPad, iPhone or iPod
Cost of coverage Provided at no additional cost Included at no additional cost Available for additional cost
Who to contact to make a claim The seller3 Apple telephone technical support, Apple Retail Store or Apple-Authorised Service Provider Apple telephone technical support, Apple Retail Store or Apple-Authorised Service Provider
Included repair or replacement options Contact the seller for details Carry-in or postal service4 Carry-in or postal service; express replacement service for iPad and iPhone; or onsite service for desktop computers4
Overseas repair or replacement Contact the seller for details Yes5 Yes5
Telephone technical support None 90 days from date of purchase 3 years from date of purchase for Mac or Apple display
2 years from date of purchase for Apple TV, iPad, iPhone or iPod

Edited by diplication - 10/1/12 at 11:43am

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post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Here we go. Again. I mean, it really isn't necessary. If something breaks down in the 2nd year, simply go back to the store and tell them you are entitled to the same warranty they gave during its 1st year. They will, and do, take that to heart and comply. There's really no point in requesting Apple to change their advertisement 'strategy'.

You're both right and wrong at the same time. Apple does need to advertise this simply because people for the most part have no clue. I was in a shop watching a guy buy Apple Care totally unaware that the did not need it for the first two years of his device life-cycle. The sales attendant didn't bother to tell him either. I did and it pissed the sales attendant off.

post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

You're both right and wrong at the same time. Apple does need to advertise this simply because people for the most part have no clue. I was in a shop watching a guy buy Apple Care totally unaware that the did not need it for the first two years of his device life-cycle. The sales attendant didn't bother to tell him either. I did and it pissed the sales attendant off.

That's not entirely true. AppleCare covers some things that the manufacturer's warranty and EU Consumer law do not cover. So even if the device is covered under EU Consumer Law for 2 years, it might still be worth having AppleCare.

I'm not defending any act of lying to the customer, but don't assume that 2 years of EU Consumer Law coverage means you don't need AppleCare. Similarly, don't assume that 1 year of Manufacturer's warranty means you don't need AppleCare. See the chart above.
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post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

I think that Vivian doesn't really know what she's talking about.
Looks more as she's paid by someone to fight against Apple.
In the second year of common guarantee you must prove that the product already had a problem when you bought it.
With Apple Care you just explain your problem.
And if they can't fix it by phone you'll get a new one.
Just try it with a Samsung or any other product or company.
Apple Care is much much more than the standard guarantee.

 

Not so. In Europe the customers contract is with the retailer, the retailer has a duty to supply goods "of merchantable quality" that are "fit for the purpose". In the UK this is judged by the court and a small claim action can be instituted for £10 ($16). The average life expectancy of consumer electronics as determined by the courts averages in excess of 30 months. Apple is far from the only company that tries to enforce the mythical one year warranty, it is the standard response from stores and call centers, referring to the supervisor or store manager is required to get the correct response. Of course is a product has been damaged, abused etc the retailer is not liable. A court will take numerous factors in to consideration, was it a premium priced product or a 'disposable' product, was it in a sale, was it discounted, how did the retailer advertise the product. The claimant will be questioned about its use, the retailer will be able to examine the goods and make their arguments. IMO a mandatory two year period is bad for all concerned, all goods are not equal, there is cheap shit out there, there are quality made goods too. Expecting a $200 Android tablet to last as well as an iPad is being at the minimum optimistic, it is precisely this kind of variable that a court can make a judgment on.


I was always amazed at how in the US where the "customer is king" customers put up with stuff like having a product fail after a few months and have to deal with the manufacturer because the retailer claims it's not their responsibility to ensure the goods that they sell are fit for the advertised purpose.

post #35 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

I think that Vivian doesn't really know what she's talking about.

I think YOU don't know what you're talking about. For reference, you are talking about Directive 99/44/EC, which I can pretty much tell that you haven't read, but don't worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

ILooks more as she's paid by someone to fight against Apple.

Do you have evidence of this? If not, then why are you posting it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

IIn the second year of common guarantee you must prove that the product already had a problem when you bought it.

Citation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

IWith Apple Care you just explain your problem.

Same with Directive 99/44/EC. The only requirement is that you report the problem no more than 2 months after detecting it, but I shouldn't be spoiling your humiliation by pointing out facts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

IAnd if they can't fix it by phone you'll get a new one.

Exactly. that's what I'm entitled to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

IJust try it with a Samsung or any other product or company.

I would win, since I know my rights and how to set these things in motion. In fact, I have filed complaints about Apple regarding this issue 4 months ago, when I first noticed their 1-year limited warranty announcements at their website when they are required to advertise two years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Andy View Post

IApple Care is much much more than the standard guarantee.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean people should be purposely deceived about the merits of their standard warranty rights.
post #36 of 40
A month ago my 22 months old iPod Nano had its screen that didn't light up when turned on anymore. I went to the Apple Store in Paris and talked for 40 minutes with a genius that didn't want to replace my iPod, even though I had European law extracts with me that showed that I was right. I was going to sue to the tribunal of commerce, but I called Apple in Ireland first. The first operator said the same thing. I just repeated that it was European law. He put me on wait for ten minutes and put me through with his supervisor. The conversion went like this :
- how can I help you?
- the LCD on my iPod stopped working
- ...... And ?
- I want it replaced.
- ......
- ....?
- checking.... (Long wait)... Ok
And I got a new one. What I don't like is that they probably accepted just because they saw how much stuff I bought from them, and didn't want to lose a good customer. Had someone else called, they maybe would have said no, even if he was in his right. What's cool is that since they accepted once, they'll now have to accept for every product of mine in the future. I just wish they would just start respecting European law and stop making everybody lose so much time.
post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

A month ago my 22 months old iPod Nano had its screen that didn't light up when turned on anymore. I went to the Apple Store in Paris and talked for 40 minutes with a genius that didn't want to replace my iPod, even though I had European law extracts with me that showed that I was right. I was going to sue to the tribunal of commerce, but I called Apple in Ireland first. The first operator said the same thing. I just repeated that it was European law. He put me on wait for ten minutes and put me through with his supervisor. The conversion went like this :
- how can I help you?
- the LCD on my iPod stopped working
- ...... And ?
- I want it replaced.
- ......
- ....?
- checking.... (Long wait)... Ok
And I got a new one. What I don't like is that they probably accepted just because they saw how much stuff I bought from them, and didn't want to lose a good customer. Had someone else called, they maybe would have said no, even if he was in his right. What's cool is that since they accepted once, they'll now have to accept for every product of mine in the future. I just wish they would just start respecting European law and stop making everybody lose so much time.

As I understand the law, you are misrepresenting it - and were lucky to get a new iPod.

My understanding of the law is that after the manufacturer's warranty runs out, but within the 2 year period, it is up to you to prove that the device was defective when delivered to you. That can't be easy for an iPod that you used for 22 months without difficulty.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

As I understand the law, you are misrepresenting it - and were lucky to get a new iPod.

My understanding of the law is that after the manufacturer's warranty runs out, but within the 2 year period, it is up to you to prove that the device was defective when delivered to you. That can't be easy for an iPod that you used for 22 months without difficulty.

As a self proclaimed critical thinker, you should have already figured that the burden of proof lies on Apple's shoulders, not the customer's, because the customer has no way to determine that the product wasn't damaged due to lack of conformity at the time of purchase without disassembling it (thus potentially voiding the warranty).
post #39 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague View Post

I've never owned a Mac yet, but I've had my iPhone 4S replaced in July because the battery was lasting less than 50% the advertised length. That's their stated policy.

Yup, that's a ~defective~ battery not a ~weak~ battery. A weak battery is anything lasting more than 50%, defective is less than 50% or whatever the policy is. I was just clarifying the defective vs weak thing for Apple stuff.
post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You are wrong. Applecare does cover weak batteries.
http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html
"During the plan’s coverage period, Apple will replace the battery if it drops below 50% of its original capacity."
However, this covers only iPhones, iPads, and iPods. It does not cover notebooks.

That's why I say it covers ~defective~ batteries, which is defined as above by Apple. A "weak" battery is not covered if it is not below 50% of its original capacity etc.

So the question is, for EU etc statutory warranties, what is their battery threshold?
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