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Quality issues with iPhone 5's aluminum chassis slows production, report says - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I agree that it will look like crap in a year.  But I still think it was a good choice.  It's stronger than the 4S, lighter than the 4S, less sensitive to breakage than the 4S, etc. Its an absolutely gorgeous work of art.  I'd take the aluminum over glass anyday- People just need to protect it.  I know it sounds like beating a dead horse, but just wrap the back and sides and call it a day.  To go caseless will cause nothing but an ugly phone in a few months.

 

Maybe Carbon Fiber for the next one?  I dont know much about it though- would that scratch?  Or could it be nearly as beautiful?  The white and black are both works of art.

 

The problem I think is that most of the people talking about this, and Apple itself apparently, fail to see the eroding effect caused by things like this over time for the brand.  Think about the impact of millions and millions of scratched to heck iPhones walking around on people's perceptions of Apple quality.  Apple's brand carries a carefully cultured assumption of quality worth the expense - the devices have a thoughtfulness and a build quality that conveys 'I am built well, and with care.  I am worth the extra price'.  When a consumer picks up a device like this and the back is marred with hundreds of bright silver scratches, the opposite message is conveyed.  The device says 'I was not well thought out and well considered.'  Maybe that in fact is not the case, but like it or not, assessments like this are often made by first impression.  Take the casual person milling around the Verizon or AT&T store.  They go and look at the iPhone - probably the most expensive handset on display - and it is all scratched up and looks like a piece of trash.  What sort of impression does that make, and what sort of contribution does it make to Apple's brand?

 

I think the broader issue here is that the leadership team at Apple is not as in tune to these factors as Steve Jobs was.  I know it is cliche, but I'll go there: I don't think Steve would have allowed them to release a device that scratches up this easily.

post #42 of 71
This is a tempest in a teapot. Toyota just recalled 7M+ vehicles due to a power window issue that could start a fire. Now that's an issue.
post #43 of 71
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post
I know it is cliche, but I'll go there: I don't think Steve would have allowed them to release a device that scratches up this easily.

 

You know it's cliché, you know you shouldn't say it, and you still say it. I don't get it. We can't know these things. It's likely he personally approved the device himself.

 

I agree with the sentence that preceded this one, though.

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post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

I appreciate your post, and there are some good, valid points- but in the scheme of things- I don't think this will hurt Apple's reputation in the slightest.  Because at the end of the day- 95% (or more) of the iPhones I see out in the wild have cases on them.  In fact- the handful- and I mean midget handful- of iPhone 4s that I've seen without a case have cracked or shattered glass on the front or back. That's definitely worse.  :-)

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post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

I read somewhere online that if you put your iPhone 5 in a case, you can't see the marks. The problem is, if I was going to purchase the phone used & it had the marks, I would either not buy it or it would be leverage to offer a lower price.

 

Apple has prided itself in the well-crafted & expensive box & packing materials to create a really great emotional experience when purchasing & opening your new toy. Elation must turn to disbelief when you finally peel the plastic off the phone's surfaces to discover that it was packaged looking like someone had used it for a weekend with a pocket full of keys. Even if I put a case on the phone so the nicks weren't visible, I would know they were there & that I had paid full price, taxes, upgrade fee with the carrier (AT&T), & drove the many miles, all to feel I got less than I paid for.

 

BINGO.  This is the issue exactly.  The factors that influence brand perception are emotional.  You can make the finest automobile under the surface in the entire world; best power train, best suspension, finest materials... but if it on the surface looks like a 1975 dodge, it won't sell.  Why?  Because it doesn't create the emotional connection that drives sales and which ultimately drive a brand.

 

People talk about these scratches from the perspective of the scratches and nicks themselves; they are so small, so minor... hardly worth attention, right?  In themselves, perhaps.  But they mean a lot when it comes to the emotional connections that drive sales and which culture the brand.  The bigger issue is 'why did Apple bring to market a device that would look so awful after such a short period of time'?

 

I challenge anyone here to go to a high volume Apple store and look at these devices.  Turn them over, hold them in your hand, and just connect with your first impressions, and be honest with yourselves.


Edited by tt92618 - 10/10/12 at 10:05am
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You know it's cliché, you know you shouldn't say it, and you still say it. I don't get it. We can't know these things. It's likely he personally approved the device himself.

 

I agree with the sentence that preceded this one, though.

 

 

You are right that we cannot know.  But we do know a lot about Steve.  For example, we know he famously agonized over the precise shade of blue for the original iMacs.  We know he even pondered the color of robots in Apple's factories.  To suggest that Steve would have been ok with a device that scratches up terribly after just a few weeks of use, I think, is less probably true than to suggest that he would not have allowed it to come to market without improvement.

 

By the way, I was unaware of a prohibition against the cliche which would justify the statement that one should not have said something.

post #47 of 71
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post
You are right that we cannot know.  But we do know a lot about Steve.  For example, we know he famously agonized over the precise shade of blue for the original iMacs.  We know he even pondered the color of robots in Apple's factories.  To suggest that Steve would have been ok with a device that scratches up terribly after just a few weeks of use, I think, is less probably true than to suggest that he would not have allowed it to come to market without improvement.

 

Also have to take into consideration that it's possible he wouldn't have scratched it. I mean, the guy never used a case, sure, but these were his products. He'd take care of them. It's possible that if he had ever dropped his iPhone 4/S, he would have gone to his team and said, "Look, this shouldn't happen. Make this not happen." It's also more likely that he never dropped it and didn't even consider dropping it to be a possibility because of what the device represents to so many people. 


By the way, I was unaware of a prohibition against the cliche which would justify the statement that one should not have said something.

 

It just really diminishes the rest of your argument when you use it.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I appreciate your post, and there are some good, valid points- but in the scheme of things- I don't think this will hurt Apple's reputation in the slightest.  Because at the end of the day- 95% (or more) of the iPhones I see out in the wild have cases on them.  In fact- the handful- and I mean midget handful- of iPhone 4s that I've seen without a case have cracked or shattered glass on the front or back. That's definitely worse.  :-)

 

Over time, even an iPhone 5 in a case will also start to show wear. With handling flexible cases will rub against the sharp anodised edges and 'polish' away the finish. Any dust that gets between the case and the phone will act as an abrasive make the problem worse. You can already see this effect on some iPhone 4's that have had bumpers fitted. Imagine what a black iPhone 5 will look like after 1 or 2 years in a case. 

post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It just really diminishes the rest of your argument when you use it.

 

That being the case, please excuse the remark and consider the entirety of my argument.

post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post

 

Over time, even an iPhone 5 in a case will also start to show wear. With handling flexible cases will rub against the sharp anodised edges and 'polish' away the finish. Any dust that gets between the case and the phone will act as an abrasive make the problem worse. You can already see this effect on some iPhone 4's that have had bumpers fitted. Imagine what a black iPhone 5 will look like after 1 or 2 years in a case. 

Good points.  Then I'll go back to my original one- the best solution- no case, and wrap the back and sides.  Best of both worlds- no scratches and no case

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post #51 of 71
Can someone tell me the REAL reason why the iPhone 5 is in short supply?

So far, we've heard:
- Quality control issues. They have to slow down production because of a design problem
- Screens. Sharp (and others) can not produce screens fast enough
- Riots at the Foxconn factory

Did I miss anything? Maybe they're short of unicorn poop which is used to fertilize the magic iPhone trees where the iPhones grow. /s

In reality, it appears that supply is relatively plentiful (at least compared to previous launches), but demand is just so overwhelming that even Apple's vaunted supply chain can't keep up.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #52 of 71
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
Can someone tell me the REAL reason why the iPhone 5 is in short supply?

 

Demand.

 

Seems silly that one word is the answer, dunnit? But then again, seems silly that the reason has to be called into question.

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post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Good points.  Then I'll go back to my original one- the best solution- no case, and wrap the back and sides.  Best of both worlds- no scratches and no case


I agree. A self-adhesive wrap would be the way to go, as long as you get one that also protects those 'delicate' sides / edges.

post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit View Post


I agree. A self-adhesive wrap would be the way to go, as long as you get one that also protects those 'delicate' sides / edges.
I've had the while iPhone for 2 weeks now and have no nicks or scuffs with the band or chamfered edges. And I don't have the phone in a case, I just have a protective film on the back. Maybe it's the black phone that's the issue? Because my white phone is not as delicate as some are suggesting. And with the ones damaged out of the box that clearly is a manufacturing issue and I'm glad to see Apple is addressing it.
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

You can't see the idiocy in saying "There isn't a single scratch on it" and that you "have a form-fitting case for it" when the case covers the freaking part that could get scratched?!?!?!

 

There is no way you can be serious.  And if you are- please stop dumbing down the thread by posting in it.

If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner: I said (you're welcome to go back and look) "...form-fitting slide-in/-out case..."

 

In other words, one that you slip the phone into when you're walking around with it or in your pocket, or in your car, etc. One that is not a case when the phone is in use (as in right now).

 

Two pieces of advice. Dude. One, please learn to read and process information better before spouting off. Two (and more important), if you're simply carrying/throwing the phone around au naturel, not only do you need to stop whining about the resulting scratches and scuffs, but you do not count as a relevant data point for this particular issue.

post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In reality, it appears that supply is relatively plentiful (at least compared to previous launches), but demand is just so overwhelming that even Apple's vaunted supply chain can't keep up.

That's just about it.

post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

No doubt at all that the black one scuffs very very easily. The silver/white is definitely more durable. If you go without a case, wrapping it is an absolute must or it will look like crap. I started going caseless with my black one and have 3-4 tiny little nicks around edges and one tiny scratch on back- already (and I was extremely careful). My wife's white, on the otherhand, just goes in her purse and she doesn't take as good of care (although still good)- not a scratch or ding.
Just something to think about if you're buying one in the future.
Needless to say, I got a catchif case for $9 for both of us until my wrap comes in- fits perfect and is super thin. Hate covering up this beauty. :-(

 

I haven't used a case, and I've had mine since launch day--a black one--and there's not scratch, scuff, or nick in sight. Nothing. And I used it and carry it in my jeans pocket everywhere I go. I don't treat it any differently than the iPhone 4 it replaced. I'm not sure what the differs between our circumstances, but it is possible to keep it clean and undamaged without a case.

 

I had the Apple bumpers on the iPhone 4, and while some doubted its effectiveness as protection, I found the bumpers adequate for the two years I used the iPhone 4. The raised lip of the bumper meant that the back glass of the iPhone 4 never physically touched any surface it was laid on. But the bumpers' tight fit around the stainless steel antenna band meant that any microscopic dust that found its way onto the stainless steel band would be rub against the band, causing the brushed steel look to become polished. This didn't bother me because the stainless steel was unpainted; it simply changed the texture of the metal. I wouldn't call this polishing effect a "nick" or "scratch", but I realize that's just semantics.

 

The same thing happened to the plastic finish on the back of my original iPhone and the plastic back of the iPhone 3GS. Even with a soft silicone case, any dust that got in there would rub against the plastic, dulling the finish in what looked like scuff marks.

 

For this reason, I've decided not to put a case on the iPhone 5--the first time I've used an iPhone without the case. I'm convinced that, barring an accident, I can keep it nick- and scratch-free, and that a case would only guarantee scratches. If it can grind down stainless steel on the iPhone 4, it can mar the aluminum finish of the iPhone 5.

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post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner: I said (you're welcome to go back and look) "...form-fitting slide-in/-out case..."

 

In other words, one that you slip the phone into when you're walking around with it or in your pocket, or in your car, etc. One that is not a case when the phone is in use (as in right now).

 

Two pieces of advice. Dude. One, please learn to read and process information better before spouting off. Two (and more important), if you're simply carrying/throwing the phone around au naturel, not only do you need to stop whining about the resulting scratches and scuffs, but you do not count as a relevant data point for this particular issue.

That's still a case.  Who could possibly scratch their phone when all they do is pull it out of their case, talk on it, and put it back in?  It never sits on a table, countertop, pocket, cupholder, lap, etc.  There is a big difference between putting your phone in your empty pocket or leaving it on your kitchen countertop and "throwing the phone around".  I did the former, and there is a single tiny scratch on the back and two miniscule chips on the bezeling.  You go under the assumption that if someone is getting a scratch, it's because they aren't careful.  This isn't the case- period.  Unless, of course, your definition of "careful" is putting it in a case unless you're talking on it.

 

But sure- if you want to either:

A) Have a "slide-in/-out case" that you wear on your beltloop like my dad.

or B) Have a "slide-in/-out case" that you have to take the phone out of everytime it rings or you want to do anything to it

Then fine, you don't get a scratch.  That's another option.

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post #59 of 71

FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...  

Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.

 

The aluminum isn't CNC machined guys. At best it's flow formed or cast - which is a cheaper method of mass producing pieces.

 

Aluminum WILL dent, scratch, etc. Stainless steel (of the iPhone 4)... not so much. Nature of the beast.

 

 

 

 
 
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

... there is a single tiny scratch on the back and two miniscule chips on the bezeling.  

You're the one that compared the scratches on your iPhone 5 to a "beat up car," and exclaimed "dead on!" to a guy who was complaining about the phone being "scratchtastic."

 

Now you say ".....there is a single tiny scratch and two miniscule chips."

 

Which is it? Make up your mind.

post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...  

Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.

 

 
 

If it's so problematic, I am curious: why/how does Apple boldly offer free engraving with purchase? Surely, they would be running into these sorts of issues?

 

Could it simply be the case that your laser engraver is unable to provide the same quality of work, but is instead blaming it on the product?

post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You're the one that compared the scratches on your iPhone 5 to a "beat up car," and exclaimed "dead on!" to a guy who was complaining about the phone being "scratchtastic."

 

Now you say ".....there is a single tiny scratch and two miniscule chips."

 

Which is it? Make up your mind.

Very interesting Mr. "If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post

Like others have mentioned, my iPhone 4 was never in a case and it still looks perfect.  My iPhone 5 on the other hand is just a few weeks old and it has a nick in the corner already.  I really hate to think about getting case since it is such a beautiful device but I don't want it looking like hell in a few months even if I am so careful with it.
 

That's what I said "Dead on" to- was it looking bad in a few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

 Honestly mate, until you've had a black iPhone 5 don't comment on it

I also said "Dead on" to this comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I started going caseless with my black one and have 3-4 tiny little nicks around edges and one tiny scratch on back- already (and I was extremely careful). 

I actually said it in the very first post of this entire thread.  Not just "now".


Now you're just looking desperate....

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post #63 of 71

I did not expect that I would become like a sales person, but put Zagg Invisible Shield Maximum Protection on iPhone 5.  Would look shiny beautiful on the white (Not sure on the black)

post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb View Post

I did not expect that I would become like a sales person, but put Zagg Invisible Shield Maximum Protection on iPhone 5.  Would look shiny beautiful on the white (Not sure on the black)

No doubt.  A wrap keeps it gorgeous, and you don't need a case to ugly it up.  Still see the aluminum, and no scratches.

 

Here's the one I ordered- 5 star review- 585 reviews and its $3.95. Skinomi brand.  Can't compare to Zagg as it hasnt gotten to my house yet (long shipping- took like a week, so I've used the cases until then).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0092QSQEK/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

 

My 2 extremely slim cases I got (the white one is awesome as its transparent back- the black one tries to be see through but isnt).  $10.  Catchif brand (only thing bad is small logo on side of it).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009B5JYUW/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00 White

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009AC2U66/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00 Black

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post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

[...] If you really care then use a case [...]

 

That's a commonly recommended remedy, but I just don't understand the reasoning.

 

I pay hundreds of dollars for a phone with a fancy design and finish, then to keep it from looking ratty I have to cover it up so I can't see it anyway.

 

The case also defeats one of the big marketing claims by making it substantially less thin.

 

The way I deal with issues like these it to accept that it's a device I *use*, not a decorative piece of bling, and it's gonna get dinged.  My MBP is scratched to ratshit and I don't care.  It's EARNED its appearance!

post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

That's a commonly recommended remedy, but I just don't understand the reasoning.

I pay hundreds of dollars for a phone with a fancy design and finish, then to keep it from looking ratty I have to cover it up so I can't see it anyway.

The case also defeats one of the big marketing claims by making it substantially less thin.

The way I deal with issues like these it to accept that it's a device I *use*, not a decorative piece of bling, and it's gonna get dinged.  My MBP is scratched to ratshit and I don't care.  It's EARNED its appearance!

I'm right there with you when it affects usability. I bow to Seinfeld for this answer...

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post #67 of 71
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
I'm right there with you when it affects usability. I bow to Seinfeld for this answer...

 

Two of my favorite comedians using products from my favorite company, making complete sense…

 

I need to go lie down. 

Originally posted by Relic

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post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Very interesting Mr. "If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner."

 

That's what I said "Dead on" to- was it looking bad in a few months.

I also said "Dead on" to this comment.

I actually said it in the very first post of this entire thread.  Not just "now".


Now you're just looking desperate....

 

Groan..... here's what you said to the 'scratchtastic' post:

 

 

 

Utter waste of time.


Edited by anantksundaram - 10/10/12 at 7:18pm
post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Groan..... here's what you said to the 'scratchtastic' post:




Utter waste of time.

You mean the text that I bolded and then said "Again- dead on. If you don't have it... well, you just don't know. ;-)".... Could've sworn that's what I just quoted- yup. That's it. You obviously can't read. Think Buehler....

(This is where you're supposed to re-look at what you just quoted, and then say- "sorry- I must have overlooked the bolded part". But you won't. You'll further dig your hole).

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post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...  
Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.

The aluminum isn't CNC machined guys. At best it's flow formed or cast - which is a cheaper method of mass producing pieces.

Aluminum WILL dent, scratch, etc. Stainless steel (of the iPhone 4)... not so much. Nature of the beast.






 


 



And you know it's not CNC machined how? Do you work at apple?
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...  
Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.

The aluminum isn't CNC machined guys. At best it's flow formed or cast - which is a cheaper method of mass producing pieces.

Aluminum WILL dent, scratch, etc. Stainless steel (of the iPhone 4)... not so much. Nature of the beast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

And you know it's not CNC machined how? Do you work at apple?

I think a clarification is in order here. From the promo video, I think it's clear the part is CNC machined, but the question is how much. Apple doesn't make it clear whether the chassis is milled from an extruded blank like a Unibody Mac, or formed using some other process.

The metallurgical tolerances of aluminum can vary enough that you get noticeable difference in material properties from the alloys of the same type. An alloy has certain allowable ranges for different component metals, and it can give noticeably different properties on occasion. I think Apple can specify an alloy more strictly if they think they need to.
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