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Bob Mansfield stayed at Apple after CEO Tim Cook offered him 'exorbitant' $2M-per-month - Page 2

post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

They're not doing fine, and I don't see how abandoning the video and audio production markets, the CAD market, and other high- and even mid-range stuff by not updating the Mac Pro or the iMac will help the rest of their products 'thrive'. 

 

Do we really want professionals of all fields using PCs and only consumers using Macs?

 

I can't speak for Audio/Video Production Industry, but from the CAD front I can.

 

Seeing as though i'm an AutoCAD user of 23 years, I can say that Mac users and AutoCAD is niche to say the most.  Sure there's Parallels and Boot Camp, but if you're an Architect (i've practiced professionally for 12 years), a Structural, Mechanical, Plumbing, Civil Engineer, Landscape Architect and/or Urban Designer, its very likely you DON"T use a Mac professionally.  I so happen to use Mac's as my home machine and a separate PC laptop for professional uses.

 

As well...I know people in IT and most companies they've worked with have never been ahead of the consumer market when it comes to upgrades.  Not major corporations.  I know people at Anhieser Busch, the Fed and major regional hospitals that say they usually update to previous OS and HW when new one's are announced.  Heck, my friend at the Fed just now got a new laptop with Windows 7, and that was an upgrade from XP...just as Windows announced W8.

post #42 of 60

It's going to take awhile to get Apple back to some sort of balance.  If anybody has seen the flowchart of how Apple works, every division head reported directly to Steve.  Now that he's gone, there is some, well, uneasiness to the process.  Bob has been driven like a racehorse for a long time.  Just look at his picture.  That's after some photoshop work.  He's a father figure to a lot of the engineers, they look up to him and know that he's not going to blow up on you like some other people. He's been with Steve for 12 years! That's quite a long time.  He deserves the money, because who knows how much he's shortened his lifespan to give us some really cool products.

 

As far as the whining goes about Apple products coming out, we don't know who's really in charge.  We do know that Tim Cook has been apologizing and not really looking into why there are so many leaks about future products.  He screwed up in hiring Browett.  He screwed up in not double checking Forestall's projects.  He will screw up again.  He's going to need more time.  Tim is good at supply, real good. He's what helped Apple beat Dell in inventory management.  He's not Steve, no one is.  

 

If you are pissed that Apple is not getting it done with upgrades and not doing the right thing and getting a decent Mac Pro out the door, get used to it.  It's going to take an ass beating on Apple for them to change.  It's coming, but not soon enough. 

post #43 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

hi bob, you didn't really want to retire

here's a few barrels of thousand dollar bills for you. come back next month for more

Mansfield retired as the SVP. For all we know (not rumor or speculate) he never said he wanted to retire from Apple, just that position. Nice guy probably has kids or grand kids, perhaps both. Maybe wants to have more time to spend with them after putting in 14 hour days, etc. so Tim says no problem, we'll down grade you but you'll still be an employee etc. Same as what they would have likely done with Steve had he not taken a turn for the much worse but wanted to reduce his official reaoonsibliities.
post #44 of 60
We already know the Mac Pro is coming next year. What if they decided the iMac and Mac Mini are fine as they see them currently using Sandy Bridge parts. I know my mid-2011 Mini w/the 6630 video card is doing just fine. Granted the roughest games I'm tossing at it are World of Warcraft and Diablo 3, but with my gaming and video conversion and what not, it certainly does everything I need.

Maybe they decided since it was already getting late in the summer that they would rather focus on other products and have bigger plans for them that tie in with Haswell. I think the other article today about Apple ditching Intel is certainly premature. AMD's processors are not the equal of Intel's and they certainly aren't as power efficient.

I still think we could see the Mini and iMac updated this year, but if it happens it will be one of the Tuesday morning the Store goes down and comes back up w/new products kind of rollouts. I don't actually expect majorchanges to the Mini as it seems to be as small as it can get at the moment. Haswell may allow them to produce a Mini that has the same level of pwower (or better) than the model I am using right now. Imagine a completely fanless Mini. The only time I hear mine is when I'm playing WoW or I'm converting video. It will get reasonably loud during WoW, but still quieter than my old PC.
post #45 of 60
If 2nd rate celebrities are getting paid 18 million for one season of reality music competition shows that require no thinking, and hardly close to a full year of work...

Then Bobby boy is worth 24 million a year for his efforts
post #46 of 60
Bob Mansfield = Too big to fail
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post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Not sure what's more pathetic, you telling me to grow up, or assessing performance of a product by comparing sales QoQ instead of YoY. You just don't do that, it's not indicative of anything. 

And no, Tim Cook isn't infallible, and you know damn well I wasn't implying he was. What I was saying was how ridiculous it is for you to bash him over a decision in which you're completely unaware of the internal factors and dynamics at play. You're not educated in the least about the environment in which that decision was made, so why state as a fact that it was the wrong call? It's something you do over and over again- about everything. I don't need to believe that Cook is infallible, for me to believe that he's in a much better position to make an educated, correct call on retaining talent than someone like you, who at the best of times has only bits and pieces of rumors with which to guide your opinions, instead of the entire picture, with the real facts, in crystal clarity that Tim Cook can see. Isn't that a reasonable asessment? Not that difficult of a concept, yet you always act purposely obtuse when you refuse to aknowledge someone's point. 

Good reply and I agree, armchair CEOs, always think, they can do better or can provide better decisions to environments, these people have never experienced.
post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Nothing more rich that Tallest Skil condascendingly giving Tim Cook advice.

I do it all the time: Get rid of John Browett, Tim. He's bad for Apple.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

[....]  He deserves the money, because who knows how much he's shortened his lifespan to give us some really cool products.

 

As far as the whining goes about Apple products coming out, we don't know who's really in charge.  We do know that Tim Cook has been apologizing and not really looking into why there are so many leaks about future products.  He screwed up in hiring Browett.  He screwed up in not double checking Forestall's projects.  He will screw up again.  He's going to need more time.  Tim is good at supply, real good. He's what helped Apple beat Dell in inventory management.  He's not Steve, no one is.  

 

If you are pissed that Apple is not getting it done with upgrades and not doing the right thing and getting a decent Mac Pro out the door, get used to it.  It's going to take an ass beating on Apple for them to change.  It's coming, but not soon enough. 

at some point in your career, money does not buy you lifespan, or any relief of lack of it.   I can't see how a few million (if you've been at apple since '99 and an SVP, 24M/yr may well be not much more than his dividends of all the stock he owns) would sway him back.  

 

 

Either Loyalty to Tim (as part of that small inner circle that made the tough decisions and delivered and pulled Apple back from the brink)  or Loyalty to his  old team of engineers, and at this point, it sounds like his team, and thus that was his 'special project' (keep his team happy).  

 

the 24Million was just a thank you note from Tim...  

 

As for Tim vs the 'former management style,'  no Tim's not that guy.   I don't think there will be another in 15 years.   As for the Ass Beating, it's bound to happen.  There is only one place to go once your King of the Mountain. 

 

The mac pro, ivy bridge, apple store faux pas's are just the sh*t that happens when you're so big, people can't help but notice your little stumbles.  at $80Billion pushing a phone/ipod to market without any ability to load apps on it... small blunder.  Today, having a supplier constrain sales to only 125% of last years sales is considered a 'Short AAPL they're doomed' offense.  

 

The bigger issue is who is walking into the meetings with TV producers, Chip makers, search companies,  and book companies and saying, "you can join us or you can die trying to either copy us or building your own" and able to make the other guys blink.   We need that [wo]man to step up and take ownership of Apple's strategic future.   That's not Bob, not Tim, not Phil, not "I'm a Genius" guy.  

post #50 of 60
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
I do it all the time: Get rid of John Browett, Tim. He's bad for Apple.

 

"You don't know anything about what you're saying. How could you possibly know what is best for Apple, and who cares about what you think because your opinion doesn't matter anyway?" lol.gif

Originally Posted by asdasd

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Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Indeed.  A small delay in the updating of a popular computer line is hardly in the same league as most things one would want to label "travesties." 

No it certainly isn't a travesty.

 

However, a small delay is not what is happening to Apple's desktop computers. Back when the iMac mattered to Apple it was updated every 9 months or so, even when there was no significant new technology to put in it. Apple updated it because it told potential customers that they were important, that Apple cared about them.

 

The Mac mini has not been updated in a 14 months. The iMac hasn't been updated in 17 months and the Mac Pro hasn't received a meaningful update in 26 months.

 

None of those machines have USB 3.0 because they aren't running the current generation of Intel chips (released in mass quantity 6 months ago).

All current desktop Macs are still capable of booting Snow Leopard. Never before in Apple history have they sold new hardware that's compatible with a two versions old operating system.

 

Cue the conspiracy theories:

Apple is trying to prevent their users from adopting USB 3.0 (but if that were true they'd have withheld it from the better selling notebooks)

Apple is trying to appease some large customer that still uses PowerPC code (but Apple has no trouble telling laggards to get with the program)

There's some major crisis within Apple HW development (the un-retiring of Bob Mansfield does give this idea some support)

Apple is so focused on the mobile computing future that they don't care about the dinosaurs still using desktops (BINGO!)

 

It doesn't matter how many dinosaurs stand up and say they'll abandon the platform if Apple doesn't appease them soon. In fact the more of us that do leave, the faster they'll be able to phase out the manufacture of all desktops. Complaining won't do us any good at all. They don't even care if that means we stop buying iPhones and iPads because for each of us there are a dozen who have yet to buy their first iGadget.

post #52 of 60
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

…the faster they'll be able to phase out the manufacture of all desktops.

 

Everything you list points toward 'problem', so I don't know why you're not agreeing with me. PARTICULARLY this, which is the first step toward complete dismissal of Apple's remaining products as inviable. 

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #53 of 60

Without Steve at the helm, it's douchebags gone wild!

post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

at some point in your career, money does not buy you lifespan, or any relief of lack of it.   I can't see how a few million (if you've been at apple since '99 and an SVP, 24M/yr may well be not much more than his dividends of all the stock he owns) would sway him back.  

 

It's not about the money Geoff, it's watching something you have spent a good portion of your life building starting to go south.  Bob doesn't want to see that happen.  He wants to leave the company with people he knows he can trust to carry on without him.  Just read the reviews engineers have left on Glassdoor.com, and you will see that the middle managers are the ones who are f'n up.

 

Either Loyalty to Tim (as part of that small inner circle that made the tough decisions and delivered and pulled Apple back from the brink)  or Loyalty to his  old team of engineers, and at this point, it sounds like his team, and thus that was his 'special project' (keep his team happy).  

 

the 24Million was just a thank you note from Tim...  

 

As for Tim vs the 'former management style,'  no Tim's not that guy.   I don't think there will be another in 15 years.   As for the Ass Beating, it's bound to happen.  There is only one place to go once your King of the Mountain. 

 

You are too optimistic if you think it will happen in 15 years.  As far as the beating goes, that all depends on whether or not other companies can get their sh*t together. 

 

The mac pro, ivy bridge, apple store faux pas's are just the sh*t that happens when you're so big, people can't help but notice your little stumbles.  at $80Billion pushing a phone/ipod to market without any ability to load apps on it... small blunder.  Today, having a supplier constrain sales to only 125% of last years sales is considered a 'Short AAPL they're doomed' offense.  

 

The problem is that you can't scale supplies so well when secrecy is the top priority. Lately, secrecy isn't as good as it used to be.  Nobody was suprised when the iPhone 5 came out.

 

The bigger issue is who is walking into the meetings with TV producers, Chip makers, search companies,  and book companies and saying, "you can join us or you can die trying to either copy us or building your own" and able to make the other guys blink.   We need that [wo]man to step up and take ownership of Apple's strategic future.   That's not Bob, not Tim, not Phil, not "I'm a Genius" guy.

 

At the time that Steve did that, there wasn't any other infastructure that was available that was a viable option.  Now, there are more ways to do that.  Add to the fact that the whole recording industry blames Steve Jobs and Apple for the position that they are in.  Not that they couldn't engineer themselves out of a paper bag, but that Apple has taken all of the profits and left them nothing, which is horsesh*t.  The TV networks, are arrogant and paranoid that they have to control the distribution of their content.  So if your hoping for an actual TV that is made by Apple, it's not going to happen for awhile, if ever.  Search companies are something Apple could care less about.  Book companies, well, some of those blinked, settled with the government and threw Apple under the bus.

 

There isn't going to be someone who can do all those things.  There might be three or four, but not one.   

 

Please forgive me if this reply looks like crap, I never got the hang of multi quote replies.

post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Hmm...makes me wonder if Riccio is up to the job. I imagine it was more than one or two disgruntled employees for Cook to offer Mansfield a shitlod of money to stay on.

 

 

"We're not doing it for the money.  We're doing it for a shitload of money!"----Lonestar (Spaceballs)

post #56 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicComposer View Post

John C. Reilly works at Apple?

 

I was thinking more Chris Farhley's brother, but I see where you were going with that.

post #57 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

Apple might be making a ton more money and be different than most companies to a certain extent. But it will never be the same without S. Jobs.
It will seem like its coasting along fine with the iPhones and iPads for a few more years (5 or 6). And people around the globe will marvel at the new Headquarters when its finished. But the new products that need to come out, to make Apple the innovator that it has proved to be will suffer.
There will be the butting of heads as far as where they want to direct their talents. How much change they will be willing to make in the different fields they want to 'attempt' to take over. It will not be a given. Things will tighten up as far as what they might think they can conquer again.
The iPhone makes a big chunk of money for them, it also shows off their superior foundation to make possible the continued improvement for upgrades.
But that can only survive with the carriers funding the profits needed for the company to remain as the most richest in the world. It will be interesting to see how long China Mobile (whenever they come on board) will pay for the subsidies. You know very well that Verizon and ATT are having secret meetings somewhere about what to do exactly about that. Exxon and several other companies will probably overtake them by then.
But, that is not the most important thing. Once the new attempt at a different field starts to show that it is not as easy to conquer. Like what has happened with the A TV,
and perhaps even what is happening with the Car integration system. You keep hearing about them, but nothing seems to appear in the horizon. Right now, if iTunes was not as appealing, or better yet as all consuming and as simple to use, more people would be trying out Android then are already doing.
Guess what I am I am trying to say. That without a personality like Steve Jobs. But also with the all powerful position that he had. The letting all others know that they would attack the market with an item like the iPod. You have to believe that when the Bob Manfields, the Scott Forstalds, and even the Jonny Ives, were perhaps to impressed with that idea (or perhaps some were). But you cannot fully appreciate how much that power to make that decision, and have the whole ship follow that direction, makes it possible for good things happen. But also the humongous possibility that a certain 'hail mary' decision might NOT be the right decision.
WHO WILL MAKE THAT CALL WHEN IT COMES UP?
(just wondering)

 

 

You could be right, who knows?  I am not sure if you are referring to the "Apple TV set" or the ATV as it exists today, but if it was the former than I would say that the tech pundits are the ones that keep hawking that rumor every time you turn around.  I look at these as growing pains for Cook into the CEO role to an extent.  I don't agree with how he handled that apology for the maps thing, but that is my opinion only.  Even while Cook was running things in the background during Jobs's medical absences, he didn't have to handle the press and worry about the image of Apple, as Jobs was still the focus until he passed last year.  Apple could turn out like you say, but it could just as easily be different, time will tell.  Jobs had a few missteps along the way, and Apple did just fine.  In my opinion, Apple will continue to do well with new products in the future, but has lost a little of the Jobs mystique.  I also think Jobs took too much credit for all of the hits Apple had, while the designers (except Jony) and engineers were overshadowed.  They still have great designers and engineering talent, which I believe will carry them into the future, but they are not above having some gaffes here and there.  Examine their recent "slips" and really look to see just how critical were they really?  There are always some people that have issues but out of the millions of customers, just how many people were actually effected?  Overall, I think Apple has been solid.

post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

No it certainly isn't a travesty.

 

However, a small delay is not what is happening to Apple's desktop computers. Back when the iMac mattered to Apple it was updated every 9 months or so, even when there was no significant new technology to put in it. Apple updated it because it told potential customers that they were important, that Apple cared about them.

 

The Mac mini has not been updated in a 14 months. The iMac hasn't been updated in 17 months and the Mac Pro hasn't received a meaningful update in 26 months.

 

None of those machines have USB 3.0 because they aren't running the current generation of Intel chips (released in mass quantity 6 months ago).

All current desktop Macs are still capable of booting Snow Leopard. Never before in Apple history have they sold new hardware that's compatible with a two versions old operating system.

 

Cue the conspiracy theories:

Apple is trying to prevent their users from adopting USB 3.0 (but if that were true they'd have withheld it from the better selling notebooks)

Apple is trying to appease some large customer that still uses PowerPC code (but Apple has no trouble telling laggards to get with the program)

There's some major crisis within Apple HW development (the un-retiring of Bob Mansfield does give this idea some support)

Apple is so focused on the mobile computing future that they don't care about the dinosaurs still using desktops (BINGO!)

 

It doesn't matter how many dinosaurs stand up and say they'll abandon the platform if Apple doesn't appease them soon. In fact the more of us that do leave, the faster they'll be able to phase out the manufacture of all desktops. Complaining won't do us any good at all. They don't even care if that means we stop buying iPhones and iPads because for each of us there are a dozen who have yet to buy their first iGadget.

 

Regarding the iMac situation, are people more upset about the lack of USB3 or the Ivy Bridge chips themselves?  If it is the Ivy Bridge chips, I thought their main appeal was lower power consumption, not necessarily more processing power.  If that is true, then it would make more sense for the notebook line.  Maybe Apple is skipping this generation of Intel chips for the desktop because the next generation will offer more processing power on top of the lower power consumption.  They could also be planning a major redesign as well.   Just supposition on my part though.  

post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyzlmt View Post


If 2nd rate celebrities are getting paid 18 million for one season of reality music competition shows that require no thinking, and hardly close to a full year of work...
Then Bobby boy is worth 24 million a year for his efforts

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

... Oh, guess they didn't last quarter. But I don't think an increase of 3k units, particularly when they DID go down just this year's first quarter, isn't very helpful.

 

 

Although, as pointed out by others, this isn't a valid comparison of data, it should also be pointed out that Apple's Q1 2012 was Oct., Nov., Dec. 2011. So the Q1 numbers you are showing are essentially for last year's holiday season. It would have been quite surprising if the Q2 & Q3 results were not lower.

 

In other words, this isn't actually showing anything meaningful, or to your point.

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