Google, Samsung reported to take on iPad with high-end 10-inch tablet - Page 2

Two posts ago should have read "The vastly inferior product goes beyond the screen" not battery.  Had battery on my mind since I was needing to charge my phone. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigpics 
 I got the same treatment at three separate Verizon Stores.  Big time. And when questioned why the hard non-sell, all swore it's just because they think the droids are better devices. So it puzzles me.  Is there a bigger commission on the sales floor?  Lower device cost to the franchisee?  Pressure from Sprint (which doesn't make a lick of sense, since they've committed to buying, what 15 million in three years whether they move them all or not anyway, and made the buy because it made the company seem still relevant)??

Anybody??  I just can't puzzle it out without more facts....

Bigger commission, maybe. Why a bigger commission? Maybe because Verizon can install more crapware and spyware, and consequently reap greater dividends than from the sale of an iPhone. Or maybe Android users don't use the Internet as much, so they're cheaper to support. Or maybe Android users feel compelled by the "high quality" to upgrade sooner, even at full, unsubsidized price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigpics 

Samsung exploited an unmet market segment.  It astounds me that the largest company in the world can't design and release two different size phones per year, despite what the market is telling them.  Yeah, yeah, one-handed thumb, schmum.  1. We don't all have the same size hands, 2. the bigger screen is a trade-off for two handed operation at times.  A trade-off millions are obviously ready to make.  There's more than one ergonomic factor in a design and some value the better viewing experience of their pics and other media over the Ives/Jobsian aesthetic. 

Of course, now that iOS 6 is committed to the 16:9 UI thing, Apple may have ridden into a "letterbox" canyon and have a real developer problem if they ever decided they wanted to enter the segment, as a 4.8" screen in those proportions would either have to adopt other proportions or else be so tall it would stick out of pockets and just pop out of bras....

Solipsism X, meet v5v.  You're both onto something here....

DocNo42, meet Solipsism X.   He's gonna learn you somethin'....

Android's hot around here - particularly the new Sammy....  ...I know I enjoy picking it up in stores and fiddling...

 

 

 

Why does your b's b-in-law desperately try to persuade people to buy a non-iPhone?  I ask 'cos I got the same treatment at three separate Verizon Stores.  Big time. And when questioned why the hard non-sell, all swore it's just because they think the droids are better devices. So it puzzles me.  Is there a bigger commission on the sales floor?  Lower device cost to the franchisee?  Pressure from Sprint (which doesn't make a lick of sense, since they've committed to buying, what 15 million in three years whether they move them all or not anyway, and made the buy because it made the company seem still relevant)??

Anybody??  I just can't puzzle it out without more facts....

I can tell you that my bros bro in law does not do it because he's a Fandroid.  I've seen him with every kind of phone maker and OS and he could care less about the usual arguments of phones.  Personally I hate talking about work when I'm not at work so I try not to talk to people about their work and have never had a long coversation with him about it but.  From what I gather though, is Apple has a product that sells itself and doesn't give in to demands that the usual suspects such as verizon, at&t and sprint are accustomed to in the past and still do with all other phone makers except Apple (No carrier bloatware, price discounts and variations to distinguish from the other carriers are some examples).  For that reason the margin on Apple is much less and so sales profits for the franchisees are higher when they sell a non iPhone.  Remember though he's a part owner so that is how it affects him.  As far as just a employee who works for a hourly wage and commission, it's possible they are entitled to more of a commission for an Android phone but I highly doubt that is the case.  I think the commission for them is the same on either phone that is sold and are either told to do so from the employer or it's just their own mind at play and they let their blind fanboy beliefs work on selling another Android phone.  If they go as far as to make accounts at Apple themed websites just to argue that iPhone sucks to strangers, can you imagine them at play while working selling the products. 

One day I will ask him in more detail just to share it with the people on here but until that day, you have my take on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee 

 

I think it's a given it will be a Snapdragon S4 Pro which is a pretty fast SoC. It's similar to an A6 performance-wise, and that's the problem. By next year it's almost guaranteed the iPad 4 will have Apple's custom ARM processor (maybe even quad core) coupled with PowerVR 6xx which will make it the performance king once again.

 

Android's problem is that it will never perform as good as iOS - it's just not as efficient. An Android device will always require a more powerful SoC and increased RAM to give similar performance. The fandroids like to talk specs (and especially RAM) but they keep forgetting that they're starting at a disadvantage by running a less-efficient OS.

 

I like to think in terms of cars. HP=CPU, torque=GPU, cylinders=cores, vehicle=OS.

 

The GS3 has 400 HP and 400 lb/ft of torque coming from a V8 engine.

The iPhone 5 has 360 HP and 1,000 lb/ft of torque coming from an I4 engine.

 

The iPhone 5 gives up a little in HP, but kills in torque which is what really helps in daily driving. And it does it with a smaller engine that consumes less fuel and takes up less space.

 

But what really kills is the operating system. The GS3 is a 4,000lb car while the iPhone 5 is a 2,600lb tube frame race chassis. This is why the iPhone 5 kills in application benchmarks (real world use) even though it's slightly slower in pure synthetic benchmarks (GeekBench, which only considers engine HP and doesn't account for engine torque or the weight of the car).

To continue your automobile analogy a bit further... the CS3 will burn through fuel faster then the iPhone, leaving the GS3 parked along the roadside while the iPhone makes it home. Either that or the GS3 will need a bigger gas tank which comes at the expense of more weight. By mid 2013 you will be able to spot a GS3 user because he will have suspenders AND a belt to hold their cargo pants up when they slide that wide fat puppy into their pocket. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylerk36 

Well there needs to be some sort of competition.  We can't have one brand only in the whole world making tablets and smart phones.  Really.  It's gonna happen sooner of later.  I think it makes Apple stay on top of things.  Reinvent itself again like it did so many times.  The only difference is Jobs not being apart of it.  Lets hope that Apple's existing group of designers can stay ahead of the curve.  I mean its a brutal battle ground.  Constantly making and developing products to quench the enemy's missiles of "our better products than Apple".  It is gonna happen.  The rest of the industry is gonna try and take Apple down.  The competition is gonna make something to hurt Apple, and Apple needs that.  It rally's the troops and makes them do better or come up with more innovative products we never knew we needed like the real smart phone with a finger stylus.  Who knew?  

My question is why do you think that Apple will not continue to improve their product line without these piles of crap that are out there????? They need the people to keep buying their products. Just saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigpics 

Samsung exploited an unmet market segment.  It astounds me that the largest company in the world can't design and release two different size phones per year, despite what the market is telling them.  Yeah, yeah, one-handed thumb, schmum.  1. We don't all have the same size hands, 2. the bigger screen is a trade-off for two handed operation at times.  A trade-off millions are obviously ready to make.  There's more than one ergonomic factor in a design and some value the better viewing experience of their pics and other media over the Ives/Jobsian aesthetic. 

Of course, now that iOS 6 is committed to the 16:9 UI thing, Apple may have ridden into a "letterbox" canyon and have a real developer problem if they ever decided they wanted to enter the segment, as a 4.8" screen in those proportions would either have to adopt other proportions or else be so tall it would stick out of pockets and just pop out of bras....

Solipsism X, meet v5v.  You're both onto something here....

DocNo42, meet Solipsism X.   He's gonna learn you somethin'....

Android's hot around here - particularly the new Sammy....  ...I know I enjoy picking it up in stores and fiddling...

 

 

 

Why does your b's b-in-law desperately try to persuade people to buy a non-iPhone?  I ask 'cos I got the same treatment at three separate Verizon Stores.  Big time. And when questioned why the hard non-sell, all swore it's just because they think the droids are better devices. So it puzzles me.  Is there a bigger commission on the sales floor?  Lower device cost to the franchisee?  Pressure from Sprint (which doesn't make a lick of sense, since they've committed to buying, what 15 million in three years whether they move them all or not anyway, and made the buy because it made the company seem still relevant)??

Anybody??  I just can't puzzle it out without more facts....

Also don't forget Verizon didn't get the iPhone for years and Verizon had to go on the offensive with the droid's.  We all remember the crap that was motorola droid and it's commercials of a robot using the phone but never showing a human using it.  Great advertising!  Anyway for them I'm sure many of it's employees got droids back than and became anti apple.  I'm sure that mentality exists at Verizon in many employees minds to this day who have been working for that long.  They still practice the same tactics.  Not saying all the Verizon employees you faced got to where they are at because of that but many still do exists across Verizon stores.  I don't live in the States no more, moved back to Canada, and I haven't seen that happen much here.  Seems like the last couple phone reps at my Koodo phone store I've dealt with didn't have an opinion.  They both had iPhones and I bought a Android phone from one of them and he didn't for a second try to talk me into anything else.  Just did what I asked of him.  Prefer it that way. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macky the Macky 

 

To continue your automobile analogy a bit further... the CS3 will burn through fuel faster then the iPhone, leaving the GS3 parked along the roadside while the iPhone makes it home. Either that or the GS3 will need a bigger gas tank which comes at the expense of more weight. By mid 2013 you will be able to spot a GS3 user because he will have suspenders AND a belt to hold their cargo pants up when they slide that wide fat puppy into their pocket. 

That's assuming that by mid 2013 Samsung phones still fit in pockets. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfts 

 

My household is now Microsoft-free, except for son's Windows 7 Netbook (high school mandatory equipment). And we are all very happy, except for my son.

Funny, but students in the lower grades will be allowed iPads to school, which is good news.

We're also so very happy being Microsoft & Apple OS free. What a relief!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


No it's not.

Exactly.

J.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


No it's not.

It doesn't matter because those are just paper specs.

Apple has come up with a dual core phone that beats the competition's quad core devices.

I don't understand why the IT press isn't going mental over this. Imagine what Apple's chip designers can do with a quad-core device,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mocseg 

 

We're also so very happy being Microsoft & Apple OS free. What a relief!

Apple open source work on cups for Linux...

...being able to print, what a relief!

It's all of the above: Bigger commission, lower device cost (with same phone/contract price), carriers wanting more control, which Android gives them, as well as spiffs (per device sold payments to sales staff) from the handset manufacturers. People swear to things that aren't true all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

A higher resolution and higher PPI means nothing if you don't have the SW that runs smoothly on it. Even with Butter I highly doubt Google Android can power such a display smoothly.
I wonder what the Samsung fans will say when they find out it's LCD and not AMOLED.

On top of Butter Google will add Marmelade to run Android smoother on retina display tablets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill60 

 

Apple open source work on cups for Linux...

 

...being able to print, what a relief!

Linux is a great server OS, but using it for your desktop to be "Apple OS free" is like heating your home with a wood stove to be "green".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach 

On top of Butter Google will add Marmelade to run Android smoother on retina display tablets.

I believe that technology is actually called "Marmite".

Great. More also-ran tablets to flood the market.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSheldon 


It will mirror their phone's unlike the iPad's to the iPhone's. Less fragmentation.
.

I don't think you fully understand the term fragmentation... There's a lot of factors that play into it, but none are about the shape displays between phones and tablets.

No matter what, you're going to get difference between tablet and phone screen sizes and shapes, and "fragmentation" of software to support these massive resolution difference is going to happen - or at least, should be happening to avoid piss poor experiences.

The word you are looking for is consistency, but I don't think that really matters as far as shapes of displays across types of devices. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

 

I believe that technology is actually called "Marmite".

So you suggest, Ice Cream Sandwich with Butter and Marmite?

Well, in that case I believe I will stick to the iPad. ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

2560x1600? So a 16:10 tablet? Why can't we have 16x10 back where it belongs: on computer monitors!

LOL, I can't even imagine what would it be with Android running on 16:10 screen, it must be that high-end hahaha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach 

So you suggest, Ice Cream Sandwich with Butter and Marmite?

Well, in that case I believe I will stick to the iPad. ;-)

It's definitely an acquired taste, and the user experience with Marmite isn't really what most people are hoping for.

Originally Posted by jfanning 
We can, a number of companies still produce 16:10 monitors

Yeah, but not all of them, like it used to be…

Originally Posted by iSheldon 
It will mirror their phone's unlike the iPad's to the iPhone's. Less fragmentation.

"You keep using that word. I know for a fact it doesn't mean what you pretend it means."

Android is quick to call the fragmentation card because their own ecosystem is so fragmented that to call it a system is stretching the meaning of the word.

So they stretch the meaning of the word "fragmentation" to include iOS so they can feel that this huge problem of theirs equally applies (or will equally apply to iOS as well).

But Android ignores these fundamental facts: 1) easy OS updatability; 2) universal application support across devices.

These are the two most defining factors of fragmentation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Android's propaganda machine simply ignores logic and rationality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfts 

Take a ticket - another iPad killer is on the horizon.

My household is now Microsoft-free, except for son's Windows 7 Netbook (high school mandatory equipment). And we are all very happy, except for my son.

Funny, but students in the lower grades will be allowed iPads to school, which is good news.

Once my son finishes high school we both intend to take his Netbook together with a large axe to the nearest field to give it some tender loving care, think Office Space.

As for Android phones/tablets, I would rather dip my arms in 16M concentrated Sulphuric Acid.

Rather than take an ax to the netbook, install Linux.  My wife had a netbook that was unusable with Windows.  After it took 18 minutes to boot up, I installed Ubuntu.  It is now a reasonably fast, stable, net surfing machine.  As they say, don't kill the messenger.  That poor netbook is only delivering Windows.  Give it something better to deliver.

I wrote that late last night after a hard day.

Here's my story:  I can understand what Apple feels to a small extent because I am going through a similar experience on a smaller scale.

My business is the originator and innovator.

A wealthy foreigner comes into my market, and unethically and illegally copies much of my business, and begins to undercut the market by offering inferior and cheaper versions of the same service.

Unlike Apple, however, I don't have billions in cash to litigate and have real financial constraints that limit my ability to invest in my own innovative business.

When I look at Google and Samsung I see the same think, on a much larger scale.

So, I don't care about whether those are good products or not.  They are bottom feeders, feeding of the blood, sweat, and tears of those that took the risks, put in the time and work to create something special, to simply grab a piece of the pie by any means necessary.

I refuse to buy anything by Samsung.  Unfortunately, I tried to stop using google services, but unfortunately Bing just isn't as good for search as Google, no matter what the ads say.

So, for those who can't see the situation for what it is, I will believe that you implicitly condone such behavior and thus are also part of the problem:  bottom feeders, riding off others hard work and innovation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fotoformat 

 

Does a link-up between Samescum and "Don't be evil" Google sound like a marriage made in heaven? Just asking  ;~)

Certainly looks like a move of desperation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


No offense, but only someone who is ignorant would look at MHz to determine performance. If you want to say it has less MHz, less RAM, less weight, less thickness as all signs of it being lesser then that is technically true but it's not accurate in any technical sense of it functionality. It's not a fluke or a result of just some crafty OS code. There are real technical achievements that allow for it to be better than all other phones on the market.

I think your turning this into something that it isn't on what I said.  I don't disagree with you because I know the numbers don't mean a thing but I don't think the majority thinks that way.  It's no different than the Porsche 911 vs Chevrolet Corvette argument.  Most Americans will look at the engine size and HP numbers and Torque and tell you that the porsche is a rip off when you can buy the better car for less but Anyone who knows about cars knows that although the Corvette isn't a bad car by any means just isn't as sophisticated a car as the 911 is.  I know even on here I'll get a lot of disagreement but the porsche squeezes out a lot with a little.

So to call me ignorant because I'm nearly stating what the majority of people see and not what I see, because I prefer the route Apple goes which is to squeeze a lot out of a little taking into account not just performance but efficiency, is wrong. It seems other companies mantra is the bigger everything the better (screens, batteries, processors) is just plain grade school boy recess mentality and people seem to fall for it.  

Now do you understand what I was trying to say? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCentric 

Seriously though, by the time this thing actually ships, it will be just in time for March when the 'even newer' new iPad will come out and crush it. Oh and by the way, very few people will be willing to pay a higher price for any non iPad tablet, so it is dead on arrival regardless.

You could be very right in the end. which is why the headline perhaps should be "Google, Samsung reported to TRY to take on iPad . . . "

Name does count and right now for many folks, Samsung is just the folks that copy what Apple does. Outside of the die hard haters and tweak geeks, the general public has more mindspace for Apple on these matters. 

And if Apple does announce an iPad mini, as the rumors claim,  in the next two weeks, it will be out by the holidays and anyone looking for a cheaper tablet will likely have that on their brains, if not in their hands, before this Nexus Maxi or whatever comes to the market. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlituna 

Name does count and right now for many folks, Samsung is just the folks that copy what Apple does. Outside of the die hard haters and tweak geeks, the general public has more mindspace for Apple on these matters. ...

As pointed out in this and other threads, the only reason that Android is selling as well as it does in phones is because carriers are and have been pushing it like crazy.

That dynamic does not exist in the tablet market, which is why no Android tablet to date has garnered any significant market share. The one possible exception (for which we don't have an actual, real, sales numbers) might be the Amazon Fire, where again we see an (the) interested party marketing it like there's no tomorrow. Who exactly is going to market these Android tablets and convince consumers that they are "as good as" iPads? I don't really see anyone able to step into that role, the role the carriers play in the handset market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mocseg 

 

We're also so very happy being Microsoft & Apple OS free. What a relief!

"And, yea verily, the Troll doth riseth from the primordial ooze, yodeling its paean of Linux/Android/AnythingNon-Commercial-ness, reveling in its power to smite the great unwashed masses, sure in its power and might, That Its Way Was The One True Way.(tm) The Troll knoweth its work doth be cutteth out for it, for the Forces Of Pleasant User Experience(tm) were many, stubborn and willful. Yet, the Troll fought on, knowing its lack of social skills, personal hygiene and dense neckbeard would prove to be effective weapons and armor against anyone daring to prefer something else."

Or something like that.

It will never, ever cease to amaze me how some people will go out of their way to post on an Apple-centric web site, when they obviously never have or never will own an Apple product, just for the sheer "fun" of attempting to piss other people off.

And now, back to the actual topic:

Samsung may very well be able to come out with a screen of that high of a resolution; they've been the manufacturers for Apple for quite a while. While they may not be able to use the exact same technology (I'm not sure on that part - depends on the licensing) they've certainly got the manufacturing capabilities.

Now, will Google be able to get its act together with the next couple of iterations of Android, so that the user experience is smoother than it currently is? And, most importantly, will they make this new platform an attractive enough target that a decent number of developers will put in the time and effort to write their apps for it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jivanile 

The vastly inferior technology goes beyond the battery.  I don't even bother arguing with people though as I'm not one to try and persuade just for the false satisfaction of thinking I have something to do with Apple.  The iPhone 5 is superior to GS3 in almost every aspect.

I figured out that Samsung owners actually spend their days on Web forums proclaiming the superiority of their specs, complaining to game developers why such-and-such game hasn't been ported from iOS, rooting their phones, and otherwise never using the kitchen sink features that Samsung carelessly dumped into the product to win a features list war. It's a product without vision or care. Born out of a desire to make money, not change the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpsro 

Bigger commission, maybe. Why a bigger commission? Maybe because Verizon can install more crapware and spyware, and consequently reap greater dividends than from the sale of an iPhone. Or maybe Android users don't use the Internet as much, so they're cheaper to support. Or maybe Android users feel compelled by the "high quality" to upgrade sooner, even at full, unsubsidized price.

I worked at Verizon Wireless when they first received the iPhone 4. There's no question that Verizon gets a better deal with Android manufacturers than the iPhone, but I'm going to doubt corporate honchos are asking their sales people to ignore the iPhone in favor of Android. When we first received the iPhone it was business as usual for me in the call center. Nothing changed. We offered the iPhone just like we offered Android, and we had plenty of training on the device. But the problem was that veteran Verizon employees were trained for years how to talk customers out of getting the iPhone on AT&T. We're talking about a workforce whose main nemesis was the iPhone in terms of hitting sales goals and gaining personal success. I myself on occasions had to talk customers into taking a Droid device with Verizon instead of an iPhone. 

So you have a workforce who was bred to resent the iPhone from the beginning. These people see Android as the good guys, the guys who brought prosperity to Verizon, the guys who brought record profits to the company. I remember when I went into Verizon to buy the original Droid during launch week, the amount of excitement from the employees of that store was staggering. I think the company and it's employees just need a mindset change, and it'll happen over time.