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Apple reportedly tasks retail employees with highlighting iOS 6 Maps errors - Page 2

post #41 of 62

One gauge I'm using to see how they are responding to problem reports is to visit the Hoover Dam occasionally, in 3D mode. The collapsed highway bridge there got a fair amount of the early press as an illustration of some of the problems in the Map App. As of this morning, it's still sagging like a rubber hose. Perhaps there are more pressing problems with maps, but I would expect them to assign these well publicized glitches a higher priority. 

post #42 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarcoot View Post

No problems here in Maryland with the maps at all for me. The turn by turn works beautifully, and reroutes very well. I miss street views but will use turn by turn more.
I only wish traffic was shown stronger.

Same here in Southern Virginia. Turn by turn is fantastic. I've submitted a couple errors myself. Interface to do so is simple and quick.

I'm sure Apple's maps gets better every day. Be a little patient folks.
post #43 of 62
I suspect that Apple Retail Stores have asked employees to act as ground truth for Apple Maps. Apple asking Apple Retail Store employees to verify user suggested corrections is an excellent idea in the absence of multiple source corroboration. This suggests that the four regions primarily responsible for Apple's success will see the greatest number of corrections.


This would be a highly effective strategy considering that the list of Apple Retail Store locations correlate well with the list of Apple Net Sales by Region.


Number of Apple Stores by Country:

250 Apple Retail Stores in the United States
34 Apple Retail Stores in the United Kingdom
26 Apple Retail Stores in Canada
17 Apple Retail Stores in Australia
13 Apple Retail Stores in France
11 Apple Retail Stores in Italy
10 Apple Retail Stores in Germany
9 Apple Retail Stores in Spain
7 Apple Retail Stores in Japan
5 Apple Retail Stores in China
3 Apple Retail Stores in Switzerland
1 Apple Retail Store in Hong Kong
1 Apple Retail Store in the Netherlands
1 Apple Retail Store in Sweden


List of Apple Net Sales by Region for three months ended 30 June 2012:

Americas 41.4%
Europe 26.6%
Asia/Pacific 25.5%
Japan 6.5%



Additionally, I have an issue with anyone suggesting that Google "has a lot more sources" of data or that Apple can't resolve issues as rapidly.

Apple has sourced both geographic information system (GIS) and points of interest (POI) data from numerous sources.

Furthermore, Apple has seemingly done what many believed impossible. Based on reports of the number of employees Apple has involved in mapping and navigation, Apple has developed a highly automated mapping and navigation solution. If Apple has created a highly automated solution then updating could be as simple as one user suggesting a correction (by simply driving on a road which doesn't currently exist in Apple Maps) and another dozen users corroborating (again by simply driving on the same road) without any manual correction by users or necessarily even input by the Apple GIS team.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 10/3/12 at 10:39am
post #44 of 62
Macbook Pro, interesting post, thanks. So the idea of semi-automated, crowd-sourced mapping, are we looking at something new here?
post #45 of 62
Ive never had a location-based issue that seriously affected me with Apple Maps, but I just had my first Maps problem that truly affected me.

I rely on the traffic data in Google Maps and while not 100% accurate it always gave me a pretty good idea. Apple' traffic seemed comparable though I don't particularly care for how they represent it ... The dotted red line thing is difficult to see safely while driving depending on the zoom level, or even while stopped at a light.

But yesterday, Apple's Maps showed all clear on a freeway that is known to be lightly traveled, but once I got on it, I was trapped in a 5 lane traffic jam with no way to get off. Made me :30 late for an appointment I allowed plenty of time to arrive on time for. Checked Google Maps while I was sitting there fuming, and sure enough, solid red line, for several miles right where I was sitting.

Now how does this happen? Is traffic data just a commodity that Apple subscribes to and funnels into their interface? My understanding was that this data comes largely from GPS enabled cell phones, and is used by TV and radio news shows, to any number of custom websites. So what gives? Why would this not show up on Apple's Maps?

And how do I report this to Apple?

Unfortunately now I will have to double check Apple's Maps with Googles from now on, or at least for events where I cannot afford to be a minute late. And this will make navigating freeways while I'm driving all but impossible.
post #46 of 62

No problems with the maps for me: either on the West Coast mainly in Southern California or around the D.C. to NYC corridor. The faster draw time is very welcome.

 

The addition of turn-by-turn will certainly be useful at some point but I didn't actually miss that flaw in Google either.

 

As to traffic, I'd learned to never trust Google on that in any case so I take any of those indicators with a huge dose of caution. Google in my morning commute especially seemed to have a lag: I'd hit clots not indicated and sail through indicated jams that didn't exist, but I presume had at some time in the past. Often the less accessible local realtime traffic systems have better info I suspect due to a shorter information loop.


Edited by jfc1138 - 10/3/12 at 11:04am
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Macbook Pro, interesting post, thanks. So the idea of semi-automated, crowd-sourced mapping, are we looking at something new here?

No. I don't believe so. I believe Waze uses an automated crowd-sourcing solution as well. The difference is that Waze is only a global positioning system (GPS) offering turn-by-turn navigation while Apple Maps is much more. Although Waze is arguably a much better solution for GPS with turn-by-turn navigation. I stated some time ago that I thought Apple should simply purchase Waze.

The interesting thing is that for many years, many geographic information system (GIS) industry insiders have said that mapping and navigation couldn't be automated. I suspect that this is exactly what Apple has done which would explain the errors as well as the very feature-rich solution Apple created in such a short time with so few employees. Once the various algorithms and data source issues are resolved; however, the solution should be vastly superior to competitor solutions.

If Apple were to purchase Navteq (Nokia Maps), Hop Stop (or NextBus) and Waze, the fight would be over with Apple as the new heavy weight champion of the world. The beauty of Apple's solution is that they can wait one year to see what the best transit and street level imagery apps are on the App Store and simply purchase those companies.



The reason Google pundits went ape$h!7 about Apple Maps is because Google sees the potential of the Apple solution. Map Gate was a paid smear campaign by Google much like Cut-and-Pastegate, Antennagate and Flashgate.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 10/3/12 at 11:32am
post #48 of 62

I've seen the in-app methods of reporting errors, but they seem limited. So far, I have only seen one error in Apple Maps through personal use. I don't see how I can report this to Apple...?

 

FYI, The issue is in Lynnwood, WA at Highway 99 and 148th St SW; when travelling southbound on 99 and trying to get to WA-525 southbound, it directs an illegal u-turn. There is a marked u-turn route to take a left on 148th and then 35th to 99 northbound. I have a hard time critisizing Apple on this, though. Google used to show the same u-turn; now it shows a *different* u-turn that is actually quite dangerous, and requires driving over a concrete island. lol.gif Mapquest shows the same as Apple. Finally, a large number of drivers do the illegal version despite the signage, perhaps following their nav systems?

 

A co-worker was telling me that Google has a web-based interface that allows the public to suggest changes to their mapping data. He personally added identification to our work buildings, which showed up on the maps within a few days. It would be nice if Apple had the same...?

 

I'm actually impressed by the 3D modeling of the residential suburbs in this area. Our house, with a non-trivial shape and many nearby trees, is beatiful in 3D!  :)

post #49 of 62

I think there are many misconceptions when it comes to maps. I don't everything about it but I do know that many of the complaints are pointing to different aspects of the system.  As far as inaccurate roads and landmarks etc are concerned, that's the responsibility of the map provider TomTom, in the U.S. for example, to make sure that their data is daily up to date. In addition to many of their POIs.  What I don't understand is why Apple is having such a difficult time integrating the data? I think that's something they can fix relatively quickly and why the team is in lockdown.  They can at least get the software as accurate as what TomTom's GPSs are (fairly accurate as you don't really hear of any complaints about TomTom's GPS being bad) in routing directions.

 

What I think most people complain about are the POI information being missing or inaccurate which would take more time to address. I think that's the part where Tim and the team asked for more patience and feedback to fix. Apple needs to purchase more sources and corroborate the data to make sure that it's more accurate.  They can also employ things like Amazon's Mechanical Turk. But I think there are enough sources like YellowPages, Foursquare, etc to go to to buy POI data. I think this will likely take a year or so before it can be robust enough to please most people as the data has to be cross-referenced for accuracy. And there's a lot of POI data.

 
 
post #50 of 62
1) What are the licensing with Waze if they aren't getting updated info directly from them?

2) I've used Maps several times in the last couple days and it's been flawless and fast on the 5. The UI is great in that it's not too cluttered but still very useful. No ads or pointless POIs. Also, if you make a call after starting a route it will still be able to directly as you expect even if you don't have SV&D, which i don't on Verizon (I miss that feature). They still screwed the pooch by over promising and under developing which is making news sites and consumers ignore what is great, but I hope realize there is a huge amount of potential with Apple Maps even if they did stumble with the introduction.

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post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Why don't just copy the Google Maps??? Just look at Google Maps, and copy all Points of interest from there! By the way, in my city, the capital of a European country there are no Points of interest, absolutly none. Google Maps is full of Points of interest. So, where do I report this tiny "error"?

Can you believe Disneyland isn't even on the map in Hong Kong. No universities. No shopping malls. Nothing. It's completely unacceptable.

So how do you add this info to Apple Maps? How do I add points of interest and building outlines?
post #52 of 62
To respond to my own post, it seems Apple compiles all its maps info from multiple sources. One o those sources (a major one, I presume) is OSM. I checked the OSM data for HK and they do have all the points of interest an even building outlines! So obviously, Apple is not using this data. Are they licensed to use all OSM data and have simply not used POI and building data, or are they only allowed to use some of the data, like streets and highways? If it's the former, then why? If it's the latter then why? Whatever the reason, it seems ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Why don't just copy the Google Maps??? Just look at Google Maps, and copy all Points of interest from there! By the way, in my city, the capital of a European country there are no Points of interest, absolutly none. Google Maps is full of Points of interest. So, where do I report this tiny "error"?

Can you believe Disneyland isn't even on the map in Hong Kong. No universities. No shopping malls. Nothing. It's completely unacceptable.

So how do you add this info to Apple Maps? How do I add points of interest and building outlines?
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

To respond to my own post, it seems Apple compiles all its maps info from multiple sources. One o those sources (a major one, I presume) is OSM. I checked the OSM data for HK and they do have all the points of interest an even building outlines! So obviously, Apple is not using this data. Are they licensed to use all OSM data and have simply not used POI and building data, or are they only allowed to use some of the data, like streets and highways? If it's the former, then why? If it's the latter then why? Whatever the reason, it seems ridiculous.

You look at the dozen+ companies they use they certainly don't use all the data these companies have or they are implementing it very slowly. I can't quite figure out what is going on.

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post #54 of 62
The biggest fail here in Hong Kong is that three out of four residences and one out of ten businesses are in a high rise housing estate or shopping center, and have no numerical street address. The address I was just looking for, for instance was this:

Rm 309-314, Ching Kwai House
Cheung Ching Estate
Tsing Yi, New Territories

There is 100% no way to find that destination using Apple maps without searching for more info in Safari.

Fail.
post #55 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Can you believe Disneyland isn't even on the map in Hong Kong. No universities. No shopping malls. Nothing. It's completely unacceptable.
So how do you add this info to Apple Maps? How do I add points of interest and building outlines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

To respond to my own post, it seems Apple compiles all its maps info from multiple sources. One o those sources (a major one, I presume) is OSM. I checked the OSM data for HK and they do have all the points of interest an even building outlines! So obviously, Apple is not using this data. Are they licensed to use all OSM data and have simply not used POI and building data, or are they only allowed to use some of the data, like streets and highways? If it's the former, then why? If it's the latter then why? Whatever the reason, it seems ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The biggest fail here in Hong Kong is that three out of four residences and one out of ten businesses are in a high rise housing estate or shopping center, and have no numerical street address. The address I was just looking for, for instance was this:
Rm 309-314, Ching Kwai House
Cheung Ching Estate
Tsing Yi, New Territories
There is 100% no way to find that destination using Apple maps without searching for more info in Safari.
Fail.


You are far too emotionally invested in Google Maps which is a horrible solution.

Apple probably omitted data to avoid the visual assault approach of Google Maps.

I was able to view Apple Maps and find the following types of Points of Interest:
Hotels and Hostels
Libraries
Medical Facilities (hospitals and physician's offices)
Museums
Police Stations
Parking Lots
Parks and Gardens
Schools and Universities
Transit Hubs


I was further able to find Disneyland, McDonald's and Starbucks upon searching.


Apple Maps provides a clean, concise view of geographic data rather than offering every possible street name at many view levels. For example, Apple Maps offers district names in San Francisco with major street names. Upon zooming in for further detail more information (street names, points of interest) are offered as appropriate. Apple Maps already has more business listings than Google. The difference is that businesses don't overwhelm the Apple Maps app as in Google Maps for iOS. Apple Maps has many, many business listings but Apple Maps isn't an advertising platform which is the major philosophical difference between the two platforms.

Google Maps flashes the traffic data every few seconds making the solution untenable for many users. Furthermore, in highly congested regions that traffic data is unhelpful due to a lack of filtering. For example, San Francisco traffic is nearly always congested so providing yellow and red traffic indicators on every single street is not helpful in the least. A much better option is to demonstrate major delays in such a region as Apple Maps appears to do.


Does Apple Maps need additional effort? Absolutely but some users must realize that Apple Maps isn't trying to be Google Maps nor should Apple try to emulate Google.
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

The Maps database will likely not be updated on the Fly, each and every time they fix a single address.

This is the sort of database that will only get updated once a month (or every couple of months), due to the massiveness of it, and the fragility of databases in general.

I would look for updates at each Apple event throughout the year -- they will likely even announce them as they are released (particularly while they sort out some of the glaring issues).

 

Databases are fragile and can only be updated once a month? And apple is going to announce every time they update the database?

 

Comedy gold.

 

You're right that the database is massive, but that is not the hurdle here. The hold-up is the fact that every reported error must be reviewed and acted upon by a human. It will take a while for Apple to figure out the optimal company structure and procedures for handling that process. Once Apple has the process ironed out, it is likely that corrections and additions will be pushed to the server farm(s) on a daily basis.

post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Disneyland...

I think you're lying, or at least exaggerating by ignoring the fact that you had to look up a street address first (on safari) to get maps to locate hong kong disneyland. Exactly what search criteria did you use?

Hong Kong Disneyland
HK Disneyland
Disney Hong Kong
Disney HK
Hong Kong Disneyland Resort (the official park name)

All returned an error, with no results.

Just "Disneyland" sent me across the Pacific to Anaheim.
post #58 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I think you're lying, or at least exaggerating by ignoring the fact that you had to look up a street address first (on safari) to get maps to locate hong kong disneyland. Exactly what search criteria did you use?
Hong Kong Disneyland
HK Disneyland
Disney Hong Kong
Disney HK
Hong Kong Disneyland Resort (the official park name)
All returned an error, with no results.
Just "Disneyland" sent me across the Pacific to Anaheim.


No. I had Apple Maps set on the region surrounding Hong Kong Disneyland and simply typed "Disneyland" in the search field. Voila! Not difficult at all.

You can say whatever you want but others can verify the information for themselves. I also demonstrated that you are misleading by stating that there are no Points of Interest for Hong Kong when, in fact, there are many.
post #59 of 62

Parking lots and Hotels. The occasional doctor's office and hospital. I see nothing else. No Starbucks. No shopping malls. Perhaps that information comes from a service that's restricted here.

 

I am in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong. I type Disneyland, I get Anaheim. I put Maps on Lantau, type Disneyland, I get Anaheim. I still don't believe you with regard to Disneyland, when the fact is that I'm here, and for me it doesn't work the way you say it does. Or maybe, as some people are reporting, different people are getting different results based on criteria we're not yet aware of. Perhaps whatever service Apple partners with that gives you Disneyland in Hong Kong is a US only (or wherever you are) service. The fact that it doesn't work IN Hong Kong makes it useless for anyone who actually... you know... needs it here.

post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Parking lots and Hotels. The occasional doctor's office and hospital. I see nothing else. No Starbucks. No shopping malls. Perhaps that information comes from a service that's restricted here.

I am in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong. I type Disneyland, I get Anaheim. I put Maps on Lantau, type Disneyland, I get Anaheim. I still don't believe you with regard to Disneyland, when the fact is that I'm here, and for me it doesn't work the way you say it does. Or maybe, as some people are reporting, different people are getting different results based on criteria we're not yet aware of. Perhaps whatever service Apple partners with that gives you Disneyland in Hong Kong is a US only (or wherever you are) service. The fact that it doesn't work IN Hong Kong makes it useless for anyone who actually... you know... needs it here.

You haven't convinced me. You are clearly biased, "the occasional doctor's office and hospital" is obviously a ploy since the absurdity of the statement is manifest to anyone who looks for themselves. As stated previously, I was able to find all the following:
Hotels and Hostels (abundant hotels)
Libraries
Medical Facilities (hospitals and physician's offices) (abundant medical facilities)
Museums (Hong Kong Space Museum, Hong Kong Museum of Art, etc.)
Police Stations
Parking Lots
Parks and Gardens
Schools and Universities
Transit Hubs

I was even able to find places to shop although not many at all (Temple Street Night Market,

Furthermore, I was able to find McDonald's and Starbucks upon searching. You seem to have difficulty accepting that Apple Maps is not Google Maps nor should it be. Google Maps is grossly flawed at the fundamental concept level.

Interestingly, I admittedly can't find Hong Kong Disneyland at all today. I wonder if this is an algorithm change or caching issue.








Edited by MacBook Pro - 10/6/12 at 1:07pm
post #61 of 62
I get you. I don't deny that vector maps are superior. But that doesn't help, and Starbucks doesn't help, when I want walking directions from Nam Cheong Station to Dragon Centre. It doesn't help find the school I need to go to on Tsing Yi. It doesn't help find the walking route from Sok Kwu Wan to Turtle Bay.

But I'm sure it will improve. Until it does, I'll have to keep using Google Maps, unfortunately.

By the way, why don't you check how many of those Hard Rocks actually exist. When more than half of what you find in a search is long outdated information, there's no way you can trust any search results.

And there are between 200 and 250 McDonalds restaurants in Hong Kong. Not nine. Can you honestly claim that's useful information?
Edited by tonton - 10/7/12 at 1:31am
post #62 of 62
Originally Posted by tonton View Post
Can you honestly claim that's useful information?

 

At this zoom level, yes. I'm glad that it doesn't show 200 pins at once unless they fit properly on the screen. Stores fade in and out depending on how far in you're zoomed, and with thousands of labeled stores in even a small US city, I wouldn't want everything to show up pinned at once.

 

I WOULD want everything to BE pinned, and those pins fade in and out with the stores in question as I zoom, but I don't think it does that (or if it does, I didn't see it, but I also didn't look specifically for it).

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