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Foxconn workers reportedly strike over iPhone 5 quality control rules, say handset design is flawed - Page 3

post #81 of 142
10/5/12 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

It's the PAINT chipping. Not the actual materials.
The real problem is indeed a design one. but not in terms of the core industrial design itself.
I'd wager that almost all "scuffed" iPhones are the black models.
The reason is a simple one. the metal is PAINTED.
And that is a rather horrible way to dress it up.
In fact, you could argue that the phone would even look better with the bare metal showing through.
At the least, they could have used a better coating.
I do feel for the Foxconn workers. They slave away trying to earn a living, being trained for one contract, then retrained for another, and again and again.
In fact, these folks building the iPhone ARE the same people building the junky Android stuff. But Apple requires more (as they should) quality and care. However, the Foxconn management needs to agree to better training for their workers. that seems to be what was requested. and that seems reasonable.
People can only take so much.
Hopefully, the iPhone 5s or iPhone 6 goes back to native material appearance. It has been a hallmark of Apple for a long time.
Painting metal is just sad. I wonder who conned Ive into having it done.

Stop spouting utter nonsense.
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post #82 of 142
10/5/12 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc54 View Post

/s=Sarcasm


Actually, /s = end of sarcasm.
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post #83 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:15pm
Late word out of China today is that one of the factory workers, Ji Ma Ho Fah, has decided to organize a workers union at the the FoxConn factory.
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post #84 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

I really dislike your waywards ways, Apple][. Because you were born in a rich country and you're an Apple Stock Owner, you make horrible, inhuman statements regularly.
I don't know the situation there. Probably, Apple has ensured that the best possible work conditions exist for workers and this is just journalistic exaggeration.
However "If they don't like it, then they can quit. They are assembling Apple products, not cheap, Android junk, and they are expected to meet certain quality control demands. Those workers who are not up to par should immediately be fired and replaced with more capable workers." is the just the type of phrase that let me seriously wish the government would make a nice little law to strip you of everything you own (or even better, some big business ruin you, swindle you of your "hard earned" money [note that I have no idea if you worked hard, or not, and I'm not judging that part] without you having the slightest chance to save yourself, otherwise it would be to easy...). Or in an ideal world, you should be teleported into the body of one of these workers.
But then again, you're the very proof that this world is imperfect. If at least they'd lock you up in a room with only Nokia Winphones for all eternity...

I agree with you, but keep in mind that he's acting, not really that ignorant and pigheaded. (Sorry, pigs, I should say boneheaded.)

As his fellow troll-for-hire ConradJoe pointed out a long time ago, he's paid to poke holes here in the common perception that Apple people are enlightened progressives. (Some are, some aren't.) His job is to stink up the discussion whenever a political or social issue comes up and make sure the lowest redneck/peckerwood view gets presented.

How do I know this? I've been in the U.S. a long time, paying attention to what people say and how they say it. I have never met anyone in the U.S. who is this violently bigoted who could spell correctly, which he does. He's a lot smarter than he pretends to be, in other words. He is a stylistic impossibility. Hunter Thompson would see right through him. So would Thomas Pynchon.

So don't judge Americans by this level of ignorance. It ain't real. We can't be so bad that it would show up on the best Apple fan site. Maybe at the Legion hall, but not here.
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post #85 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


I agree with you, but keep in mind that he's acting, not really that ignorant and pigheaded. (Sorry, pigs, I should say boneheaded.)
As his fellow troll-for-hire ConradJoe pointed out a long time ago, he's paid to poke holes here in the common perception that Apple people are enlightened progressives. (Some are, some aren't.) His job is to stink up the discussion whenever a political or social issue comes up and make sure the lowest redneck/peckerwood view gets presented.
How do I know this? I've been in the U.S. a long time, paying attention to what people say and how they say it. I have never met anyone in the U.S. who is this violently bigoted who could spell correctly, which he does. He's a lot smarter than he pretends to be, in other words. He is a stylistic impossibility. Hunter Thompson would see right through him. So would Thomas Pynchon.
So don't judge Americans by this level of ignorance. It ain't real. We can't be so bad that it would show up on the best Apple fan site. Maybe at the Legion hall, but not here.

 

"enlightened progressives" is an oxymoron...

 

thanks for living in the USA for a long time and passing judgement on others.  the line about "I have not met anyone in the US who is the violently bigoted who could spell correctly"   made me fall out of my chair laughing.  omnipotent are we?   bad spelling = bigot?   

 

There is fear and loathing at the FoxConn factory,  and Hunter Thompson would have thrown up on you and then passed out.  

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post #86 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

"enlightened progressives" is an oxymoron...

thanks for living in the USA for a long time and passing judgement on others.  the line about "I have not met anyone in the US who is the violently bigoted who could spell correctly"   made me fall out of my chair laughing.  omnipotent are we?   bad spelling = bigot?   

There is fear and loathing at the FoxConn factory,  and Hunter Thompson would have thrown up on you and then passed out.  

So you prove my case about the spelling. But you are for real, Apple 2 isn't.
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post #87 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

Well, the "QC" didn't work too well for my phone which had a scratch on the edge coming out of the box. Still, I figured it would get more with age so I didn't care much.

 

Was your iphone delivered to you. Because if it was the issue could be handling by the delivery service. 

 

I'm certain that every iphone 5 is inspected several times before it is boxed to make sure there are no scratches etc. Probably has been that way since day one. Any issue would come after it left the production line. Either the trucks out of Foxconn, the plane from China or FedEX etc being their usual careless selves. 

 

And i'm certainly not going to take the word of a biased group conversing with a known Anti Apple website as proof of anything. 

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post #88 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:52pm
Workers are there to perform a job. Apple or Foxconn is smart enough to train these workers where appropriate. As for Foxconn employees complaint, this is nothing new and just an excuse
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post #89 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:53pm
Workers are there to perform a job. Apple or Foxconn is smart enough to train these workers where appropriate. As for Foxconn employees complaint, this is nothing new and just an excuse
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post #90 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post


They're requesting for training. They don't mind doing the work, but when they're not properly trained and they're returning products back that seem to be in good condition, the other workers get pissed at them because they're adding more work to them.

 

You really think that Apple, with its quality control so high that they have refunded out of warranty repairs for failed hard drives etc would let anyone on a product line without training. That they don't have rules about proper training in their contracts etc. 

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post #91 of 142
10/5/12 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorOO7 View Post

I am taking the side of the Foxconn workers on this one.  First, they are paid shit wages and I don't care that they work and live in China and that's the norm over there.  The profit margins for any iDevice let alone the iPhone are more than sufficient that Apple can and should be paying more given the stringent QC needed.  This of course should mean the QC should be met if you are going to be paid more.

 

This also brings up the fact that this design may not be the best fit for the materials.  Its time to design something that is more fluid and allows for better grip and feel in the hand instead of the hard, cold edges they are so fond of.  Look at the evolution of the iPhone to iPhone 5, From curves to structural aluminum and glass.

 

I happen to like my iP5 64GB Black (Only one itsy bitsy nick on the beveled edge) but if they had not gone anodized aluminum this time around the nicks and chips wouldn't show up on the black model so easily.  This is a design flaw and a let down in the Designed in Cupertino QC.

 

Of course you are taking into account that the cost of living is also way way lower than it is here. 

 

And if you feel the design and materials aren't the best fit, why the heck did you buy it. Let me guess, because it's an iPhone. No wonder folks call Apple buyers iSheep

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post #92 of 142
10/5/12 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtidmore View Post

I suspect that this issue was WELL known by Apple before the first iphone 5 arrived in a customer's hands.  When I picked up my IP5 early on day one at the ATT store, the salesman took mine out of the box and visually inspected it from all angles, particularly the beveled edges.  At the time, I thought he was being conscientious but in hind sight, I now believe that they had been instructed beforehand to do a thorough visual inspection before handing any IP5 to a customer.  I spotted the other ATT salespeople doing the same routine.

 

Those instructions could just as easily have come from claims of scratched glass the last two years. Or issues with folks complaining about other 'damaged' phones that weren't even iPhones. Or just simple paranoia based on their own manager being 'certain' that this iPhone will damage more easily. By inspecting every unit before the customer leaves and on camera they can refuse claims of delivery defect that would force them to swap it themselves as the seller. 

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post #93 of 142
10/5/12 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I'm sure other phones show wear and tear too but the company that makes them isn't named Apple so no one gives a shit. I'll take my chances with the thin and light iPhone 5 over a brick like the Lumia.

 

Ding ding. Other phones have scuffs, sometimes at delivery even. Other software has bugs etc. But those companies don't get the page hits that dropping Apple gets so . . .

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post #94 of 142
10/5/12 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleblack View Post

The first week of October is holiday in China (National Day).  I mostly work with a team in Shanghai, and everyone there was off for at least a week.  Kind of sucks that they would stop anyone from taking the holiday (and probably at short notice), although I'd lay the blame on Foxxconn rather than Apple.

 

There's a very good chance they knew they wouldn't be able to take off this holiday, or at least not the whole week of it, when they signed up for the job. So if they did and they agreed, there should be no fights over it. 

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post #95 of 142
10/5/12 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Lol I Don't know how all those Chinese workers decided at the same time that they lack training. They must live in the "lazy Chinese worker scum" dorm

It is all orchestrated by Google™.
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post #96 of 142
10/5/12 at 7:50pm

Generally, if you have a production process and you are having consistent quality issues - that normally points to a problem in the production process itself (once you get that right, then quality issues should be few and far between).  

 

Workers generally want to do a good job, get paid and have their life.

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post #97 of 142
10/5/12 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

There's a very good chance they knew they wouldn't be able to take off this holiday, or at least not the whole week of it, when they signed up for the job. So if they did and they agreed, there should be no fights over it. 

 

You're thinking like this is the US. In China, those who work there, a lot of them are not well educated, and they have no clue what's the rules when they sign up for the job. Also, you'd be - smoking crack if you think Foxconn will read through the whole 'code-of-conduct' with all the workers and explain to them when the workers sign up for the job. 

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post #98 of 142
10/5/12 at 8:27pm
Damn, i would love to go to China and build my iPhone 5, I AM TIRED OF WAITING FOR IT!!!! I am honestly surprised that Apple did not come across this issue when producing test batches. To fix it they need to put a sticker going around the device like the Apple TV has when you first get it, use it while in production then have it removed carefully and reused it if possible, or just let the customer remove it themselves. Simple as that. Or just paint the phone after you have all the components are in it, use a cover that will be in place for the screen so you dont get paint on it, then once the paint has dried attach the screen and you have yourself an iPhone 5 without any scratches before it leaves Foxconn.
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post #99 of 142
10/5/12 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Was your iphone delivered to you. Because if it was the issue could be handling by the delivery service. 

I'm certain that every iphone 5 is inspected several times before it is boxed to make sure there are no scratches etc. Probably has been that way since day one. Any issue would come after it left the production line. Either the trucks out of Foxconn, the plane from China or FedEX etc being their usual careless selves. 

And i'm certainly not going to take the word of a biased group conversing with a known Anti Apple website as proof of anything. 

Geez, charlie, how is the anodized aluminum going to get scratched inside all that finicky packaging? Impossible.

And this is "a known Anti Apple website"? Has it gotten that bad! as in Gizmodo level?

Finally, why aren't you out in the L.A. traffic this evening? I've been waiting for someone at the Starbucks at Highland and Franklin. He called me over an hour ago, said he was at Santa Monica, the traffic wasn't moving. . .
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post #100 of 142
10/5/12 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Was your iphone delivered to you. Because if it was the issue could be handling by the delivery service.

 

I would respectfully submit that if transportation handling is enough to scratch the finish INSIDE THE PACKAGING, that's a REALLY delicate device.

 

So, either it's not shipping that's causing the damage or the finish is too delicate to be appropriate for the kind of use a cellular phone gets.

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post #101 of 142
10/5/12 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

It's not painted, it's anodized, which is a surface chemical treatment which hardens and colors the Aluminum surface.

 

 

I have lots of anodized items around the house and they don't scratch anywhere NEAR as easily as an iP5.  Either the anodizing process is inferior or the underlying material is too soft.

 

It doesn't matter to me since I have never worried about tools I use every day getting scratched (and I laugh a little every time someone says "Mine is in a case so the surface is pristine -- you can't SEE it, but trust me, if I ever want to take it out of the case and look at it, the finish will be perfect!"), but I was surprised to see how easily surface damage is inflicted.

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post #102 of 142
10/5/12 at 10:01pm

Sweep it under the rug.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #103 of 142
10/5/12 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

You really think that Apple, with its quality control so high that they have refunded out of warranty repairs for failed hard drives etc would let anyone on a product line without training. That they don't have rules about proper training in their contracts etc. 

 

You really think that with the huge demand for the iPhone 5 Foxconn won't cut corners? When you have to meet strict deadlines, it doesn't matter what company it is, or what person is doing it, you WILL cut corners. Unless you're dealing with Robots, you will get people that get overworked, mistakes WILL happen, and all that tension will eventually catch up. Not to mention these people have to live together. I don't know how their dorms are set up, but I assume it's sectioned by the type of job you do. So QQ people live together, and line workers live together. I can already imagine them having dorm wars and hating other workers just because of the dorm they live in. Can you imagine having to live with your co-worker?
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post #104 of 142
10/5/12 at 10:52pm

If there is one company who could actually afford to assemble some Apple products (iMacs and Mac Pro) in the USA, it's Apple.

We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us.- Marshall McLuhan

Join 'The New Middle Class Movement' @ http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ne...45269528896164
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We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us.- Marshall McLuhan

Join 'The New Middle Class Movement' @ http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ne...45269528896164
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post #105 of 142
10/5/12 at 11:04pm

Actually, I probably mislead people when I brought up anodization. I wasn't thinking of the white iPhone (the black one is the only one I've seen and I forgot about the white ones.) Many colors can be anodized, or anodized and dyed. But for pure white they probably need to finish the anodization with a topcoat of white paint and a clear sealer (but I haven't seen it.) The black iPhones appear to be black anodized and sealed (I have seen one of these.)

Whatever the case, I personally am not impressed with the decision to produce anodized aluminum phones.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What is it with people making up shit? The aluminum isn't painted it's anodized. I have a white iPhone 5 and not a scuff or scratch to be found. If you're going to spend hundreds of dollars on a phone treat it with respect. If you want one you can throw around and be careless with then get a plastic android or windows phone.
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post #106 of 142
10/5/12 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post

To which holidays is the article referring?  Chinese people don't celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas to the extent they are in the West, nor are they public holidays.  This makes me doubt the validity of the article in general.  

 

Maybe the holiday they just had from Oct 1-3?  Which would have extended the weekend to 5 days....  In which most Chinese would have been with their families.  

 

Of course they don't celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas.  But they do have their own holidays...  

 

Maybe you guys should at least do a little bit of research on such things, or maybe employ a touch of critical thinking...

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post #107 of 142
10/5/12 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodification View Post

If there is one company who could actually afford to assemble some Apple products (iMacs and Mac Pro) in the USA, it's Apple.

Lenovo (a Chinese company) is building a US factory...  They announced it quite recently.  

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post #108 of 142
10/5/12 at 11:50pm

By the way, this is a huge problem for Foxconn.  Foxconn barely makes any profit on Apple products as is (about 1% margin), and now they've had a riot, a strike, a rash of suicides, a couple explosions, etc..., all connected to the production of Apple products.  There might come a time where Foxconn decides the cost of dealing with Apple isn't worth it...  

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post #109 of 142
10/6/12 at 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

By the way, this is a huge problem for Foxconn.  Foxconn barely makes any profit on Apple products as is (about 1% margin), and now they've had a riot, a strike, a rash of suicides, a couple explosions, etc..., all connected to the production of Apple products.  There might come a time where Foxconn decides the cost of dealing with Apple isn't worth it...  

Foxconn  making more than 1%. Even if figure is 1%, profit for Foxconn is huge. Remember volume is what make it worth while for Foxconn.

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post #110 of 142
10/6/12 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Foxconn  making more than 1%. Even if figure is 1%, profit for Foxconn is huge. Remember volume is what make it worth while for Foxconn.

Which makes it even more worth it to Foxconn management to squeeze as much productivity out of their workers without increasing costs. This has nothing to do with Apple's QC or ethics. It all about the outsourced lowest bidder trying to maximize their profits. I wouldn't be surprised if everything the workers are saying is true. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the media was sensationalizing the whole situation.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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post #111 of 142
10/6/12 at 2:46am
Here's the story according to Foxconn. I hate to say it but I don't trust some of these watchdog groups. I think they have it in for Apple and these days the media is all to willing to hype anything negative about Apple.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/10/06/uk-apple-foxconn-idUKBRE8941JH20121006
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post #112 of 142
10/6/12 at 3:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Here's the story according to Foxconn. I hate to say it but I don't trust some of these watchdog groups. I think they have it in for Apple and these days the media is all to willing to hype anything negative about Apple.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/10/06/uk-apple-foxconn-idUKBRE8941JH20121006

"Foxconn also said that employees who worked over China's National Day break did so voluntarily and were paid three times their usual hourly compensation, as demanded by law."

If I earned so little wouldn't think of going to holidays, anyways.

This kind of article of AI is there for manipulating the stock price of AAPL.

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post #113 of 142
10/6/12 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Here's the story according to Foxconn. I hate to say it but I don't trust some of these watchdog groups. I think they have it in for Apple and these days the media is all to willing to hype anything negative about Apple.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/10/06/uk-apple-foxconn-idUKBRE8941JH20121006


It's clear that the watchdog groups need a watchdog looking over their shoulders. There have been quite a few Apple-bashing stories from groups like Greenpeace and idiots like Mike Daisey that are based on either nothing at all or some trivial issue that they blow up into a major disaster story.

As it is, the people who matter are the employees in China - who line up for these jobs every time Foxconn is hiring. In China, these are among the best jobs available or people wouldn't be lining up to get them.
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post #114 of 142
10/6/12 at 5:56am
These workers would be my hero if they demonstrated against the designed flaw "Purple Haze" when people take pictures.

Yes. All digital cameras have Purple Haze.
Yes. Don't take pictures of the sun.

But iPhone 5 have a design flaw in the camera and Apple won't recognise it since its many billions of dollars cost. This is what's important in Tim Cooks Apple. Release unfinished products to get money.

Steve: Make the greatest products possible. Then make money, to be able to continue making the greatest products possible.

Only Steve's strategy gives Apple "right" to charge a premium for their stuff.

I know of many Apple fans that HATE Apple because of the iPhone 5 design flaw.

The worst case scenario is that Apple today is so big that "Joe Average" are the main customers. Then Apple can ship crappy products and still be big. Just look at Microsoft. They have never done a great product. Just "good enough"/crappy. It didn't matter.

We saw the same with Apple and OSX 10.7. It was the worst OSX version by far. The VIsta of OSX. It didn't matter since "Joe Average" don't know/understand/don't care. (and yes: 10.8 is the greatest version of OSX. So Apple fixed it. 10.7 was horrible)
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post #115 of 142
10/6/12 at 5:58am

These stories always draw some odd posts. There is very little hard information provided. All we know for sure is there is a labor dispute with conflicting claims from different groups.

 

So what is posted? Claims of Apple (and by extension all Apple product owners) being involved in torture and slavery. Other claims of workers just being lazy. I guess it's vaguely entertaining, but not very informative.

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post #116 of 142
10/6/12 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsmOfAm View Post


Colonel Klink of Stalag 15 would never let it happen


actually, he would me saying " HOGANNNN!!!!!! "

ahhhh.... black and white TV... BTW (ack in the day) while watching this show i had no idea what the Nazi's had done. .... ( oh nooo Godwin's Law!!!! LOL)

such a light/dark comedy (even if it was 100% light, and 0% dark... only dark in your mind).
(not sure how it would stand up today, with all the self-serving Politically correct madness of today...)

Tl;DR ...hogan's heros was such a light/ yet "dark" comedy...
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post #117 of 142
10/6/12 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

"enlightened progressives" is an oxymoron...

thanks for living in the USA for a long time and passing judgement on others.  the line about "I have not met anyone in the US who is the violently bigoted who could spell correctly"   made me fall out of my chair laughing.  omnipotent are we?   bad spelling = bigot?   

There is fear and loathing at the FoxConn factory,  and Hunter Thompson would have thrown up on you and then passed out.  

Quote:
"I have not met anyone in the US who is the violently bigoted who could spell correctly"

because all he Associates with are Democrats... Republicans on the other hand.... LOL. /Facetious
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post #118 of 142
10/6/12 at 6:12am

This is merely a case of worker incentive to get the job done.  That's how the Chinese roll.  It reminds me of a story I read where the government expected a certain build number from a plant and management fell short of the number.  Management was taken outside and executed.  Before they were executed, the new management was taken outside to witness the event.  Afterwards, the government told the new management to meet the build number.  They did.

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post #119 of 142
10/6/12 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

These workers would be my hero if they demonstrated against the designed flaw "Purple Haze" when people take pictures.
Yes. All digital cameras have Purple Haze.
Yes. Don't take pictures of the sun.
But iPhone 5 have a design flaw in the camera and Apple won't recognise it since its many billions of dollars cost. This is what's important in Tim Cooks Apple. Release unfinished products to get money.

You have to love the iHaters. "All products do this. It's a fundamental physics issue. It is also easily prevented by simply not taking pictures of the sun. Yet Apple is at fault for releasing a product that does it."

You have to wonder how they can type that garbage without their heads exploding.
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post #120 of 142
10/6/12 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You have to wonder how they can type that garbage without their heads exploding.

Very thick skulls.
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