Mac mini supply drying up, could signal Ivy Bridge update - Page 3

With 256MB of video RAM you might want to rethink that...

I HOPE they finally offer at least 512MB of video RAM, but I'm not holding my breath. It took Apple decades before they started offering decent default amounts of main system memory - VRAM is the last thing they have failed to get sane on.

CPUs - meh - CPU's haven't been an issue for all but the most extreme users for a LONG time now; much to Intel's chagrin. Heck, even with video cards it's just not that big of an issue. I have a two year old Video card with 1GB of VRAM that plays Diablo III perfectly smooth at 2,560x1,600. The days of upgrading computers or even video cards on an annual basis to play the latest games have been gone for some time now for all but the geekiest of the frame rate obsessed.

 

Your first comment still makes no sense whatsoever.  You think someone will buy an iMac and then what, turn it around and buy a 2nd display to actually use?

 

Second comment is just the same smart-ass remark, so I'll ignore it.  You can apparently ignore the reflections, I can't.  Even if they don't bother you, they ARE there, without any question. 

 

Third comment at least makes sense.  Yes, the reflectiveness is getting better with the retina displays.  In fact, the most recent Airs were already a bit better than the MacBook Pro models of a year or two earlier, and the retina is somewhat better than the Airs.  But better does not mean perfect, in fact, it doesn't even mean close to perfect or even great.  And at over $3000.00 for the mid-level retina MBP, that's a very expensive "semi-okay" option.  However, the recent improvements do give me hope that within a couple years that the technology advancements (at commercially viable price points for Apple to actually use) will let me buy another machine from Apple again, rather than a hackintosh, which I really don't want to do.

For the mini? The seriously anemic 256MB of VRAM (even on the highest priced model with discrete graphics) is the biggest negative to the Mini. Especially with graphics intensive software

 

That wasn't your original statement. I have no illusions about the silliness of doing such a thing, as it's about on par with not using a display simply because it's glossy.

 

 

No, it's a completely different statement.

 

And they're there on a matte display, too. If you're shining lights bright enough at your display that you're getting reflections, are you really in the best place to be doing color accurate work (or whatever it is that needs done)? 

 

 

As can be said for matte, so I don't get what the big to-do is about.

Because matte is better, Gosh!

I can't believe you still engage the "matters". It's about as productive as engaging the "truthers" or other conspiracy theory level thinkers.

Having said that, I still prefer picking my own monitor for other reasons - I need to mirror the display in ways that the OS won't often let me. Being able to mirror the raw signal by tapping in between the Mac and display (for presentation software) works 100% of the time whereas software mirroring is often a crap shoot. Sometimes it works flawlessly, other times it's temperamental if not ineffective, often for no apparent reason and always at the worst possible time. If Apple would just offer models with more VRAM the Mini would be more than sufficient for me. Watching presentation software outputting to multiple screens on my current Mini (or late 2008 MacBook Pro that is stuck with 256MB of RAM), the CPU and GPU rarely go above 60% - but I still get occasional stuttering or artifacts. Mainly because the GPU is starved for VRAM and is having to swap from VRAM to system memory, which is thousand of times slower than referencing VRAM. I dunno why Apple is continually stingy with RAM - at least they finally have default system RAM up to sane levels...

 

Subjective. And that's the crux of the whole thing. People who prefer matte think their way is the only way. I know; I USED TO BE ONE OF THEM. Then I actually used a glossy display and accepted how stupid it was to have thought matte was worth lying about.

 

16:10, however, I'll never give up on.

Release the 13 in. retina Macbook Pro and iMac already, Apple!!!!

This mindset causes my blood to boil! The Mini doesn't compete one bit with the iMac thus there is no reason for the arbitrary performance limitations in the Mini. They certainly need a low cost model, but that does not mean that an upscale Mini couldn't operate at state of the art laptop performance. It would be great if the Mini + model was actually a significant jump in performance over the base model.

Well whatever "most people" means. Here is the biggest issue with the Mini, its performance doesn't hold up well if your software demands go up over time. Further the lack of a decent GPU in the base model does impact performance negatively to the point that it does impact users.

Mini has never been a power users machine but it is getting better with each release but it is easy to bring the machine to a crawl. I may go the route of a Mini simply because my needs are changing. However if I had the choice between a castrated Mini and something like an XMac I'd go the XMac route in a heart beat. Why? Mainly to know that 5 years from purchase I will still have a viable computer.

It is rather sad that they screw over Mini the way they do. What is even more disgusting is the lack of choice. I'd rather see a Mini replacement that takes regular video cards. Well half length cards, we don't need a big box but rather a Mini that is just big enough. Apples success in tackling other parts of the architecture in its laptops highlights this fact. Performance engineering these days involves paying attention to much of the system outside of the CPU. Well this is more debatable. What is obvious is that a GPU is still a very important part of a system. Along these lines AMDs APUs are a better fit for the Mini if you want integrated GPUs. Being 50% faster than Intel is nothing to sneeze at and can be very noticeable.

The problem with the Mini is that when they did go to the effort of putting a GPU in the machine they only equipped it with 256MB of RAM which simply isn't enough.
Yes those days are gone thankfully. Well at least for PCs, right now Apple is making amazing strides with iOS devices every year that make upgrades compelling. Back to personal computers though and we find a different story. Clock rates aren't scaling upwards like they use to, this means the only realistic way to upgrade is to wait for a couple of generations or go wide. Going wide means multicore machines which are only exploited effectively by a small number of users.

So what we have is only a minor performance factor pushing upgrades combined with stable software means little incentive to run out and update. Here is the key though, buy the right hardware and your need to update can be pushed off into the far future. This though is where Mini kinda blows, the hardware really isn't good enough to be considered a long term investment. That is mostly due to Apple being stingy with the GPU, its RAM and overall capability.

 

I was a switcher last August and I already had a perfectly good 22" monitor, keyboard and mouse.  Plus I was trying to stretch some tax return money as far as I could.  The only time I hear my Mini is when I'm converting video or playing World of Warcraft.  I think I hear it some during Diablo 3, but WoW stresses it harder.  Doing anything else on it like watching movies, surfing the web, listening to music, I never hear it.  It takes up a lot less space than my old mid-tower PC as well as a ton less electricity.  I may be looking at a Mac laptop this coming year or if I decide to stay w/a desktop system I may get a Haswell iMac.  Then again, a Haswell Mini and a TB Display could be nice too.  I do at least live in a town w/an Apple store about 5 minutes from me, so if I had an iMac and something went wrog, at least I wouldn't have to ship it off.  Oh yeah, my model was the $800 upgraded video card mid-2011 version.

Edited by SSquirrel - 10/9/12 at 5:34am

 

Blah Blah Blah...for every glossy panel whiner there's a pro with a Eizo or NEC on their desks next to their iMacs because their primary monitor has almost always been as expensive if not more than the workstation they use anyway.  EVEN IF the iMac was matte they'd STILL be using their very expensive Eizos ANYWAY.

 

They can toss secondary panels, Outlook and IM on the iMac screen and set it very dim since they work in a darkened room anyway.

 

So for the tiny percentage of users who doesn't have the space for 2 monitors, doesn't need more than mid level computing and GPU power and does want a non-glossy screen then yes, picking the mini instead of the iMac is the better choice.

 

Yes it does.  Every mini sale is one less monitor sale for Apple and a lower ASP leading to lower revenue and profits.

 

The mini is specifically positioned to be worse than the entry level iMac in every regard except lowest entry cost.

 

Lol...there are folks on here that's been waiting for and predicting the imminent arrival of an Apple branded TV since 2006...

 

That's a long time to be holding your breath...Apple ships when Apple ships.  The long mini drought was no fun either.

The mini isn't as good of an option for a lot of applications now as it was when first introduced. To be honest, if you want a mini-server, the little NAS devices can really do a great job. Many of them are built on Linux platforms and allow you console access; I'm looking at trying to run Asterisk on my $200 MyBookLive, and I already have them set up to synchronize between a hot standby device. Likewise, there are mini Atom boxes that can run Windows for ~$300 that are one fourth the size of the Mini.

Sure, OSX is worth a bit of a premium, but the product really needs to be rethought somewhat. If they could cram it down to an AppleTV form factor, have dual network interfaces, etc., then it would be great for a number of things, if the price point were under $500.

I really hope Apple pushes more into the "time capsule" market. The current offerings are a disappointment-- at a minimum I want a way to make one unit a hot standby of another, and give better "server" functions-- without the price going up.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/29019-mac-mini-supply-dries-up

Specifically this part

"Apple last updated the Mac mini in July of 2011, adding support for the high-speed Thunderbolt port while ditching the built-in optical disc drive that had been found on previous models. But an updated Mac mini was not listed by analyst Ming-Chi Kuo among the eight new products Apple is rumoured to launch this autumn. With supply already running out, it could be that the Mac Mini is being canned."

If worse comes to worse, I'll need a good PC replacement notebook or relatively cheap desktop to play Gauntlet Dark Legacy on while I still keep my 2011 Mini.

 

They just redesigned it.

What? I'm checking the Apple Store. It's not showing for me.

 

I mean just as in "only two releases ago". They're still invested in it, so don't worry.

This is one of the better rumors for me, as I've been on the edge of buying a Mac mini for a few months.. to replace my hackintosh of 4 years old. save on power and continue enjoying the latest operating system and updates.

@allenbf: it may not be "better" than the iMac, but it gives one more flexibility to upgrade the computer without having to replace a perfectly good monitor at the same time.

 

I used to think that.  Then the last time I went to hand down my mini to the kids and realized...I'd have to either pair it with an old 17" CRT or buy a new monitor for them.  So...$150 later they had a new monitor and I figure this time I'll just get the iMac and not worry about it. 

 

At work I have no say in which desk I'm assigned to and essentially no say in lighting.

When viewing a text document my MBP shows my head, an air conditioning vent and, if I sit up straight, the light two desks over. Everything but the light is pretty easy to ignore so I angle myself and the screen to avoid that. Luckily I have a post and another desk behind me right now, but next quarter I could move to a desk facing away from a floor-to-ceiling window. I had that situation a year ago and there were times of day when it was nearly impossible to be productive. When the sun is coming through the little cracks between the blinds there just isn't much you can do except wait or go for coffee.

 

Agreed. I'd be happy with a miniDP and no thunderbolt if the cross-patenting isn't fully extended, by I have never known my former company to let Intel hold them by the balls when it comes to R&D jointly developed post NeXT infusion from my ex-NeXT camp.

 

Just FYI,

I have installed several anti-reflective films (from reputable and well-regarded vendors).

In my experience, while cutting down on reflections, some also introduce a slight 'twinkle' effect to the pixels, which I find to be a sad trade-off in order to cut down on reflections.

 

If shiny reflective surface works for you, OK, fine.

But the glossy surface is not very good for my eyes, causing more eye-strain and visual 'tiredness', at least that's how I characterize it for me.

I have owned and used many iMacs from older ones with anti-reflective screens up to latest Aluminum/ Core i series with glossy screens, so I've been able to compare -- I prefer the Apple anti-reflective screen treatment over the glossy.

 

(Curious how you come by your assertion of percentage of 10% iMac users are concerned about glare and that 90% like the reflective glass screen surface.)

The Mini is a low end Apple computer but it is really a mid level computer when one compares the hardware with other companies. Add some upgrades to the Mini and it is nearly a high end consumer and business machine. A Mini can be priced at over $1200. At those prices it does cost more. The OS is worth it when compared to Windows but one really must need what OS X offers to go with a high end Mini. For word processing, e-mail, and spreadsheets the Mini is just overpriced. When the machine is used for entertainment and fun, then the Mac OS becomes worth the extra money.

Time to move it along. Sorry to be impatient but let's speed it up. This is getting to be like a traffic jam.

 

 

If only it would handle video rendering I would have a stack of five minis right now running with Remote Desktop. The test I ran on my slightly older model took forever to complete and the machine was hot as a grill.

 

 

Ah...here are some folks doing just that.  It could be fairly software dependent on the performance side so YMMV.

 

 

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=14222.0

 

 

 

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/19/875130

 

Buy Applecare, max the internal fans and set them in front of your AC vent or use them as a space heater in the winter with a normal fan.  

 

Or you can try this to isolate the noise and reduce temps:

 

 

 

http://www.techspot.com/community/topics/render-farm-dry-cooling-project.32934/

 

Venting outside might be an issue.  Maybe you can tap into your bathroom vent from a nearby closet or something and provide the ac unit with venting that way.  

 

The minis are small enough to fit in a wine cooler with humidity control so that might work but they don't cool much and are slow to get the temps down.  Maybe a beer fridge. :)

 

 

The Mini just doesn't hold up to this type of usage. It is a low end machine with rather terrible performance for the price in a desktop. I have to wonder when or if thermal throttling kicked in on your Mini. Throttling is a tell tale sign that you have thermal problems. Case temperature doesn't imply that that the machine has reached a throttling temperature, you really need to monitor CPU temperature.

Even so this highlights one of the reasons I have a love hate relationship with the Mini. In reality it doesn't even come close to offering midrange PC performance. That isn't a problem per say if you see the Mini as a low end machine. The problem is that Apple doesn't have a midrange desktop.

Being totally honest, my current Mac mini is enough to suffice me for now. Having the 8 GB of memory and Samsung 470 is good though it's just the graphics that are killing me. Really I don't want to have to get another Mac mini and deep down I don't think the IB mini is going to cut it in terms of graphics.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+Pavilion+HPE+Desktop+-+10GB+Memory+-+1TB+Hard+Drive/5563052.p?id=1218661381249&skuId=5563052 <--- I'm looking at this.

If someone can find something cheaper so that I can play Diablo III, Starcraft II, and a few other games at good frame rates.

 

 

Hmm.  I think I'll stick with the second iMac I currently have for a while.  If the new update is nice, I might give it a shot.  I do have a shelf that has enough room for a stack of three or four minis, and the room is always kept at a nice cool temperature.  I would love to free up the desk space (and get rid of the display) that the iMac takes up.

 

Sometimes I wish there was a system setting where you could set the CPU max at say 80% and thus avoid heat issues... 

 

Two problems with this comment:

 

1) "People who prefer matte think their way is the only way."

 

If you'd read what I, and many others have written, you'd see that what you're saying is a flat out lie.  I don't begrudge others from liking what I find to be an inferior product.  I have stated repeatedly that my way is NOT the only way.  What is unacceptable, though, is having no option whatsoever to buy a standard matte display (not super-hires, retina, etc.).  If you go back and read your comments and mine, you'll see that it's your comments that have the my-way-or-the-highway tone.  I personally cannot use a display with reflections.  If you think reflections are acceptable, that's fine, I really don't care.  

 

You should really apologize for making false accusations.  Not that I believe you'd ever stoop to admitting you're wrong...

 

2) "to have thought matte was worth lying about."

 

Did you really lie to people about the matte/glossy issue?  Because I never have.  Or are you implying that others are lying?  Because it's really easy to position a matte display so there are no DISCERNIBLE reflections.  Seeing an area of the screen that's somewhat brighter than the rest of the screen is vastly different from seeing a fully-focused reflection of whatever happens to be behind you.  Or your own face.  Or the various lights that other people in the room are using, etc.  Conversely, it's very difficult to position a glossy display where those things aren't fully focusable right on your screen.

 

After this conversation, I made a point to go into Best Buy yesterday to take another look at the retina 15" MacBook.  Sadly, it's actually not even as good as what I'd remembered seeing during a brief visit to the Apple store a few weeks ago.  I was able to diddle around and find a position that would have been acceptable to work, but it was a challenge, and frankly, when you're working in various locations all the time it's rarely possible to create those kinds of ideal lighting environments.  

 

The only people that are lying are those who claim there are no reflections.  They ARE there, it's just a matter of whether or not people can push them aside, mentally.

Edited by Blah64 - 10/12/12 at 10:36pm

 

You may not. Many do.

 

 

I have not. Others do. Primarily matte people.

 

 

No, plenty of matte people lie.

Last time I checked the Mac mini (the topic of the thread) didn't have a display.

 

Wonder if we'll see an update this week... doubt it will be at the event with a focus on iBooks.  Maybe just a release?

 

The Mac Mini didn't even get an event when it last got a redesign. It's not getting one, even if Apple managed to somehow get Haswell this early.

 

Oh, sure, they'd definitely mention it being updated… at an event for a redesigned iMac. But even the iMac wouldn't get an event unless it was redesigned in some way.

 

And I don't see them giving it Ivy Bridge when the iMac is stuck with Sandy.

 

I've been thinking (hoping) that they will have a mini-themed event, i.e. the iPad mini and a new Mac mini.

 

It would make a good sound bite for marketing buzz.  Just hoping.

If they don't get back to the Mac in some form or fashion then I hope the iPad mini bombs. I don't mean to be negative but I think Apple needs to knocked off of their perch a bit to get them back into focus.

That won't happen. Honestly I see a huge success brewing in iPad Mini if it comes out with the right feature set.

That does not however excuse them for their attitude towards the desktop. They basically abandoned it five years ago but even before that their attitude seemed to be to stuff the market with crap overpriced hardware and then to declare the desktop dead. In reality Apple doesn't have a "desktop" solution. They have the Mini and Pro, which are special interest machines that have been poor values for years now and the iMac. The iMac is such a joke that many of us don't even count it The fact that the iMac has been Apples desktop sale leader doesn't erase the fact that the machine is clumsy, poorly engineered and limited.

When I comes right down to it I'm not surprised at all that Apple has sales issues on the desktop.

And I don't want to be in a piss poor mood but I say there should be some equality.

How much better must the iPad get in order for them to justify dumping the Mac Mini? Does that even matter?

 

I use my Mac Book with an external screen most of the time. Perhaps Apple will just eliminate the Mini and suggest people buy the lowest level Mac Book and get an external screen. It really is a good solution. The only downside is there are fewer ports. That is easily fixed with a USB hub. The Apple monitor has ports built in so it might not matter. Apple could easily remind people that their existing monitors, mice, and keyboards will work well with a Mac Book just like they did with the Mac Mini advertisements.

 

I've never owned an iMac. The all in one design didn't matter to me because I have plenty of space on my desk. To some people space might matter. A Mac Book placed under a monitor with a stand wouldn't take up any more space than an iMac. Apple could just switch to making only Mac Books, Apple TVs, Airport, Monitors, and iDevices. Doing so would give the company a better focus. Those items could all blend together around the one screen using the Airport for sharing.

 

The idea of prestige could be transferred from the Mac Pro to the super-duper Mac Books with retina displays. Apple could claim they make the worlds best laptop and not care about the loss of the Mac Pro and iMac. I didn't know about the Mac Pro until I shopped online for my first Apple computer. Even then I wasn't interested in it nor did I care that Apple made a super fancy expensive gigantic desktop tower. Tim Cook did mention that an improved Mac Pro was coming out next year. Will it be the last?

 

Maybe they could have an event; "Come and get your Mac Pro's and Mini's. The Last Chance Event. We Ain't Makin 'Em No More!"